I feel like I'm dying inside...

[Chado2423]

I don't really feel alive anymore...
I've sought help but that help didn't really help at all... I'm so lost and just don't know what to do... I think I'm going crazy... all I want to do is die so that I won't have to live the rest of my life this way... My mind is on auto-pilot and I can't seem to gain back the control over it... it never shuts up it worries about everything, and its driving me crazy... My anxiety is intense and everything is so dark, is there a way out of this misery?

[JimOfferman]

Take the wheel and drive!

[irish63]

Hello chado, I am new to this forum but from I have read in your posts you are obviously clinically depressed.I too have delt with this "demon" as I like to call it, for almost my entire life. I have tried EVERYTHING short of the electric shock therapy. At this point what I have concluded is this is like the life of a recovering alcoholic, we have to take it day by day hour by hour. I just try to focus on the day today, and I tell myself "today I will make it thru" literally I do this whenever I feel like I just dont want to live and even plan a way out by suicide. You cannot just shake this off all you can do is learn to cope with this afliction as best as you can. I am highly functional at times and at others barely
alive...so thats when the living starts to go just minute by minute. People cannot help you with sympathy because this is your 'demon" so you MUST learn how to live with it. Medication is not the cure but rather a tool help you cope. I find that distraction by way of whatever slightly intrests you can help in those very dark moments. I do not know your family situation but even they may not understand. I live with my professional mask on everyday and function somewhat well then when that feeling kicks in I start the living minute by minute process. I hope you realize you are not alone many of us live among others and know exactly what you deal with daily....I try also to not dwell on the dark side...when that starts direct your thought to another one of a better quality, I know you are thinking "yeah right" but it works. TRAIN YOUR BRAIN, YOU NEED TO USE IT FOR YOUR GOOD DO NOT LET IT USE YOU! your brain is a tool. Please realize that these dark moments pass. I am sorry for such a long post but I felt compelled to reply and just give you my experience. Irish63

[bellemeadows]

Every death is succeeded by a rebirth. The night is always followed by the dawn. Morning will come for you, and you will be born again into a new experience of who and what you are. You will find passion and love again.

But don't look to the future. The experience you are having is dark; so as best you can, just hold yourself gently in your heart as you spend time with yourself. Be with yourself in this dark time with as much love and kindness as you can.

The Buddha teaches that going to the root of our suffering and seeing it clearly is the beginning of freedom.

One tool of mindfulness that can cut through our numbing trance is inquiry. As we ask ourselves questions about our experience, our attention gets engaged. We might begin by scanning our body, noticing what we are feeling, expecially in the throat, chest abdomen and stomach, and then asking, "What is happening?" We might also ask, "What wants my attention right now?" or, "What is asking for acceptance?" Then we attend, with genuine interest and care, listening to our heart, body and mind.

Inquiry is not a kind of analytical digging --- we are not trying to figure out, "Why do I feel this sadness?" This would only stir up more thoughts.

Excerpt from Radical Acceptance, by Tara Brach, PH.D.

I know that you will find your heart, and your joy again. Blessings from Belle,

[Christian223]

Try beign more specific, what worries you?, death?, the future?, the un-known?. Read the bible, look for God, pray to him.

You may also want to try EFT, EFT Provides Impressive Health and Emotional Freedom--New Discovery Often Works Where Nothing Else, try it.

[PerDev]

any tragedy comes to life is for the specific time period - Attitute of this too shall pass is very helpful ..

And it actually passed and we grow from it also, I am giving gurantee to you that it will pass

[Marco Polo]

Well truth be told, all you've got is yourself. Why are you expecting the solution to come from outside yourself? I don't understand that. Look deep inside and ask: what do I need? What do I have to do? It's up to YOU to take control again. It's been done before, by so many other people.

So no offence or anything but what are you expecting from this forum? Sympathy, practical advice - or what? If you're looking for sympathy I think you got it already. There's about a gazillion people here genuinely eager to give you guidance, if and only if you're willing to listen.

And yes there's a way out of your misery - for sure (although that seemed more like a rhetorical question on your part). Go for a jog, take a cold shower, speak to a close friend and read a book.

(physiologically depression is quite often just a lack of brain activity, so anything that gets those neurons fired up will be good for you).

