If I followed your advice, I would have no friends.

[jenlili]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

In case you didn't notice, Jesus Christ wasn't particularly known for telling jokes either. That takes nothing away from him.

Jesus did tell a lot of stories though, and he drew big crowds. He must have been pretty entertaining.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Actually I don't understand why some people seem to place so much value on being funny. Seriously, if you could only choose 2 or 3 of the following attributes, which would you choose?

To be:

(1) rich
(2) smart
(3) sexy
(4) compassionate
(5) courageous
(6) wise
(7) disciplined
(8) peaceful

or

(9) FUNNY.

I need to think about that myself. But let me assure you that No. 9 is definitely not going to be among my top choices.

Are you serious?

#1 wise (remember Solomon?)
#2 disciplined (to have a good personal life)
#3 funny or entertaining (to have a good social life)

Funny may not be the most important. But saying that it's not the most important so it must not be all that important is like saying that food isn't all that important because air is #1 and water is #2. Food is still necessary to live. And being funny is still pretty much necessary to live in the social world today, especially for a guy.

[jenlili]

I am an introvert, but I don't want my hobbies to be individualistic. I want them to be cooperative and involve other people. I used to read all the time. I used to watch TV and movies. I used to play video games. I had a lot of hobbies that were comfortable. For 20 years that's what I did, and guess what resulted? A full bookshelf but no life. No memories. No friends.

So when you read those books or watched those shows, did you think of things to say about them and wish you had someone to discuss them with? Salsa dancing is fine, and yeh, keep on going. But joining a bookclub as well could be really good for you. (Depening on the club, of course.) We have a very quiet club member in my bookclub, and at least once during each meeting, we'll stop and ask her directly what she thinks about this or that. Then we wait quietly while she forms her thoughts and gives us a reply. Meanwhile, I just blurt things out, and if someone says, "what do you mean?" I mumble, "Ummm, I don't know."

Just be sure while you're joining all these toastmasters and bookclubs and things, to give yourself plenty of alone time for the rest and recovery (recharging?) you need, or you'll end up in a loony bin!

[marinik]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Actually I don't understand why some people seem to place so much value on being funny. Seriously, if you could only choose 2 or 3 of the following attributes, which would you choose?

To be:

(1) rich
(2) smart
(3) sexy
(4) compassionate
(5) courageous
(6) wise
(7) disciplined
(8) peaceful

or

(9) FUNNY.

I need to think about that myself. But let me assure you that No. 9 is definitely not going to be among my top choices.

Well ALG if I am already 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 I would choose 1,2,3. Nobody is nothing or are they? HMMMMM I have to think about this one, but definetly 1,2,3

[carenkh]

Actually I was thinking about this thread this morning, and I realized Jesus probably was funny - I just think he spent no time worrying about if he was funny or not.

I was just reading this revived thread (there are a lot of those lately! I'm glad.) and in it, someone wrote "you're better off cultivating your strengths rather than attempting to cure your weaknesses". I thought that might apply here; it's what I was trying to say originally.

SmartAlx, from what you've written, I think you're very interesting and engaging! Of course, I've always had a thing for architects... I do think it's a question of your trying to fit in with people who aren't suited to you. When I think of what has worked for me, in terms of *not* being a wallflower... Well, I don't really hang out with loud, boisterous people! I hang out with people who will listen. People I have stuff in common with... parenting, or our values. People who want to connect at a deeper level than you'd find in a bar. It was developing those deep connections first, that allowed me to develop the skills so I can go into a bar and chit-chat and be funny. I just choose not to. People whose first values are sexy and rich... not my type. But I can attend parties now, and hold my own. Even if a lot of the time I'm sitting and observing! I don't try to be the life of the party, but I do start conversations with people if they look interesting. I chat one on one at most parties I go to, I'm not in the groups that are always laughing uproariously. I don't feel the need to be, because I love my life as it is. I have several friends who love me deeply and thoroughly - I don't need to come away having everyone like me.

