TRYING to think positive?

[DEEJ]

I think I’ve realised that there is not much point in forcing yourself to and trying to think positively and its more effective to just be the watcher of your thoughts and then naturally positivity and peace come forth... What do people think? I feel a lot of resistance to letting to of controlling my thoughts because I’ve tried to 'Hold myself together' and forcefully change myself for all these years... Its like something in my mind saying I can't let go and stop controlling completely but I reckon this is what the best route is to a positive, peaceful mind that isn't fighting and resisting itself all the time like mine seems to be. What do people think?...

[Alexjstrandberg]

YESSS! The mind is a dualistic fear producing machine so it doesn't matter if you try for positive or negative because none of it will help you. Freedom and peace will come from not thinking, which ironically is where the best come in and flow through you.

[Jarrod]

I agree.

The interesting thing is the moment that you stop trying to rearrange the mind with the mind you discover something outside of the mind. This can see the mind and penetrate the depths of thoughts, without thinking.

[DEEJ]

What is the aim with watching / witnessing. Should I try and ALWAYS watch my mind or only when in a negative pattern or when I decide its a good time to watch?....

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by DEEJ

What is the aim with watching / witnessing. Should I try and ALWAYS watch my mind or only when in a negative pattern or when I decide its a good time to watch?....

Watch always.

Sometimes in life we have to think (like doing school work, other work, or solving problems that require mental analysis). In those times you think in a concentrated manner. Every other time watch.

The purpose is to break free from the thoughts. From the free state we can see them and learn about how they influence our lives. They no longer control our lives. From this state we can also find a different type of happiness (and peace).

[DEEJ]

So when engaged in any sort of activity thats the only time you stop witnessing? For example when speaking to someone or watching television, you can't watch your thoughts and at the same time concentrate on what ever you are concentrating on, right?

[SriniG]

Originally Posted by DEEJ

there is not much point in forcing yourself to and trying to think positively and its more effective to just be the watcher of your thoughts

I totally agree with this. Albert Einstein said, "No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." When you are trying to 'think' positively, you are still being in the consciousness of negativity. As long as you are in the consciousness of negativity, how can you be positive? It's like saying "I am a smoker and I want to quit smoking". As long as the person identifies himself to be a smoker, he won't quit smoking. But when he stops identifying himself to be a smoker, he has already quit smoking and there is no more any 'want' to quit smoking. 'wanting' and 'trying' are just deceptive illusions the ego creates to resist change. That's why they say, "What you resist persists and what you look at disappears." When you live with awareness and when you realise that negativity doesn't serve you anymore, it just disappears. You just need to watch and let go.

[SriniG]

Originally Posted by DEEJ

So when engaged in any sort of activity thats the only time you stop witnessing? For example when speaking to someone or watching television, you can't watch your thoughts and at the same time concentrate on what ever you are concentrating on, right?

I think you don't have to stop speaking to be a witness. Witnessing and speaking (or any other activity) are not mutually exclusive. You can actually witness yourself speaking. It's like, one part of you, the conscious/analytical part of you speaks, and there is another part of you, the pure awareness that objectively witnesses yourself speaking. You are actually made up of different layers of consciousness, the outer layer is the habits and automatic actions, in the middle you have your analytical mind that which plans, manipulates, etc., and the innermost core of you is pure awareness. When you can get to the core, you can really be a witness. I guess you can get there through practice

And witnessing is not concentration. Concentration is an effort, while witnessing is simply being effortlessly aware.

[DEEJ]

Thanks for the great replies...

I'm having difficulty with the idea of having to witness 'All the time.' It feels like if I’m trying to witness all the time, I’m putting effort in and it does get a bit confusing and I feel resistant. Is it not better to just witness when it feels 'Right' rather than putting effort into witnessing all the time?

With practice, will this witness perspective be automatic? I also meditate with Holosync daily and this i'm sure accelerates it...

[SriniG]

Originally Posted by DEEJ

I'm having difficulty with the idea of having to witness 'All the time.' It feels like if I’m trying to witness all the time, I’m putting effort in and it does get a bit confusing and I feel resistant.

