Homosexual

[dinc]

I'd like to know what everybody thinks about being gay. Is it a choice? Is it something that can be changed? Is it contrary to your moral code or religion? Is it possible to deny your sexuality for your moral code or religion?

[robertanthony]

Here's a link to a U.K. forum Queer Youth Network - The UK's National LGBT Youth Organisation - For Gay Youth By Gay Youth - Online Resource Community, Gay, Youth, UK, Lesbian, Bisexual, Curious, Questioning, Support, Information, Representation, Message Boards, Forums, Chat, You

[Mused]

Originally Posted by dinc

I'd like to know what everybody thinks about being gay. Is it a choice? Is it something that can be changed? Is it contrary to your moral code or religion? Is it possible to deny your sexuality for your moral code or religion?

I think one could answer yes and no to all of the questions you've asked.

1) Personally I think it is as much of a choice as being heterosexual or bisexual or transexual and everything in between. I'm of the belief - if you truly love someone it shouldn't matter what sex they are.
2)Sure people change all the time and there are even "straight camps" to convert people - many are religiously based. Changing someone that does not want to be changed may not be in their best interest.
3)I have no moral code or religion conflict with my sexuality.
4)I think it's possible to deny just about anything for moral code or religion. So yes I think depending on the person, one could deny their sexuality for their moral code or religion.

I'm curious, what prompted your questions above?

[dinc]

Originally Posted by Mused

I'm curious, what prompted your questions above?

Mainly, I'm just interested in what other people think on this topic, but I didn't expect an answer so open-minded, so sadly I have very little to say :P.

Secondly, I just happen to be a gay Catholic, and it can cause some problems for me sometimes. I've seen some Christians try to make their religion conform to their sexuality, and none of the arguments sounded at all logical, so I asked a general question that I knew would eventually evolve into specifics so I could fish for some perspective on this.

[robertanthony]

Hi I just posted a link but someone removed it?

[Strokes]

What I have to say about it is this:

In your life, we all believe because of religion that homosexulity is wrong, so when you stray off that and become homosexual you might be going directly against what you believe. We are made to be man and woman, and when you twist that, which is the norm, it is abnormal, and therefore if you're doing something that is not normal you must have a reason.

I think that something happens in your life to make you that way (ex: abuse)
because if you are not doing what is thought of to be normal then something wrong had to have happened to make you look at people that way. I don't think it's wrong to love someone, but in the right way. Is it a sin to not know better? Probably not, and should you try to to change it? I would, but that's from a personal standpoint. I don't believe it is a choice.

[Dan.Linehan]

Hi dinc.

I'd like to know what everybody thinks about being gay. Is it a choice?

No, sexual attraction is not a choice. At least not in my experience. I've been attracted pretty much solely to stocky men since I was around twelve, and have no real idea why.

Is it something that can be changed?

I've known several men who identify as gay but who were married to women for 10-20 years. From the men I've spoken to who have done this, their attraction to the same sex remained predominant throughout their marriages. So, no, I don't think same-sex sexual attraction can be deleted, if that's what you mean by changed.

Some men however, did develop an additional attraction towards women from their marriages. These men would still bed a member of the opposite sex if the mood and circumstances struck them right.

Is it contrary to your moral code or religion?

Sexual hang-ups rooted in religion are against my moral code..

Is it possible to deny your sexuality for your moral code or religion?

That's simply abstinence. A gay person could choose to be abstinent, sure, just like a straight person could. Does your moral code or religion call for abstinence? Is abstinence called for from everyone equally?

[missing]

Originally Posted by Mused

I think one could answer yes and no to all of the questions you've asked.

1) Personally I think it is as much of a choice as being heterosexual or bisexual or transexual and everything in between. I'm of the belief - if you truly love someone it shouldn't matter what sex they are.?

I don't understand this viewpoint, which incidentally is almost never expressed by men, straight or gay. Are you looking for a sexless relationship? Or are you going to transform your sexual desires by sheer will to meet that of the person you "love"? And what is "truly loving" someone anyway? How would it be different from just being really good friends who live together and pool resources? So many questions, so many ways to veer a thread off topic...

that said I agree with Dan that sexual desires are not a choice. I'm not gay but I have some, I guess we'll call them "fetishes" (for lack of a better word) of my own that I definitely did not "chose" and have had them as long as I can remember. They don't really make my life easier though they don't hinder it much as it's something that's easy to keep private. This is a little different from being gay but I think the same principle applies. We really don't know the deeper reasons for why our sexuality is the way it is. So why do so many think that they do and make judgments on it about others?

