For those who want to suicide...

[leshka]

Go as far away from your environment as possible.

Go as far away from people you know.

Go to third world country where nobody knows you and stay there for couple of years.

You will find yourself completely changed, you will see world and life differently you basically will be reborn.

We are deeply conditioned by our environment and people who surround us. To start a new life you have to break out of present limitations, you have to breath fresh air in and feel different vibes.

When I lived in Ukraine (I am Ukrainian) I met several Americans who worked there with Peace Corps organization, those who couldn’t fit in American society and were depressed and even suicidal. Now those people happily married, have kids, good jobs and so on, some of them returned back to US, some decided to stay for good in Ukraine, but all of them are happy people now. What caused those drastic changes?

I think first reason was relocation to a third world country. You can’t think about suicide when you are surrounded by people who never think about it (we all know that people in poor countries more immune to suicide thoughts, they are too busy with their general survival). Different atmosphere, different vibes and energy. Second reason, your old outlook and conditioning disappear just because it is not valid anymore in a new environment. Third reason, people from different culture would see you absolutely differently which would change your self-image very much. People in third world countries mentally are much closer to each other, I guess because hardship and difficulties are easier to overcome together ( instinct of survival?) so you will never feel alone and find lots of new good friends.

So, before you leave this world jump into another adventure where you will realize how much you are valued, loved and needed. Learn absolutely different life that you never experienced before and the outcome may surprise you so much. Google for “Peace Corps” and find out more about the organization. I wish you much luck and a long, happy and rewarding life

[Gene]

Originally Posted by leshka

Go as far away from your environment as possible.

Go as far away from people you know.

Go to third world country where nobody knows you and stay there for couple of years.

You will find yourself completely changed, you will see world and life differently you basically will be reborn.

I moved to a third world country, The Philippines, in 2000 and find all of the benefits you mentioned in your post. I was not suicidal but I did need to reflect on what direction I wanted to take in my life.

I joke with my friends that running away from home is not for everyone but it worked for me.

I am now moving back to the U.S. with the family I have created here and am ready for the next phase of my journey.

[anamoly]

Your post really resonated within me. I would love to travel to a third world country. Thanks for making it!

[missing]

do you honestly believe someone on the cusp of ending it all can find the will to throw out everything familiar and start anew in some third world backwater?

nice try, though.

[bellemeadows]

You know, you spoke a profound wisdom in your post. Thank you!!!!

Blessings from Belle,

[norbert]

I strongly believe that you are unable to discover who you really are until you leave your family, friends etc for at least a couple of months for the first time. Especially if you're contemplating suicide, you should really find a way to leave all your past garbage behind and give it a try. One thing you may discover is how valuable your current life and the people in it are. Another thing is what and how you need/want to change to feel fantastic with your life.

[DaleCall]

Originally Posted by missing

do you honestly believe someone on the cusp of ending it all can find the will to throw out everything familiar and start anew in some third world backwater?

I think I would... I think it's the other way around, if you're willing to end it all why wouldn't you try a less drastic alternative first?

[missing]

Originally Posted by DaleCall

I think I would... I think it's the other way around, if you're willing to end it all why wouldn't you try a less drastic alternative first?

well it depends on the person really. For some desperate people the idea might work. But I think in most cases the kind of person willing to drop everything and start anew some place entirely different probably couldn't have been very suicidal to begin with. People tend to crave comfort and certainty and when they don't get enough that is when they start lapsing into hopelessness. In many ways these cravings are illusory and perhaps some would realize this if they took the OP's advice. Then again maybe doing such would really send them over the edge. But that's almost irrelevant because when you are truly hopeless/suicidal it's simply taking that first big step that is often the biggest problem, never mind where you are going and why.

In short I think the OP's advice comes from the perspective of somebody who has never felt seriously suicidal/hopeless. Which is normally the case. That said I do think that anybody willing to off themselves should try a shake up first, and really brainstorm the list of things they can try in life before making the "final decision". Just do it on a smaller, more realistic scale than what's being suggested by the OP.

[leshka]

Originally Posted by missing

.......Just do it on a smaller, more realistic scale than what's being suggested by the OP.

I think those who are/were truly hopeless/suicidal are already dead, but those who still alive still have a HOPE, which keeps them alive. I agree that it is not possible to save all suicidal people but maybe some of them still have a chance?

The world that they experience is not acceptable for them and they proved not to be able to fit or adjust. So there are only two ways to go: to die or to change the world. Moving to a different world geographically may be a good solution.

