Tired of being a girl

[martin]

Sex reassignment surgery (female-to-male) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Angela]

I'm sorry for the pain of what you've gone through, and you can bet that no matter what you've endured, pretty much everyone else here has suffered just as much in their way, including men.

You have endured pain. Now what? I don't think a sex change operation is an alternative you're seriously considering. What meaning are you willing to make in your life, what action are you willing to take, to move forward in a life you love?

I don't think you're whining, by the way. I think you're just expressing what's going on for you, which is what we all do here. Whining would be if you were to say "that's just how my life is, I'm powerless because I'm a woman, that's just the way it is, poor me, I'm stuck unless you solve my problem for me." You know you have the power to take at least a small step to feel more powerful and effective in your life. What are you willing to do?

[ilovetoday]

hi niche,
I think I know what you mean, sometimes you feel because you are female your opinion doesn't count around men-it is kind of fobbed off. I feel as though because I am a young woman even more-so and look "smart" i wear makeup and dye my hair blonde. I get treated as a stupid girl sometimes, not by all men but you certainly do get cut out even by other women, and especially some older women.

In an interview on my site yet to be finnished, one sectio the interviewee asks about how a young pretty australian property developer Carly Crutchfield must of had trouble especially when she started at around 16 years old to get taken seriously. Carly even said that recently she was talking to a client of hers and she advised him to get into property developing and he replied "are you doing that with your father" obviously he didnt know just how successful she is in this area. She just laughs about it.

I just think well that Carly had an excellent way to look at it, as simply entertainment.
Dont worry about people who prefer to overlook your opinion- would you want someone with such a narrow mind in your circle of connections anyway?

[Tigerlilly]

I don't think life for men is easier, but sometimes I'm tired of the challenges I feel presented with being a girl as well. And that's though there are undoubtedly all those allowances that Dannyboy pointed out, but then to every allowance there is a downside which can't be separated from it. It's not better to be a guy or a girl, it's just the challenges to be dealt with are different, and some of those challenges root in natural instinct and some in social conditioning.

The pain you faced in the past and the challenges you face now cause of it though don't really root in your gender. Imagine if you had been a guy living your past life exactly the way it was. Do you think that would have made things easier for you right now? You may think, oh if I was a guy none of it would have happened, but there are guys out there with your history of suffering, guys do get abused by parents and raped and beaten by their wifes, and they feel lonely and isolated, and I very, very much doubt they are having an easier time with it cause they are men.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

On tough jobs, women can ask for help. Men can't. I used to have comedians passing out flyers on the street for shows. Female comics would have a much lower threshold. They'd say they were tired and want to come in or they didn't like how they were treated, etc. That pretty much never happened with the male comics. They'd stay out for hours without a break. They might complain after a little, but they wouldn't ask to stop early.

As a male, this seems to say more to me about the male ego that what is or isn't allowed based on gender. I see this as a weakness of men, similar to the stereotype of men not being willing to ask for directions when lost. I think that not being willing to ask for help is something that men need to work to improve. I know that throughout my career I have always thought much more highly of employees (male or female) who were willing to admit to needing help, than those who tried to pretend that they knew everything or could do it all on their own. I think this applies to most any type of job. For purely physical labor, a man can get himself seriously hurt by refusing to ask for help when he needs it. In a "skill" job a man can definitely screw up a job by "figuring it out on his own" rather than get help from someone with the experience or knowledge to do the job right. In a knowledge based job a man can also screw up the task, or at the very least do it inefficiently when not willing to ask for help. I am not saying that there aren't circles where men are looked down on for asking for help, but I still think it says more about the men in those circles than societal expectations.

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

Also, we talk to you differently. When men talk, they just say stuff. We joke around without worrying about feelings because we know other men aren't offended much and if they are, you're easily forgiven. Also, we tell each other when we look or do something stupid. In fact, it's one of our favorite things to do, rip on each other. We can be really mean, but we don't care. Men really curb their "man talk" around women because we're afraid they can't take it. We'll tell each other to shut up or call each other an idiot or an ass. We'd never do that to a woman, unless we knew her really well and she could take it. Women analyze everything you say. Men don't. They're more tough skinned because society has taught them to be.

