Life is pretty bad

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by themaster

Wow, there's a lot of false information/limitation in here.. like death being a "hellish limbo"

Just for the record and for the sake of clarity, no one here has said death is a hellish limbo.

[mej023]

BlackWigger (I love that handle)

If you are being genuine, it sounds like you are in the throes of "learned helplessness".

That is a very dangerous space to be in.

It is insidious.

You do want to feel different don't you?

There is a way out. Go Google "learned helplessness".

[One Armed man]

The second after you pulled the trigger, the phone rang and there was some one on the other end of the line who had a real solution that would have altered your life in a postive way, forever.

[Plays With Life]

That's what you'd call ironic.

[BlackWigger]

Originally Posted by One Armed man

The second after you pulled the trigger, the phone rang and there was some one on the other end of the line who had a real solution that would have altered your life in a postive way, forever.

I guess it wouldn't really matter anymore.

Damn, maybe if I was socially normal all of this wouldn't be happening. Actually it would be not it wouldn't be as bad.

[lifetimelearner]

what does it mean to be 'socially' normal ?

[BlackWigger]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

what does it mean to be 'socially' normal ?

Well accepted and/or popular among my peers, also being able to talk to people without fearing anything.

[Parthon]

Ha! And then what?

You'd be well accepted, popular, with no anxiety, and still unhappy and suicidal.

Perhaps you could have a normal job, with normal, people, a normal wife with normal kids, normal car, house and TV set, and still be unhappy and suicidal. In fact, maybe even more so.

Bliss Sage was right though, there are only three paths: Die, do nothing, improve. If you don't kill yourself, then you have a choice between living with what you have for the next 20-30 years, or finding happiness within and improving your life. That's it.

You don't feel like it. You don't have the willpower. You don't have the inclination, belief, or desire. But that doesn't change the reality, that the only two paths out of your desolation at the moment are death and growth. I'm not even sure if death is the way out either, because if there is an afterlife, then whoever you are will persist, and probably the misery too.

If growth is the only path, then what's the first step for you? What could you do today that would take you a tiny bit forward, a little bit away from here?

[BlackWigger]

Originally Posted by Parthon

Ha! And then what?

You'd be well accepted, popular, with no anxiety, and still unhappy and suicidal.

Perhaps you could have a normal job, with normal, people, a normal wife with normal kids, normal car, house and TV set, and still be unhappy and suicidal. In fact, maybe even more so.

Bliss Sage was right though, there are only three paths: Die, do nothing, improve. If you don't kill yourself, then you have a choice between living with what you have for the next 20-30 years, or finding happiness within and improving your life. That's it.

You don't feel like it. You don't have the willpower. You don't have the inclination, belief, or desire. But that doesn't change the reality, that the only two paths out of your desolation at the moment are death and growth. I'm not even sure if death is the way out either, because if there is an afterlife, then whoever you are will persist, and probably the misery too.

If growth is the only path, then what's the first step for you? What could you do today that would take you a tiny bit forward, a little bit away from here?

Dunno, I think I would ignore some things more often than not if I was more socially accepted and/or popular.

I was reading about the ego and getting rid of it. But it saddened me that I can't see the point of life without the ego. It's just being an empty shell... it sucks. Made everything even more futile.

With the ego at least you have a distraction and can have some goals, like becoming better than others.

[lifetimelearner]

all of us want to be accepted
it's the human in us


but if you let go of the anxiety of wanting to be socially popular and find your true self there will be people attracted to that

and I don't necessarily mean physical attraction I mean people that enjoy your personality will want to be around you

[Asten]

I didn't read all of this, but I can tell one thing from what I have read: you do want a solution. At first I expected this post to be a troll post, but it really looks like you're serious about desiring something different for yourself, be that through suicide or through life changes.

Let me first say: you are allowed to feel suicidal and express it and that's what you've been doing. It's not a "stupid" feeling; it's a valid feeling we experience when we see no other way out. It doesn't mean we should act on it though. Valid and healthy are not mutually exclusive. Feeling suicidal is a sign something needs to change.

You're not a coward for not acting on it either. It just means you haven't actually given up--if you had, you wouldn't be posting here. You would be dead.

Don't let yourself get to that point.

The way you talk reminds me of a friend of mine who has been struggling with a lot of the same issues.

See, humans are sometimes too intelligent. Combine our intelligence with an instinctual drive to look for trouble before it hits and the fact we learn by punishment and rewards, and there's a recipe for a lot of realizations about the world that don't do us much good.

