Dysthymia - Trying to cope.

[Safyreking]

Hi everyone. My name is James. In two days I'll be living in a homeless shelter. I'm not an alcoholic, i'm not a drug addict, I have a problem far worse those things... chronic depression.

I'm scared half to death. For 20+ years feelings of excitement and happiness were few and fleeting. My relationship with my parents had always been troubled. My romantic relationships have never been long lasting, i've either been too nice or not nice enough it seems, always a problem. And what few friends I still have simply don't have the means or the patience to help. I've been called mildly eccentric to outright strange in the last few years. My view on the world is held in place by a very cold logic. I'm not without heart, and while from time to time I witness some good in the world, a majority of the time I'm often disappointed in humanity's behavior as a whole. So many things about our culture and the way we're programmed to think about things makes no sense and continues to further perpetuate a cycle of damaging behavior.

Every person I've ever known has lied to me and let me down. I try to respect other people's beliefs and be open minded but I don't get the same in return. I understand doing things to preserve one's own survival but the idea of living for the rest of my life feeling alone or misunderstood is an unnerving one. I'm sick of people lying to me, parents, family, friends, ex's, employers... of being used.

All these things has twisted me into a person who's emotionally weak when it comes to handling stress and anxiety. Every major 'bad' emotional event in the past 8 years is immediately followed by something else equally as bad because I'm a wreck... I stop caring, I become extremely isolated and the pain feels so intense that its paralyzing to my will and ability to concentrate or even sleep. My short term memory is horrible anymore and I struggle to manage any sort of energy or hope that a better life exists down the road. Its become frustrating to those around me because they don't understand.

I've always been cited for being intelligent, a test years ago said I had an IQ of 140. IQ means nothing. And ignorance is truly bliss. Why? Because the more you understand about the world around you, the more you realize scope of problems and the fact that were so entrenched in them thanks to decades of flawed thinking that what it takes to solve said problems is almost beyond imagining. Some once said that one person can make a difference but a person does still need certain essentials to survive and when you're so hung up and just trying to survive despite the maladjusted demeanor of your peers and employers, the initial value of trying to make that difference plummets drastically.

This same depression is damaging to what intelligence I do have and I've tried to combat it. I try not to let it control my thoughts and emotions, sometimes I'm successful but when your stress is unending it almost seems futile to even try. Meds sometimes work but with a history of bad luck or bad timing just when I feel its ok to come off them my depression is sent right back into remission because of something or someone. And when you're unemployed without benefits two prescriptions for antidepressants is insanely expensive.

Is there anyone else out there is shares this pain? Can anyone tell me of something profound enough to give me some sort of hope that this existence wont be a miserable one?

[magi13]

pain and failure is the mother of experience and knowledge. If you can overcome this you'll be stronger. in my case i use those feelings as a fuel to work harder, better and move forward.

of course this is easier said than done. it's a choice that you'll have to make if you want to live and die. ^^, but i firmly believe if you die, you'll just disappear into nothing and return to the earth as a part of this beautiful world or reality.

If you choose to live, you can experience more pain and happiness.

[Angela Leeds]

Safyre, what's one thing that, all things being equal, you enjoy doing? It might be something you haven't done for awhile, but think hard about it. Might be something you've done as an adult, or maybe when you were much younger. But it's something you really enjoyed getting absorbed in, even if you never really pursued it much.

Could be cooking, working with numbers, organizing things, collecting something, handling a bank account...everybody has something, at least one thing. It might not be obvious at first, but I'm sure with enough nostalgic musing, you'll think of something. And whatever it is, it points to a good beginning point to help you regain some good feelings about your life.

The good thing from your vantage point is...you can only go up from here.

You could look at this moment as a way of clearing slate, starting from scratch to build something utterly new in your life. This is my suggestion:

Imagine yourself doing this thing that has brought you some enjoyment in the past, and really take the time to feel the good feelings you felt doing it. Then say out loud, "I need a job, and there's a job that needs me, and it involves this thing in some way." Repeat some version of that sentiment to yourself until you start to connect with more good feelings, and keep using it as a way to guide your mind and feelings to greater confidence that there is a perfect position for you, and that it involves doing something you enjoy.

Then go about seeking the job out...use every channel and all supports available to you. Repeatedly throughout each day, verbalize that you know there's the perfect position, just for you.

It will find you. Go with what comes to you serendipitously, even if it doesn't make sense on the surface. Go with whatever comes to you easily, and with the best feelings.

This may all seem like a small thing to you, even silly or trite, but in fact it's a way to tap into an experience that life is *good*, that it responds to you, that there are forces all around you that listen to you and will lead you toward your happiness.

And once you tap into it in a small way, you can begin building on it from there.

Does that make sense? I know it's not always easy$ but if you ask the invisible Universe for help, and do a little bit to have and hold some faith in it, you may be surprised what can come serendipitously your way when you're in dire need.

One of the things that has always given me courage & comfort when I am in dire straits is "Be thankful for help unknown, already on the way."

Course...you gotta invite & receive that help in.

Have courage...there are good things worth believing in. *hug*

[Safyreking]

I appreciate the thought out response and I'll just touch briefly on some of the things you mention.

