Getting past core beliefs

[3nigma]

I've got some pretty strong beliefs about life. Beliefs rooted down into the core. They affect alot of things in my life, especially my 'Life Energy.' Basically, I'm an atheist, and of course with that comes various belief systems about religions, evolution, how the Cosmos came to be, etc. What it really comes down to is... life is pointless. It's nothing, just the cause of natural selection since the time of bacteria coming into existence.

As grim as that may sound, I see it totally manifesting in my reality. People die every second, right as I'm typing this sentence out. There's genocides in Africa, an ongoing war in Iraq, criminals, rapists, murders out on the loose, etc etc etc. For me, there really is no "personal development" as the idea stands. You're going to die, every moment is fleeting, so no matter how many goals you achieve, how much money you make, what you accomplish in your life... In a grand scale against the universe, it's nothing. You'll die and you MIGHT make it into a history book if you're lucky, which is totally meaningless in and of itself. The earth is just a grain of sand in a billion mile wide beach.

I remember though... when I was a kid, I never had these beliefs, even if they are true. I remember I was happy, laughing all day and having fun with simplistic forms of entertainment like watching cartoons. Seems like when you REALIZE the true nature of life, it kind of disheartens you. I guess ignorance really is bliss.

Is anyone out there exactly like they were when they were a kid as they are when they're an adult? Seriously. Do you laugh over 500 times a day? Most adults hardly laugh 5 - 10 times a day. Are you full of energy bouncing off the walls? No, most people can barely make it through the day without taking naps, trying diets and all these things. Do you taste/smell/touch/hear/see everything in your day to day activities? Are you totally fearless when trying anything new? Most people have a fear of failure that is just on a ridiculous level.

So... How do you get rid of that? It's not like you can un-learn it. You can fool yourself, yes. How long does that last though? A week where you're optimistic, and suddenly you fall back into unconscious behavior. How do you become exactly like a child, even though your core beliefs tell you that life is meaningless?

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

I've got some pretty strong beliefs about life. Beliefs rooted down into the core. They affect alot of things in my life, especially my 'Life Energy.' Basically, I'm an atheist, and of course with that comes various belief systems about religions, evolution, how the Cosmos came to be, etc. What it really comes down to is... life is pointless. It's nothing, just the cause of natural selection since the time of bacteria coming into existence.

As grim as that may sound, I see it totally manifesting in my reality. People die every second, right as I'm typing this sentence out. There's genocides in Africa, an ongoing war in Iraq, criminals, rapists, murders out on the loose, etc etc etc. For me, there really is no "personal development" as the idea stands. You're going to die, every moment is fleeting, so no matter how many goals you achieve, how much money you make, what you accomplish in your life... In a grand scale against the universe, it's nothing. You'll die and you MIGHT make it into a history book if you're lucky, which is totally meaningless in and of itself. The earth is just a grain of sand in a billion mile wide beach.

I remember though... when I was a kid, I never had these beliefs, even if they are true. I remember I was happy, laughing all day and having fun with simplistic forms of entertainment like watching cartoons. Seems like when you REALIZE the true nature of life, it kind of disheartens you. I guess ignorance really is bliss.

Is anyone out there exactly like they were when they were a kid as they are when they're an adult? Seriously. Do you laugh over 500 times a day? Most adults hardly laugh 5 - 10 times a day. Are you full of energy bouncing off the walls? No, most people can barely make it through the day without taking naps, trying diets and all these things. Do you taste/smell/touch/hear/see everything in your day to day activities? Are you totally fearless when trying anything new? Most people have a fear of failure that is just on a ridiculous level.

So... How do you get rid of that? It's not like you can un-learn it. You can fool yourself, yes. How long does that last though? A week where you're optimistic, and suddenly you fall back into unconscious behavior. How do you become exactly like a child, even though your core beliefs tell you that life is meaningless?

First of all if your into science you should realize that all of the things you named are in itself also fleeting. It is impossible to put reality in a box, no matter how much you try. You can not wrap your mind around the entirety of the universe. The very basis of science, for instance that a certain phenomenon has to be repeatable and observable means that a big part of reality already becomes less then it is.

