If I followed your advice, I would have no friends.

[SmartAlx]

They say that you should be yourself and accept yourself for who you are... that you shouldn't try to be someone that you aren't. If I followed that advice, then I would have no friends.

I am socially awkward. I am quiet. I don't know what to say with people. I constantly put my foot in my mouth. I am inhibited. I am introverted. I am shy. I am not boisterous. I don't have a lot of stories to tell. I don't know any jokes. I'm not naturally funny. I don't drink. I don't like going to bars. I don't like sports. I hate my job. I hate being alone. People's instincts when they meet me for the first time aren't always good. I get jealous of people who have it easier than me. And I think it shows.

So, what SHOULD I do? Accept myself for who I am, or take some classes to better myself so I can become more likable? Shouldn't I try to overcome my deficiencies? Should I just accept that I am not funny, or should I practice trying to be more funny?

I am sure that you all will say that bettering yourself is a good thing to do. But I believe that you will also say that you shouldn't try to change the core of your being. Don't change the real you. But these are the core of who I am. And they define someone that I do not want to be. I want people to be happy when they see me. I want them to miss me when I am gone. I want people to enjoy my presence when we go out. Realistically I accept that I'll never compete with the most naturally charismatic, but I can surely still become more likable than I am now.

Well, luckily for me I do NOT follow your advice. I do try to be more likeable. I try to hold conversations when I don't know what to say. I do try to be more funny. I practice filtering my thoughts so I don't put my foot in my mouth so much. I do practice making myself better. And because I do NOT accept myself for who I am, I do have friends and I expect that my list of friends to grow. Thank you Christianity for showing me the healthy way of being. Jesus Christ is my example and his perfection as my example ensures that I will continue to grow until the day I go to meet Him.

I know that this is a self improvement forum, but sometimes I think it's a DON'T improve yourself forum with the answers I see all the time. You all should be more careful about the advice that you give. Many people will be inclined to take your advice at face value. Many people don't know how to read between the lines.

[JaredR]

"Accept yourself" doesn't mean you should extinguish all aspirations of becoming a better person. Accepting yourself is loving who you right now, unconditionally (the greatest type of love there is).

It is then, when you have love and compassion towards yourself, that growth begins. Once you accept where you are, you can take the next step forward. In fact, learning to love yourself when you have poor social graces seems to be the fastest track towards self-confidence and personal magnetism.

I'll use a quote from another website to help make my point (they do a very fine job, I'd say):

Self-acceptance is being loving and happy with who you are NOW. Some call it self-esteem, others self-love, but whatever you call it, you'll know when you're accepting yourself because it feels great. It's an agreement with yourself to appreciate, validate, accept and support who you are at this very moment, even those parts you’d like to eventually change. This is important...even those parts you'd eventually like to change. Yes, you can accept (be okay with) those parts of yourself you want to change some day.

[AlexG]

Being youself is the most misunderstood advice EVER.

Being your BEST self is the key. To be your best self you have to go through alot of improvement.

If you don't like who you are now then you can change it. Nothing is set in stone.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by JaredR

"Accept yourself" doesn't mean you should extinguish all aspirations of becoming a better person. Accepting yourself is loving who you right now, unconditionally (the greatest type of love there is).

It is then, when you have love and compassion towards yourself, that growth begins. Once you accept where you are, you can take the next step forward. In fact, learning to love yourself when you have poor social graces seems to be the fastest track towards self-confidence and personal magnetism.

I'll use a quote from another website to help make my point (they do a very fine job, I'd say):

It's a very nice sentiment, but it's logically falacious. You are saying that you shouldn't just be okay with some aspects of your personality. You love those aspects of your personality, even the ones that make your life and the lives of the people around you more difficult. If you love something, then why would you want to change it? Before you can change something, you must recognize that it must be changed. Love is blind though. (Especially the highest form of love - agape love.) It blurs your vision so deficiencies become not so important.

How can you possibly love something that you want to change? How can you want to change something that you love?

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by AlexG

Being your BEST self is the key. To be your best self you have to go through alot of improvement.