Safyre, what's one thing that, all things being equal, you enjoy doing? It might be something you haven't done for awhile, but think hard about it. Might be something you've done as an adult, or maybe when you were much younger. But it's something you really enjoyed getting absorbed in, even if you never really pursued it much.

Could be cooking, working with numbers, organizing things, collecting something, handling a bank account...everybody has something, at least one thing. It might not be obvious at first, but I'm sure with enough nostalgic musing, you'll think of something. And whatever it is, it points to a good beginning point to help you regain some good feelings about your life.

Well for one I enjoy learning. I've always like to read non fiction books and just absorb the information contained within. For the label "intellectual" i am the real mccoy. Problem is that you need crazy amounts of money to be recognized as being knowledgeable anymore it seems.

The good thing from your vantage point is...you can only go up from here.

This is one thing I've been struggling with. Unfortunately while that statement may ring true in an ideal world the sad fact is that the further down you go (especially during times like these) it becomes increasingly difficult to make any sort of progress due to society placing a stigma on those at the bottom usually to the tune of "damaged goods" IE: From an employers perspective someone who lives in a house vs. a homeless shelter is viewed as having more stability or reliability. This is mainly because so many people adopt the idea that if you do what you're suppose to do you wont get in that position... even though clearly its not true and its flawed thinking. If you're life appears on your application as being unstable even though you were honest about the fact it was that was due to an extreme depression... simply saying "depression" throws up a red flag. And most of the time you don't even get the chance to explain anything.

You could look at this moment as a way of clearing slate, starting from scratch to build something utterly new in your life. This is my suggestion:

Imagine yourself doing this thing that has brought you some enjoyment in the past, and really take the time to feel the good feelings you felt doing it. Then say out loud, "I need a job, and there's a job that needs me, and it involves this thing in some way." Repeat some version of that sentiment to yourself until you start to connect with more good feelings, and keep using it as a way to guide your mind and feelings to greater confidence that there is a perfect position for you, and that it involves doing something you enjoy.

Then go about seeking the job out...use every channel and all supports available to you. Repeatedly throughout each day, verbalize that you know there's the perfect position, just for you.

It will find you. Go with what comes to you serendipitously, even if it doesn't make sense on the surface. Go with whatever comes to you easily, and with the best feelings.

This may all seem like a small thing to you, even silly or trite, but in fact it's a way to tap into an experience that life is *good*, that it responds to you, that there are forces all around you that listen to you and will lead you toward your happiness.

And once you tap into it in a small way, you can begin building on it from there.

Does that make sense? I know it's not always easy$ but if you ask the invisible Universe for help, and do a little bit to have and hold some faith in it, you may be surprised what can come serendipitously your way when you're in dire need.

Your words speak of something I continuously do but there's this thing called tuition I can't seem to get around, argh... unfortunately you can't sell faith... well i guess i could if i was a televangelist. The jobs that would be perfect for me (IE: Doctor specializing in stress and anxiety disorders are so unbelievably out of my reach that devoting time to further that goal becomes questionable when I'm struggling merely to find a place to eat and to sleep.

One of the things that has always given me courage & comfort when I am in dire straits is "Be thankful for help unknown, already on the way."

Course...you gotta invite & receive that help in.

Have courage...there are good things worth believing in. *hug*

Imma try.

[magi13]

"Be thankful for help unknown, already on the way."

^^, This'll pull you through a lot of hard challenges that you'll meet in life.

Write a journal.

Title it, Little things I'm thankful for. (concentrate on the positive one's for now)

Or you can do it my way. I use the system of loci as a tool for motivation (thanks to a previous poster who gave this idea).

Look at the things around you and give them a symbol or meaning that is positive. Every time you see that object and those around it, you'll be motivated.

[Andrew Brunelle]

From the right perspective, it is safe to say that we live in a satanic hell world. Civilization is going to hell in a handbasket and things are only going to get more unsustainable as time goes on. Depression is natural in such a world. A world where people only care about themselves and will sell you out for even a small sum of money.

But it doesn't help to keep thinking like this. If you want a new world, start creating one. Help to make the kind of world you would feel good about living in. Become the change you want to see in the world.

[magi13]

It's unfair that we blame this on the satanists alone. ^^ everyone has a part on this.

Reference: Movie Religulous

"where religion itself is the one at fault."

Okay it's an interesting movie, although not everyone will agree with me here.

@Andrew you should explain more how to create this new world, it'd be insightful and informative.

[Angela Leeds]

You're right, it isn't easy to achieve lift-off when you're at the bottom. I've been there and I know the gravitational pull it has, and how people perceive someone in that state as a "loser"...and how "the system" has so many built-in ways to perpetuate the sitation. I was a single mom living in abject poverty for many years, and it mystified me how people could get their lives to work, while I felt like what I affectionately called "a bottom-feeder" at the time. . And like you, I was very smart, so it seemed like such a waste. And like you, I had no degree or training (I'm just inferring that from what you've said...)