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Well truth be told, all you've got is yourself. Why are you expecting the solution to come from outside yourself? I don't understand that. Look deep inside and ask: what do I need? What do I have to do? It's up to YOU to take control again. It's been done before, by so many other people.

So no offence or anything but what are you expecting from this forum? Sympathy, practical advice - or what? If you're looking for sympathy I think you got it already. There's about a gazillion people here genuinely eager to give you guidance, if and only if you're willing to listen.

And yes there's a way out of your misery - for sure (although that seemed more like a rhetorical question on your part). Go for a jog, take a cold shower, speak to a close friend and read a book.

(physiologically depression is quite often just a lack of brain activity, so anything that gets those neurons fired up will be good for you).

Looking for help, looking for solution...not sympathy... Symptoms worsening, feeling like I'm dying....afraid to leave the house now too... panic attacks, anxiety, depression.. agoraphobia... everything terrible. We're moving next month and I just hope I'll be able to handle the move... Looking for a way out, but afraid there might not be. I may live like this the rest of my life... but hope not. Brain not normal... deteriorating.

[Marco Polo]

Man, OK, just be veeery patient with yourself - the the solution is never out of reach (even though you right now seem to believe that). Perhaps you haven't seen the light yet... but you'd be foolish to stop looking for it.

There is ALWAYS a way out, no matter what you say. Just because the solution isn't obvious right now, doesn't mean we can't find it right!

The human will is strong, and yes even you are human I believe - as long as we're alive that small flicker of hope will never die out. It's so innate, so hardwired - that still small voice within saying maybe, just maybe, I can get myself through this. And the solution will always be there, like I said, it's just a matter of locating it.

I need you to say one thing, just one tiny little sentence:

I will never give up hope.

In fact now that I took the time to write this out I'm positively expecting you to say it... say it in your head first, then just copy-paste it and put it in your next post, OK? Cool, we'll take it from there.

[drummbellina]

Decide what you want and what you don't want in your life for a start.

Meanwhile...Excercise such as a jogging or swimming, anything to get the heart pumping and wake your body up, will give you a boost. Avoid depressants such as smoking and alcohol. Get some good food into your body. Drink lots of water.

Once you are more clear of what's wrong with your life you can work towards your new one! Think of it as a fun project. Write lists, make goals, set yourself mini challenges. Post here again and we'll help.

Take care of yourself, literally!

Cassie x

[ZHereford]

Hi Chado,

First and foremost, make sure that you don't have a medical condition or nutritional deficiency. It's surprising how your attitude can improve with the right vitamins and exercise. If your physical health is lacking, certainly your emotional health will be.

Secondly, you may be in a seemingly deep, impossible rut out of which the only way out is determination, focus and action. If that is the case, you must take the first step and it will require courage and willpower. I understand you don't think counseling is helpful so you'll have to take responsibility and do it on your own.

Life can be challenging and difficult so you can either give up or you can decide to take the bull by the horns and deal with it. Here are a couple of articles I wrote that may give you some ideas on how to get started:
Live a Life of Courage
10 Tips For Maintaining Mental and Emotional Health

I wish you well, Chado!

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

Hi Chado,

I understand you don't think counseling is helpful so you'll have to take responsibility and do it on your own.

Counseling wasn't helpful because it put me in debt, debt I can't pay, and I still feel the same way on the medication or not on it... I still have the same problems either way... I just don't know what to do... I just want to die, sometimes, but I'm too much of a coward to take my own life... I'm scared of living and I'm scared of dying... The only medical condition is mental illness and diabetes, or at least so I have been told...

The Intention = to not be in pain anymore, to be relieved of my depression, but I am afraid I may live with it the rest of my life!

[fwellers]

Do you have any real life support system ? ( friends, family ) ?

Some suggestions:

Get a pet to love

find something simple you can do to volunteer your time to help somebody. ( drive someone to a coke-enders meeting, or the doctor etc, do a shift in a soup kitchen etc.. you get the drift. ---- This is a big one. It can take your thoughts away from obsession on yourself.

Remember that each day is NEW. You only have to do one day at a time.

Remember that you are not your thoughts. They can come and they can go, but you are NOT them.

Good vibes going your way bud. {{{{{{ }}}}}}

[awakentransform]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

The Intention = to not be in pain anymore, to be relieved of my depression, but I am afraid I may live with it the rest of my life!

Creating an intention is a good start. Now finetune it to be more positive. Although your intention is to "not be in pain anymore, to be relieved of depression" your mind will hear PAIN, DEPRESSION.