If I am a curmudgeon then the best (or most pure) curmudgeon that I can think of would be Perry Cox on the TV Show scrubs. He is the best example of a perfect curmudgeon that I can think of*. So you are saying that I should be the best curmudgeon? Everyone hates Cox! I don't want everyone to hate me! I don't want to be the best jerk! I want to be the worst jerk! The jerk who is not very good at being a jerk. Not the person who is the best at being a jerk. I don't want to perfect jerkiness. That's what Cox does. He makes it an art! He teaches himself to become an even stronger jerk! It's very entertaining for a TV show, but I want to fight that! I want to teach myself to be LESS jerky! Not that I am a jerk. I just don't want to get that way.

If I have pessimistic tendencies, then being optimistic would be contrary to my being. I would by definition be trying to NOT be the best me that I can be, since I would have to increase the pessimism in me. I would have to embrace my pessimism to be the best pessimist that I could be. And I don't want to be that kind of person at all! I want to be an optimist!

*The most charismatic curmudgeon would be George Carlin. But I already stated that I am not funny. His humor makes him MUUUUUCH more likeable.

[SmartAlx]

Do you think that "accept yourself" means "know yourself?"

That would be something that I could get on board with because it would allow and encourage change. But I would not agree that "knowing yourself" is a synonym for "love yourself" or "be okay with yourself." Not that I think it's okay to hate yourself, but it's pretty obvious that "loving yourself" is not the same thing as "knowing yourself."

The problem is that if "accept yourself" is equivalent to "know yourself" then I do accept myself because as you read in the OP, I pretty much have myself figured out. But I don't accept myself. There are some things about myself that I want to change and knowing about them isn't enough. I need to complete the process of changing the most obvious deficiencies to be happy with myself.

[jenlili]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I know that this is a self improvement forum, but sometimes I think it's a DON'T improve yourself forum with the answers I see all the time. You all should be more careful about the advice that you give. Many people will be inclined to take your advice at face value. Many people don't know how to read between the lines.

I suspect the many who can't read between the lines don't hang around here much, if indeed they show up at all. So please relax about the advice "we all" give.

Can I ask you something though? Do you actually "try" to be funny, or "try" to have conversations? I'm guessing you mean you make an effort, when you aren't feeling especially conversational.

Forget funny. If you don't feel funny, then you don't feel funny. You're not required to make anyone laugh. If on the other hand you find yourself light-hearted on occassion and something amuses you, likely an observation or comment on it will make others smile.

I don't consider myself a funny person, though I occasionally say things facetiously, and find people laughing. Recently I sent an email to someone. I heard later that he read it out loud to the people he was with and they all laughed---people who have never met me think I'm funny, and I wasn't making a joke. I was just excited about something and it came through in my writing. It occurred to me that maybe they were laughing AT me and they don't think I'm funny, they think I'm roll-your-eyes-ridiculous. If I was feeling bad about myself, I could be pretty hurt or embarrassed right now. (Generally, it surprises mewhen I hear people laugh at something I say or do...well those over, you know, 5 or 6 years old.)

I've known curmudgeons---people who say what they think, have a fairly negative and cynical outlook, and don't necessarily make anyone laugh. They aren't jerks. They're intelligent and very interesting (the ones I know, I mean). You say you have friends, so you know, what's your problem actually?

Are you actually questioning the meaning of "accept yourself" or "love yourself"? I believe what that really means is to acknowledge that you are a good person, even if some of your personality traits aren't acceptable. It's that whole "you aren't a bad person, it's what you do that is bad" concept. When you learn that---"accept" that---then you can work to change what you do that is unacceptable.

[SmartAlx]

I suspect the many who can't read between the lines don't hang around here much, if indeed they show up at all. So please relax about the advice "we all" give.

I'm here. I've failed to read between the lines for 35 years, and I've been trying to take the "be yourself" advice that whole time.

Originally Posted by jenlili

Can I ask you something though? Do you actually "try" to be funny, or "try" to have conversations? I'm guessing you mean you make an effort, when you aren't feeling especially conversational.

I feel the pressure to be conversational or funny because I know the consequences of people not being funny or conversational. Just this last week the girls I hang out with were discussing some of the hot guys at the dance studio I go to. More than one guy there has no problem getting the girls interested, but can't hang onto them. These guys are (apparently - I don't know... they look average to me) very attractive. But they go on one date and ask the girl about her day. Talk about the food. Talk about the movie. And that's it. They can't talk. Same thing when they call the girl. The girl picks up and he asks, "how are you" and "how was your day" and that's it. No more conversation and the girls were telling us that they were thinking "why did you call me if you don't have anything to say? I have things to do." So even this really good looking guy who's a great dancer has trouble getting second dates because he is I quote from the girls "boring." I have the same problem, except I'm not a heartthrob. I can't even get the first date. Then there are the guys who are average looking, a little bit overweight, but very funny. Great at conversation. Always talking. Always telling stories. Always the center of attention. Always rude. Always hard to shut up. Always hard to get off the phone. Always interrupting people. Always butting in. Always obnoxious. And always the girls throw themselves at them.