*However*...when you really want something, and you have a really good reason for making it happen, there's a lot of power in that because it keeps you focused and determined, like a long burning fuse that eventually ignites the force needed for lift-off.

Also, whether you're formally educated or not, there is simply never, *ever* any substitute for loving what you're doing, for genuinely focusing on doing a good job, or for knowing you really do have something of value to offer. That's why I've recommended starting with something you really love and seeing what you can develop with it.

Here's another piece to keep in mind...you don't need to mention "depression" or "dysthemia" to any prospective employer. It's none of their business...their business is that you do your job. The rest is personal, and your own journey to work on. Present yourself as someone who wants the job, can do it, and will be as positive while on the clock as you can.

How are you at organizing ideas and things so they're maximally useful? Someone with your rapid-learning ability can translate that into "systems" jobs...like software programming, or even starting out in an office making things more efficient, as a general all-around assistant. The cool thing about being in your position is that there are governemt-funded programs you could get into that would pay for your training...for your books, for all kinds of things.

My reccommendation is to begin "working" the system like crazy. And no matter how people treat you within the bureaucracy that delivers these programs, make it your #1 edict to be friendly, eager, and enthusiastic. People will start coming out of the woodwork to help you. Because their own lives are dreary and hopeless, and if they see you striving with hope and determination to better your own condition, you'll touch something in any of them who aren't dead in their soul yet. They'll want to help you get to the next level!

Go watch that youtube video "Validation".

[The David]

Originally Posted by Safyreking

And when you're unemployed without benefits two prescriptions for antidepressants is insanely expensive.

I get 90 days of generic Zoloft for $15.99 at Rite-Aid. If you're in a homeless shelter even 15 bucks is a lot, I guess, but if you think an SSRI could help you it is definitely a risk worth taking at this point.

Is there anyone else out there is shares this pain? Can anyone tell me of something profound enough to give me some sort of hope that this existence wont be a miserable one?

Well, obviously I share some of it or I wouldn't be taking Zoloft. I'm not really that profound, and I doubt that profundity is what you need at this point. You're depressed. Depression doesn't mean the world or your life sucks. Depression just means that you can't respond positively to the world around you. This could be because of physical problems, or personality, or really bad thought patterns, or any number of things. You could be just as happy or just as depressed in a homeless shelter as you could be in a middle class suburban
paradise.

This advice isn't supposed to make you feel better. If it took that little to make you feel better, you wouldn't be where you are. But if you're going to improve your circumstance and your stormy emotional processes, you need to start by understanding the difference between the two.

I'm not downplaying your problems, of course. Being unemployed and homeless in this economy would be terrifying. I'm a dependent college student and I still worry about making it in the world. I'm just saying these things because no one else has so far.

[Safyreking]

Originally Posted by magi13

"Be thankful for help unknown, already on the way."

^^, This'll pull you through a lot of hard challenges that you'll meet in life.

Write a journal.

Title it, Little things I'm thankful for. (concentrate on the positive one's for now)

Or you can do it my way. I use the system of loci as a tool for motivation (thanks to a previous poster who gave this idea).

Look at the things around you and give them a symbol or meaning that is positive. Every time you see that object and those around it, you'll be motivated.

I understand the logic behind it and I try to find the little positive things in life but my overly logical mind has the horrible habit of... "hey, I know that's nice and shiny and wonderful, BUT THE REST OF YOUR LIFE IS A WRECK"... and then everything that constitutes why its a wreck landslides over the top of the nice lil shiny pleasant thing and yeah... doesn't help when bad stuff happens not day after day or even month after month but years consecutively.

I mean how much **** could you take before your brain just went in meltdown mode? I've been stressed out since i was 2 since my parents got divorced. 2 Decades of none stop BS has culminated to the point where my life is a disaster and i'm sorry but its incredibly difficult to cover up the fact that all the major point in your life are horrible with some shiny random pleasant things. Look, my situation is this. What family I know is bad blood. The couple friends that I have are in the same position or don't have the patience to help. I don't drive and because of years of depression my credit and work history has suffered tremendously. Again, I've never done drugs, i've never felt inclined to go on drinking binges nor any other kind of habit that would serve to catalyze self destructive behavior. Just this damn funk sitting in my head that makes its so that with each new bad occurrence seems worse than last because stuff just piles up faster than I can dig out of it. I'm on my own, no one I know understands the way or why I think the way that I do about thing, I don't drive, I have no job, no significant other, I'm taunted by the fact that the above factors prevent me from getting the money I need to finish my degree which would help break the cycle (i hope anyway) and soon i'll be living in a homeless shelter. I am at the bottom, and I am alone in that I have no close relationships with anyone because of being eccentric or 'depressing'.

sigh... i dont know if all this is the depression talking or just the way i look at things...

[magi13]

Can you accept the world for the way it really is? without sugar coating? can you handle that? If you can, then welcome to the club. But if you can't it'll take some time to get stronger, like you are now.

I don't know what to say anymore except that, do what you feel is right, without regrets. Do not regret the choice you will make, and research more things about suicide and depression. support groups.