Again, I think this has more to do with them men themselves than with anything related to society. I know that I talk to my male and female friends the same way. In my mind, they are the same. Neither gender is stronger or weaker than the other. Neither gender is more sensitive, or more tough skinned than the other. Those are individual traits, not gender specific traits. I have seen men who do watch what they say around women, but it is my experience that this tends to annoy many women. I know that my female friends would be very upset to be talked to differently because of their gender.

I have heard stories of female journalists embedded with military units who found that they had to use off-color jokes or obscene language to "break the ice" with the troops. They reported that the male troops seemed very guarded about what they would say beforehand, but once they saw the journalists as "one of the guys" they were at ease around them, and started carrying on normal conversations.

Reading this thread has reminded me that for a society that talks about gender equality, many (at least here in the US) do a very poor job at actually doing things to promote equality. As long as men and women are viewed differently, treated differently, talked to differently or given different expectations I don't see how we can have true gender equality. I wonder if that is some of what the OP is experiencing. She has had a hard life. She has worked along with the guys and held her own. She has gone through things that the majority of people (men or women) have never had to experience. So why is she treated differently just because she is female? It doesn't seem fair, she deserves to be treated as an equal in every way. I may be off base there, and forgive me if I am, but that is what I am taking from this thread. Individuals, men and women alike, need to stop behaving as though men and women are different, and start treating everyone as equals (because we are all equal).

[niche]

Thank you all for you responses and advice. Whether positive or negative or just neutral comments, I've really gotten a lot of information and help with respect to my feelings and opinions. My mind has really opened a lot just since yesterday when I first started the thread. I obviously just need to take more time sorting out myself and mending all the broken parts.

Originally Posted by Bitsy

I am doing two different types of therapy that seem to be working, and not after 14 years of it, like psychotherapy. I recommend these two types of therapy if you try therapy again --the first one is called psychomotor therapy. It is a kind of therapy, the point of which is to replace all the painful memories you have with positive ones. The second kind is called EFT [Emotional Freedom Technique]. Currently I prefer the former, because apparently the progress you make with EFT depends heavily on the intuitive powers of the practioner you're working with, or on their willingness and capability to listen to you. If their ego starts getting in the way, sessions won't be so beneficial.

Can you please give me more information on the Psychomotor therapy? This sounds interesting and to be honest, I didn't even know there were other different types of therapies for what I'm experiencing. I've become aware that 2 years is not enough therapy. I thought that I had learned enough techniques to help myself continue on my own, but I've hit a dead end with the techniques.

Originally Posted by Peyem

Also, a lot of the negative backlash you will get from men on this topic comes from the "fragile male ego". I can't speak from the other side, but women have an immense amount of power to make a man feel like crap almost instantly. Millions of women do it daily and don't even realize it. Men also do their damnedest to not show that it has any effect on them. I mention this because if you were to start the topic and say "I want the same respect men get" you may very well spark up a defensive reaction and not realize why. There's some examples of that in this thread.

Originally Posted by Tigerlilly

The pain you faced in the past and the challenges you face now cause of it though don't really root in your gender. Imagine if you had been a guy living your past life exactly the way it was. Do you think that would have made things easier for you right now? You may think, oh if I was a guy none of it would have happened, but there are guys out there with your history of suffering, guys do get abused by parents and raped and beaten by their wifes, and they feel lonely and isolated, and I very, very much doubt they are having an easier time with it cause they are men.

In trying to discover more about men's feelings, I've learned a little about the male ego and I understand that it is fragile but no more than a woman's. I've always tried to treat others how I want to be treated no matter if they are male or female. If I have bruised anyone's ego with this thread, I do apologize because it was not my intention to do so. Also, please understand that this thread was not started to say that one sex is better than the other. In my mind, I was using statistics to say why I was tired of being a girl. Statistically, as a boy/man, I would have had a much less chance of at least being raped and abused. Molestation could have definitely happened either which way especially since my father was a molester of children not just female children. But as for this.....