Forget funny. If you don't feel funny, then you don't feel funny. You're not required to make anyone laugh.

Oh I sooooo beg to differ. You HAVE to be funny today*. There is just waaaaaaaaaaay too much funny competition for you not to try to be funny. If you aren't funny, then people don't want to be with you. They choose to be with the funny people. They don't call you. They call the funny person. And please don't say "if someone won't be with you because you aren't funny then you shouldn't want to be with them." I do want to be with them. Again, if I'm not with them, then I am alone because EVERYBODY wants to be with funny people. If anyone has a choice, they will always choose to be with the funny person. Always! Even when times are tough because the funny person makes hard times easier. People would even rather be with a funny person than a stable secure person. No one wants to be bored for the rest of their life. No one likes to hang out with a stick in the mud, even if they are safe and make good money. Funny/interesting conversationalists rule the world. And I want to be with people that want to be with these people. I'm not saying that I want to be one of these great funny conversationalists. I don't think it's realistic for me to rise up to their level. But I do want to improve myself enough so I'm not so awkward and I can be a part of the interesting conversations rather than just be a spectator.

If on the other hand you find yourself light-hearted on occasion and something amuses you, likely an observation or comment on it will make others smile.

But articulating something quickly before someone else does and before the conversation changes is practically impossible for me. Someone else always beats me to the punch. I value courtesy and I hate hypocrites so I never interrupt people. People interrupt me all the time so I can never say what I want to say. I ask them not to interrupt me and that apparently makes me a jerk. What kind of a world do we live in that allows rudeness, but doesn't allow... ah, nevermind. I want to stay on topic.


Pleeeeeaaaase don't tell me that I care too much about what other people think. I care precisely because of what I described in the OP. You HAVE to care! This is exactly the purpose of this discussion. If you don't care about what other people think, then why would you endeavor to be a good person? The pride of altruism is just not enough of an incentive for people to behave.

*Especially with the girls. Guys are shallow in that they want a hot girl. Girls are shallow in that they want a funny guy.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I am socially awkward. I am quiet. I don't know what to say with people. I constantly put my foot in my mouth. I am inhibited. I am introverted. I am shy. I am not boisterous. I don't have a lot of stories to tell. I don't know any jokes. I'm not naturally funny. I don't drink. I don't like going to bars. I don't like sports. I hate my job. I hate being alone. People's instincts when they meet me for the first time aren't always good. I get jealous of people who have it easier than me. And I think it shows.

So, what SHOULD I do?

You think so many negative things about yourself. That is sad.

If I were you I would go into therapy. Simple as that. There you can learn to love yourself while growing in the courage and power it takes to be yourself.

[jtracy]

I don't beleive that you can't love what you want to improve. In fact you must. I want to have more money, for example. In order to do that I must love the amount of money I have and be very grateful for it. It is only when you are grateful for what you have that the Universe will want to give you something even better, and you can't be grateful for something you don't love.

What you need to do is to first of all accept who you are and then try to better yourself and overcome your deficiencies. It isn't a case of either/or.

I too am socially awkward. But I don't beleive for one minute that this is who I really am. It is the person who my childhood "education" from my parents has predisposed me to be. It is not my core personality, and I don't beleive it is anyone's. I think that almost by definition, the "real" you is the person you want to be. And the only thing preventing you from being that is your own beleifs about yourself.

I also beleive that doing things just because other people think you should is not being the real you. What you are looking for is friends that can love you the way you are, instead of the way they would prefer you to be. After all, they aren't going to be perfect either. It's really important to be seen as the real you, but that does involve removing the masks of bad self-beleifs and letting who you really are shine through.

I beleive that people always want to improve, because improvement is what life is all about. If you don't desire to improve, you aren't really alive. Improving yourself often doesn't mean adding new parts to yourself, it often is just a case of removing the mask of fear and negative beleifs about yourself, so that your real self can shine through.