If you realize nothing else in your life, realize: YOU are SOLELY responsible for what meaning your life has and the happiness you acquire through that meaning. NO ONE will ever be able to help you unless you help yourself.

The universe will remain pointless. Emotions will remain nothing but chemical responses to stimuli. Your existence will be that of a highly-complex organic robot programmed by your past experiences and biological reactions.

Your consciousness will mean nothing. The things around you will be nothing but molecules bound by physical forces. Even the death you think you desire will be meaningless, because the death of a meaningless existence composed of nuclear particles and forces is really just cutting some neural connections that cause what we call consciousness and keep the robotic system functioning.

Humans are brilliant creatures in that they have the ability to give meaning to things that have no meaning at all. They express that through their life views, their creations, and their interactions. They also have the ability to shift their perspective of the world, either at will or with persistence.

You don't have to be spiritual to give meaning to your existence or the existence of the things around you. I'm certainly not. It's just a matter of accepting nature has created us with intelligence and consciousness, meaningless or not. We have it. We're limited beings (although some would argue that to be untrue); accept that and it'll go a long way toward accepting yourself.

It sounds like your social anxiety and concern for others' opinions is a big part of your problem. I've been struggling with this since I was a kid, so I get it (I've also dealt with being suicidal and feeling like life is pointless and all of that).

You said at one point that essentially dealing with your self-esteem is less important than dealing with your fear of others' opinions.

They're the same thing. If you learn to accept yourself, ego and flaws and limits of your humanity and all; you won't have to fear the opinion of other people. The more self-esteem you build, the less anxiety you will feel. Other humans won't trigger the feeling of fear, because you won't have weaknesses in your self-esteem for them to exploit.

Instead of fearing their opinions, you'll learn to value them--to respect the person for them (even when you disagree; this has to do with establishing healthy boundaries) and to look for ways to improve yourself.

It takes the win-lose factor out of interacting with other people and turns it into experiences of growth and affirmation. However, that--like I'll repeat over and over--takes time. We're human. We NEED validation for our emotions as we learn to stand on our personal foundation instead of others. That's where places like this forum come in.

I'm sure the way I talk it sounds like fluffy bunnies and rainbows and cute, annoying puppies, but it's not all about that. When you start from the bottom of the barrel, you have to drag yourself through the s*** you've piled on top of yourself first.

It's trial-and-error, it's looking critically at yourself, it's challenging your most firmly held believes (like the fact that your ego needs to be gotten rid or the belief that death is the only way to deal with this).

Now on the note of your ego--ego is not an inherently bad thing. It doesn't need to be disposed of. Instead, we have to work with it--find out how we want to live, who we want to be, and not let the negative side of the ego get in the way of that vision.

You want to be recognized--good! You should be recognized for who you are! We all should. That's the healthy part of the ego: the part that wants us to be seen for us, real and alive.

The unhealthy part is the part that says we're inherently better or somehow entitled to greater things than other human beings. We're not. Every human is capable of growth and bettering themselves. Whether they do it or not is another matter.

That also said--it's okay to feel better than someone because of your accomplishments or who you are. It's a natural part of our competitive side. Over time though, we should shed these feelings as our self-esteem grows enough to not need them. It's healthier to feel appreciation for people's potential and the fact that we all try the best we can at any given moment. That takes time though.

Health doesn't reach us in a night; it's a lifelong learning process. One you are entirely responsible for.

The world can give you ideas, but you have to do the work. As someone already said, if you look to the world for solutions, you'll find nothing. If you look to yourself, your freedom is limitless.

That's the beauty about being human.

I hope you find the will to discover yourself and find a way to be in-line with your true, healthy desires. You deserve a satisfying life the way we all do. You deserve to be happy with who you are and excited with the progress you're making on your inevitable flaws.

Don't give up on this meaningless universe; you have the power to make it into something.


EDIT: Lengthy isn't it? I should blog or something.

[Plays With Life]

Nice post, Asten.

I think the desire for death can be viewed in a positive light, too:

You're desiring the death of the person you are now, and the birth of a new person. A person who's more in line with what you really want, who's able to have those things, and who doesn't have the same cage you have right now. It's like you're saying: I don't want to live (like this) anymore. It's really a great place to be.