But interestingly enough, as I've developed and grown and found my niche... most people do like me. I have interesting things to share, because I live an interesting life. I doubt most younger, shallower (sorry - can't think of a better word) party-goers would find it interesting, but that's OK. I don't need to dumb down my life.

I'm not writing this saying "you should be like me!"; your post just got me thinking about my process and where I am with things.

[Acting Like Godot]

SmartAlx:

The first point you must understand is that almost all Type Fives are very interesting people. This is due to the combination of two separate aspects of their personality:

(1) they tend to be interested in many different things;
(2) they tend to pursue their interests to rather extraordinary lengths.

As a result, in the Enneagram system, they are often known as the "Investigators". The combination of (1) and (2) is that a Type Five will often turn out to be a great expert in several totally different kinds of activities.

If you ever come across a top-class wildlife photographer who is also an award-winning poet and also a great culinary chef and also an awesome pianist who's composed soundtracks for movies, well, in all likelihood, he will be a Type 5.

That, to me at least, makes Type 5s very interesting people. In all likelihood, since you are Type 5, you are also a very interesting person.

Now, the "problem" with many Type Fives is that they do not initially appear to be very interesting. This in turn is because:

(a) they are slow to open up to other people whom they only know casually. Therefore other people often do not get a fair chance to discover how interesting the Type 5 is. For example, it is entirely possible for a Type 5 to attend a party, meet 45 people, and none of them will know that he is a top-class wildlife photographer; an award-winning poet; a great culinary chef; OR an awesome pianist ... when in fact, he is ALL of these things.

(b) Type Fives don't like talking, unless they really, really know what they're talking about. This is the flip side of their "expertise-gaining" tendencies - they instinctively stay away from any activities in which they are not an expert, and in which they have no desire to gain expertise.

Why Type Fives are often awkward in social occasions is that on such occasions, there is usually a lot of casual, trivial conversation. People are just talking for fun, and they will chat about whatever topics come to mind.

A party is an unnatural environment for Type 5s. The loose, undirected, unfocused nature of the conversation makes them feel ill-at-ease; because there is no depth in the conversation; there is nothing to really learn or master; there is no obvious challenge to take on;

..... in other words, there's nothing for the Type 5 to either contribute expertise to; or gain expertise in.

I mentioned Einstein as an example of Type 5. Just try to imagine him at a party. If the topic was "how's the weather"; "have you ever heard the joke about the chicken who tried to cross the road?"; "what do you think of Paris Hilton's new hairdo" etc etc ....

.... you just KNOW that Einstein is going to be at a loss for words. He's going to be a wallflower. He will appear to be socially inept.

But this doesn't mean that he's not interesting. (As a matter of fact, it must be fair to assume that Nobel Prize winners or world-famous experts in any field must at least be prima facie interesting).

If only the topic would shift to the creation of the universe, or the very nature of space and time, or how the existence of nuclear bombs necessitates the establishment of a new world order for maintaining peace ........ well then, you'd see how interesting Einstein would become.

[Acting Like Godot]

Oh, by the way, I'm Type Five too. Consequently, if you meet me casually at a party, you are likely to think that I'm quite boring (if you noticed me at all). These are some of the things which I, being a Type Five, would be unlikely to reveal to you at a party:

(1) I am an award-winning poet and I'll have a new book out next year;

(2) I'm working in the most innovative, cutting-edge areas of the global investment banking industry;

(3) I am only in my mid-30s, yet am somewhere in the top 0.5% of all income-tax paying citizens in my country;

(4) I perform witchcraft and magick; and I also do hypnosis and meditation;

(5) I'm one of the best-known bloggers in my country and am regularly cited / quoted / interviewed / studied by academics, newspapers, political parties, NGOs and students, for my views on social, economic and political issues;

(6) On LOA and IM, I -definitely- have more fascinating stories to tell, than Steve Pavlina;

(7) I am a chess master;

(8) I used to be a criminal prosecutor, and have met many thieves, rapists, paedophiles; robbers, white-collar criminals, drug traffickers; wife beaters; gang members; computer hackers; and smugglers of human beings, endangered animals and illegal software etc.

