The Work

[Playlife]

So, I'm dabbling at The Work... Well..

if I say that "life shouldn't be painful" and if it actually is, then according to KT, there's no reason why it shouldn't be painful - because that's how it is. So, does it mean that life should be painful? That it is all right? Someone can have a life full of pain and that's no problema?

It's confusing.

[Angela]

When you feel pain and you say, "I shouldn't be feeling this pain," you are arguing with reality. Reality doesn't care about your shoulds. That pain is not going to go away because you say you shouldn't feel it. In fact, the more you *should* it, the more tenaciously it's likely to hurt you.

If you feel pain and you say, "I should feel this pain because I am feeling this pain," then you are accepting the reality of your moment -- you're no longer resisting it. Fighting with the pain turns it into suffering, and it's amazing how once you stop fighting, the suffering stops, too. You may still feel the pain, but your resources are freed up to take your next right action -- maybe you will take a pain reliever, or maybe you will get out your heating pad, or maybe you will look inside for the lesson that the pain is trying to teach you, or maybe you'll learn to live with it. And maybe -- it was ALL suffering, and ZERO authentic pain, and when you let go of fighting with it, it *poof* disappears.

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by Playlife

So, I'm dabbling at The Work... Well..

if I say that "life shouldn't be painful" and if it actually is, then according to KT, there's no reason why it shouldn't be painful - because that's how it is. So, does it mean that life should be painful? That it is all right? Someone can have a life full of pain and that's no problema?

It's confusing.

Have you read the first book? It really helps. It also helps to just stick with questioning your thoughts. I wouldn't worry so much about any larger meanings just yet. Those tend to take care of themselves once you've examined your thoughts long enough. Besides, trying to figure out what the ramifications of The Work are beyond the thoughts you are questioning is very likely a way for the mind to retreat back into justifying its story as opposed to simply finding out what's true.

And ditto what Angela said!

[Angela]

Byron Katie has a new-ish book called A Thousand Names for Joy that I think is her best and clearest -- also the most confronting! I highly recommend it.

[Playlife]

What if it's not my pain? Ehh... does this one even qualify?

For example, "children in Africa shouldn't starve"? The reality is, they do. So, is their starvation then somehow justified? Deserved, even?

Are all "should"-s bad, then? I mean, if I say that sun shouldn't be hot, that's insane. But if I say that terrorists shouldn't blow up cars and buildings - while they do - that's also then insane? Terrorists should blow up stuff? Otherwise they wouldn't be terrorists, eh? Terrorists are like that, take it or leave it, you can resist it and cause yourself suffering, or you can accept it... Cooperate with terrorists, listen to them, maybe they ain't so bad after all...

Is famine acceptable? We shouldn't resist terrorists?

(Sorry for such political examples. I have others too though. )

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Have you read the first book? It really helps. It also helps to just stick with questioning your thoughts. I wouldn't worry so much about any larger meanings just yet. Those tend to take care of themselves once you've examined your thoughts long enough. Besides, trying to figure out what the ramifications of The Work are beyond the thoughts you are questioning is very likely a way for the mind to retreat back into justifying its story as opposed to simply finding out what's true.

And ditto what Angela said!

I'm currently reading "Loving what is". Haven't gone too far yet, only started it a couple of days ago(super slow reader).

I'm kinda bad at sticking with the four questions and not going into larger meanings. I think if I was a builder, I would go and try and build a house using just a hammer and a few nails... Oh, and no schemes or anything either.

And I'm afraid I'm also afraid of me being wrong. (If I have thought wrong thoughts all the time, what else am I doing wrong too??)

Very sorry of rambling. Looks like I'm having a BED(Bad English Day).

[Mewwy]

Byron Katie's intention is to dissociate feelings attached to actual situations. Feelings are more disastrous for a person's mental state because it's often uncontrollable, very insistent, and very hard to refute against. That's why The Work tells you to flip statements inside out.

How you can describe political situations or starvation in Africa, for example, aren't The Work's main approach. However, if I feel bad about these incidences from my first person point of view "Starvation makes me feel bad," I can go ahead to question it. "Someone else's starvation makes me feel good" because I'm grateful that I'm not born into such poverty and I have other challenges to face. "I make myself feel bad" because I didn't contribute anything to starving kids in Africa, so why don't I donate time, strength or money to people of poorer places.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Playlife

What if it's not my pain? Ehh... does this one even qualify?

For example, "children in Africa shouldn't starve"? The reality is, they do. So, is their starvation then somehow justified? Deserved, even?

..Are all "should"-s bad, then? ....Cooperate with terrorists, listen to them, maybe they ain't so bad after all...

It sounds like you are still thinking that acceptance and condoning are the same thing.

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by Playlife

And I'm afraid I'm also afraid of me being wrong. (If I have thought wrong thoughts all the time, what else am I doing wrong too??)

Ok, you have given yourself a perfect example on how to do the work:

“I should not think wrong thoughts.”