[Safyreking]

Originally Posted by The David

I get 90 days of generic Zoloft for $15.99 at Rite-Aid. If you're in a homeless shelter even 15 bucks is a lot, I guess, but if you think an SSRI could help you it is definitely a risk worth taking at this point.



Well, obviously I share some of it or I wouldn't be taking Zoloft. I'm not really that profound, and I doubt that profundity is what you need at this point. You're depressed. Depression doesn't mean the world or your life sucks. Depression just means that you can't respond positively to the world around you. This could be because of physical problems, or personality, or really bad thought patterns, or any number of things. You could be just as happy or just as depressed in a homeless shelter as you could be in a middle class suburban
paradise.

This advice isn't supposed to make you feel better. If it took that little to make you feel better, you wouldn't be where you are. But if you're going to improve your circumstance and your stormy emotional processes, you need to start by understanding the difference between the two.

I'm not downplaying your problems, of course. Being unemployed and homeless in this economy would be terrifying. I'm a dependent college student and I still worry about making it in the world. I'm just saying these things because no one else has so far.

$15 is about third of what i have left right now. Just one med never seemed to work well. I was usually on two at a time, one for anxiety, one for depression, Welbutrin, Paxil and Cymbalta are all stupidly expensive.

I've lacked the ability to genuinely look at the world positively years ago. And each bad thing thats happened since has just been like another nail in the coffin.

What I need now more than ever is to feel like there's someone out there I can really relate to (something I've never had and that's not the depression talking) and a real genuine chance at something good for life.

[Safyreking]

Originally Posted by magi13

Can you accept the world for the way it really is? without sugar coating? can you handle that? If you can, then welcome to the club. But if you can't it'll take some time to get stronger, like you are now.

I don't know what to say anymore except that, do what you feel is right, without regrets. Do not regret the choice you will make, and research more things about suicide and depression. support groups.

The thing is i've learned sooo much about depression, its effects, including long term on both the mind and the body. So much so I'm pretty damned sure I could start my own practice. And yet for all my knowledge and intelligence these same emotions which now run rampant through my head have gotten to the point of literally toxic levels. Read up on the effects of stress and cortisol on the brain. If i don't break this cycle I fear what I'll end up like but I'm so buried in everything that wrong that I don't think it's possible for me to break it on my own anymore. And there's not enough people around with the patience or the understanding to help.

I'm going to apply to see if i'm eligible for free meds from some of the special programs pharmaceutical companies run and hope that they help if I am. If I somehow make it through all this I'm actually scared about the type of person i'll be, because stuff like in my experiences leaves a person scarred.

[Safyreking]

Originally Posted by Angela Leeds

You're right, it isn't easy to achieve lift-off when you're at the bottom. I've been there and I know the gravitational pull it has, and how people perceive someone in that state as a "loser"...and how "the system" has so many built-in ways to perpetuate the sitation. I was a single mom living in abject poverty for many years, and it mystified me how people could get their lives to work, while I felt like what I affectionately called "a bottom-feeder" at the time. . And like you, I was very smart, so it seemed like such a waste. And like you, I had no degree or training (I'm just inferring that from what you've said...)

*However*...when you really want something, and you have a really good reason for making it happen, there's a lot of power in that because it keeps you focused and determined, like a long burning fuse that eventually ignites the force needed for lift-off.

Also, whether you're formally educated or not, there is simply never, *ever* any substitute for loving what you're doing, for genuinely focusing on doing a good job, or for knowing you really do have something of value to offer. That's why I've recommended starting with something you really love and seeing what you can develop with it.

Here's another piece to keep in mind...you don't need to mention "depression" or "dysthemia" to any prospective employer. It's none of their business...their business is that you do your job. The rest is personal, and your own journey to work on. Present yourself as someone who wants the job, can do it, and will be as positive while on the clock as you can.

How are you at organizing ideas and things so they're maximally useful? Someone with your rapid-learning ability can translate that into "systems" jobs...like software programming, or even starting out in an office making things more efficient, as a general all-around assistant. The cool thing about being in your position is that there are governemt-funded programs you could get into that would pay for your training...for your books, for all kinds of things.

My reccommendation is to begin "working" the system like crazy. And no matter how people treat you within the bureaucracy that delivers these programs, make it your #1 edict to be friendly, eager, and enthusiastic. People will start coming out of the woodwork to help you. Because their own lives are dreary and hopeless, and if they see you striving with hope and determination to better your own condition, you'll touch something in any of them who aren't dead in their soul yet. They'll want to help you get to the next level!

Go watch that youtube video "Validation".

I understand and I've already done massive research into program designed to help out people like myself but I guess what i fear is that these same emotions will grip me again and they'll get out of control and ruin myself just as they have so far. I hope that I can get employed and get the meds i need to finally get level because the one thing i have to be honest with myself about is that at one point i thought I could handle but its clear that at this point I can not and I need help in breaking the cycle.

[JSB]

Depression cannot be fought by the logical mind; you can't think your way out of it. I know some people are strongly opposed to antidepressants, but they at least approach underlying physical/biochemical nature of depression, even if they only deal with it symptomatically.

I would recommend anything that help to heal you physiologically and energetically. If you can do this first, you can address the negative thought patterns much more easily afterwards.