Even if you knew all the above, you wouldn't find me funny. Because I don't tell jokes. But still, you might find me a little interesting.

[Acting Like Godot]

(9) I'm quite a self-taught expert in psychology. Personality classifications are just one of the many things I know well, in this area. (My other areas of interest are abnormal psychology - especially those mental conditions that criminals often show up with).

[Acting Like Godot]

There is no escape, SmartAlx ....

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I am a philosopher of salsa. No one at our studio knows salsa like I do.

.... only a Type 5 would philosophise about salsa. And certainly, the person who knows salsa best at your studio, is quite likely to be a Type 5.

That's because of the natural "expertise-building" tendencies of the Type 5 personality. Knowledge, insight, competence, skill ... these are the hallmarks of the Type 5 personality. Not joke-telling.

You cannot escape your inherent nature. It shows, even in the nickname (forum handle) you have chosen for yourself.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

They say that you should be yourself and accept yourself for who you are... that you shouldn't try to be someone that you aren't. If I followed that advice, then I would have no friends.

I am socially awkward. I am quiet. I don't know what to say with people. I constantly put my foot in my mouth. I am inhibited. I am introverted. I am shy. I am not boisterous. I don't have a lot of stories to tell. I don't know any jokes. I'm not naturally funny. I don't drink. I don't like going to bars. I don't like sports. I hate my job. I hate being alone. People's instincts when they meet me for the first time aren't always good. I get jealous of people who have it easier than me. And I think it shows.

So, what SHOULD I do? Accept myself for who I am, or take some classes to better myself so I can become more likable? Shouldn't I try to overcome my deficiencies? Should I just accept that I am not funny, or should I practice trying to be more funny?

I am sure that you all will say that bettering yourself is a good thing to do. But I believe that you will also say that you shouldn't try to change the core of your being. Don't change the real you. But these are the core of who I am. And they define someone that I do not want to be. I want people to be happy when they see me. I want them to miss me when I am gone. I want people to enjoy my presence when we go out. Realistically I accept that I'll never compete with the most naturally charismatic, but I can surely still become more likable than I am now.

Well, luckily for me I do NOT follow your advice. I do try to be more likeable. I try to hold conversations when I don't know what to say. I do try to be more funny. I practice filtering my thoughts so I don't put my foot in my mouth so much. I do practice making myself better. And because I do NOT accept myself for who I am, I do have friends and I expect that my list of friends to grow. Thank you Christianity for showing me the healthy way of being. Jesus Christ is my example and his perfection as my example ensures that I will continue to grow until the day I go to meet Him.

I know that this is a self improvement forum, but sometimes I think it's a DON'T improve yourself forum with the answers I see all the time. You all should be more careful about the advice that you give. Many people will be inclined to take your advice at face value. Many people don't know how to read between the lines.

I bet you are not shy. You are not being shy right now. I doubt that shyness is a real part of you. I think it was learned.

You know who you are when you are relaxed and you act naturally and happy. When you are shy you feel shyiness, some fear and tension. And that does not let you to act natural. It does not let you to be you.

I think you have a point about the idea of "DON'T improve yourself forum". Sometimes what is improvement for someone is going backward for another. So it is important to see all comments like an advice that was made with the best intention and probably under a different context or even culture.

However in this case I must disagree. You define a dichotomy as "Be yourself vs improvement". You can be yourself and you can improve at the same time. So the way you define extremes is not right.

[Bruce Achterberg]

SmartAlx,

You're certainly intelligent, so if you zoom out from your perspective, it should be pretty easy for you to look at this thread and see that you're getting some very interesting reactions from the forum members. Notice how they seem a bit defensive?

