Social disconnection... Thank you for reading.

[jwalls91]

Hello, my name is Justin Walls. Last night I had a revelation of sorts - an expression like none I've had before, and I felt I needed to find somewhere to publicize that expression and receive feedback. The thoughts I jotted down are below. I am wondering if anybody here has similar feelings, and in general I would love to hear your opinion about my dilemma. "Ignorance is Bliss", and by proxy the opposite is also true. Thank you in advance... here goes. (I apologize for the horrible grammar and run-on syntax)

I will make an attempt to convey my feelings here . . I shall make no endeavor towards colorful words or truth-masking ploys . . However, I fear I will not be able to express myself as I wish; my thoughts continually race faster than I can translate them into coherent statements. .

I feel so very limited, by my family, by my peers . . Held back by the general acceptance of ignorance and the repression of intelligence, respectively. . I find it difficult to manifest my frustrations in constructive ways; they typically result in raw anger and despair. . the most difficult part is the daily reinforcement of these views, the huge hulking façade we call “interaction”, of which I must take part in order to retain normality (although were isolation an option, it is one I would gladly choose), as this society requires normality and a certain anonymity to achieve success. . What, however, is success if not simply a set of rules defined by a culture, with none being correct and none being incorrect; the buildup of colossal overreactions resulting from our perpetually limited focus; tying into the awareness of a universal “ignorance bubble” surrounding each individual, a curtain of bliss from which few care to stray, and they are urged not to stray. . For true individuality negates the basic animal instinct of a herd mentality, and indeed we are naught but sheep. . I realize my views are relative, and though it may seem misanthropic and nihilistic, that is absolutely how I feel. . Perhaps I may never persuade another to believe my views, but so long as someone understands them I will be content. . Although in all honesty I wish I had someone to discuss these matters with. . This plane of understanding is intrinsically quite lonely, and hence quite depressing. .


Again, thank you for your time.

[Lauxa]

Hello Justin, I just wanted to let you know I read your post. You say you want some feedback and discussion, so I will comment briefly...

I think the truth is not "Ignorance is Bliss" but "Attachment is Suffering". You are building up all these separations between you and others. You value intelligence and individuality while others value herd mentality and ignorance. Therefore you are better than others. However, this is just your ego playing tricks on you. Your ego wants to be better, different, and special. Your ego wants to resent things as they are, because that forms a distinction and a boundary between ego and reality. You are attached to these opinions because you mistake them with who you are.

Putting time and energy into building ego-based portrayals of reality will always be isolating, because the ego needs isolation to define itself. You can join a group and add your ego to the collective ego, and this will somewhat expand the ego. But the group ego will still need to define itself by a separation from others, and thus experience a collective isolation.

[Revolution]

Justin, there are many different levels of awareness among individuals on this planet.

In my opinion the definition of success for a person of relatively low awareness would be something like: bringing a business off the ground, becoming a millionaire, earning a wage in the high or medium bracket and they would also probably mention material possessions such as big house, expensive car, luxury holidays, attractive wife, kids family etc etc.

The person with medium level awareness would probably define success as being a decent and honest person, having close relationships with friends, family etc., being employed in a job they enjoy which feels like they are making a contribution to society in some way.

Then comes the person of high awareness., in defining success they would probably speak of things such as enlightenment, mastery, wholeness, love, peace, being of service to others.

Now, once again - in my opinion the AVERAGE level of awareness currently present on this Earth is not particularly high relative to the rest of the universe.

What I'm about to say next might sound abit tiresome or cliche or whatever... but in reference to your concerns that you might be being dragged down by your friends, family peers etc. here is what I have to say:

YOU are the sole creator of you life. Everything and everyone and every event in it is a solely a product of everything you have thought, felt, said and done. Make no mistake about it.

So if you want to rise above the mediocrity so to speak then align your intent to be the person that you wanna be.