Reduce or remove anything in your diet that may be contributing to chronic low-level inflammation (it can affect the brain too). Eliminate sugar and white flour if at all possible. Experiment with eliminating dairy and wheat products (gluten) -- this may or may not help you, depending on your physiology. Experiment with eliminating stimulants (caffeine, nicotine, etc.) -- this may cause your mood to worsen or it may help reduce anxiety. YMMV. Experiment with eliminating alcohol and recreational drugs.

Add vegetables and fruits if possible. Add high quality fish oil supplements if possible (molecularly distilled to remove mercury).

Exercise as much as you can (cardio and strength) -- this can boost mood.

Work on healing energetic blocks. Try tai chi, qigong, reiki, acupuncture, EFT, and yoga --- anything that works to move, strengthen and balance energy (called chi [qi], ki, or prana). This is where you have the potential to see the greatest results. Once you can open the energy blockages, and keep the energy flowing, your body will begin to repair itself and your emotions will lighten. tai chi and yoga are very popular these days, but many instructors are of poor quality -- they only know the external, physical movements but don't understand the underlying energetic principles. For chronic, deeply set issues like long-term depression, it will take time and repetition to see results.

You may want to start with EFT, as it is simple and free, and learn more about qigong or taichi when you have the chance. Ken Cohen has good qigong books. Chunyi Lin has good books/videos of his own (highly effective) qigong system.

Also, be careful about going off antidepressants. Some people feel good and go off them only to crash. Some drugs have a very unpleasant withdrawal. Not saying you need them forever, but be cautious about how you reduce or quit.

Tell me if you'd like more specific recommendations/websites, etc. regarding energy stuff.

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Safyreking

So many things about our culture and the way we're programmed to think about things makes no sense and continues to further perpetuate a cycle of damaging behavior.

Well, there's your problem. You're blaming your problems on your belief that other people are the problem. Don't confuse beliefs and reality. The ONLY reason that the world is broken is because you choose to believe that it is broken. That is a judgment, your judgment, which creates the reality for you. If you believe that something sucks, then it doesn't matter how great it is because it will suck for you no matter what.

So what's making you miserable? Your judgment. It's not making you happy, it's not making anybody else happy, and it doesn't seem to be doing anything else useful. Why do you still use it to control your life? Let go of your judgments; they aren't real. They are all lies, causing only suffering and apathy. Judgments of the world, judgments of yourself, let go of them all and you will be free.

It's difficult, I know. You've spent your life using these judgments as truth to guide your life. There seems to be an unending supply to the evidence justifying them. But that is because they feed themselves, and choke out contrary judgments. Your judgments have skewed your perception so that you only see things that support them, and rarely see the things that contradict them. Those contradictions exist, in abundance, but you can't let yourself see them and still hold onto your judgments. If you need proof of how useless and broken your judgments are, just look at where they've gotten you. Look at how miserable and decrepit your life has become.

Learn to ignore the judgments as they come up in your head, and you will be able to stop hating the world. Judgments are a lie, all of them. You will be tempted to justify them. Don't. Don't evidence-gather on their behalf. Be free.

[Angela Leeds]

Originally Posted by Safyreking

the one thing i have to be honest with myself about is that at one point i thought I could handle but its clear that at this point I can not and I need help in breaking the cycle.

I understand. Sending you some good vibes & best wishes that everything you need comes to you, easily. I think that having an experience of things coming easily for you right now would be worth more than anything else you could do. That's what I'm envisioning for you...and sending energy your way to make it be so.

[Angela Leeds]

Originally Posted by The Cloud

Well, there's your problem. You're blaming your problems on your belief that other people are the problem

Thing is, Cloud, that might be a helpful distinction for Safyre to make while in the course of therapy, and while in a more strengthened state of mind. I don't think it's going to do much good for him at the moment...he's reaching out for some help, some coping tips, some pragmatic step he can take to make a difference in his life when he's in a hard spot, both emotionally and financially.

It would probably be *much* more helpful for him to get really pissed off, not at himself but at life in general, and give the Universe a good talking to: "Enough of this BS! Throw me a g**-damn bone, give me a job that will get me out of this mess, and give me a friend who will understand me! I'm sick of this s**t! I know life can be different and I expect an improvement *right now*, g**-dammit!"

Becoming angry is a step *up* the emotional chain from depression, as far as raising one's personal vibration. Doesn't matter whether all the ideas in such a statement are "judgment-free", as you might consider them. Getting pissed takes a depressed, demoralized person from a disempowered & despairing state into a position of action & command. It's far more powerful than being depressed.

Safyre...have you tried that? Or do you have judgments against becoming angry?

[Safyreking]

The Cloud: Well here's the thing, my judgements are more like blatant observations. The problems I witness aren't made up in my biased imagination. They are very much real and therefore subject to scrutiny. Not to say I can't see what good there is the world but problem is that the problem that face our society affects the society as a whole but yet we've gotten ourselves in neck high in this cycle of crap because we were told that's what we had to do because the majority said so... even though it was flawed thinking. My judgements are irrelevant. Those problems are there whether or not I choose to point them out.

