Why do men pretend to be jerks?

[Jamie]

What I want to know, is why men feel they need to pretend to be jerks in order to impress women?

Maybe "jerks" is too strong here, but certainly not being their genuine natural (and sometimes vulnerable) imperfect selves.

I remember the first woman I ever tried to impress, it was on Scarborough (north yorks, UK), I was 4, can't remember if she was an older woman (5?) or not. Anyhow, I remember, I had just come out of the sea; and from some reason, I told her I'd caught a fish, in my hand, and that it'd escaped; in an attempt to impress her.

I don't think it worked! Hmm. I must be a slow learner though, cause to this day, I still have the same mentality.

[Rose of Cairo]

lol What a sweet post, thanks Jamie. I so could see the scene.

I don't know why some men feel that need, and it's most certainly not all men. The men around me seem to be their genuine, natural, vulnerable and imperfect selves. I don't see them trying to impress me or any other woman. Or maybe I'm being very naive?

What I'm much more interested in than in some gender stereotypes, is why you feel the need to pretend to be what you are not and to impress women.

[ragtag]

Because they don't have confidence in who they are and have to pretend to be something more than what they are, but fail at it and come off as a....... instead.

Also, men are supposed to be strong. So in society it's not acceptable for them to show any weakness. "Take it like a man", "Boys don't cry", etc.

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by ragtag

Because they don't have confidence in who they are and have to pretend to be something more than what they are, but fail at it and come off as jerk instead.

Also, men are supposed to be strong. So in society it's not acceptable for them to show any weakness. "Take it like a man", "Boys don't cry", etc.

I agree with you, but I'll say this: it's been my experience that women can't stand neediness. And if they can, that is not the type of woman I want to get with.

I don't believe that means you got to be an jerk. I do think it means you have to be a man.

[Chado2423]

I think in reality that men aren't that different emotionally than women. Some women show it, others don't. Its the same with men. whatever society has induced us with, is purely a phenomenon, rather than reality. Its time we open up our eyes and see reality for what it truly is, rather than what people tell us its "supposed to be like" or for a better argument, we need to see reality as it truly is, rather than the reality that is given to us by others.

[Rockchick26]

One word; INSECURITY! Men are so insecure that they feel like they have to make up for it by bragging about other parts about themselves that aren't even true. I haven't met very men who weren't like this.

[jsot]

Because if we're nice girls seem to forget that we are men.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

What I'm much more interested in than in some gender stereotypes, is why you feel the need to pretend to be what you are not and to impress women.

Yeah, I'm more than interested in that too Rose!

I think there's a lovelyness about people, something genuine and natural that is in us all, but only shows its face when we drop the charade (or 'act'); and it's something that is very attractive to other people.

So why do we hide it? instead of letting our natural and uncontrived being shine forth, why do we feel a need to put on some kind of act, to impress? I know I do that on some level, it's not a concsious decision; but I am very curious as to why I do this, what's behind it etc..

[Rose of Cairo]

Well, I cannot tell you why you do it! I thought you would tell me

I suppose it's something like you feeling that your genuine Self is "not enough" in some way? Or you being insecure and trying to avoid being hurt or losing your face? Or you just wanting to feel admired?

So you do something that you don't like. Is it really a good use of your time to figure out in details why you do it? Can you imagine just letting go of this pattern whenever you notice it and being committed to be your genuine Self instead?

You don't try to impress me and I find you so lovely

A good idea would also be to get Angela's coaching if you can afford a coach. I know she's inventing something new about her coaching now, but the style of coaching she did with me back in winter is an excellent way to address exactly such things. She helped me tremendously.

Much Love to your genuine Self

[Jamie]

Thanks Rose.

Yep, and I can see it's both an issue with myself, and something I notice men in general doing; and I am sure there's a female equivalent too (things women do, where they're not being their genuine lovely selves around men).

I think understanding why we do things, the motivations for our (ego-based) behaviours, can be a very good first step in dropping these unwanted behaviours. That's my motivation for wanting to know the why. It's the old, shining the light of awareness on a problem. Once we have an awareness of the issue, the why and the wherefor, these things drop away naturally (in theory!).

Don't think I need any kind of coaching with this, it's enough just to discuss the issue.

Anyhow, it feels as if, when I try to impress, or put on a fake front, that I dishonour my inner sense of wonderfulness. I cover that up, and perhaps confuse weakness for strength, and strength for weakness. Does that make sense? It's like an unwillingness we men have to expose our soft underbelly, or vulnerablity. Rather, we feel this need to act hard, or be 'perfect', tough and in control, more than we feel the need to be genuine, or heart-felt. Perhaps this reflects what we generally feel, women want to see in men?

[Tigerlilly]

Originally Posted by Jamie

why men feel they need to pretend to be jerks in order to impress women?

Do they? As far as simply pretending to be something else than you are goes, I guess both girls and boys equal each other. It's just for girls the center of pretense usually seems to be different than for guys.