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

You're desiring the death of the person you are now, and the birth of a new person. A person who's more in line with what you really want, who's able to have those things, and who doesn't have the same cage you have right now. It's like you're saying: I don't want to live (like this) anymore. It's really a great place to be.

exactly

[BlackWigger]

Damn... the latest happening has made me even more depressed than earlier.
The funny thing is it's nothing related to the meaning of life. It's basically a teenage problem :/

By that I mean... well, I had my prom the other day. Even while drunk I wasn't really doing well, didn't dance at all, didn't socialize as much as I thought I would while drunk... and the biggest problem, I got very depressed about the way my cousin spends her time. There I was, standing at the prom and watching all these people have fun, while I barely had any desire to come and join them. I'm unsure whether this is due to me being insecure or just so introverted. At the same time, my cousin is pretty outgoing and extroverted, and I think I felt some kind of unbearable jealousy as to how she spends her time the same way these people (and most people) do. Especially seeing some of my classmates have loads of fun dancing with their dates.

I mean, I could have been doing all of that with her if I was brave enough to invite her again (I did it before and she said yes, but then I said I was kidding and already had a date...which was a lie). I was imagining her having all that fun with me and not someone else.

It's also weird how the realization I had that night would mean that we aren't really compatible, but I still wanted her. And I don't mean just physically... I think I love her in a way. Not the most serious way since we weren't in a relationship, but I harbor some pretty strong feelings for her.

Sigh, it's quite depressing. It feels as if I'm going backwards and not improving myself at all. I knew that being socially accepted or not didn't really matter (at least rationally I knew this), but my need to be more interesting in the eyes of my cousin has pulled me back and here I was, being so depressed over not being an outgoing and interesting person. Back to square 1 - it's how my depression started 4 years ago or so.

When I got home, I cried so much. I thought I was done for... the only thing which had some sort of meaning in my life was almost gone - the ability to pursue a relationship with her.

Even if I eliminated my cousin out of the picture, it seems the want to be accepted still draws me in. I was drunk and still felt some kind of regret for not being better with some dudes from my class - the ones I didn't talk to much at all during all these years, but whom I still considered decent people.

I've also thought about how living a life without the ego seems pretty unbearable... but this post is long enough already, and prolly boring to most people. Thanks to anyone who reads it and tries to understand me.

[Asten]

As I said before, you don't need to live life without an ego. You just need to develop a healthy one. The ego in the way you talk about it is our source of power--the part that lets us feel good about ourselves and get what we want out of life.

But when we have an unhealthy ego, we expect more from other people (or the universe in general) and less from ourselves.

When I got home, I cried so much. I thought I was done for... the only thing which had some sort of meaning in my life was almost gone - the ability to pursue a relationship with her.

This, right here, is a problem.

Don't ever live for another person or for the purpose of being with another person. Live for yourself, simply to live and create a life you're happy with.

The biggest injustice you can ever do to yourself is putting your purpose and meaning into another human being.

In fact, it's also a great injustice to that human being. Talk about pressure.

You can't be your own person if your life is founded upon someone else. That's co-dependence. It's rampant in our society too--we're taught to think it's normal and healthy to live for other people and to confuse them for pieces of ourselves.

It's not. It's unhealthy for both parties.

So you've broken it down: you want to be an interesting and outgoing person.

Don't do that for her or the people around you. Do it for you. If you do it for her and they or she disappears from your life, you're left with nothing. This is the reason it's unhealthy to put our purpose into other human beings.

So figure out how to do that. Find models. Find out what people you find interesting are doing that you aren't. What makes a person interesting to you? What can you take about those traits and apply to yourself?

Learning to be outgoing is about building up your self-esteem and not caring about people's opinions and judgments because you're confident in your own being. That doesn't mean being inconsiderate or totally dismissing them though. There's a balance.

[Parthon]

Living without the ego is freaking AWESOME.

Considering it's the source of pain, unease, discomfort, disconnection, the feeling of being alone and almost all the suffering and misery you can think of, it's great to be free of all that.

I thought you were at least 25 though. You are far more mature and aware than most people your age. Don't worry though, the rules vastly change when you get out of high school, and your values and character has far more impact in the real world. High school is a joke compared to the real world, it really is.

[BlackWigger]

Originally Posted by Parthon

Living without the ego is freaking AWESOME.

Considering it's the source of pain, unease, discomfort, disconnection, the feeling of being alone and almost all the suffering and misery you can think of, it's great to be free of all that.

Yeah, but you get some positive feelings too. It balances itself out for most people. That's why I can't see why live life without the ego.

