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05-06-2008, 04:19 PM
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You can choose what you desire, need or expect which in turn will change your emotions. So, I don't think it's possible to just say "I'm going to be happy and not depressed anymore." You have to do exactly what you did. Being grateful fulfills desires to have X, to be X, etc.
__________________ HowToBeMotivated.com      |
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05-06-2008, 05:45 PM
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05-06-2008, 05:53 PM
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05-06-2008, 06:26 PM
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05-06-2008, 06:46 PM
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Like with alcoholism, there are plenty of people who want you to buy into the "disease" of depression so that they can "treat" you and let drugs make your choices for you. I just don't buy it anymore. (I used to!). |
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05-06-2008, 07:20 PM
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| Seeing as how it's all related... physical/mental/spiritual... well, not just related, but ALL ONE, then of course you'd find physical symptoms as well, especially if your belief system (I'm powerless here, there's something outside me that's causing this) promotes that view. I have experienced many, many years of very severe depression, suicidal at times - and yet, when I write that, it's as if it happened to someone else. I almost don't *remember* those years of my life. What changed? Well - I did! I did take medication for about a year, then tapered off. That was my intention when I started taking it - I wanted to learn how *not* to be depressed, and medication allowed me to experience that. But, ultimately, I wanted the change to be internal, long-lasting, a lifelong change. It did start by taking walks. I got a dog, and I committed to walking him twice a day, no matter the weather. I also began hearing the word "responsibility" a LOT in my head. I had kinda lived up to that point, like a feather on a stream, not consciously. I was a victim of a lot of things, but when I realized *I* am responsible for my life, no matter my past, no matter my present, it's up to ME - that's when things switched for me. I stopped using the word depression - it made me feel like a victim. I started honoring the times I was lower energy, and everything I did -- everything -- was my choice. I now don't do anything I don't absolutely *choose* to do, from work to brushing my teeth. It took a lot of looking within, a lot of asking myself what I want. I haven't been depressed for several years now. I'm creating a life of joy and freedom and connection. My diet is still crappy, the only exercise I get is those two walks a day, I experience self-doubt and inertia at times. But I'm not depressed any more, and I won't ever be again. On some level, I *was* choosing depression. It meant I didn't have to take responsibility for my life, I could lie on my back like a flipped turtle, moaning how life was unfair. Now, I know my life is my creation. Yours is your creation. OH! I almost forgot - I remember a moment of absolute clarity. I was very, very down, feeling suicidal yet again 'It's never going to work out for me! Here I am again!' -- and I remember something clicked, and I thought, "Ya know? If I'm willing to *die*, then what have I got to lose? I mean, if I'm going to give up, why not DO my BEST before that? I've got *nothing* to lose!" And I laughed and laughed and laughed. That right there is what kick-started the whole process. |
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05-06-2008, 07:26 PM
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The disease model works up to a point -- but it's putting the responsibility on something outside of me. And didn't I create this whole thing? Questions, questions... |
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05-06-2008, 07:31 PM
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| Whether or not its a choice or not is disputed already in the medical community. I question it in my own mind... because I don't feel like I chose this... I feel like it came upon me... much like a disease... and some people think that Depression in its most severe forms is a disease. I can't say for sure. I'm not disputing you, however, I'm just mentioning that for me it seems as though it hit me from nowhere... much like it would hit you if you catch pnemonia. I already know I'm very prone to contracting illnesses, why would it be any different with depression. Also, In my personal experience, So many "therapies" and "cures" take advantage of you when you are at your lowest and the most vulnerable... this is a terrible stigmatization against this disorder. Last edited by Chado2423 : 05-06-2008 at 07:40 PM. |
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05-06-2008, 07:52 PM
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| This might be a bit disjointed - I'm trying to remember something I read long ago... In "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck, he wrote a bit about how depression is actually a healthy response to growth... it's a period of grieving (? If I'm remembering correctly); you're growing, and you're leaving behind this 'old you'. That whole book was perfect for me when I read it, it really spoke to me. I haven't re-read it since my 'awakening', so I don' t know how it would read now but it might be something to look into. |
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05-06-2008, 08:06 PM
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| I have days or sometimes moments of bliss. Sometimes it is true happiness, and other times I just think its elation. But overall those times are minimal. Perhaps I am growing, but I dk. That could be the case, but how am I to know for sure if this is something I will have to live with for the rest of my life or not? |
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05-06-2008, 08:26 PM
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As carenkh mentioned, responsibility is the ticket. |