I can understand this as I have gone through (and still going through) this myself. Yes, you will eventually get to a point where you witness 'all the time', but don't force yourself into that, it won't work. At any moment when you realise that you have stopped witnessing, just start witnessing then and there. Don't worry about the times you have not been able to witness, just be grateful that you are a witness right here right now. This witnessing thing happens in patches initially, but gradually it grows upon you.

With practice, will this witness perspective be automatic?

With practice, what actually happens is that you will get rid of all 'automatic' actions and start living spontaneously. The automatic actions and habits that overpower you will drop off and you will become a master. You will be able to do anything when you want to and stop anything when you want to, that is when you act from a level of pure, non-judgmental, effortless awareness. I hope you get what I mean....

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by DEEJ

So when engaged in any sort of activity thats the only time you stop witnessing? For example when speaking to someone or watching television, you can't watch your thoughts and at the same time concentrate on what ever you are concentrating on, right?

Watching TV doesn't really take concentration, it is a passive activity for the mind really so you can still watch.

It is only activities that require a lot of consistent high intensity concentration that you can't really watch your thoughts. Although I wonder if it is really just a matter of it being harder.

You can watch your thoughts while talking, it is just harder than doing it when not talking.

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by DEEJ

Thanks for the great replies...

I'm having difficulty with the idea of having to witness 'All the time.' It feels like if I’m trying to witness all the time, I’m putting effort in and it does get a bit confusing and I feel resistant. Is it not better to just witness when it feels 'Right' rather than putting effort into witnessing all the time?

With practice, will this witness perspective be automatic? I also meditate with Holosync daily and this i'm sure accelerates it...

You are trying to much to use the mind. It is a natural state of receptiveness where you see both inside and out. It is effortless to be in that state, it just takes a kick to get out of the thoughts/feelings initially.

Practice more, atleast 3 weeks before making any more decisions on it. Go for short walks where all you try and do is watch inside and out.

[reflections]

Different things seem to work for different people. I've a friend for instance who does quite well wrestling his mind into submission and focusing it like a laser on the positive. Now when I tried that approach I received the mental equivalent of a body slam to the mats. My way is to release, release, release and a natural upsurge of positive and empowering energy and mind comes to as a result of this. The method is different the results seem quite similar from where I'm sitting.

[DEEJ]

Originally Posted by SriniG

Yes, you will eventually get to a point where you witness 'all the time', but don't force yourself into that, it won't work.

Therefore I should only witness when it feels natural and I’m not forcing, as I said before? I'm guessing that with this, my witness consciousness will gradually, naturally grow without forcing it or getting pissed off with thoughts such as 'Am I doing it right' or 'Should I be witnessing now' or 'I must not be doing it right because I should be always witnessing' (as you stated I should Jarrod, what do you think?)

Eckhart Tolle says in PON to start paying attention 'As much as you can,' not all the time. Striving to do it all the time seems to turn into too much trying from my experience so far, particularly when engaged in some sort of activity...

Also, do you witness when feeling positive? Does not seem to be much point?...

Is it going to be effective to fluctuate with a part time witness this way, particularly witnessing when not engaged in activity, in resistance / negativity or in repetitive thought patterns? Will this help me become more positive and happy and eventually grow in witness consciousness?

Originally Posted by Jarrod

You are trying to much to use the mind.

Yes.

Originally Posted by reflections

My way is to release, release, release and a natural upsurge of positive and empowering energy and mind comes to as a result of this. The method is different the results seem quite similar from where I'm sitting.

By release, do you mean watch?

[Jarrod]

@Deej:

If you don't exercise your power to witness you won't get better at it.

Do it As Much As You Can.

This means if you can do it all the time, do it all the time.

You can only do it as much can if you always try to do it. You won't always get it, but you must always try to do it.

If it comforts you to know, I try my upmost every day to try to be aware in every moment. The only effect it has on me is increased peace, happiness, clarity and energy.

Being in awareness (witness) takes no effort, it is only effort that is required to get into awareness and not get taken away. If you feel tired or get headaches from trying to be aware then you are trying to watch with the mind. Which is not how it works.

Not only do you to have watch your thoughts, but also your feelings/emotions which you will most often feel in your chest area.