Originally Posted by Parthon

I thought you were at least 25 though. You are far more mature and aware than most people your age. Don't worry though, the rules vastly change when you get out of high school, and your values and character has far more impact in the real world. High school is a joke compared to the real world, it really is.

That's what I thought when I was entering high school. Seriously, if I couldn't handle high school, I'll be even worse off in college. Especially if you knew what kind of high school I went to - it's not like the regular US ones, it was like an engineering school and almost everyone was a guy and, in my class, smarter than most people. (it was an IT and electronics course basically)

Originally Posted by Asten

This, right here, is a problem.

Don't ever live for another person or for the purpose of being with another person. Live for yourself, simply to live and create a life you're happy with.

The biggest injustice you can ever do to yourself is putting your purpose and meaning into another human being.

In fact, it's also a great injustice to that human being. Talk about pressure.

You can't be your own person if your life is founded upon someone else. That's co-dependence. It's rampant in our society too--we're taught to think it's normal and healthy to live for other people and to confuse them for pieces of ourselves.

It's not. It's unhealthy for both parties.

You're probably right... but I can't let go. Especially since there's really no other meaning in life.

Originally Posted by Asten

So you've broken it down: you want to be an interesting and outgoing person.

Don't do that for her or the people around you. Do it for you. If you do it for her and they or she disappears from your life, you're left with nothing. This is the reason it's unhealthy to put our purpose into other human beings.

So figure out how to do that. Find models. Find out what people you find interesting are doing that you aren't. What makes a person interesting to you? What can you take about those traits and apply to yourself?

Learning to be outgoing is about building up your self-esteem and not caring about people's opinions and judgments because you're confident in your own being. That doesn't mean being inconsiderate or totally dismissing them though. There's a balance.

See that's the problem... I'm not sure why I want that. I thought that without the ego, I wouldn't want it as badly. But I would still like to have social skills, you need them to live life imo. And to advance, too. I know that it doesn't really mean much in the end, but if I ever got a purpose in life, it would be improving.

[Parthon]

Originally Posted by BlackWigger

Yeah, but you get some positive feelings too. It balances itself out for most people. That's why I can't see why live life without the ego.

There are definately positive feelings, things like possession, relief, desire, fleeting satisfaction, and similar. They are rarely good, and never last long, and even while you are having the feelings, there's the pain of knowing they won't last long. Happiness, joy, peace and contentment are barely felt in the ego, as temporary echos of the real thing at best. Soon they fade and there's emptiness left.

Behind the ego are the deeper feelings of love, peace, joy and contentment. They are real and vast, but they need to be earnt. Disolving the ego is not the end of emotion, but barely the first step in real freedom when it comes to life and emotions.

That's what I thought when I was entering high school. Seriously, if I couldn't handle high school, I'll be even worse off in college. Especially if you knew what kind of high school I went to - it's not like the regular US ones, it was like an engineering school and almost everyone was a guy and, in my class, smarter than most people. (it was an IT and electronics course basically)

College is harder, in terms of classwork and requiring good study habits, but otherwise it's a breeze. No set periods. No having to socialise with people you don't like. No set opening and closing times. Far less classes, but more work. It's fantastic.

See that's the problem... I'm not sure why I want that. I thought that without the ego, I wouldn't want it as badly. But I would still like to have social skills, you need them to live life imo. And to advance, too. I know that it doesn't really mean much in the end, but if I ever got a purpose in life, it would be improving.

Without the ego, the pain of wanting it and not having it would be gone. You'd still be free to develop social skills, but the suffering would be missing.

[BlackWigger]

Originally Posted by Parthon

There are definately positive feelings, things like possession, relief, desire, fleeting satisfaction, and similar. They are rarely good, and never last long, and even while you are having the feelings, there's the pain of knowing they won't last long. Happiness, joy, peace and contentment are barely felt in the ego, as temporary echos of the real thing at best. Soon they fade and there's emptiness left.

What do you mean they are rarely good ?

Originally Posted by Parthon

Behind the ego are the deeper feelings of love, peace, joy and contentment. They are real and vast, but they need to be earnt. Disolving the ego is not the end of emotion, but barely the first step in real freedom when it comes to life and emotions.

What follows after that step ? Also, I didn't see you telling how to get rid of the ego :P
I've found that it isn't as simple as recognizing it and ignoring it wherever it tries to interfere with your life... simply because it keeps coming back, and one time you will give in or you'll be deceived by it.