[Acting Like Godot]

Your difficulty is not so much that you don't like yourself; but that

(a) you have pre-conceived (and false) notions of how you must or ought to improve and develop; and

(b) you find it very difficult to improve and develop according to your notions.

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I am socially awkward. I am quiet. I don't know what to say with people. I constantly put my foot in my mouth. I am inhibited. I am introverted. I am shy. I am not boisterous. I don't have a lot of stories to tell. I don't know any jokes. I'm not naturally funny. I don't drink. I don't like going to bars. I don't like sports. I hate my job. I hate being alone. People's instincts when they meet me for the first time aren't always good. I get jealous of people who have it easier than me. And I think it shows.

Basically you're an Enneagram Type 5. Don't waste your time trying to become the life of the party. You'll never make it.

At your very best, what you WILL become, is someone who is extremely wise; very insightful; highly intelligent; quirkily innovative; deeply perceptive; and a great expert at whatever area interests you .

In other words, you're not cut out to become Oprah Winfrey. She's just another Enneagram Type, that is all, and it's not yours. Whether they are at their best or at their worst, Enneagram Type 5's simply do not become comedians, entertainers or socialites. At their best, they do become:

Albert Einstein
Stephen Hawking
Bill Gates
John Lennon
Gary Larson
James Joyce
Agatha Christie
Jane Goodall
Bobby Fischer
Stephen King
Clive Barker
Friedrich Nietzsche
Vincent Van Gogh

(These are some famous Type 5's).

Let me guess - you're a pretty profound kind of person, right? You think intensely about Big Questions right? You're very analytical and you see a lot of things which people don't spot, right? Generally you're very quiet ........ until the topic becomes one of your pet areas of expertise, and then you speak very assertively, confidently, you can't stop, and everyone just gets kinda wowed by you, right? You probably have one favourite thick book - either the Bible, or the Encyclopaedia Brittanica, or the collected essays of Bertrand Russell - which you simply can't help reading and re-reading again and again right?

Type 5, Type 5, nyeah nyeah nyeah nyeah nyeah.

Love yourself, my friend. You're cool, in your own way. Start believing it. Start there.

[Acting Like Godot]

Oh here's another giveaway sign that you're a Type 5.

You write long posts.

[pianoperformer]

For once I agree with ALG.

I think you're being way too hard on yourself. Relax a bit! You're certainly not going to be very funny if you're worrying about all of this all the time. Work on what you want to work on, but don't try to force yourself to be a certain way that you just can't be.

What if you get a date by being outgoing and funny, but then the girl finds out that you aren't really that way? Are you going to fake your way through date after date? Through marriage?

You'll find your social niche. Perhaps find different company, with whom you feel more comfortable.

[Jarrod]

When you 'be yourself' then you will not have no friends, you will attract different friends. Unless you already are acting like yourself in which case there is no change and you will have the same friends.

In order to 'be yourself' you have know who you really are beyond the fear, joy, anger and aspirations. As you figure out more and more who you really are then how you 'be yourself' will change.

'Knowing yourself' is a more important goal before 'being yourself'. If you don't know yourself you may as well just be whoever as it is all the same.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

They say that you should be yourself and accept yourself for who you are... that you shouldn't try to be someone that you aren't. If I followed that advice, then I would have no friends.
I am socially awkward. I am quiet. I don't know what to say with people. I constantly put my foot in my mouth. I am inhibited. I am introverted. I am shy. I am not boisterous. I don't have a lot of stories to tell. I don't know any jokes. I'm not naturally funny. I don't drink. I don't like going to bars. I don't like sports. I hate my job. I hate being alone. People's instincts when they meet me for the first time aren't always good. I get jealous of people who have it easier than me. And I think it shows.

So, what SHOULD I do? Accept myself for who I am, or take some classes to better myself so I can become more likable? Shouldn't I try to overcome my deficiencies? Should I just accept that I am not funny, or should I practice trying to be more funny?

I am sure that you all will say that bettering yourself is a good thing to do. But I believe that you will also say that you shouldn't try to change the core of your being. Don't change the real you. But these are the core of who I am.

No they aren't. At the very least, the bolded items aren't "the core of who you are", they're skill deficiencies. And I strongly suspect that a lot of the others are personality traits evolved to compensate for lack of those skills.

Being funny is a skill. Like all skills, some people seem to take to it more naturally, but it's still a skill. Ditto making conversation.