Perhaps set an intention to feel good, to be happy, to live courageously...you get the idea.

Then start small. Affirm that "today I will feel good for one hour" or ten minutes or whatever. Then congratulate yourself for succeeding. Don't focus on the other 23 hours of being miserable. Think of it as building your happiness muscle. Some people are born with muscular physiques and some of us have to work at it.

[Logodae]

Chado: Your depression sounds like it is getting worse. As you've already figured out, this is very dangerous. You don't really want to die, but your depression is making you desperate. You need help. You just need better help than what you got before.

Three questions: What medication did you take? How long did you take it? And when it didn't help, did your doctor try increasing the dose and/or trying you on a different type of antidepressant?

I think you should make an appointment with a psychiatrist today -- whenever "today" is that you read this. I know you tried medication and it didn't work, but that doesn't mean medication can't work for you. You may have gotten the wrong type for your type of depression. Or maybe you just needed a higher dose -- the doses that different people people need vary, and the "starter" dose is often low. A psychiatrist should work with you to figure out what you need. If your old one didn't, find a new one.

Either way: Make the appointment. It could save your life.

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by Logodae

Chado: Your depression sounds like it is getting worse. As you've already figured out, this is very dangerous. You don't really want to die, but your depression is making you desperate. You need help. You just need better help than what you got before.

Three questions: What medication did you take? How long did you take it? And when it didn't help, did your doctor try increasing the dose and/or trying you on a different type of antidepressant?

I think you should make an appointment with a psychiatrist today -- whenever "today" is that you read this. I know you tried medication and it didn't work, but that doesn't mean medication can't work for you. You may have gotten the wrong type for your type of depression. Or maybe you just needed a higher dose -- the doses that different people people need vary, and the "starter" dose is often low. A psychiatrist should work with you to figure out what you need. If your old one didn't, find a new one.

Either way: Make the appointment. It could save your life.

I CAN"T AFFORD TO GO TO THE DOCTOR AND I HAVE NO SUPPORT

[bellemeadows]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

I CAN"T AFFORD TO GO TO THE DOCTOR AND I HAVE NO SUPPORT

To those with advice on the need to work through the medical community, how does someone who has no monetary resources do that? Are there some suggestions you could provide? This is the 'smart people' forum -- so perhaps you have some knowledge or ideas for Chad that might be helpful.

To Chad -- well I don't have a lot of answers for you (guess I'm not thaaaat smart) -- but I send my prayers and blessings.

Belle,

[Rafael Perez]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

I don't really feel alive anymore...
I've sought help but that help didn't really help at all... I'm so lost and just don't know what to do... I think I'm going crazy... all I want to do is die so that I won't have to live the rest of my life this way... My mind is on auto-pilot and I can't seem to gain back the control over it... it never shuts up it worries about everything, and its driving me crazy... My anxiety is intense and everything is so dark, is there a way out of this misery?

This is where I was a few months ago. I wondered if I stayed still long enough if my body would just expire. I wanted to just die, get it over with - it seems like the only thing in our life that is a "for sure" thing.

My marriage had fallen apart
I had lost my cars
I had lost my job
two of my kids left to live with their mother
I had lost my best friend
I was told I would be homeless in a week
I had been kicked out of my church
I was told God was no longer with me

Suddenly something happened. Since the fear was no longer there of losing these things I had a moment of clarity.

After a month long depressive state in which I did absolutely nothing I got up. I had purpose in my life. Slowly in my mind I put the puzzle pieces together that lead me to where I was.

I knew that this had all happened because I wanted it to.

I was miserable in my marriage
My cars were junk and I hated them
Hated my job
My best friend had become a different person
The house I was in was falling apart
The church environment had changed (I did not like it)

God never left my side. (what ever you call it, I call it God) I realized that God had never left because he was a part of me. I was never alone, I was perfect and everything that happened in my life was perfect. It was what I wanted.

These things were a long time coming and took the path of least resistence in order to occur. At the time I felt like a victim of circumstance.

I was in control, I was always in control. The first lie that you tell yourself is that you are imperfect, that you are just not good enough. Because of this horrible lie you will justify keeping your self in a state of misery.

At that point I started to focus internally and no longer blame my circumstances for my misery, I took responsability. I had lied to myself and others for so long to keep this reality intact afraid to move out of my comfort zone.

