Question on "Act as if..."

[Acting Like Godot]

The first point to note, before we proceed, is that we've currently narrowed the "act as if" discussion to a very narrow aspect - relating to confidence/competence. I'm fine to proceed on this basis - but thought that I should just point that out.

"Act as if" in fact can extend to all sorts of other things. For example, if you are over-anxious and suffering from stress, one effective way to relax and calm down is simply to breathe like a deep relaxed, calm person - that is, breathe deep and slow. By imitating the physiology of a calm, relaxed person, you do become calm and relaxed. This is a simple example of "act as if" at work.

Originally Posted by nick pagan

The thing that I discovered through my engineering studies and through life in general is that every problem has a cause. Discover the cause and eliminate it and all the symptoms of the cause disappear. If you can't eliminate it then understand it, contain it and manage it.

This relates to human personality as much as it does to engineering.

The above may be true, but I think it is not correct to attribute this to the scientific method. In just about any field of human activity, it would be true to say that every problem has a cause - but it is eminently incorrect to suggest that the scientific method can or should be applied to discovering the cause of any sort of problem.

As a mattter of fact, there are numerous problems in law, economics, sociology, politics, accountancy, human resource management, art, finance, music, literature, religion, architecture, business, commerce, education etc etc which are simply not susceptible to investigation by the scientific method.

It's the basis of all effective (i.e. predictable and repeatable) problem solving. The mysteries of the mind and of personality are understandable (and hence controllable) through understanding the cause and effect mechanisms at work.

My, now you sound like a Buddhist.

As a matter of fact, "every problem has a cause" sounds like a description of the law of karma which the Dalai Lama once used.

Which simply goes to show, once again, that you can't apply the scientific method to everything.

If it is only ever a feeling or belief then, according to this definition, I am wrong. My definition of confidence is the certainty of achieving a result and hence my proposal that confidence comes from competence, i.e. why leave it as a feeling or belief when it can be changed into a known certainty (or as far as is reasonably possible)? I would always opt for that and engender it in my life rather than for depending upon a feeling or belief.

Your definition doesn't take us very far, because if we go by such a definition, there are numerous things I am confident about. I am confident, for example, that I can use a fork and spoon; that I can walk; that I can put on my own shirt; that I know how to turn on a TV set.

Once you look at this way, confidence looks rather irrelevant. A more meaningful definition has to include the idea of achieving a positive result in circumstances which may objectively be regarded as challenging or difficult.

With most of the other arguments that you make you mix one level of ability with a separate level of ability in order to prove your point.

Then ignore those particular arguments.

The simple point is that some people are more confident than others, even when there is no difference in their competence level for that specific activity in question.

For example, suppose you and I are to do something that neither of us have ever done before and both of us have no relevant past experience or skills (it could be to learn to fly a helicopter; or learn Japanese in six weeks; or whatever).

One of us is going to be more confident than the other. Confidence will certainly not be the sole determinant of success, but clearly a big lack of confidence can be a major disadvantage.

And if a big lack of confidence is the problem, then I think that the "act as if" approach may certainly help.

A lack of confidence in one's abilities normally comes from a recognition that the abilities are not up to delivering the desired result. Developing more ability develops more confidence. I really don't see how a great surplus of confidence can overcome the very real deficit in ability needed to deliver a result?

Okay, here is a simple example.

I used to be in the army. Now, when a batch of new recruits come in for Basic Military Training, all of them are exposed to new scenarios and situations, where all of them are equally inexperienced and equally new. Nevertheless some recruits are obviously more confident than others, generally, (and not just in relation to one or two particular activities).

Now, one of the things that all recruits have to learn is how to throw a grenade. This is very easy. Basically:

(1) you pull the safety pin;
(2) you throw the grenade as far as you can, over a fortified concrete wall;
(3) you duck for cover, behind the fortified concrete wall;

It is REALLY not much to learn, in terms of competence. A kid should be able to do it. During the dry run, (when all the recruits throw a dummy grenade filled with sand), everybody gets it right, 100%, all the time.

But when it comes to the actual throwing of a live grenade, there is a very real training risk. The risk is the frightened recruit.