Looking at your post, you're essentially saying, "I'm this, I'm that, and I need to be X, but all I'm doing is focusing on that I'm not X, and nothings happening." Your lack of results doesn't surprise me. This "frame" that you're approaching things with will also cause some people to react to you the way they are. Your external reality will match your internal reality, and usually in a very practical way (no law of attraction necessary, although if you're watchful for long enough, you'll certainly see some uncanny things if you're at least open to seeing them in your reality).

Essentially, you seem to be feeling pretty bad, or at least, not good, and from that place of feeling good, you're not sure what you should do and nothing you do seems to work.

For that, I'd recommend these posts:

• The Sock (Blog)
• The Sock (Blog)
• The Sock (Blog)

If I was to guess, I'd say you've been engaged in conscious, deliberate personal development for less than a year. It seems you just need to experience a bit more before. Keep at it, and try to relax. All the things you're talking about aren't as important as they seem if you can't be happy now. If you expect to be happy only once you've got all those things, well, suffice to say life has some interesting lessons awaiting you. That's not to say, "oh, I know more than you and you need to learn"; what I'm saying is that, right now, from your perspective, you simply haven't experienced enough of the conscious growth path to be able to see what you need. Your solutions may be right in front of you, but you'll tune them right out.

For more on that concept, here are some more links you may like (they may not be the big, "everything is solved" fix you're looking for, but they should give you some perspective; if you blatently disagree with them, accept that, and give them the benefit of the doubt for a while).

• Lessons From Ron Lewison (1938-2008) (Blog)
• Lessons From Ron Lewison (1938-2008) (Blog)
• Lessons From Ron Lewison (1938-2008) (Blog)
• YouTube - Aligning With Your Veritable Fortune - Abraham / Esther & Jerry Hicks

Enjoy life, don't try to fix it. The word "fix" is actually misused and means to "attach" something; e.g. to "fix" it to a wall. You don't want to fix life to a wall; you want it to flow harmoniously, smoothly, and have interesting curves and bends! (Kind of like a woman's body. )

[Angela]

Originally Posted by carenkh

Actually I was thinking about this thread this morning, and I realized Jesus probably was funny.

You're right -- it was pretty funny when he said, "Hey, Peter, I can see your house from here!"

[pianoperformer]

@alg: Where do you get information on these types? Type 5 sounds extremely similar to how I am. (interested in science, programming, music, philosophy, love to research, etc)

@SmartAlx:

I was similar to you about a year ago. I was extremely shy, didn't feel comfortable talking to people, approaching people, initiating conversation, etc. I still have trouble with that, but am a lot better than I was a year ago.

It sounds like you have some friends, but just don't know how to get into the conversation. I've noticed that if you don't attempt to get into the conversation, people will rarely include you in it. Some will try, but you can't really rely on that.

I've been noticing lately that if you actually start initiating conversation, even if it's a "hi how's it going," they are much more willing to open up to you. Once you start talking, it's really not that difficult to continue.

No, you don't need to be funny. Sometimes you will be, and other times you won't. I hate small talk, but love deeper conversation, so I'm not one to be telling jokes or anything, though sometimes it happens, especially when I'm willing to joke about myself. Despite that, I'm in a social fraternity, and live with about 25 other guys, and feel perfectly comfortable with it and am able to join in just about anything.

Just act naturally, and work on feeling more comfortable in social situations. If you do, you'll loosen up, and may even be funnier, but not necessarily.

[z1freeride]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Actually I don't understand why some people seem to place so much value on being funny.

In my opinion, I think people value funniness because their brain follows these steps:

1. I have a need for approval from others.
2. People who are funny meet others' approval and are usually well liked.
3. I will impress others by being funny.

I'm not trying to dumb things down here...It's just that I realized a few months ago, that I had a lot of "needs" (need to impress, need for approval, etc). These "needs" are really hard to fulfill because they can only be fulfilled by someone or something else. Therefore, it is not responsible for me to place desires that I can't fulfill myself. So, to be personally responsible for my life means that I should rid myself of these needs.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by carenkh

I do think it's a question of your trying to fit in with people who aren't suited to you. When I think of what has worked for me, in terms of *not* being a wallflower... Well, I don't really hang out with loud, boisterous people! I hang out with people who will listen. People I have stuff in common with...