I started to notice events that had taken place in my life because of the eggshell limitations I had formed around me. Fear governed my life and I made decisions based on fear. This fear dominates every aspect of your life.

Your entire state of being creates a world in which you are most comfortable, and your dominant beliefs are what create this comfort. If you are miserable it is your fear that creates most of these dominant beliefs.

Take a close look at what I define as eggshell feelings (there are more but this will give you an idea of what to look for in your life)

• Fear
• Resentment
• Guilt
• Boredom
• Anger
• Annoyance
• Worry
• Heartbreak
• Insecurity
• Depression
• Worthlessness
• Any feelings that make you feel like a victim
• Any feeling that makes you feel like you have no control
• Feeling like you owe someone
• Feeling like someone owes you
• Feeling like you need someone or they need you
• Feeling like you need something
• Feeling like you have wronged
• Feeling like you’ve been wronged
• Following someone else’s expectations of you
• Making promises you cannot keep
• Feeling obligated
• Feeling dumb, stupid, or negative about self
• Feeling small and ugly
• Feeling judgmental
• Feeling like you may get caught in a lie

Alot of the lies that we tell ourself is that we are doing someone good by meeting their expectations and not being our self. This is a fear of being left alone, a fear of someone going away.

You are never alone and you should consider being who you want to be and turn your focus from others. This focus should be inward, what kind of relationship do you have with yourself... How do you talk to yourself:

• I can’t do it
• I do not have the energy
• I’m not strong enough
• I don’t know what to do
• My life is horrible
• I always make mistakes
• I’m stupid sometimes
• I always have bad things happen
• I am so unlucky
• I always attract the worst people
• I have no control over my life

Consider how you talk to you or others about who you are. Take every moment in your world to live for the moment...

What I mean by "live for the moment" is that nothing exist other than right now. There is no past to look at, and no future to dread... All of your time is happening right now.

So take control of you. Only you have this control.

[Apollia]

Hi Chado. I've got lots of unpayable debt too - credit card debt which grows every month at the rate of probably around $300 per month (and that rate is ever-worsening) from late fees, overlimit fees, and interest. At this point, the minimum payments my credit card companies are asking for are so high I'd never be able to get caught up even if I wanted to (which I don't, since I don't want to pay those legalized criminals one more cent).

This all used to depress and infuriate me tremendously, but, it doesn't bother me as much anymore ever since I stopped the hopeless struggle to pay those crooks, and because I've grown more appreciative that thanks to my family, the consequences of this aren't as bad as they could have been. I'm not about to end up homeless because of it, and, if my bank account gets levied, no problem, I'll just never use that bank account again. And, if I get a wage garnishment put on me, fine, it's a good reason to never get a regular job with a boss.

I have little independence because I have no money, and I don't think I even have the resources to go bankrupt, but at least I'm not forced to choose between slaving at a job or starving/going homeless/etc. So, all in all, while my situation is far from what I desire, and sometimes I feel similar to the way you do, at least it's not all bad.

It sounds like your situation might be similar in some ways - are you living with family? In that case, hopefully even if your finances to go to heck you're at least not in danger of homelessness. You might be in a better situation than you realize. At least you have internet access, and it doesn't sound like you're worried about ending up homeless or where your next meal is coming from.

How much free time do you have? It's a precious resource, many people don't have very much of it, so if you have a significant amount, I hope you realize there are many people who would probably tremendously envy that aspect of your situation. Free time is useful for so many things, you can use it for anything you please - studying new things, learning new skills, creating a website, figuring out how to make money somehow, and tons of other possibilities.

On the down side, it can also leave you with lots of uninterrupted time in which to brood over your problems, and feel bored and aimless, and sink ever-deeper into an emotional rut. This is something which happens to me less often if I have some regularly-scheduled distractions, even if it's just a favorite TV show. Sometimes I have to make an actual effort to stop myself from wallowing in misery and get myself focused on something more useful than thinking about all the ways in which my life is a mess and making myself feel miserable and hopeless. It's very important for me to try to keep myself in a good mood so I stay motivated enough to do things to improve my situation, and so all the free time I have doesn't go to waste.

