Parents at a lower level of consciousness?

[StevenA]

I'm in a difficult situation, and not sure which route to take. I'm in college, and my parents are paying my rent and everything. Only problem is a find it extremely detrimental to my mental health to be around them. My mom is bi-polar and I have to be very careful to avoid intense confrontations. I fell into one of them this Christmas and was basically treated like a therapist, but only after being threatened to basically be there for my mom otherwise my school and rent assistance will be at stake. I've been out on my own for less than a year now and I feel I've made amazing progress. I want to have a relationship with my family, but I know that only they can help themselves as far as mental health goes, and I feel like my autonomy diminishes drastically when I'm around them. I'm not sure whether I should continue to try and find a balance or if I should just spend a lot of time working and have more independence now. I am a musician and had no inspiration or energy whatsoever when I was working 50+ hours a week at what I considered to be menial jobs.

Anyone else having or already had a similar experience?

[smallstar]

Let me guess... you have been a very responsible as a kid, and now you are being rewarded by being given an even greater burden.

I have known something similar in my life, and I have to say this. Kids should never be therapists to their parents. If they have money to spare, let them get a f******' professional with it (as much as I distrust the whole profession).

It seems that they are not yet used to the fact that you are independent. Taking a time-out, and some time even farther from them, could help.

Another thing is that some people scream mindless threats at others when mad, without meaning them for real. You probably know your mom better if she really means it or not.

Ultimately, it is up to your diplomacy skills and how well you can handle yourself out of the situation, keeping both your integrity, their friendship and support. I'd avoid the situation where you'll have to make a choice between them - both choices (losing their support, and prostituting your mind for money) seem equally bad.

[Michelle]

I so feel for you.

I moved to Switzerland at the age of 19 to escape my loveless and dysfunctional family. I am also a musician. And even though I am not financially dependent on my family, they still insist on coming out of the woodwork every so often and writing or calling.

It would be great to tell them that I wish for absolutely no contact, but some part of me resists causing them that kind of pain.

If I had to suggest something to you, it would be to become financially independent ASAP or transfer to a school where contact is less possible. Perhaps it would help to set rules of conduct for your parents? Try writing them an unemotional letter saying:

1. If (insert behavior here) occurs, I will leave the house and there will be no contact for 30 days.
2. ...
3. ...

The reaction will probably be heavy at first, but eventually they will calm down.

Also, consider finding a good therapist for yourself (they often offer this service for free on campus - feel free to try out a few therapists to find one right for you) and talking about this stuff.

[Farryn]

I too have parents at a lower level of consciousness and I find it extremely difficult to communicate with them. As I developed more independence (I'm 24), I wanted to develop a closer relationship with my parents but every time I spoke to them I felt drained, frustrated, and sad. In each conversation I could see how domesticated they were, and I could pick out the negative/restrictive beliefs that had programmed me as a child. I had to (and still have to!) be very aware to be able fight their beliefs away from my consciousness. I'm in counselling to help rid myself of most of the negative beliefs but I still have a long way to go to be completely free of all the destructive beliefs I learnt as a child.

I have now unfortunately made the counscious decision not to have very deep conversations with my parents. I see them and smile, tell them I love them, say "how are you?", but it hardly goes beyond that. I hope one day that we'll be able to have the close relationship that I've wanted, but for now, until I get strong enough that their beliefs don't affect me or lower my mood, I feel that I'll have to avoid any deep or lengthy interactions with them. I have no idea how they feel about this distance, or if they've even noticed, but I do know that as long as each time they see me I'm happy and busy, they're happy.

[fballer11]

God, I love this whole forum. I just had a fight with my mom. 2 minutes ago. then i saw this
I have been planning to say this, and finally did.
It boils down to
"I love you unconditionally, but if you keep treating me the way you do, I will go on with my life and not let me drag you down." Of course she got really flustered, but I stayed calm, and I think it hit home.