The thing is, people that I meet, those who would get along with never get a chance to find out how compatible we are. There is one girl who just entered our group, via meeting me. Interesting... I always bring new people to the group and the group always takes over our relationship. She and I are EXTREMELY similar, same values, same beliefs, same personality, even both Architects, yet she doesn't know it because all of the loud and boisterous people are so much fun and I just sink into the shadows. The loud and boisterous people are very quick to add new people to the group and make them come out of THEIR shell, but they ignore me now and get in the way of the new people finding out about me.

I know what you are thinking. Don't bring the new girl into the group. The group are my friends, so why wouldn't I want them meeting? And secondly, since I am quiet and don't know what to say (do you remember this story I told you about the beautiful guys only getting one date because they are boring?) there is NO way that I would get these compatible people into my life at all. I tried to get this one girl to come to church. She said no... to me. But she did go to church with US yesterday, because the boisterous guy asked her.
Why are you all so quick to make me dump my best friends???

[z1freeride]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

The thing is, people that I meet, those who would get along with never get a chance to find out how compatible we are. There is one girl who just entered our group, via meeting me. Interesting... I always bring new people to the group and the group always takes over our relationship. She and I are EXTREMELY similar, same values, same beliefs, same personality, even both Architects, yet she doesn't know it because all of the loud and boisterous people are so much fun and I just sink into the shadows. The loud and boisterous people are very quick to add new people to the group and make them come out of THEIR shell, but they ignore me now and get in the way of the new people finding out about me.

I know what you are thinking. Don't bring the new girl into the group. The group are my friends, so why wouldn't I want them meeting? And secondly, since I am quiet and don't know what to say (do you remember this story I told you about the beautiful guys only getting one date because they are boring?) there is NO way that I would get these compatible people into my life at all. I tried to get this one girl to come to church. She said no... to me. But she did go to church with US yesterday, because the boisterous guy asked her.
Why are you all so quick to make me dump my best friends???

One of the hardest things to change is thousands of years of female mating preferences. Either do what it takes to learn what women find attractive or find really desperate women.

People aren't going to change to meet your expectations. It's all up to you.

[Angela]

I am socially awkward. I am quiet. I don't know what to say with people. I constantly put my foot in my mouth. I am inhibited. I am introverted. I am shy. I am not boisterous. I don't have a lot of stories to tell. I don't know any jokes. I'm not naturally funny. I don't drink. I don't like going to bars. I don't like sports. I hate my job. I hate being alone. People's instincts when they meet me for the first time aren't always good. I get jealous of people who have it easier than me. And I think it shows.

To paraphrase Steve Pavlina, successful people just don't think or talk this way. Okay, that might be a direct quote.

People aren't as interested in others who are funny as they are in people who are fun -- people who turn towards what they want rather than dwelling in the House of What I Don't Want. The very qualities and conditions you are trying to avoid are the ones you are boldly creating in your life for yourself and for others, by thinking chronically negative thoughts.

Sure it's a great idea to acknowledge what's not working for you, but if you keep your focus there (and thinking about how to get away from XYZ is a perfect and powerful way to keep your focus on XYZ) "not working" is what you'll keep alive and thriving.

So, what do you want? Turn towards it!

[ar81]

Originally Posted by Bruce Achterberg

SmartAlx,

You're certainly intelligent, so if you zoom out from your perspective, it should be pretty easy for you to look at this thread and see that you're getting some very interesting reactions from the forum members. Notice how they seem a bit defensive?

Are you attacking me???

Certainly I have found that people in the net react very defensively very often. It is not a particular behavior here.

This forum is one of the less defensive places I have found. This is why I am still here.

[mercuryrising]

This has been a very entertaining thread.

On the point about self-acceptance:

When you resist something, you increase its power. Consider two people pushing against each other. If one pushes more, the other must push with the same force in order to stay balanced. We go through this battle with ourselves all the time.