But I think you are looking for slightly more specific advice than just that so I say to you be carefull of those around you that seem to be settling for the ordinary life.
A good rule of thumb could be this: the more worthwhile the thing is that you have to do or say: the more you should do it in secret. Yes, thats right don't start boasting or even talking of your acheivments/dreams/goals to average people because they might feel that your light is outshining theirs and they might become jealous and angry.

[Christian223]

I get you, i have felt the same sometimes. I think society tryes to makes its own way to reach its own happyness, by means of reaching security, and pride. That facade you say is a model that brings pride and security to people, so they try to follow that model to achieve happyness, but its not really happyness.

If you present yourself with another model, they start to get un-comfortable because you are taking away their pride and their security, so they try to push you into their own ways to regain their feelings. This is bothering to some degree if you still dont live your values to the fullest, because if you do, nothing will be able to get to you, youll be confident in your beliefs no matter what.

Jesus bless you.

[Mewwy]

Justin, I can't help but feel very glad upon reading your post. I understand what you're talking about.

I actually suggest that you hold on to those thoughts because you made very valuable observations. You can believe those thoughts, but always be in a mood to question them also. This is just to make you reflect on different perspectives according to these observations that bring you down. And perhaps you will feel better too (although I'm not sure if feeling better is one of your desires.)

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by Christian223

I get you, i have felt the same sometimes. I think society tryes to makes its own way to reach its own happyness, by means of reaching security, and pride. That facade you say is a model that brings pride and security to people, so they try to follow that model to achieve happyness, but its not really happyness.

If you present yourself with another model, they start to get un-comfortable because you are taking away their pride and their security, so they try to push you into their own ways to regain their feelings. This is bothering to some degree if you still dont live your values to the fullest, because if you do, nothing will be able to get to you, youll be confident in your beliefs no matter what.

Jesus bless you.

I appreciate the post Christian it makes alot of sence.

Recently I was taken to a psychologist by my parents because they had some concerns with me. My behavioral patterns weren't exactly normal in their eyes and I guess I can agree with them. I guess I wasn't exactly sure how all these things fit::: A new perspective, a new mindset, everything. None of it really made too much sence to me and trying to explain some of these things to a psychologist didn't really work out too well lol.

i guess what I was really looking for is now that I've adopted and gained a new mindset/perspective... what now lol. I think I'll start to get a job and hopefully meet a lot of new wonderful people in the process. Living my values will help me greatly and hopefully I won't bump heads with my old perspective anymore. =/

[jwalls91]

Thank you, everyone. I have read your replies and am considering them with the utmost objectiveness. I appreciate your feedback greatly and will do my best to put it to good use. We all have unique viewpoints and I'm grateful you have shared yours with me.

Lauxa, your post is exceptionally intriguing to me - in essence you are making the conjecture that my self-image wishes to project itself above "the rest", and hence assumes positions that are not truly who I am. Am I correct? That my sub-conscious assumes positions that it views as supremist/elitist so it feels like an individual? Although consciously I do not feel egotistical and I do not understand how my ego could be such a seperate entity, I believe anything is possible and I am completely open to proposed courses of action. Basically - How do I prevent my ego from attempting to foist itself above society by adopting these views?

[Lauxa]

Hi Justin, I recently posted on this board about some anger/resentment issues I need to overcome and several people recommended I read A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle. My comments are heavily influenced by the ideas I have been reading in this book. If the ideas intrigue you, I would highly recommend getting your hands on a copy for yourself.

It is not your sub-conscious that wants to feel superior, it is your unconscious thought, or ego. In essence, you have confused who you are with the voice in your head (your ego), and so you believe every insane story your ego comes up with (all egos are insane, and the goal of every ego is to separate itself from others). To prevent your ego from controlling you, all you need to do is to become aware of what it is doing. The book is helpful because it lays out several common strategies/thought patterns the ego can use, making it easier to become aware of what is happening when those thought patterns arise.