In the end I think ones sexual preference is a personal matter and should not be based on some religion or other form of group-think pressure.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by dinc

Is it something that can be changed?

I think that all things are possible with the Law of Attraction.

But whether you should, and whether you should bother, is another question altogether.

[Ninja]

It is something that can change, but not something that can be changed.

Homosexuality is perfectly natural and can be seen amongst almost all species of animals. This has many functions: gay animals usually don't procreate, which means there will be more resources for the rest of the pack. Also, same-sex 'couples' tend to 'adopt' offspring from packmembers in case of death or abandoment. This means better survival odds for said offspring and thus better survival chances for the pack at whole. Humans are no different!

[Chris_1977]

Originally Posted by dinc

I'd like to know what everybody thinks about being gay. Is it a choice? Is it something that can be changed? Is it contrary to your moral code or religion? Is it possible to deny your sexuality for your moral code or religion?

I am gay and never choose to be, so it does not seem to be a choice. I think moral codes and/or religions trying to say otherwise are going against the facts. One might as well start denying that the earth is round. To some persons it happens that their sexuality spontaneously changes (very rarily, really) but is think trying to change it actively will almost never work. It is possible to decide not to have sex with a person of the same sex. Some people do that, but it does not make you non-gay. Every hunk you see walking by will tell you that as well as every sexual fantasy you are going to have.....

[Strokes]

Originally Posted by Chris_1977

I am gay and never choose to be, so it does not seem to be a choice. I think moral codes and/or religions trying to say otherwise are going against the facts. One might as well start denying that the earth is round.

It is correct, gayness most certainly is not a choice, it most usually occurs in dire and/or abusive or under wrong emotional conditions. A person who grows with the mentality that gayness is wrong does not simply decide one day to be gay. It is found scary and wrong, and even many gays are ashamed of it and try to change it because they do not want society to know.

To me its a sickness that comes over a person which they cannot control, and can be almost traumatic to deal with for some. I don't know what to say for those who are content with what they are.

[Old Soul]

Hi,

I am curious as to you how reconcile your sexuality with your catholic faith? Do you have conflict between what you are being taught in your faith , ?

[Angela]

If you're gay, you're gay; if you're straight, you're straight. Either way, hooray! You're alive, and you're related, and you're a sexual being filled with desire, you are a human being who understands the joy of being connected. You are perfect, whole, complete, and beautiful.

Straight? Celebrate!! Gay? Yay!!!!

[Chris_1977]

Originally Posted by Strokes

It is correct, gayness most certainly is not a choice, it most usually occurs in dire and/or abusive or under wrong emotional conditions.

What about some proof for this? I don't think there is any credible proof. There are more than enough gay people for whom this is not the case at all. When psychological research was just going into this, they were fairly certain that some characteristic circumstances would be found that would cause a person to be gay. This line of research never reached a conclusion, though.....

[Mused]

Originally Posted by Strokes

It is correct, gayness most certainly is not a choice, it most usually occurs in dire and/or abusive or under wrong emotional conditions. A person who grows with the mentality that gayness is wrong does not simply decide one day to be gay. It is found scary and wrong, and even many gays are ashamed of it and try to change it because they do not want society to know.

To me its a sickness that comes over a person which they cannot control, and can be almost traumatic to deal with for some. I don't know what to say for those who are content with what they are.

I will agree to disagree on this viewpoint. I've never had any sort of "dire and/or abusive" emotional conditions that resulted in me being a lesbian, gay queer whatever. A good portion of my friends are gay and the majority have never had any major abuse issues.

Stokes, I'd like to understand where you're coming from better. What makes you think that someone with an orientation other than heterosexual is a result of abuse? Is this something you've heard/read somewhere? Were you raised to believe this?

I've been in a happy content relationship with a woman for years and have never once felt it was wrong. I think the same can be said about people who do not fall into the majority of just about any social category (sexuality, physical appearance, social status, financial status, educational status etc) may feel ashamed and try to change.

[Mused]

Originally Posted by Mused

I think one could answer yes and no to all of the questions you've asked.

1) Personally I think it is as much of a choice as being heterosexual or bisexual or transexual and everything in between. I'm of the belief - if you truly love someone it shouldn't matter what sex they are.

Originally Posted by missing

I don't understand this viewpoint, which incidentally is almost never expressed by men, straight or gay. Are you looking for a sexless relationship? Or are you going to transform your sexual desires by sheer will to meet that of the person you "love"? And what is "truly loving" someone anyway? How would it be different from just being really good friends who live together and pool resources? So many questions, so many ways to veer a thread off topic...