That's what self-acceptance is about. You quit resisting who you are.

Regarding your faith, God designed you exactly as you are with a purpose. I would say that purpose is to worship the Lord as only you can. It certainly wasn't that you would walk around depressed about what you are not.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by ar81

I bet you are not shy. You are not being shy right now. I doubt that shyness is a real part of you. I think it was learned.

It was learned in early childhood.

In the Enneagram system, there are nine major types. All the personality types are shaped by negative sorts of early childhood experiences. Different sorts of negative early childhood experiences give rise to different sorts of personalities.

Sounds dreadful, but that's the Enneagram for you.

In the case of Type 5, the negative experience was neglectful parenting. The father / mother wasn't there when the child needed help; or the father / mother didn't give much attention to the child even when the child wanted it.

The result is that early on, the Type 5 child gets it into his head that:

(1) Relationships are unreliable; people won't be there for you when you need them. Therefore it's best to be very cautious about who you have a relationship with. This in turn ultimately leads to the common Type 5 problem of being shy; socially awkward; withdrawn etc;

(2) You have to learn to take care of yourself and survive on your own, because your parents won't necessarily be there to do all that for you. Eventually this manifests in the Type 5's psychological tendency to acquire skills, knowledge, capability and expertise in everything they do. It is driven by the need for self-survival.

Redemption for the Type 5 ultimately lies in omniscience. Their ultimate satisfaction in life comes from understanding their reality so deeply that they can move without fear in it, and confidently shape it with their thoughts, vision and insights. (Oh, no wonder I'm so into the LOA ).

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

When you resist something, you increase its power. Consider two people pushing against each other. If one pushes more, the other must push with the same force in order to stay balanced. We go through this battle with ourselves all the time.

That's what self-acceptance is about. You quit resisting who you are.

And let it knock me over? No thank you.

Your metaphor is backwards. Consider one person being stronger. He naturally pushes harder. The other person must push hard just to KEEP the balance. If the stronger one says, "you are pushing too hard so I'm going to push even harder," THEN your situation comes up, but ONLY after the stronger person tries to offset the balance. It is the person who pushes to offset the balance that is in the wrong. I only resist what would knock me over. I resist to KEEP the balance.

If a circumstance, a personality trait, or a person is TRYING to push me over and I do not fight it then I will fall over. I HAVE to keep fighting or I get run over. Is this so hard to understand?

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by z1freeride

In my opinion, I think people value funniness because their brain follows these steps:

1. I have a need for approval from others.
2. People who are funny meet others' approval and are usually well liked.
3. I will impress others by being funny.

I'm not trying to dumb things down here...It's just that I realized a few months ago, that I had a lot of "needs" (need to impress, need for approval, etc). These "needs" are really hard to fulfill because they can only be fulfilled by someone or something else. Therefore, it is not responsible for me to place desires that I can't fulfill myself. So, to be personally responsible for my life means that I should rid myself of these needs.

That's not the problem with me. I don't need approval.

I think it's a lot simpler than you all are making me out to be. All I am saying is that I am noticing that I can't get to know compatible people because my funny buddies get to know them first. The new people gravatate to my buddies and they forget that I am the person who introduced them. They never even get the chance to get to know me because they allow their time to be monopolized. I just need ammunition so I can compete and give the compatible people a chance to get to know me.

Also, if I'm so interesting being a Type 5, then why do I have so little to say on a date, or at starbucks or Chili's with friends? The Type 5 that is being described here sounds like a person who knows a lot of stories, who does a lot of things, who lives life to the fullest. That's not me. I don't have a lot of stories to tell. Crazy things don't happen to me. Don't forget that girls get bored easily. You have to keep them entertained in order to have the time for them to get to know you. If you aren't entertaining, and there is someone in their life who is entertaining, they will get closer to the entertaining person and they will not allow themselves to get close to you, even if you might be just like her. Shoot! Even if you are soulmates. Something else has to step in and put you two together. Maybe it's a supernatural power. Or maybe it's your willingness to stand up and fight for her and to sweep her off her feet. Who knows is she is a romantic or pragmatic? I know I'm a romantic, and I want to marry one, so I'm inclined to be romantic. Maybe she is pragmatic, but I'd be a fool to not try to win the girl the boys are taking from me right now.