1. Is that true?
2. Can you absolutely know if that’s true?
3. How do you react when you believe that thought?
4. Who would you be if you were incapable of believing that thought?

(I’d personally add more questions, like what would happen if I discovered I’d been thinking incorrectly, or what would it mean to find out I’d been thinking “wrong” thoughts, or what does it mean to think “wrong” thoughts, and so on.)

Then do the turn around. You could even go on to list three reasons why the turn around might be just as true if not more true than the original thought. AND THAT’S IT. Focus on the questions. If you start getting into the meaning of life, or why do people suffer, while you’re investigating the original thought, then you’re probably retreating back into more stories. Your mind will try to validate its opinions that way.

Of course, that isn’t to say that you can’t do the work on the particular thoughts you have surrounding suffering. (You could even write any of the “big” questions down with the promise that you’ll do the work on those thoughts AFTER you’ve finished with the original inquiry.) It’s just that you should concentrate on one thought at a time, especially if you’re a beginner. It’s way too easy to get lost again in whatever game your mind is attempting to play. Believe me, I know.

Angela is right again about the third book. It gets more into those "big" question issues.

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by Angela

It sounds like you are still thinking that acceptance and condoning are the same thing.

You're right. I get the impression that for example if my SO would cheat at me, it's me whose fault it is.

Or when someone is un-nice to me.

She should be nice to me. I should be nice to her? Or I should be nice to myself? I could be nice to her, but why should I be nice to myself? How do I know when it's right to be nice to myself? I'm kinda reluctant to turn the statement around so that it "favours" me. Being good to myself is so not me.

[Lauxa]

Anyone have good books or articles explaining the difference between accepting and condoning? That's something I'm struggling with.

Basically, I have come to the conclusion that I should spend less time thinking about the problems of the world. Then what to think about? Attention to the present moment. Gratitude. Prayer and intention-setting (which seem quite similar to me). The theory is that I will be able to do more to make the world a better place by focusing on these things.

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

Anyone have good books or articles explaining the difference between accepting and condoning? That's something I'm struggling with.

I don't know of any articles or books, but for what it's worth, for me the difference is simply observing something in your awareness versus labelling that something morally good or bad. For instance, does it really help the starving children in Africa to label their circumstance as evil, horrible and just plain bad? Do our labels literally put food in their mouths?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I don't know about books either (other than Byron Katie's which I think deal with this, but not in the same words), but there was a post a while back where the subject came up and Angela made some good points: When do you stop investing in a relationship?

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

I don't know of any articles or books, but for what it's worth, for me the difference is simply observing something in your awareness versus labelling that something morally good or bad. For instance, does it really help the starving children in Africa to label their circumstance as evil, horrible and just plain bad? Do our labels literally put food in their mouths?

But does simply observing solve the problems then? Labeling the situation as bad at least raises the awareness that urgent help is needed. Or is my thinking way off?

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by Playlife

But does simply observing solve the problems then?

Yes. Well it's a start at any rate. Theoretically, it’d be like noticing if you were hungry. You’d become aware of your stomach grumbling perhaps, or maybe you’d watch a TV commercial featuring one of your favorite foods and feel a positive urge to go get yourself something to eat. You notice you’re hungry and then you get up and feed yourself. Why make it morally wrong or bad? Do you have to label your hunger as bad to have dinner? Isn't the very acting of noticing enough to raise your awareness?

In a similar way, you might notice TV shows about starving children in Africa. You have the thought, “I should find a way to help those children.” Then your body gets up, gets the credit card, calls a number and forwards cash to an agency that feeds starving African children. Or maybe you find yourself starting some kind of charitable group in your church or community that directly addresses hunger. Or perhaps you feel inspired to do something else entirely. Whichever, all it took was noticing and inspired action.

The extra angst about the moral state of the world doesn't put any food in those children's mouth, but your inspired action can.

Originally Posted by Playlife

Labeling the situation as bad at least raises the awareness that urgent help is needed.

Is that true?

[Holistic Star]

If you say

"Children shouldn't starve" then yes you are arguing with our current reality
however if you say:
"Children are starving" then you have accepted the reality - and then you can ask "so how will I help?"

or for example

"I shouldn't have lost my job." is disempowering to someone because it keeps them locked in an internal argument of how unfair their previous employer/ situation was

"I have lost my job" is a statement that accepts the situation is it is. "What will I do next?" is the following empowering question.


"I mustn't get things wrong." limiting
"I sometimes get things wrong." accepting and allows for growth. (You're not learning if you don't make mistakes).

"He should be nice to me all the time." vs
"He's not always as nice to me as I'd like, however I choose to behave to him in a respectful way regardless of his moods"

[uberinquisitive]

Hmmm...my 2 cents....

Playlife, I have the same issues with The Work, so it's not just you!

I simply accept that different strokes work for different folks. The Work just doesn't "work" for me. I realized it didn't work because it mainly brought up "wait a sec...this doesn't make a lot of sense to me...huh?" questions rather than give me peace.

What DID jive with me was Eckhart Tolle's "A New Earth" and the corresponding Oprah webinar.