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by jwalls91

Thank you, everyone. I have read your replies and am considering them with the utmost objectiveness. I appreciate your feedback greatly and will do my best to put it to good use. We all have unique viewpoints and I'm grateful you have shared yours with me.

Lauxa, your post is exceptionally intriguing to me - in essence you are making the conjecture that my self-image wishes to project itself above "the rest", and hence assumes positions that are not truly who I am. Am I correct? That my sub-conscious assumes positions that it views as supremist/elitist so it feels like an individual? Although consciously I do not feel egotistical and I do not understand how my ego could be such a seperate entity, I believe anything is possible and I am completely open to proposed courses of action. Basically - How do I prevent my ego from attempting to foist itself above society by adopting these views?

What I've found is that because we live in a mostly mental/mind identified world...it only makes sence to make beliefs about this mental/mind identified position. On one hand we still maintain our deep consciousness and being with what is, and yet also make beliefs on how the world exactly is at this time. Furthermore one knows not to take these beliefs "too" seriously as that is exactly what they are... beliefs.

[jwalls91]

I am taking your opinion into great consideration, as it is quite viable - my ego must be getting the better of me, because I definitely do not perceive my thoughts as being composed of "ego" and "self"; they seem as one. I greatly appreciate your input and will check into A New Earth.

[Fullcrum]

Hmm...interesting.

I'm gonna try a different approach from one that I usually take in my posts. Instead of focusing on the positive, I'm gonna stir the emotional pot. It's gonna be caustic, but for any emotions that arise in you, KNOW that they are signs, directions, lampposts to where you need to re-examine your world view. Your perspective, like most of ours (probably mine too in ways I don't even know yet), is limited. Try not to take this too personally .

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You say you feel limited by the acceptance of ignorance, but are you not also ignorant of happiness and feeling good? Are you not ignorant of interacting with others, of the true "herd" mentality that most people live with on a daily basis? If you truly understood the herd mentality, I do not think you would be so quick to judge others for having it.

Are you not also a follower? A sheep? Where did this feeling inside you that you describe come from? You weren't born with it, obviously. Babies don't know this stuff. It was conditioned from outside sources. Maybe Neitsczhe; I don't know. Do you think a random person in some tribal culture could ever feel the way you do, or express your views in whatever language they speak? Of course not! This view you hold is a byproduct of the culture you live in. Understand that you are not a special snowflake, nor are these ideas. It may feel that way, heaven knows, but they are not.

There's obviously all this stuff going on around you, too much to process all of it. So you ask how do you stop the ego from hoisting itself above society? The answer is that it is a question of focus.

You say you are intellectually and creatively stifled by others. Is that true? Is that really what stifles you - your family and friends? Would it really be impossible for you to really channel all the creativity you wanted even with your external influences? You see, you have herd mentality, too, as much as any other person. You wish the people around you would VALIDATE your wants and desires so that you would have the "permission" to follow them. It's the same herd mentality. Isn't that hypocritical?

Are any of these things really BAD? That's for you to decide, but I'd wager, probably not. For example, from personal observation, I'd wager that EVERYONE is born with herd mentality. With that in mind, what are you going to do about it? What PATH will you take knowing this to be true, at least for 99.9% of people? Surround yourselves with those who are more independent, using herd mentality to your advantage maybe?

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I highly respect you for putting your views out there like that so that we could dissect them and help you out. It's tough sh*t . Through this process, you will remove that which stifles you. You will choose your path, not have it decided by your emotional responses. You'll eventually live a life of your own design. And that's where the glory is to be had.

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

Hmm...interesting.

I'm gonna try a different approach from one that I usually take in my posts. Instead of focusing on the positive, I'm gonna stir the emotional pot. It's gonna be caustic, but for any emotions that arise in you, KNOW that they are signs, directions, lampposts to where you need to re-examine your world view. Your perspective, like most of ours (probably mine too in ways I don't even know yet), is limited. Try not to take this too personally .