Why does this happen? Maybe its explained in the book Indigo Children. They say that this younger generation is already very awake, and essentially we don't take crap from anyone, even our parents.

Some people tell me that I am just rebellious, blah blah, my parents are right. But what do you guys think. I happen to think that for the level I am at now, my parents hurt me more than help me. They try to tell me that they are in control of my life, not me.

Mostly my mom. I am a 16 year old male. and I want to be a musician. What is up with he musician thing?

[fballer11]

Oh. I forgot, Steve Pavlina seems to have somewhat outgrown his parents. Steve do you have any comments?

[Ann]

heh, you are not the only one who is having this problem

I had a big fight about what I really wanted to do in life this past summer and I have not shared my goals with my parents at all. I only share them with my best friends who support me

The reason parents are draining our own energy and not encouraging our goals is because they do not believe we can do it and they are scared for our failure. They think they are doing the best for you when they are making things worse lol

So, the best thing to do is prove them wrong and don't give up on your dreams while facing loads of obstacles... If you become very successful, they will tell everyone "I KNEW MY CHILD COULD DO THIS ALL ALONG!"

[maryelyn]

good grief...

'how sharper than a serpent's tooth...'

[Ann]

One more thing: if you rely on your parents for financial stuff, you're doomed because they will always control you.

If you earn your own money regardless of the circumstances you're in, you are in control of your dreams and financial situation

[StevenA]

Thanks for the support, everyone. I actually just started going to a therapist for social anxiety and some other stuff, stuff that I now see in my parents but not really in other people. He suggested I create a better network of friends because although I can't choose my family, I can choose every other person I surround myself with. Another thing he suggested is to just be at peace with them and instead of mirroring their behavior, setting up boundaries and making an example of what kind of relationship I want with them through my behaviors. Pretty good stuff. I'm still trying to figure out a way to implement and remind myself of this all, though.

[Ann]

Originally Posted by StevenA

He suggested I create a better network of friends

That is so true. Like I said before, I have some close friends whom I share my goals with and are just as ambitious as me. I visualized and wrote affirmations the kind of friends I want.

he suggested is to just be at peace with them and instead of mirroring their behavior, setting up boundaries and making an example of what kind of relationship I want with them through my behaviors.

I agree. I'm at peace with my parents at the moment. If they say something you don't agree, let them be right. The good thing is that all of us practice meditations (well I am supposed to) and things are smoother now.

Take one step at a time.

One thing that helped me go through all this madness is reading positive, spiritual books, writing affirmations, watching The Secret.

Somehow, things are working out on their own now.

[demk]

There's no rule to say you have to get on with your parents, although it is preferable. We are such a different generation so its easy to see there will be massive differences in opinion.

[fballer11]

Originally Posted by Ann

One more thing: if you rely on your parents for financial stuff, you're doomed because they will always control you.

If you earn your own money regardless of the circumstances you're in, you are in control of your dreams and financial situation

I agree. I am 16, so how do I make money with no time for a job. Not to hijack, but I can probably get a full ride somewhere so that is a plus

[StevenA]

Originally Posted by fballer11

I agree. I am 16, so how do I make money with no time for a job. Not to hijack, but I can probably get a full ride somewhere so that is a plus

I was in your position not too long ago. The way I see it is that sometimes laws of our parents, society, or our country force us to be face to face with lower levels of consciousness. Usually there will still actually be a way out, but perhaps sometimes we really are better off just identifying/taking note of these mental drains and making the best out of them until we are better able to face them.

Tonight I faced one of my issues with my girlfriend being condescending towards things I do that she has nothing in common with. I set boundaries and was firm. I feel wonderful. I know now that ultimately I'm going to have to face my parents in the same manner. I'm not sure if I'm ready just yet, but it is good to know what the next step is.