It is definitely rather frustrating that nothing I can do at this moment will instantaneously fix my situation the way I want it to be - all the possible solutions available to me are going to take time, and they're uncertain to boot. But, unless a miracle happens, I guess the only solution is just to press on and try not to let it get me down - keep on developing my skills, and maybe one day I'll be capable of earning myself some decent money someday. Or maybe I could figure out how to better monetize my existing website, or figure out how to better capitalize on my existing skills.

I hate even having to think about money (as well as having to try to stomach paying income taxes - if not for taxes I'd probably be a lot more enthusiastic about trying to make money, but I just can't _stand_ being stolen from). But, I guess it's just an unavoidable part of the life of anyone who wasn't born rich, i.e., the majority of people. Well, unless one is willing to go out into the wilderness like Survivorman, or something. But most people are in the same boat of having to struggle and slave to scrape by.

Anyhow, I wish I could help out more. If I were rich your debt problems would be over. Someday I hope I do end up rich, because I'd love to just give money away to people who need it, and thereby also prevent unscrupulous credit card companies and other loan sharks from profiting anymore from people's misfortune and from ruining our society by luring people into the indentured servitude of debt.

Giving money away seems to me like it would be the most direct solution to quite a few people's depression (since many people's depression is simply a consequence of lack of money), but, unfortunately, most people (including me) aren't in a position to do that despite wanting to.

So, I guess all I can provide at this time are things I can afford to give for free, like my thoughts.

Here are some articles which have helped me: Most People Are Depressed For a Very Good Reason

Overcoming Depression by Steve Pavlina

How to Operate Your Brain Perfectly by Nick Pagan (a file in PDF format)

I find that I feel much better emotionally if I keep myself busy and focused on some interesting activity (especially if it's possibly going to be of practical benefit in the future), and avoid frittering my time and energy away on things that are unlikely to benefit me in the long run.

Without being too hard on myself and depriving myself of doing anything at all fun, of course - that's another thing I have to be careful not to do. I like Steve's idea of making work time scarce and leisure time abundant, so then you'll automatically feel eager to work in the limited time you have available to you to work: Overcoming Procrastination. I've procrastinated about really putting those tips into practice, though - I have such an unstructured, unscheduled life, it would probably actually be much better for me if I made some more rules for myself and my time. But, I think it will probably work if I ever start doing it.

Another thing that cheers me up and is very satisfying for me is to have a website. The thought of being able to influence and hopefully improve the world despite having hardly any money is comforting to me, and theoretically I ought to be able to make much more money from my website than I have been. I've gotten $34.50 in PayPal donations in nearly two years of asking for them, which is at least better than $0.

I also never know when someone might come along and decide to just send me a few thousand dollars or something (or maybe 10,000 people will spontaneously decide to each send me $1 ), so, even though I know it's unlikely, and it has never happened yet, the thought at least gives me hope.

I also figure the more useful and interesting stuff I put up on my website, the more likely it is that I'll get more donations, so, I always have some project or other to work on - which is helpful in keeping me from feeling as if I have nothing at all worthwhile to work on, and keeping my mind off my problems.

Anyhow, I don't know if any of this will help, but, I hope things improve for you soon!

Best wishes,
Apollia

[Logodae]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

I CAN"T AFFORD TO GO TO THE DOCTOR AND I HAVE NO SUPPORT

Damn. I assume you were insured, since you'd been on meds previously. Where do you live? In my area some mental health care providers offer a sliding scale, so you can pay less based on your income. But I have no idea how widespread that is...

There's another thing you may be able to do, depending on how much energy and willpower you have at this point. Unfortunately, you won't really see results for a month or more... and the effect may not be as significant as you'd get from (the right) antidepressant. But it's free, so I think it's worth trying, if you can:

30 minutes of moderate exercise, five days (or more) a week.

I know, I know, this is like the people telling you to drink water, go for a walk, and "think positive." But there are studies that show that moderate exercise can help depression -- and it causes changes in brain chemistry similar to antidepressants.

So. Moderate exercise is (depending on your fitness level) jogging or brisk walking -- if you're just walking at a normal speed, that's not going to help. You've got to walk like you're in a serious hurry, and you've got to keep it up for thirty minutes, straight. You should definitely feel tired when you're done.

The other thing I've found that is a good "moderate" exercise is to climb up and down stairs. You'll feel kind of ridiculous at first, but you get used to it. And you can do it even if the weather is bad, which is a huge advantage when you need to exercise every day.