In every batch, when it comes to the throwing of a live grenade, you'll inevitably find some recruit who is so lacking in confidence that he can't get Steps (1) to (3) right. He will be nervous, frightened, scared. He will do something dumb like:

(a) throw the grenade before pulling the pin (which is funny, but not dangerous); or

(b) pull the pin but forget to throw the grenade - he stands there frozen in fear, with the activated grenade in his hand (this is VERY dangerous); or

(c) pull the pin and out of nervousness, drop the grenade at his own feet (this is VERY dangerous).

And well, people have died, because of this.

An extreme example perhaps, but it demonstrates how a lack of confidence actually chokes your competence. It should be well in the competence of every able-bodied person to perform Steps 1 to 3, but the lack of confidence can completely paralyse that competence.

The effects of the lack of confidence on competence probably happen all the time in everyday life, albeit in smaller, less dramatic ways.

Other than building competence to deliver desired results, what is your solution for people who don't feel confident to do something? And by this I mean a reliable and dependable solution with a very high likelihood of success and without relying upon luck?

Personally I tinker with interesting little things like self-hypnosis. Not for confidence (I happen to have that attribute in abundance), but for other sorts of behavioural patterns. But I don't think you'll want to hear me go on about self-hypnosis, so I won't.

Outside of self-hypnosis, I would suggest that for people lacking confidence to do something, one approach is to analyse why you lack confidence; in what other situations have you experienced a similar lack of confidence; what is the common factor in these situations; when did this all begin, and why.

If the person traces it back far enough, often he will see that there was a specific incident or series of incidents which caused the lack of confidence, and then he will realise that the lack of confidence is irrational, because what happened in that distant past is really quite different from the situation now.

For example, if a person lacks confidence at work, he may trace it to a time when he was doing badly in school and his confidence got hammered. On further analysis, he may realise that in fact, his current work is very non-academic in nature, and the fact that he did badly in school should not prevent him from doing his work well now. This realisation may lead to greater confidence.

The other way is to "act as if".

You see, you have suggested that to build confidence, you have to build competence first. The problem is that in the first place, the lack of confidence prevents you from building competence, because without the confidence, you won't even try (you're just like the kid clinging to the edge of the pool screaming for Mummy's help).

If you could "act as if" you were more confident, you might release your grip on the edge of the pool. You may push off gently into the water. You may realise that it's not so scary to have water up to your neck. Then you may realise that it's not so scary to put your face in the water and blow bubbles. Next you may realise that even if you swallow some water, you won't die. And next you'll try a little kicking in the water ... and next ..... and next .... and suddenly you can swim.

But first you gotta release your grip on the edge of the pool. Yes, you're scared. Here's where "acting as if" would help you.

[Tim Brownson]

I'm going to respond to Nick breifly.

I often don't agree with posts and mostly I ignore them. I had to comment on yours because as I said, in my opinion, it is damaging and false and serves no value whatsoever.

If you allow external events to dictate internal feelings then you have a problem with self-esteem and I have dealt with enough real world examples to have an underdstanding of how that works. One of the common threads running through many successful people is a strong internal locus of control. They take on new ventures confident that they will succeed, they don't wait to succeed before they feel confident. The latter makes success far less likely and ALG demonstrated that well with his grenade story. That is EXACTLY how it works.

BTW. I could have given hundreds of examples, they were just the ones that popped into my mind. If you look at people at the top of their field they are pretty much all confident people in whatever they do. I'm sure you know this, but the average millionaire goes bankrupt over 3 times. Surely they should have their confidence crushed and be unable to bounce back after the first time using your logic. Most remain just as confident in their own abilities even though they screwed up. Imagine having a neurologist performing his first solo opertaion and not feeling confident that he can do it. Shaky hands anybody?

I've never read any major authority that agrees with what you're suggesting Nick. So either you maybe have it wrong, or you're right, and they're all wrong. Tough call

[z1freeride]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Clearly you must be mistaken:

1. Firstly, in any sample of equally competent or incompetent people, you will quite likely find varying levels of confidence.For example, if 20 kids with no swimming skills whatsoever sign up for a beginners' class, you will find a few kids with extraordinary confidence, and few kids who cling desperately to the edge of the pool and scream for Mummy to come save them.