Edit: I also wanted to add that you made the assumption that I was blaming my problems on society. I never said that, if anything its reinforcing the depression through frustration about the problems I witness. I've already stated that my failed ability to control my feeling of dread is whats been causing the problems initially.

Angela: And to answer your question yes, I have gotten angry. Its one of things that feeds any attempts at salvaging this fubar'd life. That and the chance to get into a position where I can say "HEY! THATS ****ED UP, DO IT THIS WAY IT MAKES MORE SENSE!" and actually have someone listen. But as logic dictates why listen to some guy who's living in a homeless shelter?

[RRR]

I've been dead inside for over a decade. help? A thread on my experiences with depression.

I've made significant changes since I made that post. I moved from Ohio to California. I've stopped talking to my family. I've changed my diet. I have a vision for the future that is meaningful, pleasurable, and a worthwhile challenge.

If you are like me.. Childhood sucked. I was more intelligent than the people who raised me. I was more intelligent than the ridiculous culture I was raised in. My childhood was a massive insult to my capabilities, my individuality, my desires, my feelings. And as a child the choice to become apathetic, hostile, and withdrawn wasn't a terrible choice. I couldn't just up and leave my parents at the age of 5, I had no way of knowing how I would survive. Eventually knowing you are living with people who don't respect you can be maddening, and knowing you are too small to do anything about it is equally depressing.

My advice is to sort through your childhood. You are now big enough to say "**** OFF" to anyone who tries to boss you around. You are now big enough to get what YOU want because YOU are RIGHT. YOU are the smart one. YOU know what is best. YOU can do anything YOU want to do. And guess what.. You have a 140 IQ. Do whatever YOU want with it. You don't have to use it. You can do whatever you want.

If society is retarded, form your own society. You don't have to associate with the general population.. Most people only hang out with a small group of friends on any normal basis anyways. Get a collection of people and activities you enjoy.

[Angela Leeds]

Love it. Great post, RRR. Kudos to you for finding your way thru the muck.

Safyre, great comment about your judgments being observations of "what is". Here's my challenge to you: Rather than modeling your future based on a pattern established by these observations, can you create a model, a vision, an idea, of what you want your life to be like and feed it with your attention, in order to let *that* become the pattern for your future?

For example, imagine yourself waking up happy, feeling at home in the world, like you have a good place in it, and things come to you easily as you need them. What would that look like? What would that *feel* like to you?

If you play with this in your mind and use it to manipulate your feelings into good feelings -- or at least, better feelings that you feel today -- and just keep massaging that image and improving those feelings, using that vision day-by-day, sticking with it like a positive addiction...I believe you will notice a shift of some kind.

The trick is to find a way to use your mind to manipulate your feelings, to keep raising them to the next level. Make a game of it...you could make it the primary objective of each day to see what new vibe you can tune into within. The body is such a *wildly powerful* pharmaceutical manufacturer...the more you can use your mind to improve your moods, the better your body can become at creating hormonal substances, and got knows what else it does, to improve your brain chemistry.

It's powerful stuff. And doesn't cost a thing.

Hang on...I've got a list of various emotional states and how they rank, from highest to lowest. I'll get it and post it below. The game is to basically identify roughly where you are in the list and see what it takes to get yourself to the next level. Sort of like a gym workout for your mind & emotions.


************************************************** ****
Here it is, a scale of emotions. Taken from one of the Esther & Jeffrey Hicks "Abraham" books:

1. Joy/Knowledge/Empowerment/Freedom/Love/Appreciation
2. Passion
3. Enthusiasm/Eagerness/Happiness
4. Positive Expectation/Belief
5. Optimism
6. Hopefulness
7. Contentment
8. Boredom
9. Pessimism
10. Frustration/Irritation/Impatience
11. "Overwhelment"
12. Disappointment
13. Doubt
14. Worry
15. Blame
16. Discouragement
17. Anger
18. Revenge
19. Hatred/Rage
20. Jealousy
21. Insecurity/Guilt/Unworthiness
22. Fear/Grief/Depression/Despair/Powerlessness

So...this is just a general guide. But I'm wondering, how high have you gone on this list in, say, the past year? Can you remember what caused you to hit your highest points? See if you can start playing with *those* experiences as *ideas* on which you can model new feelings, and a new future.

What do you think?

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Safyreking

Well here's the thing, my judgements are more like blatant observations. The problems I witness aren't made up in my biased imagination. They are very much real and therefore subject to scrutiny. Not to say I can't see what good there is the world but problem is that the problem that face our society affects the society as a whole but yet we've gotten ourselves in neck high in this cycle of crap because we were told that's what we had to do because the majority said so... even though it was flawed thinking. My judgements are irrelevant. Those problems are there whether or not I choose to point them out.

Aren't you in a personal cycle of crap? And if you're in a cycle of crap, and the problem with society is that it's in a cycle of crap, then aren't you part of the problem? You can't blame society for what you are personally responsible for; yourself. You are making your own contribution to the problem that you say you are so against. You're complaining about crime while stealing a purse. YOU are your problem, not society.