If none of this is true for you, then just replace "you" with "I" and "me". This is all true for me.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by ar81

I bet you are not shy. You are not being shy right now. I doubt that shyness is a real part of you. I think it was learned.

Please. I'm anonymous here. There isn't anything at stake. No one's going to interrupt me. And I have time to think out what I am going to say. And I can correct my mistakes and add something that I forgot. It's impossible to be shy in a forum like this. It's certainly difficult to put your foot in your mouth here.

Still, you are right. I used to think that I was shy. Then I started to take up salsa. When I was just learning I feared asking a girl to dance. Not because I was afraid of her saying no. I was afraid of her saying yes. I was more worried about her finding out that I wasn't a good dancer. Her thinking I was trying to pick her up was a lot easier to handle. Now the only girls I am afraid to ask are the very very advanced dancers and the occasional advanced salsera that I have feelings for.

But I am still quiet. I'm not sure that it was learned though. I have always been quiet. It REALLLLY is my nature. All of the other parents would comment how well behaved I was. I have also been philosophizing about life since I can remember. Even when I was 5 I thought heavily about the world. My earliest memories are of me trying to figure out the world.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Also, if I'm so interesting being a Type 5, then why do I have so little to say on a date, or at starbucks or Chili's with friends? The Type 5 that is being described here sounds like a person who knows a lot of stories, who does a lot of things, who lives life to the fullest.
That's not me. I am overwhelmed by life. Not the other way around.

You see, within the Enneagram system, there are nine major personality types. But within each type, there are different levels of development (about nine).

Level 1 is a person who has undergone a lot of personal growth and development, and who has become the best that his personality type can be. Whereas Level 9, the bottom level, is the personality in its most unhealthy form.

What you will find is that every personality type, whether at its best or at its worst, is still distinctive from other personality types.

For example, a Type 5 at his best becomes a creative genius. But a Type 8 at his best becomes a powerful leader.

A Type 5 at his worst becomes suicidal. But a Type 8 at his worst becomes murderous.

Now, you are evidently not a Level 1 Type 5. However, you probably aren't at Level 9 either. You're probably somewhere in the range of Level 4 - 7.

As I had said much earlier, your difficulty is that you're trying to develop and improve yourself in directions which are not natural for Type Fives. You want to make yourself a clown, an entertainer, a barrel of laughs. This is possible, but very difficult, because it isn't inherent in you.

And in any event, even if you succeeded, you'd have to succeed in it in the Type 5 way - by meticulously learning the skill; rehearsing it; reading a book of jokes; memorising 20 jokes; practising them in front of a mirror etc etc.

And yet you will never feel completely at ease, because in the end, you will still have a Type 5 problem that you just are not the kind who will be able to go out there and build quick rapport with 25 strangers at a party.

Now OF COURSE I am not saying that you should not seek to develop and improve yourself. BUt I do say that you seek to develop and improve yourself, along the lines which are natural for a Type Five. Similarly, I would tell everyone to develop and improve themselves along the lines which are natural for their OWN personality types.

For you to seek to be an extroverted joke-teller is as painful as for an extroverted joke-teller to be forced to shut up; be quiet and just listen to other people.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

And let it knock me over? No thank you.

Your metaphor is backwards. Consider one person being stronger. He naturally pushes harder. The other person must push hard just to KEEP the balance. If the stronger one says, "you are pushing too hard so I'm going to push even harder," THEN your situation comes up, but ONLY after the stronger person tries to offset the balance. It is the person who pushes to offset the balance that is in the wrong. I only resist what would knock me over. I resist to KEEP the balance.

