False Hope

[Chado2423]

I don't know about you... but I'm tired of the ideas and strategies that present themselves as cures that don't work.

Many self-help books are "feel good" books, but even when tried and tested don't bring you back to a sense of inner peace. I'm sorry if I rain on your parade, but I've tried technique after technique... yes, even sometimes for a very long time. I've tried therapy, but for me therapy was also a form of false-hope. I've even tried medication. (I'm not saying medication doesn't help... however, pharmeceutical companies are not lax for selling their product to just about anybody who is at a disantvage. Statistically the medication only has to beat the placebo by 1 percent. And furthermore anti-depressants are one of the most sold medications... why?) There are many motivational speakers who teach "tried-and true" techniques. The Sadona Method, NLP, etc. Although, the Sadona seems to have good raport here, I've noticed that these ideas are mediocre at best. I have familiairty with NLP the best, but in my experience NLP only scratches at the surface and doesn't really deal with the cause of the feelings of desperation. Preach on Tony Robbins, and maybe one day you can have 2 castles for taking advantage of other people's disadvantages. For those of you that don't know, Tony Robbins lives in a castle... why? Because desperate people seekimg true fulfilment pay thousands of dollars for his seminars, and buy his books. But for many others (like me) the search for real life fulfiment continues even after a spend a lot of money. I have allowed myself to get caught up in the hype of motivational speakers, only to realize later that I just helped pay another man's electric bill, and now cannot afford my own. The only think I did get from Tony Robbins, is the power of choice. So I have begun to choose; to de-cide to take some control over my life by not buying anymore self-help books (yes, I was a self-help junkie.) The charasmatic charm that all these ideas present is very interesting. It's like the snake-oil salesman.

In my experience of being in the darkest of my days, I can sense that False Hope is easily sold, but real hope can't be bought. Real hope is something we have to develop within ourselves... and this, contrary to what many others may say doesn't come from a pill, or a book, or even Joel Osteen. Someone may preach to you about hope, and give you God's promises... but as Joel Osteen teaches the working is still on the inside. Have you been sold by a false hope? I know I have many times in life. It is good that we hope... but we need to put our hopes of recovery in the right soil. I have placed my hopes too high in therapy. But ironically the result of therapy caused further depression, because I couldn't afford the sessions. So many people are looking for answers. And many of us have high expectations because we get sucked in the provebial "vibe" of the moment. But the moment is gone, when we discover that we have accrued debt, through putting our money in another man's pocket without recieving the genuine support that we seek.
We have promising results guaranteed.

Lets look at some examples...
Herbal remedies...
Anti-depressants...
Therapy

Unfortunately the first two treat the "symptoms" of the depression but don't help a person understand what he is going through. Therapy... depends on who you are. If you are willing to pay $85 each month for a man to sit there and nod his head while you talk and talk then okay, but I'm done with it. I can talk to my friends for free, and guess what they talk back. They don't hand me some stupid assignment that is basically meanings. They bounce back and give me advice or sometimes no advice, but just listen.

your opinion?

[Brutha]

In the end the only person that can change is yourself.
There is no foolproof way to cure depression.

[mbshinde78]

There is nothing like false or true hope. You change and decide your own life.

For your good life, I wish you should set a really really strong goal (purpose) so the power or intensity of depression goes off.

I went through this depression and sadness phase when I was suffering from OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) and Anxiety Disorder.

The only thing I did to keep myself going on track was set few strong goals and did lot of meditation (not medication).

I accepted everything happening to me (all bad stuff came my way for few continuous years) and I went into deep depression.

I repeat for your good life 1. Set strong goals (focus on them) 2. Do lot of meditation.

Please don't ignore my message

[Ak47]

i agree, doing it yourself is best. however, i think it is possible to learn techniques. some tech's might be lame, some might work. the thing is, everyone is so unique, what works for one may or may not work for another... one more reason why it's best to develop your own.

[Parthon]

Self help is a tool. Nothing more.

Now in reference to that, tools aren't always useful, some are poorly made and tend to break. There are also no tools that do everything, and those that try end up being combinations of other tools anyways. In reality the best toolbox someone can have has a variety of different tools, enough to do every job they require, and preferably good quality too. The tool user would also have to know how to use the tools, you wouldn't use a screw driver to tighten a nut, neither should you use a hammer to pound in a screw. Furthur still, it takes skill to use a tool and skill takes time to build.