Originally Posted by Parthon

College is harder, in terms of classwork and requiring good study habits, but otherwise it's a breeze. No set periods. No having to socialise with people you don't like. No set opening and closing times. Far less classes, but more work. It's fantastic.

Oh well... I ain't sure about avoiding people even more. Maybe I should become more outgoing...

Originally Posted by Parthon

Without the ego, the pain of wanting it and not having it would be gone. You'd still be free to develop social skills, but the suffering would be missing.

Ya, but I'd lose the motivation to develop them. Or maybe... if I developed my social skills, I'd find new joy in using them. Not really sure though.

[Parthon]

Originally Posted by BlackWigger

What do you mean they are rarely good ?

Take desire for example. Desire is sometimes a good emotion, especially when used in the right way. The primal desire of passion is great. When used by the Ego though, it becomes warped, and dangerous. That's how you end up with crimes such as rape, empassioned murder and similar. People's egoic desires override their common sense and they do awful things.

It's good to have positive emotions, but the ego often warps and turns them into something nasty or uses them for it's own gain. That's what I mean by egoic emotions are rarely good.

What follows after that step ? Also, I didn't see you telling how to get rid of the ego :P
I've found that it isn't as simple as recognizing it and ignoring it wherever it tries to interfere with your life... simply because it keeps coming back, and one time you will give in or you'll be deceived by it.

Because getting rid of the ego is a long process of mastery, but very, very worth it. It keeps coming back, but each time it's a tiny little bit less strong. You will be deceived by it, but you are already being deceived by it, you will just be noticing it more. And it doesn't so much intefere with your life as it *IS* your life.

The ego comes in many forms. There's your thoughts and emotions, the "voice in the head" so to speak. There's the pain-body, as recognised by Eckhart Tolle, which is the ego's desire for drama, pain and suffering. It's the way the ego continues to live. There's pride. There's the ego disconnecting you from others and making you feel separate. And there's the ego losing itself and you in the past or future, because the present moment is lethal to it.

Meditation is a great way to train yourself to recognise and overcome the ego, as well as being present in the current moment. Being aware of your thoughts and emotions is the other.

The best book I've found for recognising all the various forms of the ego and how to disolve them is Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth.

Oh well... I ain't sure about avoiding people even more. Maybe I should become more outgoing...

Being outgoing isn't that neccessary. Being nice and friendly is though. When you can spend less time around people you don't like, you suddenly find many people that you do like. In large colleges there are far more people of your age that go there, and you are way more likely to find people you actually enjoy the company of and have the same interests with. I was a loner in high school, and it wasn't until I got to college/uni that I really made a group of friends that I enjoy. I've been friends with them for almost 10 years now.

Ya, but I'd lose the motivation to develop them. Or maybe... if I developed my social skills, I'd find new joy in using them. Not really sure though.

You'd lose the fear of not being able to develop them, but you'd keep the motivation. You'd recognise the impact and know what benefits you would get. Then you would develop your skills, and really enjoy using them.

[Asten]

You're probably right... but I can't let go. Especially since there's really no other meaning in life.

Are you sure about that though? Think about it--you chose to make that a meaning for you life. What's stopping you from choosing to make something else the meaning?

I think it's not exactly about "choice" though. I think it's about "choosing" the purpose(s) that gives us the greatest satisfaction.

He's making me re-think my thoughts on ego. I suppose my thoughts about a healthy ego could be thought of as destroying it entirely. Though I prefer not to use the word "destroy." I like the idea of transformation, as I tend to think nothing in us is ever destroyed, only hidden or changed into a healthier form.

I hated high school. Every bloody moment of it. I was anti-social and miserable the entire time. It was worse than middle-school.

Now I'm 20, and I've been going to a community college on and off for two years. I like it a LOT better. There's a huge variety of people (instead of the same people every class, every year, who therefore have the same "cliques"); and you have more opportunities to meet people with similar interests via clubs and classes you take.

I don't do much socializing on campus yet, but I've made 3 friends at my college this year (compare this to losing friends in high school, though I have a few that I kept). One through a club, two from classes; and two of those friends are going to eventually be close friends, I think.

People are there with a goal, not forced to be there. The focus is on the work, not fashion and socialization.

But, it depends on the school I suspect. I've only been to one. I also think there's probably a big difference between a community college and a university. In a university I'd guess you're more likely to get people moving in at a certain age (right out of high school) and sticking with people of their year and degree. In a community college everyone is all over the place.