Originally Posted by martin

Sex reassignment surgery (female-to-male) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You've got to be kidding. Not being rude, but I've had to do a report on this stuff before with school. Do you know what women have to go through to pass? The scars that they will carry around for the rest of their lives on their arms and legs because a large patch of skin had to be removed to make the penis? The emotional deal with changing sexes is enough to put me off to this idea. I'm already having enough emotional problems. I don't need to add to them. If you're trying to help, I appreciate it, but as I already said before, I'm not interested in actually changing my physical traits to be a man.

Originally Posted by ilovetoday

hi niche,
I think I know what you mean, sometimes you feel because you are female your opinion doesn't count around men-it is kind of fobbed off. I feel as though because I am a young woman even more-so and look "smart" i wear makeup and dye my hair blonde. I get treated as a stupid girl sometimes, not by all men but you certainly do get cut out even by other women, and especially some older women.

In an interview on my site yet to be finnished, one sectio the interviewee asks about how a young pretty australian property developer Carly Crutchfield must of had trouble especially when she started at around 16 years old to get taken seriously. Carly even said that recently she was talking to a client of hers and she advised him to get into property developing and he replied "are you doing that with your father" obviously he didnt know just how successful she is in this area. She just laughs about it.

I just think well that Carly had an excellent way to look at it, as simply entertainment.
Dont worry about people who prefer to overlook your opinion- would you want someone with such a narrow mind in your circle of connections anyway?

This has hit the nail on the head in respects to what I've been feeling. I will do my best to try to look at situations such as these with a better mind frame such as what you mentioned in your last paragraph. I find it difficult when the disrespect is coming from my own family (This is actually where a good portion of it comes from) but I can still see that a different mind frame can help me to see differently what is going on. I'll work on it.

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

As a male, this seems to say more to me about the male ego that what is or isn't allowed based on gender. I see this as a weakness of men, similar to the stereotype of men not being willing to ask for directions when lost. I think that not being willing to ask for help is something that men need to work to improve. I know that throughout my career I have always thought much more highly of employees (male or female) who were willing to admit to needing help, than those who tried to pretend that they knew everything or could do it all on their own. I think this applies to most any type of job. For purely physical labor, a man can get himself seriously hurt by refusing to ask for help when he needs it. In a "skill" job a man can definitely screw up a job by "figuring it out on his own" rather than get help from someone with the experience or knowledge to do the job right. In a knowledge based job a man can also screw up the task, or at the very least do it inefficiently when not willing to ask for help. I am not saying that there aren't circles where men are looked down on for asking for help, but I still think it says more about the men in those circles than societal expectations.



Again, I think this has more to do with them men themselves than with anything related to society. I know that I talk to my male and female friends the same way. In my mind, they are the same. Neither gender is stronger or weaker than the other. Neither gender is more sensitive, or more tough skinned than the other. Those are individual traits, not gender specific traits. I have seen men who do watch what they say around women, but it is my experience that this tends to annoy many women. I know that my female friends would be very upset to be talked to differently because of their gender.

I have heard stories of female journalists embedded with military units who found that they had to use off-color jokes or obscene language to "break the ice" with the troops. They reported that the male troops seemed very guarded about what they would say beforehand, but once they saw the journalists as "one of the guys" they were at ease around them, and started carrying on normal conversations.

Reading this thread has reminded me that for a society that talks about gender equality, many (at least here in the US) do a very poor job at actually doing things to promote equality. As long as men and women are viewed differently, treated differently, talked to differently or given different expectations I don't see how we can have true gender equality. I wonder if that is some of what the OP is experiencing. She has had a hard life. She has worked along with the guys and held her own. She has gone through things that the majority of people (men or women) have never had to experience. So why is she treated differently just because she is female? It doesn't seem fair, she deserves to be treated as an equal in every way. I may be off base there, and forgive me if I am, but that is what I am taking from this thread. Individuals, men and women alike, need to stop behaving as though men and women are different, and start treating everyone as equals (because we are all equal).

You have got to be one of the most enlightened men I have ever come across. There is truth to everything you said. Would you mind telling me how you've come to be so in tune with equality? Was it your upbringing? Did you have an experience? Was it your education? I'm just curious. Thank you for all of your kind words.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

Dannyboy1:



= dainty treatment???



After how she's been treated in her life by men, you think she cares about dainty treatment?!