Anyway. I know this sort of thing is incredibly, incredibly hard when you're depressed. I wouldn't blame you if you said you couldn't do it. But if you can, I think you should give it a try. There's a real chance that it could help... and the only possible side effect is improved physical fitness.

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by Logodae

Damn. I assume you were insured, since you'd been on meds previously. Where do you live? In my area some mental health care providers offer a sliding scale, so you can pay less based on your income. But I have no idea how widespread that is...

There's another thing you may be able to do, depending on how much energy and willpower you have at this point. Unfortunately, you won't really see results for a month or more... and the effect may not be as significant as you'd get from (the right) antidepressant. But it's free, so I think it's worth trying, if you can:

30 minutes of moderate exercise, five days (or more) a week.

I know, I know, this is like the people telling you to drink water, go for a walk, and "think positive." But there are studies that show that moderate exercise can help depression -- and it causes changes in brain chemistry similar to antidepressants.

So. Moderate exercise is (depending on your fitness level) jogging or brisk walking -- if you're just walking at a normal speed, that's not going to help. You've got to walk like you're in a serious hurry, and you've got to keep it up for thirty minutes, straight. You should definitely feel tired when you're done.

The other thing I've found that is a good "moderate" exercise is to climb up and down stairs. You'll feel kind of ridiculous at first, but you get used to it. And you can do it even if the weather is bad, which is a huge advantage when you need to exercise every day.

Anyway. I know this sort of thing is incredibly, incredibly hard when you're depressed. I wouldn't blame you if you said you couldn't do it. But if you can, I think you should give it a try. There's a real chance that it could help... and the only possible side effect is improved physical fitness.

I walk around alot because of my anxiety... My problem is sitting still, not being mobile.

[ZHereford]

Hey Chado,

What are you willing to do to help yourself?

Exercise is a good anxiety reliever if you do the right kind. Taking good care of your physical health helps. Also you have to find strategies that will work for you. Music is a great mood enhancer. Reading inspiring literature also helps. Keep trying.

If you can't afford medication or find support elsewhere, (the great people on these forums are and have been very supportive) you'll have learn to be your own best friend. Kick it up a notch Chado!

[booblies]

No doubt the feeling you are having will pass and you will become wise from it...keep trying and sooner or later you will get it!

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

I walk around alot because of my anxiety... My problem is sitting still, not being mobile.

Your problem is sitting still, really? Strange... In some other thread of yours, you rencently wrote to me

Originally Posted by Chado

I've never walked two hours a day in my life, nor do I plan to. But I do go for short strolls...

So which one is it? Seems difficult for me not to walk two hours a day when you have a hard time not doing it...

I (and many others) already told you to go for a fast walk every day, and to eat healthy. You don't do it, so don't tell us that nothing worked. You did not even try.

We've showered you with love and advice for months now (for those who don't know Chad, just check all threads started by him...). You didn't try anything of what we came up with. So don't complain. And don't expect me to pity you. You don't do anything to get better. Whining here won't bring you any further.

Originally Posted by Chado2423

all I want to do is die

Yet another lie. If that was really the case, you'd be dead by now, not posting here in order to get some sympathy.

I wish I could kick your butt. And don't think I'm being angry at you, I'm not. Kicking your butt is the only action I can think of that would be truly loving towards you now.

As long as you get always more love and attention here, you won't change anything. I wish everybody would stop being nice to you. Out of love for you, Chad, cuz we love you. I know your life is strictly your responsibility - still, I wish this forum wouldn't support, allow and feed your current state of mind any longer.

[Apollia]

Rose of Cairo wrote:

I (and many others) already told you to go for a fast walk every day, and to eat healthy. You don't do it, so don't tell us that nothing worked. You did not even try.

Actually, judging by his most recent post above, it looks like maybe Chado _did_ take your advice and now maybe he walks more often than before.

Yet another lie. If that was really the case, you'd be dead by now, not posting here in order to get some sympathy.

No, I think it's perfectly possible to want to die but not feel able to commit suicide.

I wish I could kick your butt. And don't think I'm being angry at you, I'm not. Kicking your butt is the only action I can think of that would be truly loving towards you now.

I disagree, but I understand the feeling.

As long as you get always more love and attention here, you won't change anything.

I doubt that - it takes more than love, sympathy and attention to have a happy life, so, even if one is lavished with love, sympathy and attention, most people will still have plenty of incentive to change.