The sensation of being aware is better than any positive feeling, from it peace and joy naturally spring forth. The more you practice the more you come to know these. So yes just witness, often what we think is positive is not really as positive as you think it is.

If you only practice part-time then you are also practicing not being aware and consequently you will be working against your ability to be aware.

Whenever you see a thought arise, just let it go. Do not get pissed of at it or even think about it. If you do then you will just get tired, just observe it and let go.

[DEEJ]

Thanks.

I also feel that by constantly witnessing I will lose my ability to think and shape my perceptions of my world and myself, like I’m becoming vegetated - I want to consciously create myself and my life, and nourish myself with positive thoughts. Where does this fit into witnessing.... What about THINKING! Do you never think Jarrod? (lol)... Or am I seeing this wrong and conscious directed thought is separate from watching the automatic thought patterns?

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by DEEJ

Or am I seeing this wrong and conscious directed thought is separate from watching the automatic thought patterns?

Correct.

When you have to think, think deliberately. All other times watch.

I had a very interesting experience with this a few days back. I am a software engineer and I was programming. Exploring this practice I was seeing how aware I could be while working.

I have to think a word in order to type it, however I can type a word without thinking. So I found that I could think and then while my fingers were typing each word I could go back to watching. So I was switching modes back and forth within each second. I am doing the same thing now when typing, I find it very difficult.

It took me over 4 years to discover this . Using a computer without getting engrossed in it is quite difficult, so don't stress about it. Learn about being aware by practicing simpler activities like walking or eating.

For now, think when you have to think. Be aware every other moment.

[DEEJ]

Originally Posted by Jarrod

think when you have to think

Or when I WANT to think positive, fun, happy thoughts? Do you not consciously direct your mind to positivity and 'The way you want to think' even though you are the watcher? Its not necessarily controlling thoughts and 'Trying' to think positive (which I felt didn't work,) but directing your mind to positive things when you want, do you do this or are you just aware of positivity and let it flow thorough you?

Do you see where I’m coming from? I find it hard to feel as the master of myself if all I’m doing is watching....

Your insight is much appreciated, thank you

[Alexjstrandberg]

problem is that you think by thinking in a certain way you will get out of depression but THINKING and the mind is why you are depressed in the first place

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by DEEJ

I think I’ve realised that there is not much point in forcing yourself to and trying to think positively and its more effective to just be the watcher of your thoughts and then naturally positivity and peace come forth... What do people think? I feel a lot of resistance to letting to of controlling my thoughts because I’ve tried to 'Hold myself together' and forcefully change myself for all these years... Its like something in my mind saying I can't let go and stop controlling completely but I reckon this is what the best route is to a positive, peaceful mind that isn't fighting and resisting itself all the time like mine seems to be. What do people think?...

I had a dog, and his name was BINGO! Uh, I mean, I agree. Positive thoughts are like teenagers; if you force them, they will rebel and turn into negative thoughts. But if you encourage and discipline them, then even a negative thought will go to college and make you lots of grandchildren, becoming a positive thought.

[Old Soul]

it is like the mind gets stuck in a loop, repeats the same thoughts over and over...

stay in the moment become aware....you can go beyond the veil of the ego

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by DEEJ

Or when I WANT to think positive, fun, happy thoughts? Do you not consciously direct your mind to positivity and 'The way you want to think' even though you are the watcher? Its not necessarily controlling thoughts and 'Trying' to think positive (which I felt didn't work,) but directing your mind to positive things when you want, do you do this or are you just aware of positivity and let it flow thorough you?

Do you see where I’m coming from? I find it hard to feel as the master of myself if all I’m doing is watching....

Dealing with the second part first, in a round about way. When you are thinking you are the man riding a camel. If you like, you are master of one.

When you can watch every thought come and go (like a line of camels) then you are the master of all, as nothing will unsettle you.

Now for the first part. You don't 'control' thoughts. When you want to think, think. The mind is a tool, use it that is all. Don't try and tinker with the internals of the tool to try and make the inputs produce different outputs.

Just put in what you want and you will get out what you want.

I feel their is greater happiness without thinking.

There is a line in the Tao Te Ching that goes something like:

"The Master does nothing,
yet he leaves nothing undone.
The ordinary man is always doing things,
yet many more are left to be done."