Two years of therapy would not be nearly enough, even if it is helping you. Psychotherapy didn't help me even a little. If it is helping you, you would need to be in it for years and years. [Based on the experience of two people I know who actually were helped by it.]

I am doing two different types of therapy that seem to be working, and not after 14 years of it, like psychotherapy. I recommend these two types of therapy if you try therapy again --the first one is called psychomotor therapy. It is a kind of therapy, the point of which is to replace all the painful memories you have with positive ones. The second kind is called EFT [Emotional Freedom Technique]. Currently I prefer the former, because apparently the progress you make with EFT depends heavily on the intuitive powers of the practioner you're working with, or on their willingness and capability to listen to you. If their ego starts getting in the way, sessions won't be so beneficial.

You would have seen that I didn't know about her past.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by niche

You have got to be one of the most enlightened men I have ever come across. There is truth to everything you said. Would you mind telling me how you've come to be so in tune with equality? Was it your upbringing? Did you have an experience? Was it your education? I'm just curious. Thank you for all of your kind words.

Before now I had never put much thought into this, to me it was just "normal" and how I expected everyone to be. I think my upbringing had a part to play, although not in the way you would expect. I grew up in a fairly isolated rural community, and had a very sheltered childhood. My family and church had very traditional ideas of gender roles, and I always considered this to be unfair. My best friend growing up was female, and I always saw her as an equal. Since moving away from home 10 years ago I have been on a path of self-discovery. During that period I have questioned everything I was taught as a child. Once I discovered I disagreed with some things I was taught were true, I became much more open to the fact that other things may also not be true. I have come to view gender as an attribute of a person, rather than a defining element. In my mind, gender plays no bigger part in a person's worth than their height or hair color. I think this holds true in all all areas, including careers, leadership, relationships, etc. That is one thing I like about the anonymity of the internet. It is possible to base opinions about someone based solely on the things they say and do, without gender (or race for that matter) ever being considered. Obviously my username on this forum does not give me that, but on other forums I have experimented with that.

I think it would be very interesting to be part of a group in which gender of the participants was unknown. I wonder if the result would be closer to the vision I have of a world in which gender isn't even taken into consideration. I think it would also be very interesting to hear from any forum members who have a gender-neutral forum name, and have not made their gender known. Do you feel that the responses you get are different than if others were aware of your gender? Do you feel that what you say carries more/less weight with other reads than if your gender were known?

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by Tigerlilly

The pain you faced in the past and the challenges you face now cause of it though don't really root in your gender. Imagine if you had been a guy living your past life exactly the way it was. Do you think that would have made things easier for you right now? You may think, oh if I was a guy none of it would have happened, but there are guys out there with your history of suffering, guys do get abused by parents and raped and beaten by their wifes, and they feel lonely and isolated, and I very, very much doubt they are having an easier time with it cause they are men.

Just out of interest, how could a man get raped by his wife? In fact, I don't think I've ever heard of a case where a man got raped by a woman, except on that film Thursday with Tom Jane.

[Jross22]

Originally Posted by niche

I like this advice. Inside I guess I'm really angry. Or scared which makes me angry. I'm not sure. I blame being raped and abused on being a girl. I blame being scared on being a girl. Like if I wasn't this never would have happened. Or with the "almighty testosterone" I could just overcome everything within me. Shrug it off like who cares. Cause even though I show the world I don't care, I still do. And it sucks. And I just want to forget and erase everything bad from my mind. I want to erase my natural responses to attack. Because the smallest attack leads me to tense up and and prepare to strike back. And I want to get rid of the dreams.

Thank you, I'm glad you liked my advice. All I know is, I'm always better off when I suppose that I am going to enjoy good results from my plans.

You should know that I want these things for you, too. You should know what it means to feel safe, and powerful, loved and worthy. To know that when you go to bed you will sleep soundly. Best of all, when you achieve these things, you will know that none of them were handed to you: you earned every one.

[mej023]

You should watch Vanilla Sky.

What if the story you're telling us is nothing more than memories that were implanted in your brain?

Your story (memories) are defining who you think you are.

As Abraham says, don't pay attention to reality. What you focus on is what you attract.

Just reach for a thought that feels a little better.