2. Your key point is that competence builds confidence, and I don't disagree with that - what I disagree with is the absolute manner with which you have made that point. You don't see, for instance that confidence can stem from any number of factors other than competence - for example, a person who does not fear the consequences of failure will be confident even if he is incompetent. So for instance, a person may confidently step up to the karaoke mike and sing even though he is musically incompetent; simply because he is not afraid to embarrass himself and sees it all as just good fun really.

3. You also don't see that confidence can build competence. The confident kid who boldly jumps into the pool even though he can't swim, and keeps trying to kick and splash and stroke and float as directed by his coach will learn to swim much sooner than the frightened kid who's still clinging to the edge of the pool.

4. You also fail to see that a lack of confidence can impede competence. You may be very competent in something - for example, in engineering - but a lack of confidence impedes your own competence. For example, you are asked to give a speech on Topic X, or compete in a tennis match. You actually know the topic very well, or you acually can play tennis very well, but your lack of confidence ---> nervousness ---> mistakes and errors ----> a much less competent performance than you should actually be able to deliver.

5. The "competence builds confidence" argument works best, really, for endeavours requiring a high degree of skill. For example, we may justifiably say that you cannot be confident about performing heart surgery unless you have acquired competence through proper medical training. However, there are numerous other everyday situations where confidence is pretty much the solution in itself, as opposed to competence that has to be acquired through extensive training and skill. Basic social interaction is a prime example. Sure you need to know some things like how to shake hands, say hello and introduce yourself - but even kids know that. The knowledge is not the issue, the confidence is.

6. Let me add that competence doesn't always lead to confidence either. In your own experience, you must have come across people who possess quite decent skills in X (based on some objective measure), and yet are insecure about themselves and don't believe that they're good.

I think I've pretty much chewed through your points. You may wish to do a rethink of your hypothesis.

But don't lose confidence, ok.

I think that the term "confidence" can be defined differently by various people - even by one person.

I know that Nick's blog has personally helped me in my self-development efforts - especially in the procrastination area.

[Chado2423]

Even after all of this arguing about competence vs. confidence... you can't realistically "act as if" you have money... "act as if" you are competent when you aren't... "act as if" you have confidence when you don't. One of you mentioned swimming, which is one of my favorite passtimes... But the first time I went in the pool I was afraid of the water, I lacked both competence and confidence... I didn't even want to be in it, but my dad pushed me in the pool... after a few sessions of learning how to move in the water, I eventually broke my fear of the water, and now when I go to my family reuinions I can swim very far out into the lake, further than most of my cousins. I don't have speed... they waste their energy, swimming so energetically and so fast... I swim slow, but further. Nonetheless my point is that "Act as if" just doesn't work... you can't "Act as if" you are an olympic swimmer the first time you enter the pool... you have to be taught, you have to be trained, you have to know how to move in that setting. I can't be a millionare, by "acting as if" I'm one, when I only have two dollars in my pocket. Indtead I have to break past my fear of being broke... I may need to actually accept that I'm broke, depressed etc, before I can move foreward and get a job and make money. Being happy, and acting as if you are happy are two different modalities... and this debating between competence and confidence just really proves that this method doesn't work. Pushing past the fear of going to a job interview, is the only way you can overcome that fear. But this only works when the situation is tailored to your desire. For example, supposing you want to get a job at the pizza joint. You go in for the interview, but they aren't looking for someone like you. So even if you put on a smile (a happy face) they still may not hire you, because their modality is different from yours.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

Even after all of this arguing about competence vs. confidence... you can't realistically "act as if" you have money... "act as if" you are competent when you aren't... "act as if" you have confidence when you don't. One of you mentioned swimming, which is one of my favorite passtimes... But the first time I went in the pool I was afraid of the water, I lacked both competence and confidence... I didn't even want to be in it, but my dad pushed me in the pool... after a few sessions of learning how to move in the water, I eventually broke my fear of the water, and now when I go to my family reuinions I can swim very far out into the lake, further than most of my cousins. I don't have speed... they waste their energy, swimming so energetically and so fast... I swim slow, but further. Nonetheless my point is that "Act as if" just doesn't work... you can't "Act as if" you are an olympic swimmer the first time you enter the pool... you have to be taught, you have to be trained, you have to know how to move in that setting. I can't be a millionare, by "acting as if" I'm one, when I only have two dollars in my pocket. Indtead I have to break past my fear of being broke... I may need to actually accept that I'm broke, depressed etc, before I can move foreward and get a job and make money.