I wish everybody would stop being nice to you.

I'll pass on that... I don't think a "tough love" approach works with everyone. I guess maybe it could wake some people up, but with others, I think it just upsets them.

I can understand _wanting_ to kick someone's butt for their own good, though. When people seem to be refusing to help themselves, it can be very frustrating. I guess the way I avoid frustration is just by thinking to myself, it's their life, so, they're perfectly entitled to take my advice or leave it, and if I can't accept their choices, that's my problem.

Best wishes,
Apollia

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Apollia

When people seem to be refusing to help themselves, it can be very frustrating. I guess the way I avoid frustration is just by thinking to myself, it's their life, so, they're perfectly entitled to take my advice or leave it, and if I can't accept their choices, that's my problem.

I do accept Chado's choice. Of course it's his life and his right not to take our advice. I'm perfectly fine with that, I'm even perfectly fine with him being depressed. As I already said, I'm not being angry, and I'm not being frustrated either.

My thought is that this is a PD forum. We're explicitly here to help each other grow. Chad is not posting here by mistake, and he has been stuck for many months now. My opinion is that we're not helping him grow at the moment. I can totally accept his not wanting to grow, but not that we don't try everything in our power. We're not doing our job!

Of course maybe the "tough love" approach won't work with him. But everything else - the sending love, the nice support and well meant advice - didn't work either. So what are we going to do now? Continue like this for years, or change our strategy and try something new? I say, it's worth taking the risk.

[Apollia]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

My thought is that this is a PD forum. We're explicitly here to help each other grow. Chad is not posting here by mistake, and he has been stuck for many months now. My opinion is that we're not helping him grow at the moment. I can totally accept his not wanting to grow, but not that we don't try everything in our power.

I can - since if you take the idea of doing everything in our power to an overliteral extreme, it's very unreasonable. Technically I could choose to devote my entire life, all my time and everything I own to the cause of saving other people - but, that would amount to falling victim to "Lightworker Syndrome" and ruining my own life in the process of trying to help others. It would only decrease my ability to help anyone.

So, while I would love to be able and willing to do more, I try to give myself permission to guiltlessly not do literally everything in my power, or even, more than I'm comfortable doing - especially since I think going totally against my own self-interest might even cause me to slightly resent the very people I'm trying to help, because of putting their needs ahead of my own as if I'm less important than everyone else.

(All that said, I don't really buy into the lightworker/darkworker concepts because I think going to either extreme would probably cause problems.)

We're not doing our job!

Well, the way I see it, no one is really obligated to respond to anyone on this forum - it's not really anyone's job, so, the way I see it, you've done much more than was required, and doubtless done your best all along.

I probably would have run out of helpful ideas months ago. Even now, I don't think there's anything much I could add to my first post to this thread, and I would probably get very stressed out about it if I tried to force myself to put in much more effort than I already have. So, I applaud your persistence and dedication.

Of course maybe the "tough love" approach won't work with him. But everything else - the sending love, the nice support and well meant advice - didn't work either. So what are we going to do now? Continue like this for years, or change our strategy and try something new? I say, it's worth taking the risk.

Well, if the "tough love" approach really works, I'll be happy about it. I definitely wouldn't recommend that anyone wears themselves out trying to repeatedly use an approach that doesn't work. Anyhow, as long as Chado's feelings aren't hurt by it, I see nothing inherently wrong with "tough love".

Best wishes,
Apollia

[Logodae]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

I walk around alot because of my anxiety... My problem is sitting still, not being mobile.

In that case, brisk walking probably isn't "moderate exercise" for you. You're already in decent physical condition, so walking is too easy. If you want to try to use exercise to kick your brain into gear, you're going to have to find something more challenging -- jogging, maybe? Again, it has to be 30 minutes straight, at least five days a week.

FWIW, exercise has been show to have a helpful effect on anxiety, too. But again, since we're talking about changes in brain chemistry here, you're not likely to see an effect right away. But if you start now, I think you could reasonably expect to see results by the end of June.


Rose: I don't think you realize how depression affects people. People "think" with their emotions, to a much greater extent than most people realize. And depression skews all your emotions negative. When you're depressed, and someone suggests something they think will help, you consider it... but you feel hopeless. You conclude that whatever they suggested can't possibly help.