All this applies to personal development/self help as well. Some self help is crap, other self help is excellent. Even still you need to have a variety of different techniques to use, and know when to use the right technique. Fortunately humans have two important abilities that allow us to determine these things, intuition and common sense. there are two of the most important techniques to practice as they really tap into the power of the mind and the spirit in such a way that you have greater access to being able to make correct decisions and take the correct action.

But as for the hope from the Self Help books, they are probably a crappy tool, or the wrong tool for the wrong job but don't give up on all of the tools just because they suck. Keep looking and you will find the right one. The alternative is to not look and be doomed to wallowing in the dark until something else pulls you out.

Perhaps you need to discover your purpose first?
The Meaning of Life Series
How to Discover your Life Purpose in About 20 Minutes

[DayInTheLife]

I have read a lot of books that one could label "self-help" and I learned something important from most of them.

But a book will not change you; they can only share wisdom that you can use to change yourself. You have to experience the state of mind these books are hinting at to really transform yourself. Information alone is not enough.

Many times I have been reading a self-help book and felt that euphoric feeling of inspiration, as if the transformation was occurring at that moment. But it always fades, because transformation does not happen when you are sitting reading a book; it happens while you are living your life, conducting yourself in a different way that you are used to.

Most people who buy motivational books get off on this temporary euphoria (true to the north american obsession with instant gratification) and do not realize how to use this information to create lasting changes to their lifestyles. Thus is born the self-help junkie.

It is action, not information, that changes lives.

Do not blame the books. They only provide ideas. YOU have to identify the patterns in your life that hold you back, YOU have to make the adjustments to your conduct to see changes in your life.

The US is a capitalist country, and therefore it is always more profitable to sell treatments over cures. It is easy to be cynical about this, and it serves no purpose. There are hundreds of fantastic self-help books, but their value depends on the reader's ability to change himself.

[jawillie]

I find when I am in a depression the best way out is to forget about myself and do something for someone else.

I also agree with what the others said, that the books, seminars, podcasts and personal coaches will not change you. They can light a fire for a change, but you must be the one that keeps it lit.

The hard truth is we, as individuals, are responsible for our own feelings. I am seeing now how we actually make our problems a part of us and we actually "love" our problems ~ that is why we won't let them go.

[Rose of Cairo]

Ah, Chad, are you explaining to us why you cannot possibly get out of your depression again? Glad to see! It feels so homey, you know, that whenever I check the forums there is an active Chado-complaining-thread somewhere

So let's play the game. This time I recommend you to read the Power of Now. You're so identified with your depression that you absolutely refuse to let it go. That's your ego, it's not the true you.

Have you tried to give up all drugs, eat healthy, drink plenty of water and walk two hours a day? Of course you haven't. Duh! It would work.

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Ah, Chad, are you explaining to us why you cannot possibly get out of your depression again? Glad to see! It feels so homey, you know, that whenever I check the forums there is an active Chado-complaining-thread somewhere

So let's play the game. This time I recommend you to read the Power of Now. You're so identified with your depression that you absolutely refuse to let it go. That's your ego, it's not the true you.

Have you tried to give up all drugs, eat healthy, drink plenty of water and walk two hours a day? Of course you haven't. Duh! It would work.

This is obvious to me that such a comment doesn't come from someone who has experienced Clinical Depression. I don't do drugs. I eat every day. I drink lots of water. But all these things don't scratch beyond the surface. I function pretty well. I've been going to church more often. But the depression still hangs over me. Did you know you can live an active lifestyle and still be depressed? Neither did I, until I experienced it first hand. How do you explain the taste of a fish to someone who has never eaten fish? You can tell them all about it, but until they taste it themselves they won't understand. They have to taste the fish for themselves. I can't thoroughly explain my feelings through this website. You'd have to experience them yourself. Besides who said I was complaining? My spirit may have been vexed, but that doesn't mean I am complaining. I can see some people don't understand what it is like to have a long-lasting depresion, and I can't explain it in the right words. Trial by fire perhaps... I'm not really sure to tell the truth.

[wolfgang]

I had a self help book that was titled "stop improving yourself and start living" but I didn't read it.