Incidentally I am not a man so this may be just the very reason I expressed this viewpoint.

As for the choice bit I don't think who you are sexually attracted to is a choice. I am attracted to women. Although I can certainly appreciate a man's body I really cant see myself pursuing a dating/sexual relationship with a man. That said, although it's probably extremely unlikely, I would not completely rule out the idea. I cant say whether or not my sexual desires would or even could transform by sheer will if I fell in love with a man. I'm just saying that I wouldn't rule it out completely for myself. I'm using love in the sense of wanting to be in a long term dating relationship with someone vs. the really good friends who live together & pool resources.

[Strokes]

Originally Posted by Mused

Stokes, I'd like to understand where you're coming from better. What makes you think that someone with an orientation other than heterosexual is a result of abuse? Is this something you've heard/read somewhere? Were you raised to believe this?

No, I was not necessarily raised to believe this, but growing as a Christian, I have been taught to believe it is the opposite of what is right and meant to be. And many try and tell me this is the reason I've developed this mindset on the subject, but that is not all true.

What I was trying to say is that the basic teachings of nature, that it is meant to be man and woman (hence reproduction), and not only that but the fact that the majority of society supports and represents that basic knowledge and so many do not tolerate it, altogether means that this is what is believed to be normal, and that going against that would mean being abnormal. And when a person grows up in a society that mostly leans towards one side their most likely choice would be to go that way as well, because one would not willingly go against basic views for no reason.

Perhaps I was a little too blunt in not going further and simply stating that it's most likely a direct result of abuse, which in many cases it is. But you say this is not your case, but the fact still remains, and I'm not pinpointing anyone, that in a world where the majority is one sided, a person is not born one day and just sits up and decides they want to live a life that clashes with the world's views.

Also, like I mentioned, one of the most conventional natural laws is that man and woman are to be together, and in that way man and woman populate the earth's humankind, and when you pair man and man and woman and woman that's going against a surefire natural law, which suggests that, because it is common knowledge that has always been regarded as "normal", you are naturally born with these feelings and that when you divert directly from them, you are doing something so bizarre and abnormal to all who deny it that there must have been something that happened in your life ( where abuse and/or some sort of emotional distortion take place, because physicality isn't what changes in mindset, but views) to make you want to differ,whether it be just because you find yoursef attracted to the same sex, and back to it again, in society it defies common nature, so there must be a reason you feel as if you do not want, or cannot flow with the norm, and that needs emotional backup and things that occur in your brain to make you change your mind.

Can you honestly say you were born gay I wonder?

Hope my point became a little clearer (yes hope).

[Mused]

Originally Posted by Strokes

...it's most likely a direct result of abuse, which in many cases it is.

I'm still not sure I agree with you here. It seems the above statement is more of a personal opinion instead of a scientifically proven fact. Either way, I'd be curious to know the source - can you point me to some references that lead you to believe this?

Originally Posted by Strokes

Can you honestly say you were born gay I wonder?

Yes I'm of the belief I was born gay. I have been attracted to women since as far back as I can remember. It was not a learned behavior. My siblings are not gay. Neither of my parents are gay and they did not have any gay friends while I was growing up. I was raised Christian, however this did not cause any conflict for me growing up. I was not taught that homosexuality was wrong and was taught to be open minded and make an effort to understand those who are different or have different views/beliefs.

[Chris_1977]

Originally Posted by Strokes

Can you honestly say you were born gay I wonder?

Seems the most likely explanation, yes. I feel attracted to persons of the same sex starting from the time when i first began to feel sexual attraction. Say, 13 years old. What you say about that a person not just sits up and decides they want to live a life that clashes with the world's views is quite true. It comes from the consistency of the feelings.

Originally Posted by Strokes

Hope my point became a little clearer (yes hope).

Acually i don't understand any need of making this point.... Your remarks about nature just seem off. Nature does not ask for permission to be the way it is. It simply is. If 5 to 10 percent of the population is gay, that is just a fact just like the fact that about the same percentage of people is left-handed. Why not simply accept simple facts as being simple facts?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Strokes

What I was trying to say is that the basic teachings of nature, that it is meant to be man and woman

The reason why I don't agree is that homosexuality has been observed among penguins, beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, orang utans, ostriches, flamingos, macaque monkeys, chimpanzees etc.

Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate

[Marco Polo]

Lots of homos are very insightful people. Anyone else noticed that?

ehum, here my take on it. Sex drive is deeply rooted in human biology, so your orientation is not a choice. But many aspects of gay life are most definitely learned: the stereotypical gay voice, hand movements, body language etc etc. All that stuff is learned.