Also, when you're depressed, it's very difficult to feel good about yourself. So "love" and "affection" tends not to have much effect. On the other hand, when people say negative things about you, it's much easier to take them to heart. And while it's hard to feel better, it's easy to feel worse. Now, Chad seems like a pretty resilient sort, and he seems to have emerged unscathed from previous attempts at "tough love" here on the forums... but in general, I really think you should reconsider your approach.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Apollia

but, that would amount to falling victim to "Lightworker Syndrome" and ruining my own life in the process of trying to help others.

Of course nobody is obligated to post anything in any thread here. I'm also not saying we should all quit our job, use our savings to buy a plane ticket and go save Chado - I'm just talking about those of us who already post in his threads anyway. If I already take a few minutes to post, I can choose what I'll write, right? And if I see that one strategy is not working, over months, I can consider trying a new one. That's what I meant with "trying everything in our power", nothing more.

Anyhow, as long as Chado's feelings aren't hurt by it, I see nothing inherently wrong with "tough love".

I don't mind hurting his feelings. What makes us grow is not necessarily what feels most comfortable.

Plus, how can we tell him to take responsibility for his own life, and simultaneously try to avoid hurting his feelings - thus taking responsibility for him? That's none of our business. How he chooses to feel about it is his decision.

Originally Posted by Logodae

Rose: I don't think you realize how depression affects people.

Logodae, as I've already said in various places, I've been severely depressed in the past, and it took me several years to get out of it. So, yes, I do realize how depression affects people. I remember it very well! I can understand Chado, and I know how it is. I know it's difficult. But I also know from my own experience that only HE can do something about it. And he doesn't.

So how do we want to respond to that? Buying into his helplessness obviously doesn't help him out of it. I'm not saying that every depressed person deserves their butt kicked. Remember that in this case it's been going like this for many months now.

Imagine if every time Chado started a new thead, everybody just told him to go do some jogging? Now that would really change something. Like it's now, I feel that we are enabling a situation that's not helpful for him. His relationship with the forum kinda reminds me of co-dependency.

Maybe I'm thinking this way because I don't see the forums as a bunch of disparate people, but as some kind of body with a consciousness and memory.

Also, when you're depressed, it's very difficult to feel good about yourself. So "love" and "affection" tends not to have much effect.

Exactly my point!

Now, Chad seems like a pretty resilient sort, and he seems to have emerged unscathed from previous attempts at "tough love" here on the forums...

Yup. Not only did he emerge unscathed, he even got energized. I could feel some of his true spirit shine through. I could see Chad the Fighter for a short moment and was very happy about it I really do care about Chad. I don't mind him hating me to death if it helps him shake his helplessness. Anger is better than apathy.

but in general, I really think you should reconsider your approach.

What are you afraid of exactly?

[Apollia]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

That's what I meant with "trying everything in our power", nothing more.

OK, got it.

What makes us grow is not necessarily what feels most comfortable.

I agree, this is true oftentimes.

Plus, how can we tell him to take responsibility for his own life, and simultaneously try to avoid hurting his feelings - thus taking responsibility for him? That's none of our business. How he chooses to feel about it is his decision.

Hmm, yes, good points. Too often I go out of my way to soften my words, so, I have to admit, I admire those who have the guts to be a little harsh if it's called for.

However, sometimes the situation is really too delicate to use harsh words. People sometimes do commit suicide over harsh things people say. That's all I'm worried about. Not that you've said anything really incredibly horrible, but when someone is down in the dumps enough, they can be very sensitive (as you probably already realize).

So, I'm glad you've spelled it out so much that you definitely do care about Chado.

Like it's now, I feel that we are enabling a situation that's not helpful for him. His relationship with the forum kinda reminds me of co-dependency.

Well, I'm not familiar enough with the situation to judge whether this is true for Chado or not, but, I know from experience (and from having friends with forum addictions) that it's definitely very possible to misuse forums.

Steve wrote a good article on this topic: Effective Online Forum Usage

Yup. Not only did he emerge unscathed, he even got energized. I could feel some of his true spirit shine through. I could see Chad the Fighter for a short moment and was very happy about it

Well, I'm glad to hear that he has some fighting spirit.

I really do care about Chad.

I believe it.

Anger is better than apathy.

Yes, true in my experience, sometimes. I also find it's better than abject helpless despair.

Anyhow, I guess that's all I have to add here for now. Good luck everyone.