Can I just say that I'm glad to read this - you sound like you're feeling better. This is great progress

[z1freeride]

Originally Posted by Tim Brownson

they don't wait to succeed before they feel confident.

That isn't necessarily what Nick is promoting.

In my experience I used to set high goals. These high goals caused negative emotion because my current capabilities were so far from achieving them. This negative emotion then caused me to procrastinate... and sometimes give up on the goal.

I now focus on small goals because I know that when I achieve goals, I am more likely to feel positive emotion which further helps me along the process.

I am less likely to procrastinate writing a paragraph than I am writing a 10 page research paper. My whole life, I've been taught by "self help" gurus to change my belief system. Change my beliefs from "I can't write a 10 page paper" to "I can...".

The reality is that in one sitting, I can't write a 10 page paper. I don't posses the competence to do so. I can do small chunks though which eventually will lead to a 10 page paper.

This is what I believe Nick is promoting. And it's helped this past semester. Thanks Nick!

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

Even after all of this arguing about competence vs. confidence... you can't realistically "act as if" you have money... "act as if" you are competent when you aren't... "act as if" you have confidence when you don't.

I know your problem. You got dumped by your girlfriend and you went into pieces.

While that is a very understandable reaction, it is NOT the only possible reaction. Millions of mens have been dumped by their wives / girlfriends in the history of mankind, and the reactions come in a wide variety.

Some think, "Oh, this is so sad that I'll kill myself" and they do.
Some immediately plot to stalk their girlfriend and scratch her car.
Some say, "Good riddance to bad rubbish" and move on.
Some say, "That bitch" and fume in anger for the next three years of their lives.
Some grieve and cry for a month, or two months, and then get on with life.
Some suddenly decide that they prefer to have sex with men instead.
Some grieve and cry, until the next new pretty skirt comes along, then they excitedly chase after the next new pretty skirt.
Some become priests.
Some resolve to swear off serious relationships, and pursue one-night stands instead.
Some philosophically say, "Well, it's sad that our love didn't last, but better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved at all."

Etc etc.

And most of these millions of men have never heard of "acting as if". Yet they have all chosen their own specific reactions, although there isn't necessarily a lot of consciousness in that choice.

Now, what is the "act as if" principle really all about? It is really about the ability or capacity to choose your own mental attitude. Stephen Covey doesn't refer to it as "act as if". Instead he uses the stimulus-response explanation.

His explanation goes like this. If you shine a light at an earthworm, it curls up and tries to escape. The light is the stimulus. The attempt to escape is the response. An earthworm, exposed to this kind of stimulus, will always respond in this way.

But human beings are not earthworms. For us, between the stimulus and the response, there is a gap. This is the gap which we can work on and expand. This is the gap which allows us to choose our response.

This is the underlying principle of the "act as if" approach. You are in a certain situation, X. Your automatic reaction is to respond in a certain way, to act in a certain way, Y.

But there is an ability in you to choose your own response. You can choose to act in other ways. That is, you can "act as if ___[insert desired mode of behaviour".

Obviously there are limits as to "act as if". For example, if you are really an utter snivelling coward, you may not be able to act as if you were a great big hero. However, you could probably succeed in acting as less of an utter snivelling coward.

There is a very key point I want to emphasise here.

Every day, people are already behaving according to their own preprogrammed scripts. They are already acting. They are acting according to their unconscious patterns, created by their past conditioning, behaviour, experiences etc, tracing back to the day they were born.

