Father Daughter relationship

[Create]

Hello. I will try to be brief - hopefully I am posting in the right manner for this forum.

I am 19 years old and rotating week to week from my mothers house to my father's house. My father has a girlfriend, they have two children.

Recently (March and April 2006) I have recovered from drug addiction. With the help of my parents (both of them) and a rehab center I still attend today, I have kicked the habit. I have started shcool and work again. My parents plan to help me pay for some University costs and an appartment loan for at least my first year; I myself must contribute to this contract financialy, and dedicate myself to my studies. No more drugs, either .

My problem resides in the harsh dynamic that exists between my father and I. My father is a very busy, high-achieving person. I have seen him suffer through depression, burnout and have an affair. I am very different from him - our values are different, but we both have the same goals for my studies and near future. The fact that I am still living with him, his girlfriend and their two toddlers, and that I depend on him for the first year of my University studies - it weighs down on our relationship.

My father often accuses me of being inconsiderate towards "others" and of living blindly to my psychological disorders. My father would like me to "get a grip" on my "problems". I do have slight anxiety, but when I look at it myself I feel I can deal with it. When I do something my father does not agree with, he accuses me and my fundamental being of either disorder or great disrespect. He is the only person who make me question my mental health and my perceptions. I pointed out to him that adults in my life, when they don't agree with me, say so but with respect and in a non-intrusive way. I never am accused of having a "problem" or of being "blind" or "a child".

I am therefore very confused and sad. I wish me and my father could treat each other like equal, respecting adults. But the financial ties as well as my past depression and drug addiction looms over us and my father cannot trust me. I feel like unfortunatly taking a break in our relationship because it make me so unconfident and so self-conscious. I do not enjoy asking myself if am I crazy nor do I think I can trust myself after our debates.

Please, impressions, similar sotries? Fathers : how do you define your relationship with a young adult son or daughter? Are your financial ties wearing down on your blood ties? Do you think I should stop seing a man who tells me I am "incoherent" or "blind to reality" ?

Thank you so much, sorry about the lenthyness of this post.

Concerned Daughter

[Logodae]

Create,

I'm sorry that your father isn't emotionally supportive of you. Whether or not he can or should "trust" you, he shouldn't be tearing you down the way he is. And you certainly don't sound "crazy" or "blind"... it sounds like you perceive this situation quite well. This relationship isn't good for you. If you can take a break or otherwise get a little more distance, I think you should.

-Morgan

[mattsonn]

Hi Create, I've had "rough spots" in my relationship with my Dad too. In my experience, there's no easy fix. I'm not asserting that things can't be fixed--I just haven't been able to. Old patterns die hard.

We do get along just fine with zero problems as long as I'm at college and not living in the house. So I agree with Morgan on this one.

Hey, and also, while I was thinking this over, I realized that I got along with my Dad best when I was in high school. That was when I was thriving the most, and when he had the most respect for me. Fights between us were few and far between during that time. So if you can be a source of strength for your Dad, instead of one more thing in his life to worry about, then that will go a long ways towards healing things. That's what I'm trying to do by pulling my life back together, though I'll be the first to admit that it sure isn't easy.

[Dharma]

Create,
Take your post above and copy paste into Word or another editor. Change all the proper nouns to reference yourself, and then reread it.

Example:
My father often accuses me of being inconsiderate towards "others" and of living blindly to my psychological disorders. My father would like me to "get a grip" on my "problems". I do have slight anxiety, but when I look at it myself I feel I can deal with it.

Now, with all the references turned back to you:
I often accuse me of being inconsiderate towards "me" and of living blindly to my psychological disorders. I would like me to "get a grip" on my "problems". I do have slight anxiety, but when I look at it myself I feel I can deal with it.

This is you talking to you. Your father sounds like a very polarized part of yourself that you have a hard time accepting. See if you can get some insights into yourself and post some questions if you need to.

[Create]

Thanks Mattson and Morgan ... I feel already less alone. What a good idea to try and see how I can be a source of strength for my father instead of perceiving myself as another thing he must worry about. I will reflect on your posts.