For instance the song of a bird. You will never be able to let the same bird repeat the exact same song twice. So to make it scientific you need to use averages and boundaries. You need to say well this particular range of sound I consider the same.

If you view the entirety of reality through the lens of science your going to miss a lot of little things. A lot of little subtle changes, no one moment is ever the same. All of these little things, these little variances make life beautifull. Change gives joy not sorrow.

All the things you named are indeed 'facts' if you look at them from our current perspective in time. Right now they appear solid, they seem unchangable. They are not.

Imagine you can time travel, just as a mental experiment, now time travel 500 years into the future. Imagine that our technological and scientific progress has continue'd at the same pace.
Do you think that its possible that some of these facts you named have changed in this time? Perhaps subtly or perhaps in some major way?

You have to realize that the entirety of science is based on a very narrow viewpoint that filters out a big part of reality. If you view your entire life through this filter then yes its going to appear bleak and sterile. Just because YOU filtered it down to that point doesn't mean it actually IS bleak, dark and sterile.

Don't get me wrong, scientific facts are very usefull, they help us give structure to reality so we can better predict it. The thing is that reality isn't as structured as science would like. There is A LOT of chaos in reality that science simply can't explain. Perhaps in a distant future it'll be able to do this. Right now its simply impossible.



On happiness.
You say that most people don't laugh 500 times a day. Well I guess I'm a weirdo then, I pretty much smile and laugh all day long.
Thats because I find pretty much everything funny and amusing. I also realize I'm merely a small part of reality and thats ok with me. I find it funny that people worry so much. I find it funny if I catch myself worrying about little things. I find it funny if I trip over my own feet. I find joy in sunshine. I find joy in the sound of birds. I find joy in tree's and plants. I find joy in bringing a smile to people. I find joy and happiness in A LOT of things.

My entire world is bright. If you realize that everything that happens on this planet right now is just a small fleeting moment in time and space. Why are you choosing to focus on the negative things? Everything is just a small blip on the radar, appearing and disappearing very quickly.

When you realize this, you to can bring joy to your life. Isn't it just plain logic that if you focus on the bad stuff you'll feel bad? Is it then just as easy to focus on the good stuff and you'll feel good?


If all things in life are tiny and fleeting then why are you bothered by anything ever again.
I also belief that there is beauty in everything, sure it'll disappear soon, sure its just a small part of reality, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it NOW.

If nothing matters then you are free to do anything. If you truly belief these things at your core then you would have no fear, no anxiety's at all. Simply because those feelings become pointless at that point. Because of these questions you asked your basically telling us that these are not core beliefs at all. These are things you accept as truth, core beliefs are a part of who you are. Core beliefs don't change with new research. Core beliefs are with you from your birth. You might belief the things above very strongly but they are NOT core beliefs.

[smartile]

3nigma,

Use Praxis. Praxis means integrating beliefs with behavior.

For more, see: How to Change Your Beliefs with Praxis

[Jamie]

Yep, you are going to die, and you can't take your money or acheivements with you. I don't think anyone knows (for sure) what's going to happen to us when we die. I don't think it's important.

For me, a big part of the personal development thing, is that it's me becoming the person I want to be, who I choose to be, and I set the bar pretty high for myself. Yes, one day I will die and it will all be for nothing, so far as I know, but as I live, I'll know, I have in my mind what I seek for myself, what I strive for, to be.

On the flip side, someone once said, thought is like a little boat upon the sea, everybody is a part of everything anyway, you can have everything if you let yourself be.

How does letting yourself be, tie in with, striving to be the best person you can be, who you are?

[Terumoto]

Are you crazy? It should be easy for you!

Children are excellent at doing pointless things. They play for no particular reason, and have a blast.

Knowing that this life is pointless, it's up to you whether you have a good time or not. Even if you don't, it doesn't matter, because it's pointless. There's no problem for you to solve, unless you don't really believe this whole thing is pointless.