I say: Develop the skills. Then, if "the core of who you are" chooses not to use those skills, no harm, no foul. But it's nice to have the option.

I recommend Toastmasters. It's not directly tailored to casual conversation-making skills, but it ("Table Topics" in particular) trains you to think quickly on your feet. Performing evaluations is handy too - you get to comment on other people's speeches and focus on why they were funny, or moving or engaging. Most importantly, it helps you to develop confidence.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Oh I sooooo beg to differ. You HAVE to be funny today*. There is just waaaaaaaaaaay too much funny competition for you not to try to be funny. If you aren't funny, then people don't want to be with you. They choose to be with the funny people. They don't call you. They call the funny person. And please don't say "if someone won't be with you because you aren't funny then you shouldn't want to be with them." I do want to be with them. Again, if I'm not with them, then I am alone because EVERYBODY wants to be with funny people. If anyone has a choice, they will always choose to be with the funny person. Always! Even when times are tough because the funny person makes hard times easier. People would even rather be with a funny person than a stable secure person.

Well, you are successful at being funny! This paragraph sure made me laugh and laugh!

Listen, your questions were about what you should and shouldn't do, and my answer is: there is nothing at all in the world that you should and shouldn't do. Your christian upbringing might have your first response to that be: "well, no, of course there is a moral and an immoral choice -- of course you should be good and shouldn't be bad!" But that is just not the christian way, after all. What your god gives to humans is free will, and the ability to make those choices. He has some very strong preferences, but the choice is up to you entirely. Of course there are consequences! Even if you don't believe in god. *Shoulds* are not about choice, they're about manipulation, pressure, and feeling bad. Your god does not want you to feel bad.

So, what to do with that free will when you don't like the way you're being? You change it, if you choose to; but as long as you're resisting that way of being, you are keeping it in existence. As long as I tell myself, "I hate my social anxiety!" I am holding onto it. D'oh! As long as I tell myself the story of how awkward and humorless I am with people, the more and more awkward and humorless I am with people. The worse it gets the worse it gets. The key to freedom from that downward spiral is: accept yourself exactly as you are and exactly as you're not. (And by the way, the key to freedom is also: Accept others exactly as they are and exactly as they are not!). None of this means you have to condone any particular behavior; it does not mean you can't have a preference to grow in a different direction. It does mean that if you take a look at yourself boldly, accept what is there, and then choose your way of being in the next moment. Choose with love for yourself, rather than condemnation, and you'll be going forward joyfully. On the other hand, if your choices is filled with judgement (I am BAD for being this way -- I must change and be GOOD), then you are taking over god's job. You might want to surrender judgement and adopt evaluation, so that you can be more effective in being what you want to be. I'm not saying you should, though.

Very important to remember is that Acceptance does NOT equal resignation.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

But I believe that you will also say that you shouldn't try to change the core of your being. Don't change the real you. But these are the core of who I am. And they define someone that I do not want to be.

The core of who you are is a bright, shiny, amazing, aware human, acting perfectly in alignment with your values and purpose. Look deeper, my friend.

What is attractive to people? People being WHO THEY ARE. People who allow their core to shine through. I'm not talking about being attractive in a bar, I'm talking about *true* attraction. It's not your lack of funny that puts people off, it's your lack of acceptance.

Here's what I believe: those parts of myself I don't like so much, serve to bring me closer to source, serve to help me grow toward God. It is only through accepting those parts that I'm able to honestly move forward. I could easily cover over those parts of myself - indeed, I did for many years! Drinking, etc. - but I'd rather UNcover them, accept them and me as being perfect for where I am today, then move on. Acceptance doesn't equal stagnation.

If you're using Jesus as your example - do you really think he was concerned with whether or not people liked him? Do you think he worried about if he was funny? I think he was too busy living his purpose to be concerned about it.

[Angela]

You know, that's so... Jesus is your role mode, but he wasn't exactly known for cracking people up, was he?

[Parthon]

Wow. This entire thread has blown me away.

First I would say read - Self Acceptance vs Personal Growth. It explains the acceptance vs growth mindset in a new way that may allow you to come to terms with the strange duality.

Second I would ask: Who are you? I mean, you've told me all about your personality problems, your past experiences and all the labels you've put on yourself, but you haven't actually told me who you REALLY are. What you can write down in a post is not who you really are.