------------------------------------------------------------

You say you feel limited by the acceptance of ignorance, but are you not also ignorant of happiness and feeling good? Are you not ignorant of interacting with others, of the true "herd" mentality that most people live with on a daily basis? If you truly understood the herd mentality, I do not think you would be so quick to judge others for having it.

Are you not also a follower? A sheep? Where did this feeling inside you that you describe come from? You weren't born with it, obviously. Babies don't know this stuff. It was conditioned from outside sources. Maybe Neitsczhe; I don't know. Do you think a random person in some tribal culture could ever feel the way you do, or express your views in whatever language they speak? Of course not! This view you hold is a byproduct of the culture you live in. Understand that you are not a special snowflake, nor are these ideas. It may feel that way, heaven knows, but they are not.

There's obviously all this stuff going on around you, too much to process all of it. So you ask how do you stop the ego from hoisting itself above society? The answer is that it is a question of focus.

You say you are intellectually and creatively stifled by others. Is that true? Is that really what stifles you - your family and friends? Would it really be impossible for you to really channel all the creativity you wanted even with your external influences? You see, you have herd mentality, too, as much as any other person. You wish the people around you would VALIDATE your wants and desires so that you would have the "permission" to follow them. It's the same herd mentality. Isn't that hypocritical?

Are any of these things really BAD? That's for you to decide, but I'd wager, probably not. For example, from personal observation, I'd wager that EVERYONE is born with herd mentality. With that in mind, what are you going to do about it? What PATH will you take knowing this to be true, at least for 99.9% of people? Surround yourselves with those who are more independent, using herd mentality to your advantage maybe?

--------------------------------------------

I highly respect you for putting your views out there like that so that we could dissect them and help you out. It's tough sh*t . Through this process, you will remove that which stifles you. You will choose your path, not have it decided by your emotional responses. You'll eventually live a life of your own design. And that's where the glory is to be had.

you know what....I'm not sure how ironic this is or how extremely coincidental this is (I know theres no such thing as coincidences =)) but I just got done watching Pleasantville on FX and it's amazing how many lessons/values that pop up in that movie. I never realised until I watched it today and I totally understood everything they were saying. At the end Tobey Maquire was like "Nothing good and nothing bad is supposed to happen you are beautiful just the way you are" (something to that extent) It just totally amazed me and almost stopped me in my tracks. It was out of this world

[jwalls91]

Wow Fullcrum, I must say I am greatly appreciative of your post. Now I must be off, to analyze your points in great detail. I would be doing you an injustice were I to respond now, with such little thought behind it. I humbly thank you for your input.

[jwalls91]

You say you feel limited by the acceptance of ignorance, but are you not also ignorant of happiness and feeling good? Are you not ignorant of interacting with others, of the true "herd" mentality that most people live with on a daily basis? If you truly understood the herd mentality, I do not think you would be so quick to judge others for having it.

I do interact with others, but that’s just what it is: An act. I partake in the “herd mentality” in such a sense that I act to follow social trends and linguistic changes. I act to fit certain stereotypes and perform according to the norms for my age and social status. Yet I absolutely feel it is all false, meaning I would operate differently were I able to let my true self out without facing persecution or negative reinforcement. Basically, in response to your question – I do not feel I’m ignorant, as I do partake in the “herd mentality”, and that should grant me some knowledge of it even if I don’t revel in its qualities. Having said that, the outlook of the general “herd” doesn’t feel right to me, which is what I was attempting to express.

Are you not also a follower? A sheep? Where did this feeling inside you that you describe come from? You weren't born with it, obviously. Babies don't know this stuff. It was conditioned from outside sources. Maybe Neitsczhe; I don't know. Do you think a random person in some tribal culture could ever feel the way you do, or express your views in whatever language they speak? Of course not! This view you hold is a byproduct of the culture you live in. Understand that you are not a special snowflake, nor are these ideas. It may feel that way, heaven knows, but they are not.

