Tired of being a girl

[niche]

Okay, this may sound weird, but it's true. I'm not tired of having the body parts of a female. I'm just tired of being treated like a girl. I feel like if I were a man, I would gain more respect in this world. I would be treated like my opinion counted or what I had to offer was worth something. I'm not into women, so please don't think this is what I'm saying by stating that I'm tired of being a girl. I just want to feel some type of value, and so far in my life, it has only been men that are respected. All the men get together and do things and "bond." All the men are "important" in some way to society. Why can't I have this too?

[Playlife]

Let's swap our bodies then... I'm quite tired being a boy so.

I hear certain parts of U.S. are quite "conservative" so maybe indeed women have a harder time there. I live in (northern) Europe though, and I don't feel as if I get more respect than women here. But maybe that's my privilege of not having to be conscious of how good life I have as a guy.

Men get together and do things and "bond"?? I have heard that women get together and do things and "bond", too. And have much deeper bonding at that. But I see you a woman, not women. (Just like I am a guy, not guys.)

[niche]

My bonding experience is nill and void. I've never bonded with women. To be honest, I find myself not able to connect with most women. Not all, just most. I've had a few "best" friends in my past that are girls. But they are different than most. I'm the kind of girl that likes to listen to great music, throw back a few drinks, maybe have a cigarette while I'm drinking. (I'm not a true smoker, but like to have a cigarette occasionally when I drink). I like to talk about planning things. Not events, but like home improvements and long trips. I love motorcycles, cars, trucks, power tools, and some of the more vulgar humor as long as it's not making fun of women or blondes. I'm a strawberry blonde. So blonde jokes offend me a bit. So how many other women are out there that share common interests with me? Not many I'm sure, and none that I currently know of. Oh, I also like horses. Don't know much about them, but would really enjoy knowing more and learning how to ride. I suppose this could be more of a girl thing.

I've heard that northern Europe is much more equal when it comes to male/female status. I was just never sure that this could actually be true.

[chiffonade]

Here's a clue, lady.

Men (and women, these days) earn their status. The vast, vast majority of men in this world have zero status, almost zero income, certainly zero influence, and are less respected by "general" society than you'll ever be.

All of those invisible people who come get your trash, mow your lawn, fix your roof, flip your burgers, ship your consumer widgets around behind the wheel of a big truck - they're all men, they all got a pretty shitty deal, but you know what the difference is between them and you?

They don't whine about their station in life. That's what makes them men. If you want to see what it's like being a man you can try that on for size, see how it fits you.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by chiffonade

They don't whine about their station in life. That's what makes them men. If you want to see what it's like being a man you can try that on for size, see how it fits you.

Chiffonade - This is very, very harsh. These forums are designed as a supportive place to look at issues and develop personally. While it is sometimes necessary to call someone on their b.s., you might try a less confrontational and judgmental way of doing that.

[Lauxa]

Whatevers, chiffonade, I know me plenties of mens who whine about their lot in life. But I will agree with you that lots of men have hard lives.

[Alexjstrandberg]

what's the situation that you are in right now? people walking all over you?-details

[Freelancer]

Both women and men have certain 'advantages' over the other.
One of the differences is that men tend more to the extreme's of good and bad. You will see more men in the very high circles and more men in the very low circles. This mostly comes from evolution where men are more 'disposable' then women. There's a reason that most women are considered before men in situations of danger.
In general men are more quickly assumed to be independent then women. This is both a burden and a blessing in one.

Women are in general better able to make deep bonds with eachother. Men have more of a tendency to make a lot of superficial bonds, this is especially important in the business world. One of the reasons women have it more difficult here.

Women are also in general better tuned in socially, they pick this area up more easily and readily then men. Again evolution, in ancient times the best means for a women to survive was her ability to connect and bond with other members of the group.

So there are both advantages and disadvantages for both men and women. Because men are more heavily present in both extremes and you don't generally see the men at the bottom of the totem pole people often mistakenly think that women have it worse.