Dharma, that is a very interesting perception change you suggest. I tried it and I can see one major thing : I am insecure about my own mental health and I really, really want to be sure I am a good person to others. the opinion of other people and the impact I have on them has always been an issue to me.

Of course this leads me to beleive I feel attacked in many conversations because my father points out weaknesses in myself or insecurities I am particularly vulnerable to. I know a great part of staying calm in those situations is to assume those parts about myself and know them better than anyone else; so no one can use them as weapons against me.

But I don't think this is all about me and my insecurities or desires. After much though I wrote a "transaction contract" for me and my father, defining my boundaries in discussions and promising to respect his own boundaries. I asked my father to verbalise his own needs in such a "conversation contract" so that we both may exchange as adults and on a less visceral level. I emailed him my suggestions today, I really hope he will reply and have not been insulted.

I'm still pretty shaken up though - any other thoughts?

[mattsonn]

If I were to send such a contract to my father, he would think that I was completely crazy. Lol, I almost don't even want to imagine his reaction, but I'm sure it would be one of utter disbelief.

The thing with my father is that there are two issues with him. First of all, he's the dominant type of guy and he loses his temper sometimes. That issue has nothing to with me. And he's fully aware of it, though I've never seen him make a real effort to work on it.

The second issue is that there is a very deep part of his brain that's contempful of weakness in other people. And he sees weakness in me, largely because of I've struggled academically in college. When I'm away from home, he's relatively understanding and supportive. But at home, the contempt comes through and he acts like a total d**k to me sometimes. Even the rest of my family sides with me on that.

But that's the issue that he's either unaware of, or refuses to think about. His opinion on the problems between us is this: "I've done a TON of stuff for you in bringing you up, and while I may not always be the best dad, as long as you're financially dependent on me, you better put up with me and not talk back."

So that's why I don't think he would like such a letter from me. Hopefully you get a positive response. Let us know how things go (assuming it doesn't get too personal, which it probably will...)

[Christian223]

I have a problem similar to yours, but viceversa, i speak like that to my father. He has a very deep psicological problem of cronic anger, he has allways mistreated his family and himself, so whenever i try to speak to him about this problem he says that i am attacking him and gets defencive, but i dont try to make him feel bad, its just that i think that he has had this problem for too long time that he needs to end it soon as posible, otherwise he would keep hurting everyone around him, specially the ones who love him, and we are so tired of it, and he seems too...

The thing is that we tell this kind of things because we want a change for the good of everyone, and we may not know exactly how to guide you, but we do it in the only way we can think of, so, i think you should try to think and consider his concerns, see if he may be right or not, i wish my father would do that, but he doesnt want to even consider it, he is just too defencive, and things wont change without his effort to change those problems that he has on his personality, so we all keep suffering as long as he has this attitude...

Anyway, i think that you have allready put a huge effort on changing, you just have to keep it up, and you are not crazy for doing that, i think that it shows the oposite, just keep it up. Good luck.

[yanisincere]

Hi,Create!
Maybe it is better to spend more time to communicate with your father,not debating but comminicating, try to learn what is his pains and worries. Everybody has his or her own problem , their probloms are sourced from their different experiences and background . So it is helpful to konw what your father has suffered and is suffering, individuals need love and support from others . Your father also need others' especially his daughter's suppport and care. I have this kind of problem with my father , I think the weaknesses on me are all oriented from him, however, when I am growing up , I come to konw my father, I learn more about this pains and unhappy experinces to get known he had faced so many problems to solve , which of them is not controlable and very annoyed . He needed helps! Previously ,when I saw he is in depression , I also looked worried , I was not worried about his trouble (because I am too young to understand throughly ), I was afraid that I myself was influnced by such low spirit. But , forturnately , later on , I communicate frindly and peacefully with my father , Our relationship got better.

[Logodae]

Yani,

Children shouldn't have to support their parents. That's the opposite of how things should go.


Create,

I think your "transaction contract" is an excellent idea, and I hope your father accepts and honors it.

[ReallyGoodIdeas]

Hi Create, I reckon Yanisincere has something here. You could read your Dad's comments as him crying out for help and understanding. Maybe he doesn't know how to ask nicely, but he seems to be complaining that you're not paying attention to him.