The question is whether you're content to accept the scripts which you've mindlessly, unconsciously or subconsciously picked up through the years. Or whether you want to consciously choose the best scripts for yourself, that you can.

Even personality is a script.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by nick pagan

The things that are easy in life are the things that we have great competence in doing. There was a time when you couldn't speak, couldn't walk, couldn't interpret a facial expression. You had to learn all of these skills through daily training and interaction.

I'm a dad. I absolutely love little kids around 9 to 14 months old. That's the age when they start learning to stand and walk and toddle around.

They fall, and hurt themselves, and cry, so many times that it's amazing that they keep trying anyway. They never give up. Their confidence is astounding. And eventually it pays off - the confidence leads to competence.

[Bene]

You're getting what you are thinking about both subconsciously, and superconsciously.

I've re-written some of what you have typed so you can change your thought patterns. Asking the right questions with a positive expectation can get you started in the right direction.

Originally Posted by Chado2423

All I ever wanted to do was be a better friend to my ex-gf. But that just doesn't seem realistic. When I went to go apologize she turned my apology down. I was hurt, and my night-terrors have increased, and I haven't been able to eat, sleep, for well over two years. I'm having such a hard time letting her go. I know she's happier without me, but I'm so miserable without her. I wish I knew how to overcome this.

New Thought:
"This sucks and I hate it. But feeling down and miserable is only hurting me and doing no one any good. If I am going to change the way I feel about this situation, its up to me. I must put effort in the right direction. Whats the first step I can take towards the resolution that I want? How can I slowly but surely change my feelings about it? Is improving my self-esteem the answer in this situation? hmmm How do I do that?"

Thanks for the hug. This is what I keep hearing, but what does it mean, and why have I held on to my hurt for so long?

NT:
"I know I have hurt for a long time with this issue. Now I want to find ways to let go off it. I want to create life anew. What are the little ways that I can make this possible?"

This is from your original post:

I'm going nowhere in life... I'm moving like a zombie... I'm just a sad depressed loser, who seems incapable of growing up and making his own choices. I used to be different, but I don't know how to go back to that. I used to make a lot of choices that positively impacted both my life and the lives of others, but lately I've failed in that endevour.

New Thoughts:
"This place in my life seems un-like me. It clearly stinks. I feel like ****. But on some level I've created it... and I know that bit by bit I can rebuild it back. There are surely people out there in the world who were once feeling like this and turned their life around. With effort and maybe even significant time... I can get back to my old self. Time is going to pass anyway, I might as well change myself and my life"

Can you feel the difference in the thoughts? Your subconscious can't accept thoughts that are too far out. My suggestion is to be really really really aware of what you're thinking and change it. Work on improving your self-esteem. Read PD articles everyday. Continuously bombard your life with new actions, thoughts, beliefs, feelings, people, places. For this you must remain very aware.

[nick pagan]

Tom,

I want to apologize to you. I was inflamed by what you said (actually not what you said but the way you said it) and ended up responding in what I now consider an inflammatory, derogatory and offensive way. I normally don't behave that way. I am sorry. I promise that if I ever make a comment again and someone takes strong umbrage with it that I will not write a response until I am sure that I can do so dispassionately and without causing offense.

On that basis, I also apologize to anyone else who may have taken offense at the manner in which I explained myself.

ALG,

Thanks for your very considered responses. You are quite right that I have a narrow definition of competence/confidence. That's just part of my own method of coming to an understanding of things. I find that the more precisely I define a term the easier it becomes to understand it and work with it. I'm something of a follower of the ideas of General Semantics and an underlying tenant is that the more accurate our descriptions of reality are, the more sane we become. Of course, if people don't have the same interpretation of a word, or phrase, or experience as me then miscommunication is bound to occur from time to time as happened in this thread.

Chado,

Perhaps at the end of all this I would say that fake it until you make it can work for small incremental steps where it's almost in your grasp and you don't attempt to overreach yourself, i.e. a little boldness from time to time can overcome reticence to do something that you have a very high probability of achieving, if only you'd have a go at it. I'd never recommend it as a policy for taking huge bold steps because the chances are so high of falling flat on your face when attempting to do something that you have little ability or experience to do. From your earlier response you know that anyway

z1freeride,

Thanks for your testimonial!