Eventually it is all about breaking patterns. Somehow those people developed very unhealthy patterns and their present environment will continue “feed” these patterns. I don’t believe it is possible to move slowly, step-by-step to a new pattern, at least it is extremely difficult to do (otherwise we all would be enlightened now) But I believe in drastic change, in “jump into 100% unknown and uncertain” when you realize that you are in a free fall and there is no way back. In this case person gets a new mental energy to move on. I am telling this because I did those “jumps” myself, something that other people thought was absolutely crazy and I succeeded and grew immensely. I don’t say that it is easy to do, to break your old patterns is equal to killing yourself mentally, to destroy everything that made sense to you. It is very painful but it is worth it!

[Old Soul]

good post!!!!

one that needed to be shared :-)

[missing]

Originally Posted by leshka

I think those who are/were truly hopeless/suicidal are already dead, but those who still alive still have a HOPE, which keeps them alive. I agree that it is not possible to save all suicidal people but maybe some of them still have a chance?

well I have to severely disagree with you on many levels. For one thing you have mis-titled this thread badly as it is not intended for those who are truly suicidal. It's more geared to those who are discontent and maybe have passing thoughts of suicide. Big difference, and I think it should be better clarified, in the post if not the title.

Secondly I disagree with your "all or nothing" thinking, though I see this as a bigger cultural problem. People want change to happen overnight. They want instant gratification. Now I don't really know where you get the idea that there is something "wrong" or "impossible" about moving slowly. I know you speak from experience, but so do I. While the "move slowly" tactic can be difficult and at times painful I do find it overall pretty rewarding. You experience things that'd you'd miss out completely with an "instant catharsis".

Another problem with massive leaps is that the higher you jump, the further you have to fall. It may work out brilliantly, and perhaps it did for you. But it can just as easily, and I'd say more likely put you over the edge. Why take the risk when it's not really necessary? I will agree with you that a major shake up in environment can be a big help, but it's not going to solve your problems at once. Now matter where you go and no matter how different it is, you are still the same person inside. Environment can hinder or help so it shouldn't be ignored, but in the end the changes you make must come from within.

And finally I would say that hope is incredibly overrated and that the only way to truly live is to give up hope completely. Once you do that, you can begin to engage with reality as it is, and not as you want it to be. You reclaim your power and your life and you can begin to move away from suicidal thoughts as begin to determine for yourself what it is you value about your existence.

In short I think your advice may have some usefulness to a select group of people who maybe have hit a brief rough patch. But to the truly suicidal/hopeless I think it comes off as patronizing. Nothing personal, just my honest reaction.

[leshka]

Originally Posted by missing

well I have to severely disagree with you on many levels. For one thing you have mis-titled this thread badly as it is not intended for those who are truly suicidal. It's more geared to those who are discontent and maybe have passing thoughts of suicide. Big difference, and I think it should be better clarified, in the post if not the title. .

My post was made on the spur of the moment after I heard from my friend who lives in Michigan that his neighbor very nice guy (19 years old )committed suicide. It was so sad to hear …and I couldn’t stop thinking about his desperate parents (my daughter is 19 too). That is why I mentioned suicide in the title. But I guess that it doesn’t matter what title is, the most important if my post would plant a little positive “seed” in someone’s mind before negative thoughts take it over. Everything starts from only one/first thought and then it is like a snow ball getting bigger and bigger…

Originally Posted by missing

Secondly I disagree with your "all or nothing" thinking, though I see this as a bigger cultural problem. People want change to happen overnight. They want instant gratification. Now I don't really know where you get the idea that there is something "wrong" or "impossible" about moving slowly. I know you speak from experience, but so do I. While the "move slowly" tactic can be difficult and at times painful I do find it overall pretty rewarding. You experience things that'd you'd miss out completely with an "instant catharsis". .

Well, I don’t see any cultural problems about this. Everything I can say is just to praise you if you are able consistently move slowly, step-by-step and reach your goal! Most of the people including me very often go in circles (if I can say so?) around the goal, they promise to fight the bad habit (pattern, distractive program) but end up doing it again and again. So any mean is good if it helps. For those who can’t be consistent and got caught into destructive pattern sometimes the only way out is complete drastic change. That is why people commit suicide ---- for the drastic change! Suicide is a last “jump” into a free fall when there is no way back. They maybe don’t know that it is possible to do it and still stay alive.

Originally Posted by missing

And finally I would say that hope is incredibly overrated and that the only way to truly live is to give up hope completely. Once you do that, you can begin to engage with reality as it is, and not as you want it to be. .