Thirdly: I can't help but see many undercurrents in your writing. You know this, and you know that. You've learnt all the whatevers and hoodeedoos! You've got it all figured out and know exactly how it all works, except, in reality, it doesn't work for you at all. Now it can't be something you don't know, because you know everything right? Think about that for a bit. If it's not working then you don't know it all. Now if you don't know the answer, and everything you know doesn't work, then nothing you know is actually important, and nothing you know makes a difference. Everything you know, is worthless!

That means it's time to look for something completely new. Something so different to what you already know it will blow your socks off. You have to ignore everything you learnt for now and start from a blank slate. Don't worry, it will still be there when you want it, but you can't use it from now on, at least as long as it doesn't work.

Thinks I can see you looking at:
Dissolving the illusion of past and future. You talk about becoming something else, getting better and other future things. The reality is that there is no future, and there is no past, outside of what you can imagine. When you project into the future you are projecting from right now into there, and it's a realm of make believe where nothing is real. If you want access to true power to really make a difference, you will have to become present and focus on right now, instead of later, or before.

Dissolving the illusion of other people. You talk about other people as if they are fundamentally different from you, that there's something they have that you don't. You also think if you can just be enough like the other people around you, that everything would be better. This is also false. The reality of it is that all people are pretty much the same, just minor amounts of uniqueness and a whole lot of similarities. Most people have the same capabilities and the same potential. Some might be a little smarter, some might be a little more athletic or a little more adept, but it's what we do with it that really makes the difference. Other people can't give us anything we don't already have, everything we need is within us already, and the best way to get ahead is by using our natural birth gifts inside us. If you compare yourself to someone else you will always come up lacking in some area, that's just a part of life.

These are two great places to start, and there's lots of information all throughout Steve's blog about these.

[ArthurHung]

Do what you like to do that involves people. If you're an introvert and like to read all the time, join a book club. Actually, you could just keep joining groups and clubs of whatever, it doesn't even have to be anything related to things that you enjoy doing. The more interaction the better. You can always quit and even if you burn some bridges it doesn't matter. It's not like you say the wrong thing and then people are going to hunt you down. On the other hand, with this "group/club hopping" you might find something you like in a certain activity that you never knew you would like about it.

I also find that phrase "you have to be funny" hilarious. You don't "have" to do anything to be happy. And that's what it's more about, being happy, than being more social. If you were happy all the time, would you care so much about being good with people? Probably not. Clarify what you really want.

[z1freeride]

In my experience, a lot of my emotional pain (from being alone on weekends, having no friends, etc...) were from desires that could only be fulfilled by other people.

If I need to be accepted by others, then anxiety usually occurs because there's no telling whether or not I'll be accepted. If I focus on desires that I know I can fulfill and not worry about being accepted, then I tend to be happy.

I would suggest this article: How I Stopped Being Needy

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Parthon

Thirdly: I can't help but see many undercurrents in your writing. You know this, and you know that. You've learnt all the whatevers and hoodeedoos! You've got it all figured out and know exactly how it all works, except, in reality, it doesn't work for you at all.

Oh, this is just another typical Type 5 problem.

Actually, it also aptly describes the 2nd half of Albert Einstein's career, as he fought in vain to disprove the new, weird science emanating from the quantum physicists.

You know this, and you know that. You've learnt all the whatevers and hoodeedoos! You've got it all figured out and know exactly how it all works, except, in reality, it doesn't work for you at all.

LOA still rules! Classical physicists are damned.

[Lauxa]

Really enjoyed this thread, especially the part where ALG piped in with the enneagram. I am also a Type 5 and also wanting to do something to become more entertaining.

As far as acceptance goes, I think you have to accept yourself before you can really know yourself. Some parts of yourself may be hidden away and buried too deeply in shame and denial. Once you begin to accept yourself, these buried pieces can come to light so you can deal with them.

The other thing you have to accept is your wants and desires. That points your way for where you are going. So you have to accept both yourself and your desire to change yourself simultaneously.

[Acting Like Godot]

Actually I don't understand why some people seem to place so much value on being funny. Seriously, if you could only choose 2 or 3 of the following attributes, which would you choose?

To be:

(1) rich
(2) smart
(3) sexy
(4) compassionate
(5) courageous
(6) wise
(7) disciplined
(8) peaceful

or

(9) FUNNY.