[Peleke4]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I know your problem. You got dumped by your girlfriend and you went into pieces.

While that is a very understandable reaction, it is NOT the only possible reaction. Millions of mens have been dumped by their wives / girlfriends in the history of mankind, and the reactions come in a wide variety.

Some think, "Oh, this is so sad that I'll kill myself" and they do.
Some immediately plot to stalk their girlfriend and scratch her car.
Some say, "Good riddance to bad rubbish" and move on.
Some say, "That bitch" and fume in anger for the next three years of their lives.
Some grieve and cry for a month, or two months, and then get on with life.
Some suddenly decide that they prefer to have sex with men instead.
Some grieve and cry, until the next new pretty skirt comes along, then they excitedly chase after the next new pretty skirt.
Some become priests.
Some resolve to swear off serious relationships, and pursue one-night stands instead.
Some philosophically say, "Well, it's sad that our love didn't last, but better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved at all."

Etc etc.

And most of these millions of men have never heard of "acting as if". Yet they have all chosen their own specific reactions, although there isn't necessarily a lot of consciousness in that choice.

Now, what is the "act as if" principle really all about? It is really about the ability or capacity to choose your own mental attitude. Stephen Covey doesn't refer to it as "act as if". Instead he uses the stimulus-response explanation.

His explanation goes like this. If you shine a light at an earthworm, it curls up and tries to escape. The light is the stimulus. The attempt to escape is the response. An earthworm, exposed to this kind of stimulus, will always respond in this way.

But human beings are not earthworms. For us, between the stimulus and the response, there is a gap. This is the gap which we can work on and expand. This is the gap which allows us to choose our response.

This is the underlying principle of the "act as if" approach. You are in a certain situation, X. Your automatic reaction is to respond in a certain way, to act in a certain way, Y.

But there is an ability in you to choose your own response. You can choose to act in other ways. That is, you can "act as if ___[insert desired mode of behaviour".

Obviously there are limits as to "act as if". For example, if you are really an utter snivelling coward, you may not be able to act as if you were a great big hero. However, you could probably succeed in acting as less of an utter snivelling coward.

There is a very key point I want to emphasise here.

Every day, people are already behaving according to their own preprogrammed scripts. They are already acting. They are acting according to their unconscious patterns, created by their past conditioning, behaviour, experiences etc, tracing back to the day they were born.

The question is whether you're content to accept the scripts which you've mindlessly, unconsciously or subconsciously picked up through the years. Or whether you want to consciously choose the best scripts for yourself, that you can.

Even personality is a script.

The idea of "act as if" sounded hokey-pokey to me at first. But after experimenting with it, I found that it really does work! I really like how ALG explains it.

I had more confidence in "act as if" after reading "The Power of Now." As ALG explains, " Every day, people are already behaving according to their own preprogrammed scripts. They are already acting. They are acting according to their unconscious patterns, created by their past conditioning, behaviour, experiences etc, tracing back to the day they were born." I found that if you disregard negative experiences from the past and stay present-oriented, while at the same time setting your mind to a new direction (having a clear intent), you're bound to reach your intent. That's because you're present-oriented and you set your mind to a new direction; rather than being focused on past negative experiences, having your mind set to that direction, and thus having that negative mind-set loop.

Christopher Columbus is a good example of "act as if." In the book "48 Laws of Power," it says that Columbus wasn't that sharp and came from a low-class background. Despite that, he was able to hang around the high-class/royal crowd and even influenced them to vouch for his voyages. "Columbus had an amazing power to charm nobility, and it all came from the way he carried himself. He projected a sense of confidence that was completely out of proportion to his means... in fact, it was the same confidence usually shown by the nobility themselves... for he carried himself just the way they did..."

The book suggest that "you can just as easily present the Columbus front: buoyancy, confidence, and the feeling that you were born to wear a crown." In other words, "act as if."

[Tim Brownson]

Nick,

No worries and thanks for offering an apology although it honestly wasn't necessary. The only thing I'm offended by is your insistence on calling me Tom!