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05-06-2008, 08:27 PM
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it's hard to have doctors tell you have "this thing", because that reinforces the idea that it's a condition. yet it can really be a process. Just like carenkh says the Peck book "the Road Less Travelled" goes into, and also the Moore book, I mentioned, "Dark Nights of the Soul" - it usually is a process. think about your depression. doesn't it change from day to day? it's never really exactly the same, right? within the levels of being depressed there can be highs and lows too. you know you write rather well? at least from reading your posts I say that. pretty coherently too. and you don't seem to be all defensive about what people are saying, you know? you seem to have openness. it seems that you might care, actually or why post. just saying these attributes are kind of not depression, if you know what I'm trying to say... Last edited by wolfgang : 05-06-2008 at 08:51 PM. |
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05-06-2008, 08:43 PM
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| Yes, it was SO helpful for me, too, to stay in TODAY. NOW. Without tying it to the future (will it be this way forever?) or the past (ah - I've been here before!). That made a huge difference for me, to be in the moment. I started a zen meditation practice about 5 years ago. I used to, every time I messed up, or slid downward, think of the current situation as somehow tied to every other time I'd messed up or gotten down. Then it was SO overwhelming, and I couldn't think of how it - or I - could change. By being in the moment, each time I felt down was *just* that time, each time I fell down, I could pick myself up and figure out how to go on. When I stopped seeing it as a lifelong pattern, I reacted differently. |
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05-07-2008, 01:39 PM
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| I really think depression is more a symptom that something is wrong, or perhaps a symptom that things need changing -- more than anything else. For me, I had to set an intention to no longer be depressed; and then as best I could do whatever work it was that showed up for me to do. I got a therapist. I went on drug therapy. I began working with those memories which took me to a very painful place. I relished the moments of peace, and was grateful for the little things; and believe me, I have lots to be grateful for. I experienced a lot of traumatic memories and flashbacks; I worked with EMDR, and other protocals for the trauma. When I started to beat myself up for things, I cultivated the input of kind and gentle people, therapists, buddhists -- healers; folks who are kind and focused more on mindfulness of the present moment than past or future events. I worked with ACIM, and did lots of forgiveness work. I worked on my diet, using supplements, essential oils, etc. as appropriate. L-tryptophan helped me get off the antidepressants, and generally feel better physically -- I do think there is a mind body connection which must be honored. . . As best I could I did what showed up to be done; but since I was depressed, sometimes I didn't do those things, and sometimes I did them poorly. Still, my intention was there, and I did the best that I could; progress happened in a kind of a natural unfoldment. I'm no longer depressed. There are some memories that surface at times that tend to fill me with a deep grief. I try to derail those and distract myself as soon as they begin. Currently I am working with the Sedona method -- it is wonderfully helpful. I have dogs, and I find that they are eternal optimists, and they love me unabashedly. I have friends -- I try to cultivate the kind, fun friends; folks who make me laugh rather than the needy type. When I'm in a space where I am tended, I have everything I need to give to others. But I cannot surround myself with needy or harsh people. That doesn't work for me, so I don't do that. I work very hard to keep with those skills that keep me in the happy place. Self-tending, self-love and self-care. Whatever my definition of 'self' is, I had to quit beating her up about things which are over and gone. Forgiveness of self and others; this was key. I say this all because I think the most important thing, what really made the difference for me was setting my intention. Without that, the other would not have followed. So, my input is, set your intention to be completely and utterly healed of your depression. It worked for me, though like any change it did not happen overnight. At the end of the road, I really am not the same -- change has occurred. On the other hand, I do believe that sometimes people need to stay in the dark place until they have truly had enough of it. So if that is where you are, don't worry about it. One day the pain will really be too much, and you'll have had enough, and you'll set your intention and you'll experience a resurrection of sorts. You can come to love and enjoy and cherish your life, and things can be vastly different for you. From your current perspective you probably can't see it. Just set your intention when you are really ready, and start working at it. Blessings from Belle,  Last edited by bellemeadows : 05-07-2008 at 01:42 PM. |
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05-07-2008, 01:58 PM
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| Chad, you said Quote:
It takes a big commitment to one's self to really want to change. Some people, however, are committed to being broken, so others can take care of them, can feel sorry for them. I know some people like that. I have an ex-friend who has spent decades trying to prove to others that she is broken because they broke her. So they will feel badly and take care of her. I understand why she goes down that path, but there is soooo much suffering in proving yourself right in such a way. I'd rather NOT do that. It just to me seems like such a waste. But it is definately her path; almost a calling. It has colored her entire life, and if you speak to her about it she is soooo needy. She has many times tried to convince me that she is powerless in her afflictions -- and because she believes it is so, for her it is so. Personally, I do my best to choose differently. You can too, Blessings from Belle, |