I need to think about that myself. But let me assure you that No. 9 is definitely not going to be among my top choices.

[jenlili]

Hmmmm. You know what SmartAlx? I think you are in fact a very good conversationalist. I think you are just trying to talk to the wrong people.

*Especially with the girls. Guys are shallow in that they want a hot girl. Girls are shallow in that they want a funny guy.

What is this? I'm not shallow. I find that guys who can't be serious are annoying. Sure I like to laugh. I also like to have the occasional deeper conversation. Not all men are shallow either. Trust me, if they only want the hot girl...well, do you assume then that any man who's wife or girlfriend is only mildly attractive to have "settled" for her.

You got a ton of feedback on your post. Start with that. You have something to say. You are interesting. And funny. (Didn't I tell you that it surprises me sometimes when I make people laugh?)

You know what struck me about your posts in this thread? I had the impression that you were in high school. The impression that you were required to spend time with people that you don't really like. That you think they're having a better life than you, so you want to be like them.

Then it finally sunk in. Wait! did he say 35 years? Dude. Find a different place to hang.

Someone in this thread suggested joining clubs/groups. Craigslist has several opportunities listed.

[The David]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

They say that you should be yourself and accept yourself for who you are... that you shouldn't try to be someone that you aren't. If I followed that advice, then I would have no friends.

If that advice is being given in the spirit you are receiving it, then it is indeed terrible advice. Worse than no advice.

There isn't really a set of personality traits you can call the 'real you'. You are probably changing all the time. You can make drastic changes if you choose. You'll still kind of be the same person, but you won't be the shyness and whatever else you don't like. You'll be the person controlling the changes. So be who you want to be, not who you are. And if you find you can't change certain things, then you can re-evaluate if it's really worth it or not. Self-acceptance should be a last resort.

I, too, get annoyed at the wishy-washy self-acceptance I see in a lot of people. I'm not sure if it's on these forums because I tend to ignore it when I see it.

You're at a good point in your 'personal development' if you're willing and ready to change things. Even if some people discourage your attempts. Take it from someone who is undergoing some big changes right now and is enjoying all of it.

Edit: And I can't overemphasize the importance of a good role model.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Jesus Christ is my example and his perfection as my example ensures that I will continue to grow until the day I go to meet Him.

In case you didn't notice, Jesus Christ wasn't particularly known for telling jokes either. That takes nothing away from him.

[Cyllya]

I am socially awkward. I am quiet. I don't know what to say with people. Being nervous about putting my foot in my mouth makes me less inclined to talk. I am extremely introverted. I am shy. I am not boisterous. I never have stories or jokes that I feel are worth my effort to tell, much less someone else's attention. I'm not naturally funny. I don't drink. I don't like going to bars. I don't like sports. I hate my job.

And I have friends. (And a boyfriend I'm quite fond of even though he is quiet and non-boisterous. He doesn't tell jokes or funny stories much either.) So I don't think the above qualities are you're problem.

I roll my eyes when people suggest I should become more outgoing. I'm interested in personal development so that I can achieve what I want to achieve, not so that I can be more normal or spend more time in bars.

(I should try to be less socially phobic though....)

[SmartAlx]

Thank you all for the advice. You have given me, if nothing more, a good entertaining read. I might look into toastmasters. I've heard of them before. Thank you Keith. I wonder how awkward I would feel there when I first start going. Probably 1000 times more awkward than when I first started salsa.

EDIT: HEY! There's a "Dance and Toast Masters Club" nearby!!! Might be perfect. They do meet at a steakhouse though. I'm a vegetarian. LOL. The "next" meeting (which was a few days ago) featured a Salsa teacher giving dance lessons. I never heard of her before. I don't think she's a well known salsa instructor in my town.

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Basically you're an Enneagram Type 5. Don't waste your time trying to become the life of the party. You'll never make it.

I did say that this ideal was unrealistic for me.

At your very best, what you WILL become, is someone who is extremely wise; very insightful; highly intelligent; quirkily innovative; deeply perceptive; and a great expert at whatever area interests you.

Salsa. Hopefully Architecture - my career.

In other words, you're not cut out to become Oprah Winfrey. She's just another Enneagram Type, that is all, and it's not yours. Whether they are at their best or at their worst, Enneagram Type 5's simply do not become comedians, entertainers or socialites. At their best, they do become:
Albert Einstein
Stephen Hawking
John Lennon
(These are some famous Type 5's).