Do you know what that problem is? Judgment. Everybody is so damned convinced that they are right, that they must be right, that they're willing to destroy themselves to prove it. Beliefs have become more important than people or living. Our society is the result of mass self-destruction. And you're as self-destructive as the worst of us, so you must be one of the greater contributors to the problem. All in defense of beliefs like the ones that you hold so dearly as truth. You are defending nothing with everything you have.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Safyreking

The Cloud: Well here's the thing, my judgements are more like blatant observations. The problems I witness aren't made up in my biased imagination. They are very much real and therefore subject to scrutiny. Not to say I can't see what good there is the world but problem is that the problem that face our society affects the society as a whole but yet we've gotten ourselves in neck high in this cycle of crap because we were told that's what we had to do because the majority said so... even though it was flawed thinking. My judgements are irrelevant. Those problems are there whether or not I choose to point them out.

Hi Safyreking,

Thanks for posting! I resonate with much of what you've said here.

My advice for you for now is to move somewhere more pleasant. Not all places in the United States are equally evolved. Certain locales are much higher functioning than others.

Also, note that the United States is going through a severe economic collapse and restructuring process right now. Aspects of it will be (and currently are) unpleasant for everyone, however, some cities are doing much better than others.

Detroit, for instance, is already a messy, post apocalyptic nightmare. Many cities throughout the Midwest are headed this direction. And you're right, in places like that it's very difficult to regain your footing once you're impoverished. Depression is the status quo.

But that isn't the case in all places. Many cities (often the smartest and nicest ones) have a multi-layered safety net to protect people from falling through the cracks in society.

I'm not sure what city you're in. I would highly recommend taking stock of your alternatives before choosing to stay there. This is a big country and there's no need to fall into a Lucifer Effect area if you don't have to.

[Safyreking]

Originally Posted by RRR

I've been dead inside for over a decade. help? A thread on my experiences with depression.

I've made significant changes since I made that post. I moved from Ohio to California. I've stopped talking to my family. I've changed my diet. I have a vision for the future that is meaningful, pleasurable, and a worthwhile challenge.

If you are like me.. Childhood sucked. I was more intelligent than the people who raised me. I was more intelligent than the ridiculous culture I was raised in. My childhood was a massive insult to my capabilities, my individuality, my desires, my feelings. And as a child the choice to become apathetic, hostile, and withdrawn wasn't a terrible choice. I couldn't just up and leave my parents at the age of 5, I had no way of knowing how I would survive. Eventually knowing you are living with people who don't respect you can be maddening, and knowing you are too small to do anything about it is equally depressing.

Childhood did suck. Not to say there werent some good times in there but... Mom nearly succeeded in killing herself before I was 1. Dad wasn't exactly thrilled about becoming a dad, and after their divorce around my 2nd birthday the courts gave custody to my grandparents for the early portion of my childhood. More custody battles ensued and my bi-polar, pot addicted mom usually won because she was great at drama and managed to make a little more money than my dad. Its fun living someone who can't normal without smoking fat blunt and loved to start fights with people over the smallest ****... throwing and screaming **** across the room so loud the neighbors call the cops. Fun times indeed. I was like you, i was intelligent, had good manners, more mature than some adults i know and didn't get into trouble(*usually... lol). And that set me apart from many other kids, that I bounced schools with each custody battle so making new friends seemed to get tougher and tougher. It was stressful at home, stressful at school and when you don't have any siblings you begin to feel really alone. Eventually it got the point that all i wanted to be was alone. I understand more than ever that behavior hurt me more in the long run. I went to counseling as a kid a few times then as an adult but didnt go on medication until i was in college... well that's not entirely true, my mom convinced a doc that i needed to go Ritalin because apparently i was having trouble concentrating at school when i was around 16 years old... that lasted for a total of 3 weeks when all it did was make me mega-hyper.. apparently she just couldn't figure out what would be causing such an issue. >.<

Originally Posted by RRR

My advice is to sort through your childhood. You are now big enough to say "**** OFF" to anyone who tries to boss you around. You are now big enough to get what YOU want because YOU are RIGHT. YOU are the smart one. YOU know what is best. YOU can do anything YOU want to do. And guess what.. You have a 140 IQ. Do whatever YOU want with it. You don't have to use it. You can do whatever you want.

If society is retarded, form your own society. You don't have to associate with the general population.. Most people only hang out with a small group of friends on any normal basis anyways. Get a collection of people and activities you enjoy.

Heh well I've already told FU to my parents which is main reason why they wont help. I already know and have been told i'm plenty smart, maybe too much for my own good according to my father... the problem is getting a hold and dampening my reactions to stress and anxiety so i can concentrate and put that intelligence to good use. For whatever reason I was born kind of sensitive and I just take things alot harder and I think its made worse by whatever chemical imbalance is lurking in my head after experiencing all that BS for years on end.

[Safyreking]

Originally Posted by The Cloud

Aren't you in a personal cycle of crap? And if you're in a cycle of crap, and the problem with society is that it's in a cycle of crap, then aren't you part of the problem? You can't blame society for what you are personally responsible for; yourself. You are making your own contribution to the problem that you say you are so against. You're complaining about crime while stealing a purse. YOU are your problem, not society.