Originally Posted by from the amazon editorial review

Are some of your patrons self-improvement junkies? Do they want to stop "improving" and be themselves? If so, Bryant offers the self-improvement book to end all self-improvement books. In this narrative, she tells her story of recovery, relapse, and ultimately authentic change via mental, emotional, and spiritual discovery of her true self. Her thesis is that most self-improvement books, programs, and videos offer restrictive definitions of how we should look and feel, while not allowing for the natural and logical outcome of our genes and psyches (this criticism is ironic since her book is itself a self-improvement manual). Her creative process drills sprinkled throughout provide readers with reflective thought exercises. Libraries stocking self-improvement books may want this, while others might acquire it as the "enough is enough" book.

oh, even though you aren't thinking books help, check out "dark night of the soul" by Moore
Dark Nights of the Soul: A Guide to ... - Google Book Search

might make you look at being depressed as a process than a "thing"

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

This is obvious to me that such a comment doesn't come from someone who has experienced Clinical Depression. I don't do drugs. I eat every day. I drink lots of water. But all these things don't scratch beyond the surface. I function pretty well. I've been going to church more often. But the depression still hangs over me. Did you know you can live an active lifestyle and still be depressed? Neither did I, until I experienced it first hand. How do you explain the taste of a fish to someone who has never eaten fish? You can tell them all about it, but until they taste it themselves they won't understand. They have to taste the fish for themselves. I can't thoroughly explain my feelings through this website. You'd have to experience them yourself. Besides who said I was complaining? My spirit may have been vexed, but that doesn't mean I am complaining. I can see some people don't understand what it is like to have a long-lasting depresion, and I can't explain it in the right words. Trial by fire perhaps... I'm not really sure to tell the truth.

Well I'm not sure If I would call what I went through clinical depression..but I did however see a doctor, take anti-depressants, and attend a counselor for several weeks.

I think what you need is to just get yourself back on your feet. Forget about all this depression and/or whatever seems to be bothering you. The two books I really recommend reading are "The Power of Now" and "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle...those books really helped me change my life and now I cannot even recognize the same person in the mirror anymore. One thing I would stop doing, and even though it may sound harsh, is stop griefing about your life and stop making it a living hell. Yes these books and tips can help you, but ultimately you are the only one who can help yourself. You're the only one who can get out of this mess and better your life.

Lastly I will leave you with this, if you're not the one who will fix your life, who's going to? No one's going to take a bullet for you while they're not protected themselves. Change your life and live for the moment.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

This is obvious to me that such a comment doesn't come from someone who has experienced Clinical Depression.

I already told you in your "thinking too much" thread that I've been depressed too in the past. I was diagnosed with severe clinical depression and a few other fancy syndromes too. I was suicidal and even spent a few weeks in a psychiatric clinic. It took me several years to pull myself out of the crap. So, yes, I do know how it is to suffer from a long-lasting depression. I know it's awful. AND I know you can get out of there like I did. If only you'd want to.

I've already noticed this pattern of yours. When you'd be forced to DO something concretely, you comfortably hide behind the "nobody understands me" excuse.

I don't do drugs. I eat every day. I drink lots of water.

When I talked about giving up all drugs and eating healthy I didn't mean drugs like heroine or cocaine. I was referring to my post in the "thinking too much" thread:

Originally Posted by me

1. Eat healthy. No drugs, no alcohol, no coffee, no cigarettes, no sugar, no refined flour, no dairy. Eat plenty of organic, whole fruit and veggies every single day. And when I say plenty, I mean PLENTY of them.
2. Drink a lot of water.
3. Go for a fast walk outside for two hours every day

I bet you do not do all this. Or do you want to tell me that you eat no dairy, no sugar, no refined flour and no caffeine? I bet you don't walk two hours a day either. And eating every day is very different from eating healthy every day.

But all these things don't scratch beyond the surface.

That's what I thought too, before trying it out. That's what many people think, because they don't know much about how connected the mental and the body are and how unhealthy they eat. I tried just everything to get better when I was depressed, and nothing worked. So I did lots and lots of research about depression and nutrition and health. I started stuffing myself with veggies from the wholefood shop and walking like crazy. And then suddenly it got better.

I'm not saying this is the ultimate solution for all depression problems. But you have to do one first step to get moving. This is one first step. It's a good one, it works.

Did you try it? No. In the "thinking too much" thread, seeker5 also gave you great advice about the proper mental attitude to overcome depression. Did you try that? No. Other people have been giving you great advice as well, for months now, have you tried any of it? Nope. So please don't pretend anymore that you want to get better!