This does not mean that both have difficult challenges to tackle in there life and these are merely tendency's of nature.

I would gain more respect in this world.

This depends on the social position you earned or inherited, more so if your a man.

I would be treated like my opinion counted or what I had to offer was worth something.

Perceptions of other people do not change the value you have to offer.

All the men get together and do things and "bond."

One thing you could do is bond with more men. You'd have to be able to stand the blond jokes and similar jokes not in your favor if you want to be accepted as one of the boys, a favorite past time for men is to take playfull shots at each others 'weak points'.

All the men are "important" in some way to society.

Not entirely true, the thing is that the men at the bottom usually bitch amongst eachother about how bad they've got it. So other people generally don't hear about it.

Why can't I have this too?

[niche]

Originally Posted by chiffonade

Here's a clue, lady.

Men (and women, these days) earn their status. The vast, vast majority of men in this world have zero status, almost zero income, certainly zero influence, and are less respected by "general" society than you'll ever be.

All of those invisible people who come get your trash, mow your lawn, fix your roof, flip your burgers, ship your consumer widgets around behind the wheel of a big truck - they're all men, they all got a pretty shitty deal, but you know what the difference is between them and you?

They don't whine about their station in life. That's what makes them men. If you want to see what it's like being a man you can try that on for size, see how it fits you.

Not whining per se. Just trying to figure things out and understand the concept of two heads are better than one. As for doing the shitty work, getting a shitty deal, I would have to say most everyone has had this in some way shape or form, men and women alike. Which is why I started going to this forum to begin with. For help and advice. Obviously with such a crude remark, you must have some "crap" you're carrying around with you. Maybe you should try to share. I love hearing other's stories. It helps me deal with mine.

As for what I'm currently going through....well it's nothing big I guess. At least not currently. I'm currently taking a psychology class and a sociology class. I think that by reading these text books, I'm digging up past hurts that I thought I was over but haven't quite gotten there, know what I mean? See, in my very, very young years, like 2 or 3, I was molested by my father. Don't really remember much of it, but the drama from it lasted for some time constantly reminding me that something bad happened to me. During my 20s I was raped 2 times. I never reported it because felt then and I still feel, I caused this to myself. Then my ex husband who used to hit me all the time because he was too drunk to understand the words coming out of my mouth. And of course I had to have sex with him too when I didn't want to. So I guess all of this might make me feel like not being a girl, woman, anymore. This is obviously just socially, not physically.

[Playlife]

I feel sorry for you, you certainly have had a tough life.

But then again, those are also reasons why I feel kinda bad about being a guy - being a potential rapist and child molester and allround bad person. Women are never considered as being even potentiall bad. Women are the fairer sex after all...

And, you say "As for what I'm currently going through....well it's nothing big I guess". Well, I think if it's not big, then it's certainly very important and you shouldn't say it isn't. But I am not the person to talk about those matters.

[niche]

Thank you playlife for your kind words. I'm fairly rational about what has happened in my life, and when I said current, I just meant that my problems are not current but from my past. I've had 2 years of therapy. You'd think that'd be enough, but I guess not. I will have to return when I am able to. Just right now circumstances do not permit me.

i just want to be normal. That's all.

You're right about the man thing...every man can be considered "potentially" bad. Women can be thought of as manipulative and what not, but this is definitely not as bad as the other. I try to assume the best in people. Unfortunately though, this is probably what got me into trouble a few times.

[Trezker]

That's a rough start of your life. But you still have a future where you can grow and experience better things. Since you've found this forum, I hope you will use it well.

It does seem like you're starting to open your eyes to new perspectives. Some people have it bad, but I haven't seen anything like that in my life. Just know that abusive men is not normal, that's just a part of your past perspective and experiences. You can manifest a life where men are loving and caring, where you can bond and feel safe.

Just believe in yourself and cultivate your own strength.