[Ann]

Originally Posted by StevenA

I was in your position not too long ago. The way I see it is that sometimes laws of our parents, society, or our country force us to be face to face with lower levels of consciousness. Usually there will still actually be a way out, but perhaps sometimes we really are better off just identifying/taking note of these mental drains and making the best out of them until we are better able to face them.

I was going to say that because I also was in the same position, but you hit it right on the spot

Tonight I faced one of my issues with my girlfriend being condescending towards things I do that she has nothing in common with. I set boundaries and was firm. I feel wonderful. I know now that ultimately I'm going to have to face my parents in the same manner. I'm not sure if I'm ready just yet, but it is good to know what the next step is.

Way to go!!!

Success comes one step at a time. Don't worry if you are ready or not, it will come when it's the right time to talk to your parents. Don't force the issue

[AndyMartin]

There is a deep fallacy in judging some one else's level of consciousness, and there is a big gap between becoming aware of a level of consciousness and transcending it. Consciousness unfolds before you like a staircase. Just because you can see a step doesn't mean you're on it; and just because you can see somebody else on the staircase doesn't mean they're on a step below. But you can't walk up while you're looking at other people's feet. You also cannot skip steps, and you cannot say that the last step is any better or more important than the first. In other words and in all sincerity, until you have lost all desire to judge, you are unqualified to do so. There's a reason this subject (judging) has been addressed by every spiritual discipline.

And besides, even if global consciousness were to shift tomorrow, there would still be a spectrum of levels. Meaning that we will always be working with people who are both higher and lower in conscious development than ourselves. In fact, by trying to raise your own consciousness, you are effectively attempting to increase the number of people lower than yourself. So either get used to it, or start giving them a hand up; preferably both.

That said, difficult family is not easy to deal with. As pretty much every person with a family can attest. But it doesn't do your own awareness any good to escape it, deny it, or begrudge it. In fact, all of those things cause awareness to contract. They are your family, and whatever cosmology you choose to explain it, that's the way the cards were dealt and if you are to continue your own expansion, you need to fully address this.

So I would say the real question for you to examine is why this is a problem for you? Why do you allow their behavior to affect your sense of autonomy or well-being? Why do you have a problem with what you perceive as their level of consciousness? So you don't want to be a therapist, but you're doing it. Something's got to give. Figure out why you behave the way you do and why you react to their behavior the way you do, and your problem will be closer to solved. Then address it with them (not at them) and you may find everyone can grow a bit in the solving.

[stephencp]

I find it interesting that most of the people who are supposedly on a "higher plane" in these kinds of anti-parent threads would be happier helping homeless people, starving children or trying to save the environment than helping their own parents/family (assuming that they are in fact on a "lower level".) Why is that???

Stephen
Power-Book Library: Free personal development, success, inspiration and motivational classics

[Michelle]

Because I have never been hurt by a homeless person.

My parents hurt me a great deal growing up - mostly unconsciously, of course.

This is what I struggle with most of all. It is a very difficult topic.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by stephencp

I find it interesting that most of the people who are supposedly on a "higher plane" in these kinds of anti-parent threads would be happier helping homeless people, starving children or trying to save the environment than helping their own parents/family (assuming that they are in fact on a "lower level".) Why is that???

Stephen
Power-Book Library: Free personal development, success, inspiration and motivational classics

Because there are too many people who belief they can't possibly learn ANYTHING from anyone who is less knowledgable/intelligent/experienced than themselves.
There are different ways of increasing knowledge. Off the top of my head:

1. Through transmission (teaching)
2. Through research
3. Through reasoning(deductive/inductive)
4. ???

These people are usually afraid they're "submitting" to someone with a "lower" rank, and feel like their own social value is being lowered. It triggers their selfdefense:

• Ignore people with lower rank
• End the discussion by stating their own rank (I AM "responsible"/"your father"/"the teacher"/"in charge"/etc.,etc.)
• Protecting their sacrifices (I have "carried you around for 9 months"/"spent X years in college to learn these things"/"worked with important people"/"trained X years to get here")
• Reject arguments that make sense ("You're right, but guess what: I'M THE BOSS!","This is MY house! I make the rules here!" )

Moving from hierarchy to democracy
I think this kind of behaviour is the downside of hierarchical systems and people who cling to them. However, in the past fifty years societies have been moving from hierarchical structures towards more democratic structures.