Even the way you write Clinical Depression in capitals shows how attached you are to your beloved disease.

So here's another possible first step: Power of Now. Good luck!

[Chado2423]

I don't see how walking two hours a day will fix my entire life and help me to know what to do to turn my situation around. Walking two hours a day is not going to pay my bills. Getting a job would help that, but I had jobs and was still depressed. These things mark the surface at best, but they don't compensate for my whole sense of being, to help me know better what I want and need out of life. A glass of water a day, or two or whatever... Can you tell me how drinking a glass of water is going to help me a job I enjoy quicker, and turn every area of my life around? I'm stumped by these suggestions. I've never walked two hours a day in my life, nor do I plan to. But I do go for short strolls... and yes I'm still depressed before, during, and after. Searching for answers to some pretty deep emotional problems.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

But I do go for short strolls...

Sticking your toe in the water is not the same as swimming!

The long walks work because your body gets a good exercise. After a good exercise, your body produces endorphins. Endorphins are the chemicals that make you feel good. For everyone in the world but you, feeling good means not feeling depressed or -at the very least- less depressed.

I highly doubt that walking will help you, because you have so effectively tricked your brain into thinking that "nothing works" Every time you start a new thread about this on the forum, we offer you evidence to the contrary that you then quickly dispel.

And thus you have built the perfect cage for yourself. With each new pin you try to pick the lock, only to give in when it will not spring open immediately - once again confirming your belief that "nothing works".

Nothing will ever work for you, not until you dispel with that belief.

Plant seeds in your head. There is hope. Something WILL work. There is light at the end of your tunnel.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

I don't see how walking two hours a day will fix my entire life and help me to know what to do to turn my situation around.

I said it won't fix everything immediately. It's a first step. You just have to begin somewhere. There are books about how exercise affects the psyche, besides. It has been proven that exercise has an antidepressant effect. Just like getting up earlier, getting a lot of sunshine, eating healthier and drinking more water.

Walking two hours a day is not going to pay my bills. Getting a job would help that, but I had jobs and was still depressed.

So getting a job is not the solution, right? I'm here to help you overcome your depression, not pay your bills. A job won't help you overcome your depression, but walking two hours a day will.

These things mark the surface at best, but they don't compensate for my whole sense of being, to help me know better what I want and need out of life.

You're underestimating the connection between your body and your mind.

A glass of water a day, or two or whatever... Can you tell me how drinking a glass of water is going to help me a job I enjoy quicker, and turn every area of my life around?

No, I can't tell you, because I'm no biologist. If you're interested in knowing it in details, there is physician called Dr. med. F. Batmanghelidj who writes books about the primordial role of water in our bodies. He even wrote a book called "You're not depressed, you're thirsty!" You may want to read it, it's very interesting. He especially explains how dehydration affects our nervous system. Your depressed feelings may come from a disturbance of the nervous system due to dehydration. Or due to sugar, since sugar harms your nerves. Maybe it has another cause, but having a better functioning nervous system can only help you.

What I can tell you for sure, is that it will work. Maybe only drinking a glass of water won't be enough. But drinking a glass of water, and cutting off sugar, dairy and refined grains, and eating veggies, and walking daily, and reading the Power of Now, and such little things, over a few weeks. Yes it will help you find a job and turn every area of your life around, just like it was the case for me.

It's too much work? Oh yeah? What do you want?? A miracle falling into your lap?

I've never walked two hours a day in my life, nor do I plan to.

If you do what you've done so far, you'll get what you've gotten so far: depression. So what do you want? Staying depressed or changing something and getting out of it? Like Jim would say: it's up to you.

But I do go for short strolls... and yes I'm still depressed before, during, and after. Searching for answers to some pretty deep emotional problems.

Ok, I correct myself: go for a fast walk outside for two hours a day every day and practice the Power of Now during these walks.

If you focus on your depression, you'll get more of it. Remember, you attract into your life what you focus on.

These "pretty deep emotional problems" that you mention proudly and find so important are nothing but your pain body. It's an illusion. It's not you. Searching answers for them will only feed your pain body. I know this sounds strange to you, but read the Power of Now and you'll understand what I mean.