From my limited knowledge of psychology and sociology, I understand that everyone is a statistic. I do not claim absolute uniqueness. I simply wonder if I am part of a smaller subset, which will inherently make me feel atypical. I realize that 90% of our personality is imposed on us by our culture. What I am trying to convey is the fact that I feel the other 10%, social interaction, does not sit right with me – it is the nature of my smaller subset to have conflicting viewpoints with the mainstream. As such, perhaps I wish to find MY “herd”, so that I may fit in and escape feelings of alienation.

You say you are intellectually and creatively stifled by others. Is that true? Is that really what stifles you - your family and friends? Would it really be impossible for you to really channel all the creativity you wanted even with your external influences? You see, you have herd mentality, too, as much as any other person. You wish the people around you would VALIDATE your wants and desires so that you would have the "permission" to follow them. It's the same herd mentality. Isn't that hypocritical?

I believe in the one regard you are very correct. I wish to find that group where I “fit in”. However, my frustration in channeling my creativity lies in the fact that since I do not fit in to the group I interact with, my creativity is misunderstood, unappreciated and generally looked down upon. Perhaps my strike towards the general population was founded by these principles, and I misinterpreted my feelings – because in reality I’m simply looking for MY herd.

Perhaps I'm just being difficult But I must say, I don't feel like I am expressing myself efficiently enough. . . All your responses are quite valid, yet they seem to be slightly maladjusted to my case. I am making progress though! I realized that I am looking to join the mental state of those I purposely disassociate with! Even if I were to get no replies from this day forward, I would have made progress and I am extremely grateful for everyone's input.

[Fullcrum]

Hm, interesting. You see, that's more of a growth related mindset, so nice job on the growth!

I was hesitant to recommend the ol' dose of Tolle, but now I'm sure it'll be really useful to you. So get the Tolle book recommended in the thread, and maybe also The Power of Now.

I say that you will create a group of followers if you let go of your negative attitudes towards "putting on an act", and just act however you want. Be authentic - show your true self that you feel you're hiding. People are attracted to people who are REAL, not fakes or trying to "get" something, so show your realness. Realize that socializing is in fact quite fun and useful too. One of the way it is useful is to find like-minded people interested in growth, or even just into the stuff you like, and it is quite enjoyable. So don't worry about it, and persue finding a group, or better yet MAKING your own group without reservation.

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

Hm, interesting. You see, that's more of a growth related mindset, so nice job on the growth!

I was hesitant to recommend the ol' dose of Tolle, but now I'm sure it'll be really useful to you. So get the Tolle book recommended in the thread, and maybe also The Power of Now.

I say that you will create a group of followers if you let go of your negative attitudes towards "putting on an act", and just act however you want. Be authentic - show your true self that you feel you're hiding. People are attracted to people who are REAL, not fakes or trying to "get" something, so show your realness. Realize that socializing is in fact quite fun and useful too. One of the way it is useful is to find like-minded people interested in growth, or even just into the stuff you like, and it is quite enjoyable. So don't worry about it, and persue finding a group, or better yet MAKING your own group without reservation.

hmm I think I agree with jwalls last post. It seems that as you go through this change you get less and less compatible with people where as I'm sure it is actually quite the opposite. As you are moving into complete oneness it actually feels as if you are moving into compete seperateness. It really messes with your brain lol.

I'm kinda at the part that you talk about Fullcrum; finding a group and showing my true self. I've recently come across some things that are deeply sunk into my being. I've found it kind of hard to express these things and I'm not sure why...but I feel really good whenever I think of them. Maybe this is something for me to ponder for a little while and now that I think of it, it may be just my fears that are restricting me from some of these things. Nevertheless, I couldn't be happier at this present moment and very grateful for all the things that have been given to me.

God bless.