Some good examples. But they don't live the lives that I would want to live. In fact NONE of your Type 5 examples led lives that I want to live. What Type is Orson Scott Card? His is the life I would like to parallel.

Let me guess - you're a pretty profound kind of person, right?

Are you patronizing me? LOL

You think intensely about Big Questions right? You're very analytical and you see a lot of things which people don't spot, right?

Yes.

Generally you're very quiet ........ until the topic becomes one of your pet areas of expertise, and then you speak very assertively, confidently, you can't stop, and everyone just gets kinda wowed by you, right?

Nope. When these topics of conversation come up, I still clam up because my frame of mind is still in wallflower mode. I can't talk when boisterous people are around. They overshadow me, even when they are speaking my language.

You probably have one favourite thick book - either the Bible, or the Encyclopaedia Brittanica, or the collected essays of Bertrand Russell - which you simply can't help reading and re-reading again and again right?

Nope.

Type 5, Type 5, nyeah nyeah nyeah nyeah nyeah.

I admit that you got a lot right, if not everything. I will carefully explore this Type 5 thing.

Originally Posted by ArthurHung

If you're an introvert and like to read all the time, join a book club. Actually, you could just keep joining groups and clubs of whatever, it doesn't even have to be anything related to things that you enjoy doing.

I am an introvert, but I don't want my hobbies to be individualistic. I want them to be cooperative and involve other people. I used to read all the time. I used to watch TV and movies. I used to play video games. I had a lot of hobbies that were comfortable. For 20 years that's what I did, and guess what resulted? A full bookshelf but no life. No memories. No friends. Then I found salsa, and started to try to peek out of my shell by going out to salsa clubs then hanging out with some salsa assistants.

It would be great if my social life was surrounded by salsa. But even though my best friends (who I like) are salsa dancers, when we go out (which is a few times a week) guess what? We don't talk about salsa. We talk about the same things that everybody else talks about: life. And I really enjoy listening to these conversations. I do like these people. In fact I feel extremely blessed at having them in my life. They are actually nice. Just rude and insensitive sometimes. I wish I could join in on the conversations, but I can't. I don't interrupt people, and I wouldn't know how to do it even if I was willing to compromise on my beliefs.

I love salsa so much. I've tried dozens of hobbies in my lifetime and salsa is the first hobby that really has taken root. And my best friends are salsa dancers. We all assist the salsa classes at our studio, but because the lesser experienced assistants are more charismatic, they are being groomed to becoming full instructors, while road blocks are being built (by the leaders of the studio) in front of me becoming a full salsa instructor. In fact, one of my friends has already made it to instructor. Although he's a tango instructor not a salsa one, but it's only a matter of time. They aren't overtaking me because they are more capable, but because those in charge like them better. I am a philosopher of salsa. No one at our studio knows salsa like I do. Even the full instructors. And I do teach a good salsa class. When I do get to teach a class, not only do the students learn faster with me, they also enjoy the class. I do have some fun things to say in my class. I can keep a class entertained. But because of politics outside of class, I am held back. I can only help people on an individual basis. It seems that I will never make it to instructor because of my personality. And that cuts me deep.

Originally Posted by Angela

You know, that's so... Jesus is your role mode, but he wasn't exactly known for cracking people up, was he?

I really believe that Jesus was probably extremely charismatic, and quite possibly funny. Even if the things attributed to him weren't funny as written down and read from The Bible. In context, if he delivered them properly, he might have been very funny. Remember, none of the books were written by Jesus. The ones about him were written by his followers, who might not have been all that charismatic themselves.

[jenlili]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Actually I don't understand why some people seem to place so much value on being funny. Seriously, if you could only choose 2 or 3 of the following attributes, which would you choose?

To be:

(1) rich
(2) smart
(3) sexy
(4) compassionate
(5) courageous
(6) wise
(7) disciplined
(8) peaceful

or

(9) FUNNY.

I need to think about that myself. But let me assure you that No. 9 is definitely not going to be among my top choices.

Lauxa's comment was on becoming more entertaining, which doesn't necessarily mean funny, it means not boring, and "rich" isn't a personality trait, yet it's the first thing you listed---interesting.

I might not pick funny if I could only have two or three, but it definitely makes my list. I get enormous satisfaction (gratification?) when I get an unexpected laugh.