Yeah I love you too

[Rockchick26]

I can see both sides here. If you're depressed,it isnt going to change your situation if you drink a ton of water and go for a walk. When you come back home,your problems are still there and soon after your mood will go back down in the dumps again. A walk is only temporary. But i also see everyone else's side too,nothing is an immediate fix,and every little thing helps,it all adds up.

I have never been clinically depressed,although i am far from 100% happy...but i think if you focused more on being in nature and calming your life down (not watching tv as much,not being online as much,not talking on the phone as much,not rushing here and there and worry about not having enough time),it will gradually calm your mind and then you can HEAR your soul telling you what it needs. If you have access to nature,like go sit by a lake,alone,watch animals,go sit in the middle of a bunch of trees...humans were not meant to be engulfed in all this technology and media and fast paced impersonal interactions with other people,we think we are the things we own,we think we are our thoughts...we are not. And we only find out who we are when we let go of material things,outside stimuli,and the clutter of our minds.

[Angela]

If you are depressed and you're not diligently and vigorously exercising 5 or 6 times a week (at least 30 minutes uninterrupted at an aerobic level of exertion), you are like a person with lung cancer who still smokes cigarettes.

Two hours would be great, but you don't have to start out buying the whole farm. Start with smaller increments of time and work up. It's not a temporary fix -- it is systemic, and it makes an immediate difference in both your day-to-day well being and your long term self-care.

Saying "I don't intend to get exercise, ever" when you're depressed is tantamount to saying "I have no intention of feeling better, ever."

It is rough love, but Rose is absolutely right -- if you're hoping something is just going to magically fall into your path and leave you feeling better, not taking steps () to feel better on purpose, you are generating irritation and powerlessness not just for yourself, but for the whole world. I don't think that's what you're up to in life. I think you would like to generate something more inspiring, right?

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

It's too much work? Oh yeah? What do you want?? A miracle falling into your lap?

Yea I think thats what he's expecting, and honest answer is there is none. We like to hope and pray so much that one day everything will eventually stop, and you will be in full peace and serenity. Sorry to say that never happens and searching for it just prolongs the pain and suffering.

Once again, Good luck...and if you don't want to change no one will help you either.

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by Angela

It is rough love, but Rose is absolutely right -- if you're hoping something is just going to magically fall into your path and leave you feeling better, not taking steps () to feel better on purpose, you are generating irritation and powerlessness not just for yourself, but for the whole world. I don't think that's what you're up to in life. I think you would like to generate something more inspiring, right?

I agree

[Parthon]

The only way to get out of being depressed is to not want to be depressed any more. If you are still depressed and you've "tried everything" to get out of it, then it's soley because you still want to be depressed.

I can see you thinking "Hang on a minute! I don't want to be depressed! Nobody sane would ever want to be depressed!" WRONG! When someone wants something it's because they are getting something far better out of it than what they perceive on giving it up. What are you getting out of it? I dunno, that's for you to find, but I don't know of several ideas. You have a great story and excuse to tell people, "Noone understands me, I'm sooo sad and there's nothing I can do about it." You get to be irresponsible and not take control of your life, "I got a job and I was still depressed. " You get sympathy and pity from people. People pay attention to you. You get to wear white makeup, dark clothes and hang out in malls and parks. You get to be right about why everything is the way it is in your life, and you get to tell people they are wrong when they say otherwise. You get to identify with this sad person you've made up over the years. And you get to crap all over everyone else, most of whom are doing much better than you are.

So which one is it? What are you getting out of it? Why do you like being sad? If you can honestly look inside yourself and find that answer, and there might be many of them, then you can start to break down that pattern. That's the only way out of depression.

For me, when I was depressed I had to fight off the urge to jump off a bridge or in front of a bus. I kept it all to myself though, as I'm quite a personal person, but I definately wasn't enjoying life. I used to go to school, do the bare minimum, then when I got home vegitate in front of the computer until it was time to go to sleep. It was pretty much the worse I've ever felt. I felt abandoned, completely alone, very miserable and that my life was spinning out of control. It was when I was sitting at the bus stop at 7am in the morning, in the middle of the winter freezing my butt off that I thought that even if I killed myself, noone would care. I had a housemate that paid no attention to me, a mother and brother who were too busy doing whatever they were doing to even call, and all my other friends were too busy doing stuff to care. So I figured if I was going to kill myself, there would be no point, so I may as well live to spite the world and everone in it. I wouldn't go so easily into t