In hierarchical systems, votes from higher ranks are assigned a greater value by than lower ranks. The outcome is "intelligent" ,but does not have to be "fair". Unfortunately, the assumption that someone with higher rank must be more intelligent doesn't always ring true. This system does not guarantee support.
People also tend to identify themselves with their rank so much, that they start believing their value relative to the system is also their intrinsic value. Not true. A different system could put the same people on other (or the same) ranks.

Democratic systems assign an equal value to all votes. There are no ranks involved. The outcome is "fair", but does not have to be "intelligent". All benefit, or all suffer. This system guarantees support.

Bottom line.Neither one of these systems can guarantee the best possible (objective) outcome.

Back to your question...
Stephen, you almost answered your own question.
It's easier to accept the help of a successful business owner, than the help of a homeless person. People simply avoid guiltiness. There is no guarantee that the business owner can't become homeless, or a homeless person can't become wealthy after (s)he has helped you out. The only thing that REALLY matters to you is whether the person is willing and able to help you.

Event though most people are unable to help their parents, it doesn't hold for everyone. Some people have been able to do that. From what I have been able to recognize, it happens more in families that are extremely poor or in families where one of the parents are missing.

[StevenA]

There's a lot of deep emotional ties and memories that I have with my parents and perhaps someday I will be able to help them, but right now at the ripe age of 19 having just fled the nest I am not really capable of helping them in that way when a year or two ago they were helping me emotionally. Just because someone is at a higher level of consciousness than someone else doesn't mean they are able to bring them up, although I'm not saying it's impossible in my situation. I just think that certain ways of doing it are inappropriate. In my ideal relationship with my parents I would rather set a good example of what I think to be appropriate behaviors than function as the descendant confidant. All of this became clear to me after the last situation and I am just now striving to make the change.

As far as being judgemental, I don't really see the harm in identifying obvious negative behaviors such as anger and depression. If I refused form even rough conclusions about simple emotional states then it would be very easy to surround myself with harmful people and situations, don't you think?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by StevenA

In my ideal relationship with my parents I would rather set a good example of what I think to be appropriate behaviors than function as the descendant confidant.

Same here. I stopped discussing the same things over and over again, just to convince someone who's obviously not open for your suggestions. I think leading by example is far more effective.

[AndyMartin]

Originally Posted by StevenA

As far as being judgemental, I don't really see the harm in identifying obvious negative behaviors such as anger and depression. If I refused form even rough conclusions about simple emotional states then it would be very easy to surround myself with harmful people and situations, don't you think?

Were you simply identifying behaviors? Or did you take those behaviors and make a judgment of the level of consciousness based on your opinion of those behaviors?

I'm not trying to beat you up here -- exactly the opposite. If you really are interested in the expansion of your own consciousness, you must realize that stating that you have it is not the same as having it, and in fact only causes it to contract. Just because you can identify those behaviors in others does not mean you have transcended the level of consciousness that gives rise to them. Only when you are no longer affected by them have you transcended them; and then your attainment demands that you help them or it will contract. If you are really serious about making progress against this, the best place you can start is by allowing things to be exactly as they are without calling them good or bad. Allow them to be, then act for their betterment.

[fballer11]

My mom is my main "problem". We are alone together, and she tries to turn me against my dad, who I respect. That makes me feel less respect for my mom! I actually try to help her. I may not be good at it, I need some help with it.

Our situation is she "hates" my dad, but will not forget him and get on with her own life. It hurts me a little, because we have no money cuz she wont get a job, just wants dad to help us.