[Dannyboy1]

My guess is you wouldn't like being a man because men are not treated as (forgive the phrasing) daintily as women. Men aren't allowed to get tired or scared or upset. Society has taught us to be nice to women, to not be rude, to help them when they need it, etc. Men are taught to fend for themselves and unless they're old, that's the way they'll be treated. You may not realize it, but women are given a great many allowances that are so subtle you may not even realize it. It might be very upsetting to have them all taken away. Plus, even if you were in a man's body, you'd still think like a women and things that men find important would be totally alien to you. This might cause other men to ostracize you because they think you're odd. On the other hand, I'm sure there are many things I would hate about being a women.

[niche]

I've never been treated daintily. One of my "whines." Since I was very young, I've had to look after my mom. I remember seeing what my dad did to her, and I had to protect her against him. It was my fault he was in her life anyway. I mean in the way where once you have a child with a man they are always a part of your life kind of way. I've always had to be strong. Trying never to show emotion. To appear that I could handle anything. I'm still that way. I'm not quite sure where these many allowances are though....Seriously, not sarcastically, can you tell me what they are so maybe I can be on the look out for them. It would probably make me feel a lot better to see something like this. Yes, I know that there are allowances for the type of girls on television or magazines. But for your average jane? I don't really see this.

[niche]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

ostracize you because they think you're odd

Sorry for double post....

But this just caught my eye....this already happens. Not just by men, but by women as well.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by niche

I've never been treated daintily. One of my "whines." Since I was very young, I've had to look after my mom. I remember seeing what my dad did to her, and I had to protect her against him. It was my fault he was in her life anyway. I mean in the way where once you have a child with a man they are always a part of your life kind of way. I've always had to be strong. Trying never to show emotion. To appear that I could handle anything. I'm still that way. I'm not quite sure where these many allowances are though....Seriously, not sarcastically, can you tell me what they are so maybe I can be on the look out for them. It would probably make me feel a lot better to see something like this. Yes, I know that there are allowances for the type of girls on television or magazines. But for your average jane? I don't really see this.

On tough jobs, women can ask for help. Men can't. I used to have comedians passing out flyers on the street for shows. Female comics would have a much lower threshold. They'd say they were tired and want to come in or they didn't like how they were treated, etc. That pretty much never happened with the male comics. They'd stay out for hours without a break. They might complain after a little, but they wouldn't ask to stop early.

Also, we talk to you differently. When men talk, they just say stuff. We joke around without worrying about feelings because we know other men aren't offended much and if they are, you're easily forgiven. Also, we tell each other when we look or do something stupid. In fact, it's one of our favorite things to do, rip on each other. We can be really mean, but we don't care. Men really curb their "man talk" around women because we're afraid they can't take it. We'll tell each other to shut up or call each other an idiot or an ass. We'd never do that to a woman, unless we knew her really well and she could take it. Women analyze everything you say. Men don't. They're more tough skinned because society has taught them to be.

[niche]

Hmmm....I don't want to be rude at all. Really I'm not trying to be, but I've worked "hard" jobs before. If you consider construction hard. No help there. If something was heavy, deal with it. Work smarter not harder was always my rule. I found that working with others means that you carry on the same responsibilities that everyone else does. If that means carrying large, heavy pieces over to the table saw to cut all by yourself, then that's what you had to do. If the table saw kicked back and you were jutted in the thigh with a piece of Corian 3 times your size and 2 times your weight, that meant suck it up. You know that phrase, "Be a man." I've actually reformatted this. I say, "Be a woman." If can be punched in the stomach only a week after having a c-section, and still keep going (maybe a few tears in private) to do the laundry, the dishes, mow the lawn, and whatever else, well I've just never known a man to have to deal with something like this.

On another note, don't get me wrong. I know there are good men out there. My grandfather for one. He was absolutely perfect. Nothing and no one could ever taint my opinion of him. He was genuine. And he's the one that taught me how to behave as a human being. I just wish he wouldn't have died at my most critical time in life of age 13.

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by niche

You know that phrase, "Be a man." I've actually reformatted this. I say, "Be a woman." If can be punched in the stomach only a week after having a c-section, and still keep going (maybe a few tears in private) to do the laundry, the dishes, mow the lawn, and whatever else, well I've just never known a man to have to deal with something like this.