You may not notice it yet but you have started changing already since you started this thread.

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by niche

In my mind, I was using statistics to say why I was tired of being a girl. Statistically, as a boy/man, I would have had a much less chance of at least being raped and abused. Molestation could have definitely happened either which way especially since my father was a molester of children not just female children. But as for this.....

Statistically as a man, you would be seen as a potential rapist and abuser. Nobody suspects women of anything bad.
But that's my issue of course. In some ways guys do have it easier. I don't think they are necessarily happier people, though. I don't think abusers are happy and joyful.

Originally Posted by niche

You've got to be kidding. Not being rude, but I've had to do a report on this stuff before with school. Do you know what women have to go through to pass? The scars that they will carry around for the rest of their lives on their arms and legs because a large patch of skin had to be removed to make the penis? The emotional deal with changing sexes is enough to put me off to this idea. I'm already having enough emotional problems. I don't need to add to them. If you're trying to help, I appreciate it, but as I already said before, I'm not interested in actually changing my physical traits to be a man.

Well, firstly, as a guy you wouldn't have emotions anyway...
Secondly, those scars? If someone asks you about them, you could say that you fought a bear, or fell off a building. Joking, of course.[/quote]

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

I think it would be very interesting to be part of a group in which gender of the participants was unknown. I wonder if the result would be closer to the vision I have of a world in which gender isn't even taken into consideration. I think it would also be very interesting to hear from any forum members who have a gender-neutral forum name, and have not made their gender known. Do you feel that the responses you get are different than if others were aware of your gender? Do you feel that what you say carries more/less weight with other reads than if your gender were known?

Wow, this would have been an interesting thing to do, since my username is gender-neutral. But I have way too many gender-related issues on my own so I've already told my gender here...

[niche]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

I think it would be very interesting to be part of a group in which gender of the participants was unknown. I wonder if the result would be closer to the vision I have of a world in which gender isn't even taken into consideration. I think it would also be very interesting to hear from any forum members who have a gender-neutral forum name, and have not made their gender known. Do you feel that the responses you get are different than if others were aware of your gender? Do you feel that what you say carries more/less weight with other reads than if your gender were known?

If you decide to do this or if you would like help in organizing something like this or whatever, I would just like to be involved. I consistently seek to discover the truths to what I have always been taught or experienced. I feel the truth holds more happiness than what I know or have experienced. This type of "experiment," if you will, sounds like something that would provide me great knowledge in the area of what this particular thread is about.

Originally Posted by mej023

You should watch Vanilla Sky.

What if the story you're telling us is nothing more than memories that were implanted in your brain?

Your story (memories) are defining who you think you are.

As Abraham says, don't pay attention to reality. What you focus on is what you attract.

Just reach for a thought that feels a little better.

You may not notice it yet but you have started changing already since you started this thread.

It's kinda odd that you mention this. I've often wondered if what happened to me when I was younger was just a figment of my imagination. I was so young and really don't remember much at all. Unfortunately though, I am led to believe what memories I do have are real. I know for sure what happened as I got older and as for when I was younger, well, I was not the only child my father molested. Therefore, the memories I do have are probably real. And as for changing, you're certainly right there. I'm nowhere near cured by all means, but I have direction. And that's what I have really appreciated from all of you here. Thank you again.

On a separate note, I've been researching psychomotor therapy in the area that I live in. I cannot seem to find anyone who offers this. The treatment looks to be right up my alley of what I need. If anyone has any info on this, I'd be greatly appreciative of any advice you can offer.

[Tigerlilly]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Just out of interest, how could a man get raped by his wife? In fact, I don't think I've ever heard of a case where a man got raped by a woman, except on that film Thursday with Tom Jane.

Sorry, in this instant misunderstanding here due to a left out ",". In general though I do believe everything that can be thought of happens.