I smile! You underestimate the power of hope for sure. Just because of hope you still alive and do what you do everyday: wake up in the morning, go to work, eat, sleep, create and so on! Get it away from you and you will become a member of suicidal club at no time.

Originally Posted by missing

In short I think your advice may have some usefulness to a select group of people who maybe have hit a brief rough patch. But to the truly suicidal/hopeless I think it comes off as patronizing. Nothing personal, just my honest reaction.

I don’t care how many people would read it. If I could reach at least one person with my message I would be happy!

[InterfaceLeader]

I would agree with the OP. I've always felt that, if you were prepared to go through all the problems and trauma of suicide, then you would be easily able to cut yourself off from the world you know in another way.

If you feel trapped, there are so many ways out. Just up and disappear for a while.

Sadly, I think once people starting thinking suicidal thoughts they are usually at the point where they have so limited their ability to do anything that this message wouldn't get through. They'd get as far as step one (booking a plane ticket, maybe) and then give up. Because I guess somewhere they don't really feel they are worth it.

[MrNotebook]

Originally Posted by missing

do you honestly believe someone on the cusp of ending it all can find the will to throw out everything familiar and start anew in some third world backwater?

nice try, though.

...ever heard of courage? It takes courage and strength to pick up and move elsewhere. That is to be commended.

[MrNotebook]

Originally Posted by missing

"...the only way to truly live is to give up hope completely."

Awesome, I think today and for the rest of my life I will abandon all hope. Where do you get your amazing wisdom from?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by MrNotebook

Awesome, I think today and for the rest of my life I will abandon all hope. Where do you get your amazing wisdom from?

MrNotebook, Missing isn't talking about abandoning hope -- like, "the situation is hopeless." (please pardon me if I'm misinterpreting you, Missing.) I think (s)he is saying that hope, or any other emotion that depends on the future or the past for fulfillment and satisfaction, doesn't work well in living a life you love. So many people hang on to the hope that things will be different or get better, and by focusing on that hope, they remain blind to the reality of the moment. The hoped for relief from pain makes the present moment occur like nothing but pain, in contrast.

I agree that hope is overrated. It's not that we should "give up hope" in the sense that "things are hopeless"; it's just worth looking at the idea that boldly being present gives you the opportunity to powerfully make a difference that hoping, or other future-based living, does not.

Hope, for me, is like blame. They are just concepts that don't work in living a life I love.

That said, I also believe that when you're in the muck and mire of what you are calling a "hopeless situation" (and considering suicide as a solution), sometimes a drastic interruption of your habitual thinking is wonderful! And moving to a new location, and all the constructive focus involved with that, might be a great, inspiring way to really boldly try on a new way of being. And if your travel involves making a big difference in the lives of others, even better - more powerful!

[leshka]

Originally Posted by Angela

MrNotebook, Missing isn't talking about abandoning hope -- like, "the situation is hopeless." (please pardon me if I'm misinterpreting you, Missing.) I think (s)he is saying that hope, or any other emotion that depends on the future or the past for fulfillment and satisfaction, doesn't work well in living a life you love. So many people hang on to the hope that things will be different or get better, and by focusing on that hope, they remain blind to the reality of the moment. The hoped for relief from pain makes the present moment occur like nothing but pain, in contrast.

I agree that hope is overrated. It's not that we should "give up hope" in the sense that "things are hopeless"; it's just worth looking at the idea that boldly being present gives you the opportunity to powerfully make a difference that hoping, or other future-based living, does not. ..

Sorry, I just didn't get it what you wrote.

Here is the definition of "hope":

Hope is a belief in a positive outcome related to events and circumstances in one's life. Hope implies a certain amount of despair, wanting, wishing, suffering or perseverance — i.e., believing that a better or positive outcome is possible even when there is some evidence to the contrary.

To hope is to be OPTIMISTIC no matter what. Is it possible to overrate this?? We all hope that there is a meaning for our existence even though it looks at times like there is not.

Hope is built in mechanism within us, it is something that you can't turn off or stop... It is an ultimate life drive.
Don't mix up "hope" with "desire" or "wish"

[Angela]

Originally Posted by leshka

Here is the definition of "hope":

Hope is a belief in a positive outcome related to events and circumstances in one's life. Hope implies a certain amount of despair, wanting, wishing, suffering or perseverance — i.e., believing that a better or positive outcome is possible even when there is some evidence to the contrary.

That is indeed one definition of hope. I think it is more commonly held as these definitions describe:

the feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best: to give up hope.

a person or thing in which expectations are centered: The medicine was her last hope.

....especially when there is despair and suffering involved.