Well, maybe because men can't have c-sections...? Really, that's not "being a woman". No woman should be kicked in stomach.. at all, even more so a week after a surgery. Ugh.

I haven't dealt with surgeries, but I have dealt with being kicked in stomach... Men are expected to hit and being hit. Just see how many boys in primary school fight with each other. And no-one really knows why anyway. Some sort of power structure. I remember thinking, who are stronger and who are weaker than me. It was quite important to be strong. I was pretty weak though, quite a few girls ran and jumped faster and longer than me... don't know if they could have got against me in a fist fight, but I think all of them could have - they can hit me, while I can not.

[Jamie]

Hi niche,

I'm curious .. with the issues you're facing at the moment and how you feel .. how much of this is because you're a girl? (i.e. that you wouldn't feel this way if you were male (you'd just have a different set of life challenges))?

Jamie. x

[Playlife]

Oh, and I kinda hope that this thread won't become sorts of a competition who has it tougher, who is the real victim, like most do.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by niche

Hmmm....I don't want to be rude at all. Really I'm not trying to be, but I've worked "hard" jobs before. If you consider construction hard. No help there. If something was heavy, deal with it. Work smarter not harder was always my rule. I found that working with others means that you carry on the same responsibilities that everyone else does. If that means carrying large, heavy pieces over to the table saw to cut all by yourself, then that's what you had to do. If the table saw kicked back and you were jutted in the thigh with a piece of Corian 3 times your size and 2 times your weight, that meant suck it up. You know that phrase, "Be a man." I've actually reformatted this. I say, "Be a woman." If can be punched in the stomach only a week after having a c-section, and still keep going (maybe a few tears in private) to do the laundry, the dishes, mow the lawn, and whatever else, well I've just never known a man to have to deal with something like this.

On another note, don't get me wrong. I know there are good men out there. My grandfather for one. He was absolutely perfect. Nothing and no one could ever taint my opinion of him. He was genuine. And he's the one that taught me how to behave as a human being. I just wish he wouldn't have died at my most critical time in life of age 13.

What I told you were facts of what happened when I ran shows. Female comedians would say they were tired or scared to deal with people or too cold or whatever other excuse in an hour while the men would stand out in the rain and cold for 3 or 4 hours and never ask to come in. There were one or two exceptions, but for the most part, those were the facts. I'm not judging anyone, I'm merely stating what actually happened. Now, you may be different, but you definitely are not treated like a man. Men do treat women completely different, at least socially. I'm not talking about in an office job. There, it's much more equal. But, socially and with labor jobs where women cannot do the lifting that men can, men treat women differently. (I know, some women can lift a lot, but for the most part, men are genetically built with more muscle.) They go out of their way more for women than they would for another guy. But, you're right, they're not given enough respect on the job. Our society is chauvinistic. Are men better? No way. Not at all. But they are totally different in many many ways.

I'm not trying to say things are right or wrong or anything else. I'm just trying to answer your question.

[Jross22]

Your history has a lot of negative experience in it. That's not unusual of course, for women or men. However, your belief seems to be that your particular style of suffering is rooted in your gender, that it's because you're a woman.

That is not so. Okay, but just suppose that it isn't so.

It's easy, if you notice that lots of women out there who have a better life, and many have worse. Although womanhood has colored your tragedy, I recommend you shift your focus.

First, you might try to create a new overall belief about how you will be treated. Suppose that you knew for a fact that you will eventually achieve all the respect you desire-- do you think that might feel a lot better? And that you might actually seek outand find a circle of people who will protect and respect you?

Second, look for things that you control. Assume responsibility, and if it isn't yours--usually isn't, so you're off the hook-- steal it. It is the most precious thing in the universe, the power to do something about your life. You may find that you can feel better while taking charge even when the situation seems objectively to be worse. So just suppose that the most important thing in life is, what do you want to do and What are you going to do?

Well, hope that this helps! I know that it made me feel better... something I need to hear.