Don't despair about college. It's NOT high school, thank god. Learn what you'd love to in college (find what drives and inspires you, and you'll enjoy it a lot more) and find a school that feels comfortable.

[Holistic Star]

Personally I have no intention of destroying my ego! We're great friends and hope to stay that way.

The ego is there for a reason. Yes it may need to be tamed a little, but destroyed? No.

There's enough time in the afterlife to live without it, so while I'm here on Earth I'm going to learn to live with it and enjoy the experience in all its messy glory

[Asten]

I tend to feel the same way.

[BlackWigger]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Personally I have no intention of destroying my ego! We're great friends and hope to stay that way.

The ego is there for a reason. Yes it may need to be tamed a little, but destroyed? No.

There's enough time in the afterlife to live without it, so while I'm here on Earth I'm going to learn to live with it and enjoy the experience in all its messy glory

Which reason ? Why are you just going to tame it ?

How are you going to tame it ? What do you want to use it for ?

Originally Posted by Asten

I hated high school. Every bloody moment of it. I was anti-social and miserable the entire time. It was worse than middle-school.

Was it because you werent comfortable with yourself and your social skills, or something else ?

Originally Posted by Parthon

Because getting rid of the ego is a long process of mastery, but very, very worth it. It keeps coming back, but each time it's a tiny little bit less strong. You will be deceived by it, but you are already being deceived by it, you will just be noticing it more. And it doesn't so much intefere with your life as it *IS* your life.

I don't know... it seems it's not really weakening at all. Just draining my willpower, and when I'm out of willpower, I'll have to submit.

Originally Posted by Parthon

The best book I've found for recognising all the various forms of the ego and how to disolve them is Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth.

Yeah I've heard that book mentioned alot, I should probably read it :P

Originally Posted by Parthon

Being outgoing isn't that neccessary. Being nice and friendly is though.

Isn't that the same thing ?

Originally Posted by Parthon

You'd lose the fear of not being able to develop them, but you'd keep the motivation. You'd recognise the impact and know what benefits you would get. Then you would develop your skills, and really enjoy using them.

Well that's what I fear won't happen. It seems as if the motivation is ego-driven now. Then again, I guess I wouldn't care if I really got rid of the ego... but I'm not sure if that would be healthy.

[Asten]

Was it because you werent comfortable with yourself and your social skills, or something else ?

Both. I've always been shy, anxious, and awkward in social situations (I have some pretty severe social anxiety problems lol). Then I hit highschool, and a lot of internal conflict over myself and my identity started up. Add that to the basic teenage social pressures, and it was a bad combination. I think it is for a lot of people.

I still have internal conflict and I still am anxious and awkward, but I find that the college environment is friendlier toward it. It's easier for me to work on getting past it here, than if I was back in highschool right now. There's a higher level of maturity, and you're less likely to run into the same people all the time, which takes off the pressure to not mess up somewhat.

[Edo]

I used to be depressed like you,
untill I figured something out.

Go outside and get the best icecream you can find.
And I mean, really, eat the icecream; enjoy it.
All it takes is the realization that life is
a series of very good icecreams.
Why throw away such a great thing?
Remember that nothing else matters,
drop all the baggage your carrying,
the taste of icecream is enough.

[Plays With Life]

The purpose of life? Ice Cream! I like it.

[BlackWigger]

Meh... I've been watching the Blueprint decoded videos, where you're explained how in social situations, the environment shouldn't affect you and that energy should come from within you. I tried some stuff out when I was out for a bit, but it wasn't much different. Now you can say I only tried it once, but I tried 'not caring' before too, and it just doesn't do it... either I'm doing something wrong or my anxiety and approval seeking is so deeply wired in there's no way I'm going to fix it.

It was nice thinking how I could be a self confident dude though... living in the moment and not stiffled by the ego or other people's opinions (which should, ironically, make other people enjoy my presence more).

In the meantime I've been trying to find a way to get chloroform. Can you buy it in pharmacies in the States ?

[Plays With Life]

I've had some success with Bach Flower Remedies for some things, and I know there are some specifically for what you're talking about. Why not give em a try? They're probably cheaper than chloroform.

[BlackWigger]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

I've had some success with Bach Flower Remedies for some things, and I know there are some specifically for what you're talking about. Why not give em a try? They're probably cheaper than chloroform.

Cuz they won't kill me.