Do you know what that problem is? Judgment. Everybody is so damned convinced that they are right, that they must be right, that they're willing to destroy themselves to prove it. Beliefs have become more important than people or living. Our society is the result of mass self-destruction. And you're as self-destructive as the worst of us, so you must be one of the greater contributors to the problem. All in defense of beliefs like the ones that you hold so dearly as truth. You are defending nothing with everything you have.

You hold a great deal of angst in your words and it appears that you've taken what I've said somewhat offensively.

Like I've mentioned, I've already pointed out that my biggest flaw and the major cause of my life's downward spiral is my in ability to shake this sense of hopelessness. Maybe I am being judgmental but you can't honestly tell me there isnt something ****ed up about teachers barely making ends meet, one of the most influential people in any child's life while athletes are getting pissed off that they didnt get 25 million dollars for their contract?! If the cities who help pay for the teams salaries so much as shaves 1,2, or even 3% off of said salaries and redirected them to the city's school district the result would be tremendous across the board! I dare you to tell me that doesn't seem like the way things should be done. Why we hold people that throw a stupid ball around a court or field over those that could potentially supply us with a better educated society is beyond me... makes no sense and its those kind of ideals that infuriate me.

[Safyreking]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Hi Safyreking,

Thanks for posting! I resonate with much of what you've said here.

My advice for you for now is to move somewhere more pleasant. Not all places in the United States are equally evolved. Certain locales are much higher functioning than others.

Also, note that the United States is going through a severe economic collapse and restructuring process right now. Aspects of it will be (and currently are) unpleasant for everyone, however, some cities are doing much better than others.

Detroit, for instance, is already a messy, post apocalyptic nightmare. Many cities throughout the Midwest are headed this direction. And you're right, in places like that it's very difficult to regain your footing once you're impoverished. Depression is the status quo.

But that isn't the case in all places. Many cities (often the smartest and nicest ones) have a multi-layered safety net to protect people from falling through the cracks in society.

I'm not sure what city you're in. I would highly recommend taking stock of your alternatives before choosing to stay there. This is a big country and there's no need to fall into a Lucifer Effect area if you don't have to.

Oh how I would love to move out of Ohio!... I just don't have the money for such a move... which again depresses me... argh.

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Safyreking

You hold a great deal of angst in your words and it appears that you've taken what I've said somewhat defensively.

No, not really. I was just applying Angela's advice that maybe you just need to get angry. I should have known better than to try to appeal to your base emotions. I don't really care that much, although I do understand where you're coming from.

Originally Posted by Safyreking

Maybe I am being judgmental but you can't honestly tell me there isnt something ****ed up about teachers barely making ends meet, one of the most influential people in any child's life while athletes are getting pissed off that they didnt get 25 million dollars for their contract?! If the cities who help pay for the teams salaries so much as shaves 1,2, or even 3% off of said salaries and redirected them to the city's school district the result would be tremendous across the board! I dare you to tell me that doesn't seem like the way things should be done. Why we hold people that throw a stupid ball around a court or field over those that could potentially supply us with a better educated society is beyond me... makes no sense and its those kind of ideals that infuriate me.

Why should anybody be any less ****ed up than you? Maybe the pot is right in calling the kettle black, but it doesn't do the pot much good either way as long as it is black itself. You can be angry at society for not being what you want, and be angry at yourself for not being any better than society, but right or wrong your anger doesn't have the power to improve anything. It only has the power to keep things the same or make them worse. If you need evidence, just look at the uselessness of my previous post.

[Dan.Linehan]

Ohio, huh?

Why does that not surprise me..

[RRR]

Ahahhaa.. Ohio strikes again.

What part are you in? I was in Dayton.

[Safyreking]

Originally Posted by The Cloud

No, not really. I was just applying Angela's advice that maybe you just need to get angry. I should have known better than to try to appeal to your base emotions. I don't really care that much, although I do understand where you're coming from.



Why should anybody be any less ****ed up than you? Maybe the pot is right in calling the kettle black, but it doesn't do the pot much good either way as long as it is black itself. You can be angry at society for not being what you want, and be angry at yourself for not being any better than society, but right or wrong your anger doesn't have the power to improve anything. It only has the power to keep things the same or make them worse. If you need evidence, just look at the uselessness of my previous post.

Maybe you are right but I can't help thinking about it. Its my gut instinct to analyze a problem and to think of a way to make it better... and when I realize its a big group of people with the same asinine way of thinking that stands in the way of that solution... its well, kind of maddening. I'm incapable of not giving a crap about what goes on around me. I'm an observer, a learner, I take in all that around and process it. You're right in that it doesn't do me any good to pick apart society's problems when i have my own to deal with but at the same time I know that I'd just like to live in a place where we do things that makes sense and that would help one another. I don't want to bust my ass just to live life and watch as society manages to destroy itself, its not right, I'm not that heartless. I'm just frustrated and infuriated by all the other people out there that end up suffering as a result the flawed decisions the majority makes because they seemingly lack the insight to do so effectively.