If a circumstance, a personality trait, or a person is TRYING to push me over and I do not fight it then I will fall over. I HAVE to keep fighting or I get run over. Is this so hard to understand?

This is easy to understand. However, I don't think that the metaphor of two people fighting against each other to stand up is such a good metaphor. It might be better applied within a relationship where you get upset at a certain behavior of your partner that you don't accept. In this instance, there is only you. You have a trait you are resisting--shyness or social awkwardness. It isn't pushing against you, it merely exists in you and you are resisting that it exists. There is no one pushing back at you but yourself. You have some sort of fear, it seems, of not having friends if you embrace your lack of social skills.

The idea of acceptance, even within a relationship with another person, is that when you stop resisting, the other side will also stop resisting, not push you over.

You need the acceptance of how you are in this current moment to create the fear-free, safe environment of love and acceptance that brings the freedom for you to grow and find out what you have beneath the fear and the shyness. Since you have church-going friends, I presume you are Christian and must be familiar with the following verse about love and fear:

There is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath punishment; and he that feareth is not made perfect in love. - 1 John 4:18

When you embrace your shyness and your social situation with acceptance and love, your fears around your social awkwardness will disintegrate, because, as it says above, love dispells fear, and when you are no longer afraid of the consequences of your poor social skills, you will naturally begin to discover who you are beneath those fears.

[SmartAlx]

No. I'm telling you that lacking the ability to compete with entertaining people DOES push me back. IT is causing the imbalance and I DO have to fight in order to stay upright.

No matter how often you say that stopping my resistance will rebalance the situation won't make it so. I can only balance the situation by resisting it. I know that if I stop resisting I will fall over because I can FEEL the sheer amount of force that the other side is applying. If I am the first to let go then the instant I do I will be run over. We would have to stop resisting at the same time in order to keep the balance, and this is not what would happen. The other force is just not concerned with the balance. It is actively acting to knock me over.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

No. I'm telling you that lacking the ability to compete with entertaining people DOES push me back. IT is causing the imbalance and I DO have to fight in order to stay upright.

You still don't get it, huh. You are Type 5. Skill is your middle name. If salsa is your game, then be its master. THIS is how you seduce your lovely women:



.... by sweeping them off their feet. Literally.

NOT with telling jokes, NOT by trying to be more boisterous than the next boisterous clown. Gaaaaaah.

[SmartAlx]

Too bad it doesn't work that way.

A song only lasts 4 or 5 minutes. A conversation hours. And even if dancing did work, my competition knows how to dance too. And after the dance, they can hold the conversation.

This is exactly why I do NOT like LOA and IM: It is all about believing that you will succeed, instead of trying to succeed. It encourages people to stop trying.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

And even if dancing did work, my competition knows how to dance too.

You dance better. You teach better. You said so yourself.

"No one knows the philosophy of salsa better than I" ... Let the Five out!

Now since I have mentioned that I am a chess master, let me direct you to a piece of chess advice I have recently given to our friend Steve Pavlina, who is aspiring to play better chess. The advice is here.

The advice is simple. If your opponent is very strong in the endgame, do not enter into the endgame with him. Kill him in the middlegame.

And for you .... If your sexual competitors are very good at being boisterous & funny, do not seek to be more boisterous and funnier. Respect yourself! Instead, Beat Them By Being Better At What God Made You Good At.

And here is a famous quote from another Type 5:

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

You are a fish who can swim well, but won't. Instead you want to climb a tree and compete with joke-telling monkeys! And later you will wonder why you fail.

[SmartAlx]

So. It doesn't matter. As long as the girls are entertained, they don't mind someone who only dances at 85% of the level of someone else. Give a girl the quality dance of her life and then an extremely fun dance with someone closer to her level, even if it's sloppy, she will always return to the person closer to her level. The pressure isn't there.

My skill (not only in dance) makes women feel threatened. These guys make sure the girl feels safe and secure. I don't have that ability. If it's a skill, I have been trying to achieve it for years. But women still feel threatened.