[thesnowyeti]

I know exactly what you're talking about; the world becomes quite harsh when we realize that we could be here by accident, and that we're not in the center of the universe, and that there is no giant bearded man in the sky to make sure our lives ultimately mean anything more than that of a cell in our body or an ant in a colony. Although science tells us these depressing things, it also explains why people believe otherwise. It's entirely possible to see meaning in life without deluding oneself; if anything, science has actually helped me discover my reason for being alive. The way I see it, evolution has provided us with the right tools to give our life meaning. lucky us.

Theists often argue that 'the beauty of nature' is proof of the existence of god; I see it as proof of the efficiency of evolution. Our perception and interpretation of our senses was created by evolution, and so was our view of good and bad. The things we view as 'Good' are the things that helped our ancestors survive; all of those who didn't enjoy food, shelter, sleep, sex, hunting & gathering, etc, obviously didn't have kids and didn't contribute to the gene pool. But the ones who were most proficient at survival enjoyed the tasks that kept them alive and reproducing, which is why we enjoy them too. Now consider spirituality, love, and happiness alongside food and shelter; They are also part of our genes because they helped our ancestors survive. Evolution has provided us with the most important elements of being human; the ability to perceive beauty and goodness, and the will to stay alive and enjoy life. We all have that ability, because if our ancestors didn't have the ability to enjoy life, there would have been no reason to live long enough to have kids.

What gives me joy in life is the beauty of the entire process. We strive towards good because it helps us survive, and the reward system that evolution put in place for doing things such as eating, being warm, ****ing, basically surviving and reproducing, is a release of dopamine, the 'good' that comes with survival. Spirituality may be a leftover instinct that is now inefficient or counterproductive (just like anger in today's world) but it exists for a reason; it gives us the will to live by creating happiness in everyday life and a reason to carry on and reproduce. I see spirituality as a means of releasing dopamine constantly. Even though our lives may be a small part of a huge process, and even though we probably won't know what that process's purpose or result is, we are blessed with the ability to experience good and happiness whenever we want.

Although I am an atheist as well, I can feel what theists call 'God.' I feel it in the fact that trees and the sky and the sunset and warmth are beautiful and good. Being surrounded by these things in their everyday life made our ancestors more likely to survive and pass their genes to us if some part of their genes determined that they perceive those specific experiences as 'good'. Being surrounded by good things all the time obviously makes life worth living. My purpose in life is to seek happiness, all the while knowing that it is simply an illusion, a method of creating the will to survive, blindly put in place by evolution. I know happiness feels good, though, and it's all we've got in this life, so we might as well strive towards it.

Theists often speak of a sense of 'awe' associated with god. Observing science and evolution gives me a sense of awe, knowing how happiness came to be, or our perception of colors and sounds, or the autonomous organization of cells that form every bit of life, or the structure of the universe. This sense of awe and appreciation gets stronger the more I learn about nature, and the fact that all of this appeared here by itself is now more comforting and amazing than frightening. Try simply appreciating perception, nature, and everything you're surrounded by, and your life will become so much happier. Think of our place in the evolutionary scale as a blessing; the next time you feel happy, thank SCIENCE or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or whoever you wish, just be glad that you have the ability to experience positive things. Knowing why we experience happiness doesn't change the fact that we're always able to.

Although our lives won't make a difference on the scale of our entire race, what matters is that they make a difference to us. We'll never know the end result of evolution, because we'll be dead in the blink of an eye, like one of the 10,000,000 cells that die and get replaced every second in our bodies. The only thing we can perceive is our own thoughts, feelings, and senses, so the larger scale of things really doesn't matter. Although our thoughts about life may make it seem meaningless, our feelings and instincts make it entirely meaningful. It helps not to worry about the fact that we're simply test subjects in the trial-and-error process of natural selection. If we have to be guinea pigs, at least we get to be happy ones .

[Fullcrum]

Freelancer - I would give science more credit than what you give it. I am hugely into science, especially biology and ecological issues (actually I love all science), and the impact it has on our world is much greater than a collection of facts.

That said, your point stands - viewing the WORLD through the lens of SCIENCE will limit it. Science is a wonderful and useful tool - and a vast tool at that.