Now this goes against everything Ive learned, especially from this blog! I tell her I can't live with you if you do not take care of your own life. Just recently I told her that I love her, but if she wants to save our relationship she needs to shape up and stop hindering me.

Was I too harsh? Please help w/advice. Thanks guys/gals

[fballer11]

Great post

[shesaboutspirit]

I agree, though am not even close to being as eloquent as Andy is. You know that old saying, which I'll no doubt mess up: When I was young I thought my parents knew everything, when I was in my teens...I couldn't believe how little they knew, but now that I'm an adult? I can't believe how much they've learned... Yeah, pretty sure I butchered that one.

The point though...is that when we judge, we're seeing from our ego. In my opinion (be gentle), to say somebody is on a lower level comes from ego. Who are we to judge someone else's level of awareness? Seven or so years ago, I would have told you that I was aware and evolved. Today, I am able to see how dysfunctional I really am...does that make me evolved or not evolved???

I think our parents deserve our respect, regardless of the painful lessons they're involved in. They are a part of our lessons...as we are for them.

Learning boundaries is very helpful. A huge help for me is learning about Enmeshment. Surely there are books... Just getting some fresh perspective on what a healthy family might even look like. Most of us are pretty clear on some of the dynamics that don't work for us. But really, you don't know what you don't know. It comes over time...and is well served by doing our best to find compassion for ourselves and our parents. I'm throwing siblings in here too...a particularly challenging growth opportunity in my world.

I've learned that I don't need to invite them to dinner...so to speak. But if I just turn my back...that character will pop up all over the place in my life, until a true healing takes place.



blessings,

Pam

[shesaboutspirit]

edited because I mixed up a couple of people and addressed the wrong one...oops.

sorry.

[Jm4362]

StevenA,

I'd like to say, good first step moving out of the house. I am also in my first year of college, and similarly have found that being "on my own" has really been a great help to me. So much so that being back "home" for the month of vacation has nearly driven me crazy...

I do agree with whoever said, "find a way to be financially independent of your parents." If you don't think menial labor is the solution, maybe you could take out loans to help pay for things. It might not be as convenient as the parents taking care of it, but at least you won't be relying on them.

My parents (and siblings) also seem to be at a lower level of consciousness, but even though I know I'm judging, it's hard to be accepting of them. It won't matter after next week, when I go back to school, but I'm dreading summer break...

Good luck to all the musicians here! The world can never have too much music.

~Jm4362

[StevenA]

Originally Posted by AndyMartin

Were you simply identifying behaviors? Or did you take those behaviors and make a judgment of the level of consciousness based on your opinion of those behaviors?

I'm not trying to beat you up here -- exactly the opposite. If you really are interested in the expansion of your own consciousness, you must realize that stating that you have it is not the same as having it, and in fact only causes it to contract. Just because you can identify those behaviors in others does not mean you have transcended the level of consciousness that gives rise to them. Only when you are no longer affected by them have you transcended them; and then your attainment demands that you help them or it will contract. If you are really serious about making progress against this, the best place you can start is by allowing things to be exactly as they are without calling them good or bad. Allow them to be, then act for their betterment.

First off, thanks for keeping me on my toes. I pretty much agree with what you're saying. I know I haven't completely trasnscended some of these particular behaviors that I've been reacting to, but they give me this feeling up being pulled down so to say. It's hard to act for their betterment when I'm still reacting to it upsettingly. I see now that my intention when starting this thread was to find ways to avoid or ignore something that I've been reacting to. It seems as though a behavior isn't truly mastered until you are able to just flow with it when being subjected to it as well.

But still, I feel like there is something contradictory in what you're saying, at least in my scope of reality. If I am to come to acceptance of all things and nothing is good or bad, then how can I improve myself? Wouldn't that mean there is nothing to get out of and nothing to move up to as far as personal development goes? I'm not sure if you intended for acceptance to have a universal value like how I'm thinking of it.