But basically, whenever you put on a show I'd put it down to insecurity as well. I mean most people are insecure about themselves, everyone feels vulnerable. So we hide, with the not so nice result that somehow we always run around scared to be found out.

I really have no idea either why one feels like one is not enough in some respect. I never felt like that when I was a small kid, so it has to be something you learn from others later on.

[DayInTheLife]

They are emulating other men in their life.

Alpha males make a point of cutting down others to ensure their superiority. Men who want to be alpha males behave the same way. Most men belong to one of those categories.

In any case, men that speak out (even in negative ways) receive more attention from females than men who say nothing.

Making any statement opens one up to scrutiny, so many men will instinctively make a statement that disparages someone else to redirect the scrutiny away from themselves.

[The Cloud]

People pretend to be what they are because that is what everybody else wants. The person that shatters the illusion and doesn't pretend gives nobody else anything to latch their own illusions onto. So we pretend in order that others will allow us to continue to do so by playing along.

Men act like jerks because there are women that see that and are playing the game that considers that to be manly and attractive. Now the game is really going, because there are multiple players. Solitaire gets boring because there is no point in pretending. You can't win at Solitaire by cheating (pretending to be something you aren't), because there is nobody to beat. But add other people, and all of the sudden cheating (again, pretending to be other than you are) becomes a much more palatable prospect because you can convince others that you have won even if it isn't legitimate. But eventually you get caught, and the person you were playing the game with doesn't appreciate knowing that they were deceived and that you are something else.

[180]

I know the reason,

I've asked people what they though, respected, and have been nice. This leads to a life of being taken advantage of, and disrespect.

A doormat if you will.

As an avid reader of Stephen Covey and Dale Carnegie you often come across that when you give respect you get respect. This isn't always true. Especially, because people don't interpret what you do as respect. If you try to please people because you are nice they ultimately believe they have control over you. That you are pleasing them because they are better... etc.

Ahem. So why are men jerks?

It's nice to be polite, to ask people how they feel, what is their feeling. But if you do it and people will start to think you are indecisive and weak. They will begin to take control because they already you are going to ask them what to do... and probably just do it anyways.

Why men particularly?

It's because society has modeled men to be the strong leaders of society. to make the decisions and to be the domineering one. If a woman overtakes this spot, the man will feel threatened, and will do anything to reclaim that spot.

It's all simple psychology really.

I'll give you a personal example. I have a female roommate. I used to be a nice guy, generally very caring about all people.... I love animals and young kids. I get along with guys great because I'm smart enough to feed their ego. I get along terribly with women because they view me as indecisive. My female roommate in particular had very particular things that she did to piss me off. She thought I was incapable because I always asked her opinion on things (I thought i was being nice and including her in the group). But the way she ended up interpreting it is my need for her opinion to do things. To ask her OK on everything etc. Ultimately, our relationship sucked and she thought of me as a tool.

But then... I watch my other roomate. He's a total douche.

He orders her around, he makes her do things all the time. When she does something wrong he makes fun of her for it. These are things I generally don't do because I respect people. But she respects him more, and if she needs help will always go to him instead of me. Why? Because he's a jerk and likes to push people around. Some people like it.

So this is why some men are jerks. Because they get away with it. And we feel we have to or else we will lose face... And acting nice gets you nowhere sometimes. With certain people yes. With others you become a doormat.

Pick and choose who you are nice with. I've learned from my experiences. Some people treat jerks really well to gain favor with them. that is why being an jerk is reinforced

[robc]

Originally Posted by Jamie

What I want to know, is why men feel they need to pretend to be jerks in order to impress women?

Maybe "jerks" is too strong here, but certainly not being their genuine natural (and sometimes vulnerable) imperfect selves.

I remember the first woman I ever tried to impress, it was on Scarborough (north yorks, UK), I was 4, can't remember if she was an older woman (5?) or not. Anyhow, I remember, I had just come out of the sea; and from some reason, I told her I'd caught a fish, in my hand, and that it'd escaped; in an attempt to impress her.

I don't think it worked! Hmm. I must be a slow learner though, cause to this day, I still have the same mentality.

I'm not pretending, I work very hard at it thank you and apparently I'm very successful at being a jerk!!! I wouldn't necessarily say that it means I'm successful with women but being a jerk just comes naturally to me and I think alot of other men (sorry, I let the cat out of the bag) LOL!!!

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by 180

I know the reason,

I've asked people what they though, respected, and have been nice. This leads to a life of being taken advantage of, and disrespect.

A doormat if you will.

As an avid reader of Stephen Covey and Dale Carnegie you often come across that when you give respect you get respect. This isn't always true. Especially, because people don't interpret what you do as respect. If you try to please people because you are nice they ultimately believe they have control over you. That you are pleasing them because they are better... etc.