[3nigma]

Thesnowyeti, I know what you mean. I really do find life beautiful. I can look at a tree and notice all the beauty of nature, or interactions between people and notice the goodness of mankind. In fact, it IS the fleeting moment that makes things beautiful. Knowing that eventually, you won't exist anymore makes you really appreciate the NOW. The underlying "pointless or meaninglessness" of it doesn't seem to matter, and doesn't really detract from the experience of life. Although at times, I look at the world through my logical left brained objectionable view of reality and start thinking "Well, it isn't fair, natural selection is so cold, etc" which sometimes makes the present moment ignorable.

I'm EXTREMELY into lucid dreaming, and the moments you spend consciously aware in dreams are... I can't even describe their beauty. I've woken up crying several times due to the beauty I witnessed just moments before in my head. I can honestly say the things I've seen/done in lucid dreams are the best moments I've ever had in my life. So yes, I am grateful to *Not God, but this weird universe we live in,* However it was created.

[astra]

You should read the 'Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy' series (5 books in total). I know it's totally fiction and all that, but it changed the way I felt about life. The thing is, no matter why we might be here or how we got here, if you really think about it, it's a miracle that we're here at all. So just enjoy it. I'm pretty sure most people have those down moments where we think that the world's not fair, but you can't change that. Worry about those things you can change. Don't let the guilt of being better off overwhelm you.

My desktop background is a picture of a dwarf galaxy taken through a telescope on a NASA satellite. It's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, and I wish I could see it up close, but even travelling at the speed of light I'd never get there in my remaining years. It reminds me just how trivial things are when I'm feeling down.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

I've got some pretty strong beliefs about life. Beliefs rooted down into the core. They affect alot of things in my life, especially my 'Life Energy.' Basically, I'm an atheist, and of course with that comes various belief systems about religions, evolution, how the Cosmos came to be, etc. What it really comes down to is... life is pointless. It's nothing, just the cause of natural selection since the time of bacteria coming into existence.

As grim as that may sound, I see it totally manifesting in my reality. People die every second, right as I'm typing this sentence out. There's genocides in Africa, an ongoing war in Iraq, criminals, rapists, murders out on the loose, etc etc etc. For me, there really is no "personal development" as the idea stands. You're going to die, every moment is fleeting, so no matter how many goals you achieve, how much money you make, what you accomplish in your life... In a grand scale against the universe, it's nothing. You'll die and you MIGHT make it into a history book if you're lucky, which is totally meaningless in and of itself. The earth is just a grain of sand in a billion mile wide beach.

I remember though... when I was a kid, I never had these beliefs, even if they are true. I remember I was happy, laughing all day and having fun with simplistic forms of entertainment like watching cartoons. Seems like when you REALIZE the true nature of life, it kind of disheartens you. I guess ignorance really is bliss.

Is anyone out there exactly like they were when they were a kid as they are when they're an adult? Seriously. Do you laugh over 500 times a day? Most adults hardly laugh 5 - 10 times a day. Are you full of energy bouncing off the walls? No, most people can barely make it through the day without taking naps, trying diets and all these things. Do you taste/smell/touch/hear/see everything in your day to day activities? Are you totally fearless when trying anything new? Most people have a fear of failure that is just on a ridiculous level.

So... How do you get rid of that? It's not like you can un-learn it. You can fool yourself, yes. How long does that last though? A week where you're optimistic, and suddenly you fall back into unconscious behavior. How do you become exactly like a child, even though your core beliefs tell you that life is meaningless?

I was raised atheist, and I've never come to the conclusion that life was pointless. Neither has life, either, judging by appearances. You know life occurs in the most unusual of places? Life happens, these tiny little single cell organisms exist in parts of this planet where you'd think nothing could possibly live. I grew up learning science and art and all of these other amazing things, and I've travelled all over the world, seen some amazing things - some terrifying things as well - but I've never once felt it was pointless.