Maybe you could have a conversation with him where it focusses on him, not you. Let him talk about his stresses and concerns. I'm sure you're not the only thing he worries about!

Mind you, like the others said, distance for a bit can also be cleansing. Allows you to come back calmer.

Good luck, and congratulations on your recovery!

Hazel

[Create]

wow so many good ideas , and not one mention of "you need to get psychological help to get over this hump" ! (Yes I am insecure about that...I realise it now.)

What marked me the most is what Hazel and yanisincere highlight together :
- spending some time simply communicating with my father as a person; not as an authority figure or an obstacle
- realising that maybe his "impact on others talk", although intimidating to me (Why won't these "others" come talk to me? Am I that scary? ) is really about him and his needs in the relationship. Very important to remember, in order to humanise my father and our adult-to-adult-relationship.

Thanks Mattson and Christian 223 for reminding me of how grateful I can be for having a father deeply immersed in psychology and managing skills - he does not have problems of anger or deep-set close minded-ness - I think our lack of communication resides more in the projection of his own stresses and worries onto me and my highly flammable quality! He really wants our communication to work. Because I have not learned how to care for his vulnerabilities since they are not explicitly expressed (i.e. "I am sad" I am mad") I tend only to feel my own feelings in our exchanges and this makes me feel weak and out of control. Alright, i'll try and have more normal exchanges with him, not debates, for a while.

You guys have been very helpful! I'm very grateful.
Claire

[Matthew Shea]

From reading your posts, Create, I get the impression that your father really does want the best for you, he's just got an insensitive, demanding way of expressing it, evidently due to a lack of respect. The trust issue definitely seems like a factor, too.

For the first issue, I would suggest that you start to command respect. Don't defer to him on anything. Remember you're an adult now and can take full responsibility for your actions. Make him look at you and treat you like that adult. In other words, when he says something hurtful or disrespectful, don't just internalize it. Immediately confront him about it and let him know exactly what you're thinking at that exact moment. For this to work, though, you have to be confident about what you're saying. Completely accept your feelings, know why it is you're feeling them and that they're completely valid and tell him "Hey, wait a minute. I'm hurt by that/That's not right/etc and here's why..." Don't let him change the topic, shrug your comments off or shove it back in your face. Make him restate his comment, state his assumptions and/or explain further. You may be in for a few good battles this way, but it will get the point across that he needs to treat you as an equal. In time, hopefully those battles will help to reshape your relationship with him in terms of mutual respect and hopefully even friendship.

The trust issue will simply take time to solve, but you can reassure him by communicating that you're taking definite steps to put the bad parts of your life behind you and succeed in the future. Whether it's breaking off contact with the people who led you in that direction, avoiding certain situations or simply attending regular meetings, keep him informed of your path to continued sobriety and of your successes in life, no matter how insignificant. Your continued successes in that regard should help you gain back his trust.

Finally, don't be afraid of conflict, but use it in the right way. Conflict is not necessarily bad where it is used to air out people's differences and come to a solution. In time it will pass and, given that a mutually agreeable solution was reached, you'll both be better, stronger people for it.

Best of luck to you.

[Nicketas]

Oh Freud, where are you now?

[ashwin]

Hi Claire,

You seem to be a very balanced and thoughtful person, in touch with yourself. However, sometimes it takes time to believe in ourselves and our strengths. You do seem to be heading there already. Just be patient and accept your strengths, then it would not hurt you if your father or anyone put you down.

As for me, my father has always been as a cynical, sarcastic and shallow person, incapable of showing (feeling?) genuine concern, and there are still trust issues. However, after many years and learning experiences later, I can suggest a few points.

Adjust your expectations: I have found that while we crave the acceptance of our uniqueness, we do not accept the unique qualities / limitations of others. We expect them to be perfect as per our standards and the same time expect them to accept us for who we are. Understanding, and then adjusting, to a tolerance midset is hard for both parents and children.

Choose your battles: Matthew's post on confronting is excellent ! By all means, one should vocalize and not internalize. However, choose your fights. A rude remark about a chore left uncompleted and a sweeping generalization about your entire being are on entirely different scales. I always refer to Aristotle's famous quote on anger at such times. Also realize that sometimes you can let some of the irritation simply pass esp with Pt 1 in mind.