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05-07-2008, 02:30 PM
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There's something to try though. If you were depressed for the rest of your life, and even though you had fleeting moments of happiness most of your days are filled with drearyness and lackluster, what then? This isn't about what you would do to get out of it, because you can't. You are stuck in depression and you can't commit suicide or harm yourself either. Imagine that all the rest of your days were filled the same, what would you then do? I think this is a powerful visualisation exercise, try it and tell me what insights you see. |
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05-07-2008, 04:14 PM
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My goal is to not be depressed any more... I'm not speaking of happiness all the time, but the general contentment type of happiness that I once had over my life. That which, unfortunately, is gone from me in this present time. It feels as though I am stuck in a realm where it seems that every door is the wrong door. I've opened many doors leading me down dark ways, so many that I'm afraid to open any new doors for fear that they'd bring the same. Doubt and unbelief haunt me unmercifully, and I am plauged by my own spirit. If I make a choice, I want to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is the right choice, but the fear of making a wrong choice, I'm afraid to say, is what holds me back from makign a choice at all. I feel so loneley and lost and disheartened and confused, worried and afraid. Last edited by Chado2423 : 05-08-2008 at 02:45 PM. |
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05-09-2008, 02:57 PM
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| Well, those feelings are just feelings. Could you sit with them a moment, and let them in without resistence, could you really feel them in your body, and then ask yourself, could you let them go? If the answer is yes then let them go. If the answer is no then let them go (really the answer doesn't matter.) There is strong evidence that the people who succeed in therapy (and in improving their perspective on the world) are people who work with their internal perspective and feel their feelings within their body, working with them there. The book called Focusing provides compelling evidence that this is true based upon studies of those who are successful in therapy. This body-connection is the one constant factor in people who succeed in moving through the bad stuff, like depression. The book provides an eye-opening read. This feeling things in your body approach, in one way makes complete sense. You are not in your mind chatter when you are feeling things in your body, or at least the mind chatter is diminished. It seems to me mind chatter is a fairly useless and often truly harmful exercise; it can take you into the past to share a message of guilt, shame and blame with you, and then will project the belief that this perspective will never change into your visions of a future. . . . Survivors of trauma are typically retraumatized by reliving the past in their mind -- that kind of treatment actually makes them worse, sometimes much worse very quickly (even though this has been the old-school approach for years and years and years.) The latest work on trauma therapy clearly shows this is a very bad path, this reliving in your mind, for trauma survivors. So, when these feelings come up, I suggest you just peacefully sit with them, and accept them fully instead of resisting them. Just being peaceful with your feelings can be helpful. And when the old story about what a XXXX you are comes up, how bad things are, how things will never get better, how crappy you feel, how others don't understand, how badly she treated you and you didn't deserve it, etc., etc., etc., distract yourself. This is destructive mind chatter, and it is typically harmful instead of being helpful. I honestly think this is why walking has been shown to be so helpful to those experiencing depression. It takes them into a body experience, and gives them a bit of a respite from their own toxic head experiences. . . . As simple as this all sounds, I'm not sure it is easy to do. We are so engrained to live in our minds and not experience with our bodies. . . . Just a thought or two for you to consider -- Blessings from Belle, Last edited by bellemeadows : 05-09-2008 at 03:04 PM. |
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05-09-2008, 03:30 PM
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 I'm sorry it has been so hard for you.It does seem that this may be all about listening to the judgments of your mind. What if in listening to the judgments of your mind all this time, this is the activity that is making you sick at heart? Is it possible that anything you do that is being kind and considerate and empathetic to yourself is a good thing, and from that perspective, perhaps you cannot take a wrong step? Yet, your mind has shown that it can JUDGE you to have made a wrong step, and eek out punishment, internal punishment for the judgment. Personally, I have found that I need to be out of my mind to be happy and content. Being in my mind-chatter, I sometimes watch the machinations of judging and opinionating about the past and the future. My mind can be unmerciful, when I let it go. It sounds like yours is also. To me this is hell on earth. I would rather be watching my mind, out of my mind, than believe all the stuff it dishes out; the cruel judgments, the unkind statements. When I watch my mind, it calms down, it quiets, and I begin to find a measure of peace. To the extend that I can watch its insanity (because I do agree wiht Tolle, the mind is insane,) and not consider it even one bit important, is the extent that it calms, and begins to show up differently. More as a kind, thoughtful houseguest than as a runaway horse eager to trample me into the dust. Quote:
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