The feeling of hope, when you're feeling despair and suffering, is the focus on a possible, future outcome, and mires you in present despair and suffering. Same thing when you hope is the thing on which expectations are centered -- being attached to a future outcome is a great way to generate despair and suffering right now.

For instance, the people who despair that "that special someone" will never fall into lines with their desire to be in a relationship with them, and yet they hold onto the hope that he will! Or...."I have hope that everything will turn out alright with my abusive spouse and me!" Or...."Life is not worth living, but I have hope that someday, it will all be okay."

Someday Maybe Hopefully Living. When you are filled with hope like that, you are authorizing yourself to feel despair and suffering Now. That's fine; it's your choice if you want to do that. I find in my life that it's not empowering or effective, and that's why I say it's overrated.

My feeling of being optimistic -- that is, like yours, believing that a wonderful outcome is possible and even likely, despite evidence to the contrary -- is a deeply confident NOW, free of hoping, free of dependence on a particular expectation, and even free of knowing that I can't know what a wonderful outcome will look like!

I don't HOPE the future will be better. I am GENERATING a present moment that lays the groundwork for feeling good, now and later. Just doing that feels good, regardless of whatever surprising outcomes result.

Whatever it is, I'll handle it. That is optimism, to me. Not hope.

[missing]

Originally Posted by MrNotebook

Awesome, I think today and for the rest of my life I will abandon all hope. Where do you get your amazing wisdom from?

actually there is this guy, Steve Pavlina. Perhaps you have heard of him? He recently did a blog entry entitled "hopeless situations". Here's a sample:

What makes a hopeless situation very stressful and worrisome is when you resist it. When you accept it and surrender to it, however, you get peace instead of stress. This is true even when the final result is death.

Angela explains what I mean to an extent; ie that hope is like blame in that it it doesn't really line up with taking responsibility for ones life. In some ways it's worse in that it can be used as an excuse to stay mired in a situation one doesn't like. It also makes one outcome dependent which in most cases makes you a prisoner to things not within your control.

But I'd take it even further and ask why it's such a big deal if things really are in fact, hopeless? What if you are tied to the train tracks very tight and a train is coming at you fast? Sure you can wriggle your wrists around but your only true bet is to HOPE that you are seen by the train operator and that the train stops in time. This is very unlikely. But so what? The worst that's going to happen is that you are going to die. And what's so bad about that? Imagine how intense, how filled with life those final moments are going to be! You can pack a lifetimes worth of liveliness and experience into a few minutes! What a terrific opportunity! Which isn't to say you shouldn't try to escape, that's part of the fun! But you also shouldn't delude yourself. You're most likely going to die. And the quicker you come terms with that, the more enjoyable those final few moments are going to be.

Now imagine a suicidal person who feels so bad that even this fate (death) does not phase them. Imagine the freedom they must have! Were they to "hope" for things to get better, or something to intervene, then they lose that freedom. They are once again bound by the constraints that most people have. Where the current moment is mundane and the future is all that's worth living for. Which is hardly a healthy outlook on life, IMO. It's somewhat ironic but my bleakest moments, the moments that I really think I can throw myself of a 500 ft cliff, happen to also be the moments I feel most alive. I feel alive because I am being honest with myself, and I realize what an incredibly intense experience life is and then I wonder, "why throw all this away!?!". If only I could maintain that feeling of despair and channel it into my daily life! But like others so habitually do, I succumb to the deadness of hope.

at it's core, hope is social conditioning. Learned behavior that is out of touch and out of sync with our natural selves. The quicker you get rid of it the quicker you can find out who you really are and what you really want. That may or may not include joining the peace corps. And it may or may not include putting a bullet through your head. Do it or don't, but stop waiting for an external source to make a decision for you! Your life will pass you by!

on edit; I have to caution against using the peace corps as a way to fight suicidal tendencies. We're not talking about a self-fulfillment deal, it's work, hard work and it's a commitment. Additionally it brings many of the world's problems to the forefront of one's daily existence. Perhaps this would be a good thing for many, but it's not worth the rik. You do more harm than good by not following through on your commitments and in this case you harm others and not yourself. To resolve suicidal thoughts one needs to look within, not to a third world country.

[leshka]

Originally Posted by Angela

Whatever it is, I'll handle it. That is optimism, to me. Not hope.

Angela I think we just got lost in terms and deffinitons.

To me hope equal optimism (I know there could be two outcomes -positive and ngative, but I hope for a positive one)

Did you mean that you don't need hope just because you KNOW that the outcome WILL BE positive? Instead of "I hope I will handle it" you say "I know I will handle it" Did I understand you correctly?