Increase external activities: Focussing on external activities like good grades, projects and assignments, helping others / volunteering, hobbies, relationships, pets, plants and so on will help you to grow out of the present limitations of the environment.

I also reiterate what others have said about understanding your father's background and context, maintaining a distance at times and accepting yourself first.

Hope this helps.

[Michael Chui]

Let us know when your father responds to that "conversation contract". I'm curious about how it turns out.

[Matthew Shea]

Ashwin's advice about picking your battles is right on track. You definitely want to limit yourself to the more important stuff.

[Lauxa]

Create,

You say your father often accuses you of being inconsiderate. I don't know if you are or not, but often young people have no idea how much work it takes to run a household, especially one with two toddlers. I have two toddlers now, and I assure you I had no idea! You might find that such gestures as making sure your dad knows where you are going and when you are coming back or helping out with the cleaning chores or offering to do some babysitting could go a long ways to smoothing the tension. Maybe you could suggest cooking a meal together or helping wash his car or some other useful activity that will demonstrate that you are thinking about being thoughtful towards him as well as give you some "normal" time to just hang out together.

Good luck, and please let us know how it goes!

[Eli]

Create
What I do know is that the relationship between a father and daughter is very special. HE is the first man in her life. For the child the bond in her heart is very strong and meaningful. When this bond is damaged in any way there is deep hurt but any relationship that is not good for growth and a healthy spirit should be ended for atleast for a time for healing. Your recovery from addiction is your primary concern at this point. The road from addiction is a very difficult one to travel. Any distractions will take you back out and I feel you have heard this before. There is no reason to ever use again. not any. I know, I'm a friend of bill W. Good luck. Peace

[JoannaC]

I am new here, so I hope it is okay that I just jump in. I have had similar issues with my father. My parents divorced when I was very young, and I thinkmy father wrote off several aspects of my life on the theory that my mother would handle it. I also thinkhe has very different expectations of what constitutes our relationship. He knows I feel that he treats his other children with his second wife differently, and that I resent that. But he has been able to dismiss these concerns by persuading himself that I am "too sensitive" and that it is his job as my father not to "humour" me when I am being irrational. It is very frustrating. Just today, I called him after not hearing from him for three weeks, and he said 'oh, I was wondering what happened to you and when you would call.' I pointed out that he could have called ME also, and he laughed and was all well, which comes first, the chicken or the egg. What has helped me gains ome perspective on things:

1) Understanding where he has come from. I truly think most parents do try their best. It's just that he has different needs/expectations/values. I once got really hurt when he took his other kids out for someone's birthday and didn't invite me. I was mostly raised with my mom's close family, and the idea that you would do something like celebrate a birthday and invite some people but not others would be unthinkable. But his family is very dysfunctional, and that sort of thing happens all the time. So to him, inviting only certain people is normal and not something people even think about. Realizing that he does not behave hurtfully on purpose made me a little more at peace.

2) Stop comparing. I drove myself nuts by comparing what I felt the other kids got in terms of time/money/effort versus what I got. I drove myself nuts comparing the way my mother treated me versus the way he treated me. Finally, I had to realize that a) he has raised his other kids to expect less and demand less, so their needs are easier to satisfy and they feel satisfied with what I consider to be a very superficial type of relationship and b) my mother does focus more time and attention on em than he does. But rather than futiley trying to demand the same attention from him, it is better to just focus on being grateful for having my mother. In fact, I told her that I was grateful and I wanted to be a better daughter to her and do more. She said she did not need me to 'do' anything, but I know it meant something to her that I expressed that and that I asked. I feel very close to her right now and am lucky to have her in my life.

3) Take money off the table. That can be hard when you are young and poor, but if you can find a way to get a loan, part-time job or some other means of support, I bet it would really lower your stress level. Is he paying for stuff with my half-sister that he didn't pay for with me? Yes. Will she get a cushy graduation present while I got nothing? Yes, and that still does hurt a little. But he is NOT going to do that for me at this point. I can't make him do it. And I have found where my father is concerned that when I expect less, I give him fewer openings to disappoint me, so anything nice he does is just a bonus.