Ahem. So why are men jerks?

It's nice to be polite, to ask people how they feel, what is their feeling. But if you do it and people will start to think you are indecisive and weak. They will begin to take control because they already you are going to ask them what to do... and probably just do it anyways.

Why men particularly?

It's because society has modeled men to be the strong leaders of society. to make the decisions and to be the domineering one. If a woman overtakes this spot, the man will feel threatened, and will do anything to reclaim that spot.

It's all simple psychology really.

I'll give you a personal example. I have a female roommate. I used to be a nice guy, generally very caring about all people.... I love animals and young kids. I get along with guys great because I'm smart enough to feed their ego. I get along terribly with women because they view me as indecisive. My female roommate in particular had very particular things that she did to piss me off. She thought I was incapable because I always asked her opinion on things (I thought i was being nice and including her in the group). But the way she ended up interpreting it is my need for her opinion to do things. To ask her OK on everything etc. Ultimately, our relationship sucked and she thought of me as a tool.

But then... I watch my other roomate. He's a total douche.

He orders her around, he makes her do things all the time. When she does something wrong he makes fun of her for it. These are things I generally don't do because I respect people. But she respects him more, and if she needs help will always go to him instead of me. Why? Because he's a jerk and likes to push people around. Some people like it.

So this is why some men are jerks. Because they get away with it. And we feel we have to or else we will lose face... And acting nice gets you nowhere sometimes. With certain people yes. With others you become a doormat.

Pick and choose who you are nice with. I've learned from my experiences. Some people treat jerks really well to gain favor with them. that is why being an jerk is reinforced

Yeah this does seem like something that happens quite often. I think also,people like to be liked,and if a nice guy likes you,well,of course a nice guy will like you,cuz they like everyone. But if a jerk likes you,then you kinda "changed" him so to speak,like it takes a really cool person to get a jerk to like you,so,thats why girls like the jerks cuz it means you made someone like you. Nice guys like everyone so it doesn't make a girl feel special if a nice guy likes her.

[Plato]

Pretend to be a jerk? No no no; I really AM a jerk.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Jamie

What I want to know, is why men feel they need to pretend to be jerks in order to impress women?
Maybe "jerks" is too strong here, but certainly not being their genuine natural (and sometimes vulnerable) imperfect selves.

Because women (especially young women) tend to prefer strong, assertive, confident men? And 'jerkishness' is what results when someone who doesn't have confidence, pretends to?

[Plato]

Yeah.. I wouldn't say trying to impress people is really being a jerk. If anything a jerk doesn't care at all what people think of him. What you're talking about is a wuss.

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I don't know why some men feel that need, and it's most certainly not all men. The men around me seem to be their genuine, natural, vulnerable and imperfect selves. I don't see them trying to impress me or any other woman. Or maybe I'm being very naive?

I know this is kinda late...but maybe they're trying to impress you by being their natural, genuine and vulnerable selves. lol j/k



As for the whole jerk thing...maybe your just hanging around the wrong kind of people...? Maybe just find some people who just accept you as your vulnerable self or who are just not as 'connected' to the whole jerk thing. If all else fails you can try going on some social networking sites or meet some people here. We don't bite...i think lol.

[Rose of Cairo]

Hey Jamie, I'm rereading the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle and something made me think of you. I can't quote it because I have the German version. It's chapter 10, the section about surrender in relationships, especially the last paragraph where he talks about pretending and role playing. Have you read this book? I highly recommend to read or reread it!

Originally Posted by Jamie

I think understanding why we do things, the motivations for our (ego-based) behaviours, can be a very good first step in dropping these unwanted behaviours.

I guess I don't agree with that. In my eyes, thinking about the ego's motivations is again feeding the ego by using your mind on it instead of being present, surrendering and letting go of unwanted behaviors.

Once we have an awareness of the issue, the why and the wherefor, these things drop away naturally (in theory!).

Well, from my little experience, it doesn't work this way. But do as you wish

Anyhow, it feels as if, when I try to impress, or put on a fake front, that I dishonour my inner sense of wonderfulness.

Of course you do!

I cover that up, and perhaps confuse weakness for strength, and strength for weakness. Does that make sense?

Yes absolutely. Tolle talks about that as well.

It's like an unwillingness we men have to expose our soft underbelly, or vulnerablity

Don't generalize like that in order to hide yourself behind "men" What "men" have isn't relevant. It's about you as a unique individual. I bet this unwillingness to show your vulnerability is just your ego.

Perhaps this reflects what we generally feel, women want to see in men?

So you want to give "women" (again such a gross generalization!) what (you suppose) "they" (all) want, regardless of whether it's who you are or not? So basically, you're ready to betray your true self and fool the woman. To gain what??

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by coLLege kid07

I know this is kinda late...but maybe they're trying to impress you by being their natural, genuine and vulnerable selves. lol j/k

I hadn't thought of that!