[AndyMartin]

Originally Posted by StevenA

But still, I feel like there is something contradictory in what you're saying, at least in my scope of reality. If I am to come to acceptance of all things and nothing is good or bad, then how can I improve myself? Wouldn't that mean there is nothing to get out of and nothing to move up to as far as personal development goes? I'm not sure if you intended for acceptance to have a universal value like how I'm thinking of it.

Yeah--it's a tricky thing, and you're right to see contradiction in it. But it's contradiction in the way that heads and tails are opposites, but both of them are still "coin."

The best way I can come up with to describe it is like this. If aren't physically active and you start working out, your muscles get sore. Are the sore muscles good or bad? They hurt, and that's bad. But they hurt because they're getting stronger, and that's good. If you judge sore muscles as bad and stop working out and you won't grow. If you decide that sore muscles are good, you'll overwork them and be in constant pain and possibly injure yourself.

The key -- and this is much harder to internally realize than to intellectually acknowledge -- is that perfection lies in fully being as things are right now, not in some future state to be attained. That is, to embrace what is right now as the best that can be right now. Part of the best that right now can be is knowing that the right effort right now will lead to a better next moment. So rather than living in what is not, you live in a constant unfolding, moment to moment, of everything that can be right now.

What happens is you become free to fully engage in what is before you. There is no avoidance, deliberate or unconscious, and your ability to grow -- both personally and in your relationship -- is greatly increased. On top of that, you gain an ability to help others grow, not by trying to change them, but simply by engaging them in your full presence you affect them in ways that will help them grow.

Like I said, it's much easier to accept this on an intellectual level than to really internalize it. Just think about it, and observe how you engage with life and others and see if you don't start noticing how things flow differently depending on how you are engaged in the present moment versus a past or future moment. That is where constant joy arises. I think you'll also start to see that your best moments are just an expression of a complete engagement with the right now, and what you'll really want is to act from that very best part of you right now, all of the time.

[StevenA]

Originally Posted by AndyMartin

Yeah--it's a tricky thing, and you're right to see contradiction in it. But it's contradiction in the way that heads and tails are opposites, but both of them are still "coin."

The best way I can come up with to describe it is like this. If aren't physically active and you start working out, your muscles get sore. Are the sore muscles good or bad? They hurt, and that's bad. But they hurt because they're getting stronger, and that's good. If you judge sore muscles as bad and stop working out and you won't grow. If you decide that sore muscles are good, you'll overwork them and be in constant pain and possibly injure yourself.

The key -- and this is much harder to internally realize than to intellectually acknowledge -- is that perfection lies in fully being as things are right now, not in some future state to be attained. That is, to embrace what is right now as the best that can be right now. Part of the best that right now can be is knowing that the right effort right now will lead to a better next moment. So rather than living in what is not, you live in a constant unfolding, moment to moment, of everything that can be right now.

What happens is you become free to fully engage in what is before you. There is no avoidance, deliberate or unconscious, and your ability to grow -- both personally and in your relationship -- is greatly increased. On top of that, you gain an ability to help others grow, not by trying to change them, but simply by engaging them in your full presence you affect them in ways that will help them grow.

Like I said, it's much easier to accept this on an intellectual level than to really internalize it. Just think about it, and observe how you engage with life and others and see if you don't start noticing how things flow differently depending on how you are engaged in the present moment versus a past or future moment. That is where constant joy arises. I think you'll also start to see that your best moments are just an expression of a complete engagement with the right now, and what you'll really want is to act from that very best part of you right now, all of the time.

Awesome post. I've been thinking on and trying to integrate (a little roughly) similar ways of thinking over the past couple weeks. This really helps reinforce what is making even more sense to me each time I think about it. I'm also starting to see the value of meditation. Without it, I would have a very difficult time internalizing any new way of thinking.

Thanks so much AndyMartin, and everybody else. You helped show me how to make a huge jump within my consciousness.