Life has an insistence on being. Maybe life is a purpose in and of itself. Why do organisms grow up in sulfurous lakes? Why bother because seriously, that doesn't look much like a life from the outside. Yet it's still there. Life has a persistence and an ingenuity that just astounds me. What's even better is that I'm actually here, and I'm part of it. I don't need a god or a spirituality of any particular kind to appreciate it - I find magic in just what's around me all the time. It might sound like ridiculous nonsense to you, and that's fine, but I've always lived in a personal world without a god, or gods, or goddess, with no theology or dogma and I find that life itself is point enough.

Have you heard of a guy called Viktor Frankl? He was a psychologist who survived the concentration camps during WWII. He came to the conclusion that in order to survive under extreme circumstances, you needed a sense of purpose. It sounds like that's what you're after: a feeling that your life has a deeper meaning to it. Frankl decided his purpose was to help people cope with the extreme situations they faced in the camps, and that's what he did. There was even a woman who, whilst she was dying in hospital, decided that her purpose was to be a witness to the tiny budding cherry blossom outside her window.

I guess what I'm saying is, you can find purpose in life itself. If your views are atheist, that doesn't wipe out meaning. Revel in the life that's all around you, in the amazing discoveries of science over the past two hundred years. Be amazed at the way life keeps on going against all odds. Or feel that your purpose is to challenge people to think about purpose on this very discussion topic!

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

Freelancer - I would give science more credit than what you give it. I am hugely into science, especially biology and ecological issues (actually I love all science), and the impact it has on our world is much greater than a collection of facts.

That said, your point stands - viewing the WORLD through the lens of SCIENCE will limit it. Science is a wonderful and useful tool - and a vast tool at that.

I'm in the process of switching educations from Biology and Medical Laboratory Research (bachelor) towards Biology (academical) and yeah I love science as well.

Exactly, basing your entire world philosophy on science simply doesn't work. There is literally more between heaven and earth, the very basis of science admits this.

[Christian223]

3enigma, there is a technique to do just that, its called EFT. It looks very werid, but it works, you dont need to understand how it actually works, but you just do it and it will make what it promises.

Tapping.com - Free EFT Videos - Emotional Freedom Technique see this site and try to follow the instructions on how to do it.

Ill give you a brief introduction on how to use it: The most important thing is to FOCUS on the feeling that that particular belief brings you, i assume that you are not happy having those beliefs, but for now, pick just one belief, one that really affects you, for example "my life is pointless", feel the emotion, focus on it, try to increase it, where does it feel in your body?, in your stomach?, throat?, focus on it, in a scale from 1 to 10, how intense is that feeling?, remember this numer because when you finish youll notice that the intensity will decrease, and then start tapping. Do as many rounds as necesary until the intensity reaches 0.

IF it isnt very effective try asking "why" to those beliefs, as in "why is my life pointless?", "because im going to die", "why i am going to die?", "because im an accident of natural selection", and so on, get to the core of the issue.

I wish you the best, good luck.

EFT Provides Impressive Health and Emotional Freedom--New Discovery Often Works Where Nothing Else (the oficial site), there are other video in youtube too.

[Acting Like Godot]

I was just about to say this:

Originally Posted by Joely

I was raised atheist, and I've never come to the conclusion that life was pointless.

.... then I read your post and saw that you'd already said it.

[gwhutton]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

. How do you become exactly like a child, even though your core beliefs tell you that life is meaningless?

dude, I don't think you're being honest with yourself. Its not your beliefs that life is meaningless that are holding you back, its whatever society programmed into your brain that you SHOULD be after in life. The reason that kids are so happy is that they still think life is meaningless, so they can focus ONLY about getting that next cool thing. THAT is why they are so happy, becasue THAT is the only thing on their minds, not what they SHOULD be doing. Its when we learn that we should behave, follow laws, go to school, get a decent job, etc that we get all ****ed up.

Its pretty tough to separate what society programmed your brain to chase after and what you REALLY want to chase after.

so you could go through all kinds of belief erasing with praxis and EFT (I'm actually going the EFT route myself)

OR

just start running up to girls and grabbing their boobies, and grabbing wadfulls of cash wherever you see it.....see how long that lasts..