Whereas I really had to struggle to understand Byron Katie's teachings...I instantly understand and affirmed Tolle's teachings. Funny thing is - they say the same exact same thing!

Now others may totally find Byron Katie AND Eckhart confusing, and find they jive better with Genpo Roshi's "Big Heart Big Mind" or stuff by Pema Chodron. (I found Genpo Roshi and Pema Chodron helpful, but Eckhart stiill was the most effortless for me.)

Since they all say the same thing, just find the "style" you find most "effortless."

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

Since they all say the same thing, just find the "style" you find most "effortless."

I couldn't agree more. Everything does not work for everybody, and it's quite possible that the work doesn't work for you Playlife. It's quite literally all good!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

Whereas I really had to struggle to understand Byron Katie's teachings...I instantly understand and affirmed Tolle's teachings. Funny thing is - they say the same exact same thing!

Haha. I am kind of the opposite. I tried to get into the Power of Now, and couldn't really "get" it until after I'd read Katie. So, I agree that each person has to find what works for them. A lot of these teachers are saying the same message, just in different ways. If it's frustrating you to try to do The Work, then go to something else.

Pema Chodron is amazing. Just had to add that in.

[Lazarus]

you're viewing the world in black and white, life shouldn't be painful but it can be moments here and there in it

[Angela]

If you are really interested in delving into The Work, you can get free coaching by phone through Byron Katie's website. People who have gotten value from The Work volunteer to talk you through it.

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by Angela

If you are really interested in delving into The Work, you can get free coaching by phone through Byron Katie's website. People who have gotten value from The Work volunteer to talk you through it.

I don't know how interested I am. Surely there are people around who need that coaching more than me. And I live in Europe(could I call from here too?).

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Playlife

I don't know how interested I am. Surely there are people around who need that coaching more than me. And I live in Europe(could I call from here too?).

So, how long do you plan on being a dabbler in life?

[Playlife]

Quite long, it seems.

[Angela]

You're willing to talk about The Work, but you're not actually willing to DO The Work? That's what these coaches do -- they actually help you to do The Work. It's not a matter of some people "needing" it more than others.

[DEEJ]

Originally Posted by Angela

When you feel pain and you say, "I shouldn't be feeling this pain," you are arguing with reality. Reality doesn't care about your shoulds. That pain is not going to go away because you say you shouldn't feel it. In fact, the more you *should* it, the more tenaciously it's likely to hurt you.

If you feel pain and you say, "I should feel this pain because I am feeling this pain," then you are accepting the reality of your moment -- you're no longer resisting it. Fighting with the pain turns it into suffering, and it's amazing how once you stop fighting, the suffering stops, too. You may still feel the pain, but your resources are freed up to take your next right action -- maybe you will take a pain reliever, or maybe you will get out your heating pad, or maybe you will look inside for the lesson that the pain is trying to teach you, or maybe you'll learn to live with it. And maybe -- it was ALL suffering, and ZERO authentic pain, and when you let go of fighting with it, it *poof* disappears.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[uberinquisitive]

Originally Posted by Angela

So, how long do you plan on being a dabbler in life?

Now turn that statement around.

Sorry Angela, I couldn't help it! Thanks in advance for being a good sport!

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Playlife

What if it's not my pain? Ehh... does this one even qualify?

For example, "children in Africa shouldn't starve"? The reality is, they do. So, is their starvation then somehow justified? Deserved, even?

Are all "should"-s bad, then? I mean, if I say that sun shouldn't be hot, that's insane. But if I say that terrorists shouldn't blow up cars and buildings - while they do - that's also then insane? Terrorists should blow up stuff? Otherwise they wouldn't be terrorists, eh? Terrorists are like that, take it or leave it, you can resist it and cause yourself suffering, or you can accept it... Cooperate with terrorists, listen to them, maybe they ain't so bad after all...

Is famine acceptable? We shouldn't resist terrorists?

(Sorry for such political examples. I have others too though. )

Punishing yourself will not help them. Feeling guilty never helps anything.

"You'll never help the poor by being poorer.
You'll never help the sick by being sicker.
You'll never help the suffering by suffering."

[Angela]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

Now turn that statement around.

Sorry Angela, I couldn't help it! Thanks in advance for being a good sport!

Boy, you don't know how right you are! I just had a little breakthrough in that area, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for pointing that one out, Ubercore!

[uberinquisitive]

Originally Posted by Angela

Boy, you don't know how right you are! I just had a little breakthrough in that area, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for pointing that one out, Ubercore!

It's all love, Angela!

While I still don't "get" The Work - the "turn it around" aspect has been one of the most valuable/important ideas I've ever come across.

Playlife, in your initial posts ("life shouldn't be painful" in the bigger and general sense) - maybe the fundamental questions you're asking are:

"why do I feel so powerless?"
"why am I warm and safe while others are in such pain?"
"why can't I reconcile my logic with my emotions?"

Now, I don't know the answers to these questions. But, I have a sense that your journey to find the answers will be very rewarding.