I'm kidding. Seriously I don't take any of this personally, it's only opinions. Post on.

[dendennz]

Hey Chado...

Seeing as we're on Steve Pavlina's forum, and he's one for trying something for 30 days - how about trying something different for 30 days?

- smile at 3 people a day for 30 days.
- spend more time outside, getting some sunlight (can't remember where you're from so it might not be sunny enough there yet... it's as hot as here at the moment but it's our summer )
- you choose that every time you think about your ex girlfriend you agree to gently push that thought out of your head
- go to the library and read more PD books
- think about the good things you do have; yourself, you're literate, articulate, you have your health, maybe you have great hair and good eyes (pathetic but it gets me everytime 'coz I have GREAT hair lol... even when I feel like CRAP)
- Thank Steve and Erin for providing somewhere for you to air your worries and concerns and celebrate that fact!
- think about all the very selfish things you could do JUST FOR YOU - day dream, win lotto in your dreams, what would you do for JUST YOU and no one else?

I have spent 30 days:

1. Growing my nails - stopped tearing them off!
2. Brushing my teeth AT NIGHT - I never did it... just wasn't how I was brought up and I hate having my teeth professionally cleaned
3. Eating healthier foods - and I've lost a wee bit of weight!

I had to really push myself (FAKE LIKING IT!) to do these things.

At the end of the 30 days assess whether it helped or not. If not, try something different! I find the 30 day trick quite useful.

All the best

Cheers,

Jenny.

[moonrambler]

I wanted to mention something about "act as if," in at least one situation where it really helped me, is reading a book in high school called "Shy? You Don't Have To Be!" I'm naturally introverted, and in high school I was really shy and non-self-confident about making new friends, and particularly that I would ever be able to get a boyfriend. I learned I had to "act as if" if I wanted to have the personality I wanted, attract the kind of guys I was interested in, make more friends, and so on. A lot of this stuff, I was scared like crazy to even talk to boys, or girls I didn't really know, but I just did it. I had to endure rejection sometimes, but I still just did it. I developed the personality I wanted to have by acting as if.

I'm still fairly shy and nervous in a lot of social situations, but I bet hardly anybody knows that. I just barge right in and act as if.

[Marco Polo]

@Chado - THere's a lot of good advice in this thread, so I hope you've started to implement some of it. Good luck with all this.


@Nick Pagan - Overall, I actually think you've got it right, and hence your apology was probably unecessary. Fair enough, your definition of confidence is quite narrow, but one should remember that words are not static. Definitions are (and should be) malleable.

By adopting an objective mindset and focusing on increasing competence -- as opposed to creating delusional beliefs -- we are laying the groundwork for a sound intellectual development. At the emotional level, what people often refer to as confidence I would indeed describe as "courage in the face of uncertainty". And in the long term, I think the feeling of confidence is more a by-product of competence than a goal worth pursuing in and of itself.

Of course, we're just playing semantics games here, but if I had to chose a definition it would probably be something close to yours (with some minor tweaks perhaps). Great blog by the way.

[Keith]

re: "Act as if", IMO the "as if" is to get your brain over the mental hurdle that it doesn't believe it yet. The key word in the sentence is act ie. take action.

"Act as if you're happy" doesn't mean "plaster a big fake smile on your face as you sit in your room and mope" - it means "take the actions that a happy person does" eg. go out with a bunch of friends to see a movie.

It's a great big cycle - if you're unhappy you do unhappy things which reinforces the unhappy. By doing something else, you break that cycle.

[bellemeadows]

When I read through your posts, I realized that your heart is broken. Thle loss of your girlfriend made you feel your feelings anew, but people who respond as you have to such a loss, are generally people who were abandoned by someone essential as a child.

Your girlfriend was a proxy for that person or persons in this case -- probably a parent. Your love for her, is like your love for that parent -- who abandoned you in some way. The reason you are having trouble moving on is that when you believe someone is as essential as a parent, and you lose them, you lose yourself. . . again.