I wouldn't recommend the latter unless you can run really fast and have lots of disguises...

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

Is anyone out there exactly like they were when they were a kid as they are when they're an adult? Seriously ..... Are you full of energy bouncing off the walls? No, most people can barely make it through the day without taking naps, trying diets and all these things.

Little kids sleep a lot, by the way. That's why they are so energetic when they're awake.

[Rockchick26]

You might wanna check out the book "The Four Agreements" by Don Miquel Ruiz. Its actually a series but if you just get that first one,it will explain how society changes us from our natural,childlike state. We are not supposed to be molded into anything,we are supposed to live how we want to live,and be FREE. What you are feeling is a direct result of how we are raised. The rest of the books in the series go into detail with other aspects of your life and there is also one that gives step by step instructions on how to break out of this pattern. I myself haven't done that yet,i borrowed that book to a friend and haven't gotten it back,so i can't say what exactly you have to do,but check out that book if you can,it's pretty eye opening! That was one of the first books i read when i started to explore the meaning of life/enlightenment,etc. and it was like a gateway that opened my mind and from there on,i couldn't stop! :-)

[Fullcrum]

To the opening poster: I'm amused. You think that life is inherently meaningless because you believe you are the product of natural selection and no consciousness was used in your making. But that is meaning in itself. Why are you assigning meaning and limiting something? It all just is. Isn't that ultimate "meaninglessness?" Allowing things to be as they are?

The reason children are so playful and happy is because they lack the social conditioning that leaves the majority of society trapped in thought. Trapped in their minds, unable to shut off the cogs and wheels of mind machinery.

The solution is to be in a state of no mind. Isn't this more "objective" than trying to think your way to some solution? Just be.

You seem to believe that adults who are otherwise than what you describe are "fooling themselves." Hahaha. If you would cease conscious thought for a moment you would realize this is a mind projection. The mind trying to make sense of some concepts. Some thoughts in the head. And reality cannot be boxed in. Notice when you stop thinking you notice more about you. It was always there, but the perception was not dialated enough.

[kpugh]

A book called The Celestine Prophecy had an impact on my ability to shift my thinking from negative to positive...and that wasn't even really what the book was about. The book is fictional, it's a short, quick read, and it has stuck with me for years.

Also - there's a board game out there called "Shift" that was co-created by a life coach and a comedian. It's a fun game that is designed, at it's core, to help us recognize our self-defeating behaviors and habits, and learn how to "shift" them to love, and healthier thought pattens. I'm sure you can find it online with a simple search. There are groups of people in my town who have begun getting together to play this game...and they're turning into their own little support groups and success teams. It's pretty interesting!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

How do you become exactly like a child, even though your core beliefs tell you that life is meaningless?

That feeling you described as childlike: joyful, laughing, energetic, free, adventurous, fearless. For some kids and some adults, life occurs like that when we're not busy making meaning, but rather, just being really present in the moment. Then when we start manufacturing meaning without awareness, that vitality turns to something else, like despair ("life is meaningless; why bother?") or destructiveness ("life is meaningless, it's all chaos, let's go loot and pillage!") or numbness ("life is meaningless; it's all so boring.")

But another way to look at it is: Life is meaningless, why don't I make some meaning that feels good? The way a little kid asks her friend, "what shall we make up now?" -- a meaningless life is a blank slate, and you can make it feel good or bad, depending on what you write on it.

For me, that meaning is: I'm here to feel good on purpose. The reason I'm here is to generate love, joy, connection, and freedom. That meaning is not inherent to the Universe; I just made it up. It works for me! And like any little kid with an idea of a fun game to play, I feel inspired to say to all you other little kids: Ya wanna play this game of feeling good, and generating things that inspire us? Ya wanna make some real magic?

Which is not to say you *should* play my game. The game (meaning) you invent may be something else entirely. It's just a matter of what works. And like any little kid, you can change the rules of the game at any moment -- just wipe the slate clean and say, ok, let's play a new game now!

Transforming how reality occurs for you in the blink of an eye. That's what I call real power.