[Grophrane]

Hello there niche. You should remember that a human body is made up of two sides. Female and Male. You're half Male and half Female my friend. Respect is an ugly thing really, it is normally business like, and not spontaneously arising because of the humans character. If you simply are yourself, and keep growing. Be authentic in your life, and always remember you're half Man, half Woman. No need to switch bodies. You can easily obtain respect by flinging out an transcendental arguement. It's really hilarious how people go out of their way just to gain respect, but it's really not a big thing niche. Once it's obtained, you can see it's pseudo-respect. They are only doing it cause of your status, not because it's YOU they are respecting. So don't think that because people respect somebody, they are great people. In fact they depend on it so they can console themselves. Depending on opinions of others is weakness, because nobody can know yourself. Only YOU can know yourself. Respect is only good when it arises spontaneously in your being towards somebody, or vice versa. But that can only happen when you have a certain conciousness about you, a certain quality that makes you special. And nobody is the same, everybody is special in some way or other, even if you feel it is not so. And i know, mob-minded people, sheep, feel we are all the same. That's why they crave respect, somebody then tell you that you're great. Then you feel great. You are special, you are great. This is the so called respect. Real respect is not respect at all. I love the story of Adam and Eve, it shows something. Eve disobeyed the father first. Then Adam was persuaded by Eve. This shows women matures faster. Disobedience is indeed a sign that you're asserting your freedom. It's okay you don't have to disobey all, but if it doesn't go in accordance with your intelligence then don't. Just be yourself, and naturally somebody that has eyes is bound to respond to you, somebody or other is bound to 'bond' with you. People want to be together with unique people. People want to be together with special people. You can be an idol easily, but don't get sucked in. You're just yourself, nobody's idol in reality, it's just a game. But it's easy for sheep to follow a shepherd.

Remember Niche, you're also Male. If both grow naturally, the women of the same age as a man, is more mature. 1 year or more. You were born out of a woman AND a man. You're both. It just depends on which DNA is there so that you get the body of a Female. Just feel blessed, there's nothing special about males. They're very poor in brains you know. The majority of Males are very stupid. And don't be offended if blond female jokes are there. In fact you should enjoy them more. What's with getting identified with the blonde in the story, and it's not nessecarily true. It's just some letters that formed into words, that then are put into sentences. It has nothing to do with you personally.. And to be honest, i love the ones that shows Male stupidity the most since i am a male myself. But also a female. I can enjoy both aspects !

It's not more a disadvantage than an advantage. It's both together. So don't start feeling like Male is better or worse.

[niche]

Grophrane, I really enjoyed what you had to say. Today (and I understand this is very simple, but..) I was at the grocery store. I suddenly had a feeling of complete independence. It was very brief, but it was when I was picking out some spices to cook with. I'm always scared to try new things with cooking because I don't like hearing my food tastes bad. But today, I went ahead and bought a new spice to try just because I thought it would be good. Again, this is very small, but inside, I didn't care what my family might think of what I cook. I was determined to experiment because I want to become better at cooking. Anyway, this was a momentary instance of pure freedom for me. It felt good and light. I think if I give more attention to what I want and less to what others want, I might be able to kick this thinking. Not sure, but it's worth a shot. And it's at least got to be a step in the right direction.

Playlife, of course males have emotions. Ya'll are just trained by society to "suck it up." Well here I am to tell you stop it! Quit sucking it up! Spill it out and let it flow! I would love to hear the true emotions of men whether it is beautiful, disgusting, disrespectful, wonderful, or whatever. In fact, I actually had a thought today while driving. I was thinking wouldn't it be fun and satisfying to just hold up a really big sign in public that says quit sucking it up. And invite people, men and women, to just complain or say whatever is on their mind, kinda like the tissue commercial I know, but... Don't know if I have the guts to do something like this, but it sounds fun to me.

[DayInTheLife]

Originally Posted by chiffonade

Here's a clue, lady.

Men (and women, these days) earn their status. The vast, vast majority of men in this world have zero status, almost zero income, certainly zero influence, and are less respected by "general" society than you'll ever be.

All of those invisible people who come get your trash, mow your lawn, fix your roof, flip your burgers, ship your consumer widgets around behind the wheel of a big truck - they're all men, they all got a pretty shitty deal, but you know what the difference is between them and you?

They don't whine about their station in life. That's what makes them men. If you want to see what it's like being a man you can try that on for size, see how it fits you.

Great post. You can be as important and influential as you want to be. It is not society holding you back, it's you. Most people are nobodies because they believe that society decides how much they are worth. Buck the trend.