This happened to me not so very long ago. What helped me was a multi-pronged approach involving

1) Forgiveness - Gary Renard's Disappearance of the Universe and ACIM helped me and still help me every day. You need to work on forgiving this person, and releasing her to her good. It will help you also to forgive yourself. I would suggest that you are blaming yourself and feeling unloveable because you came to believe some things yourself in your youth that are not true. It isn't true that you are unloveable and abandonable, but it probably feels true to you because of your past.

2) The acknowledgement that the love is real. Your love for this person is real love. Now that she has rejected you, you need to move on. I couldn't stop loving, so I let myself show my love by giving that person up, as requested. Entirely -- gave him up. I suggest humbly that you need to give her up entirely, as I did. Because she asked you to, and because you love her. When you love someone you give to them what they ask, and wish for the best for them. In this case it is critical that you give her up entirely. Forever. And find yourself.

3) The concept that this world is a dream, and not reality. (Gary Renard again, and ACIM). I found that in my mind, if this world were real, and my ego was real, it was too very painful. As a person, buffeted by rejection, betrayal, abandonment, death, loss, all of those other experiences which humans have when times are not so good -- it was too much for me. But as a dream world, with something real, a nondual reality for all of us, behind it, I can experience that the love is real, and only the love.

4) Drugs and other support helped. When I couldn't sleep, I took valium -- at night -- over a two month period. I went on antidepressants. I started seeing a counselor, someone I really trusted.

5) PTSD support. I was diagnosed with PTSD -- and PTSD doesn't respond to 'thinking' cures, because it is about an imbalance in the limbic portion of the brain, which DOES NOT hear your words or respond to them. Approaches which helped with the PTSD included learning I had it, and treating it with the tenderness and care needed. EMDR helped -- and you can do it on yourself (there is a do it yourself EMDR book you can buy from Amazon and I recommend it). Drugs and cognitive therapy don't seem to reach the PTSD, except to help with the symptoms -- you need to address the underlying PTSD itself. I have a friend who has been through trauma, who didn't have the $$ for therapy -- the EMDR worked wonders for her -- changed her life. It has helped me as well. . . .

No one has all the answers -- and I could be wildly off track he here -- if so please forgive me. It just seemed that as I read your posts, I might be able to help.

Bottom line, it is not PC to speak of broken hearts these days -- but your's sounds like it is in pain. IMHO, acting as if it is not in pain may not help one bit, it may even make it worse.

I hope this helps -- it is personal and hard to posts these things for me, but if it helps, that would be good.

Blessings from Belle

[z1freeride]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I'm a dad. I absolutely love little kids around 9 to 14 months old. That's the age when they start learning to stand and walk and toddle around.

They fall, and hurt themselves, and cry, so many times that it's amazing that they keep trying anyway. They never give up. Their confidence is astounding. And eventually it pays off - the confidence leads to competence.

Recently I decided to teach myself how to unicycle. I had no confidence that I could unicycle across the parking lot. On the other hand, I did have confidence (belief) in that I didn't care what people think as I crashed many times.

Instead of focusing on a belief like "I am confident that I can unicycle!" I thought, "Today's goal is to learn to sit on the unicycle." I simply worked on the process not worrying whether I could unicycle or not. Having the belief and expectation that "I can unicycle across the parking lot" would have lead to a lot of initial frustration (because of unfulfilled desires). This negative emotion could have led to abandonment of the goal.

I can now ride across the parking lot not because of my ambition, confidence or belief that I could - instead this is what I did:

1. Held the theory - riding a unicycle would be awesome. If I can do it, great! If not, no big deal. I'll keep practicing.
2. Set incredibly, easy goals to achieve.
3. Focus on the process and not the end result. Holding on to unrealistic beliefs and not achieving them will lead to negative emotion. Negative emotions lead to procrastination - and usually abandonment of goals.

My competence of riding across the parking lot lead to my confidence in riding across the parking lot.

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by bellemeadows

When I read through your posts, I realized that your heart is broken. Thle loss of your girlfriend made you feel your feelings anew, but people who respond as you have to such a loss, are generally people who were abandoned by someone essential as a child.

Your girlfriend was a proxy for that person or persons in this case -- probably a parent. Your love for her, is like your love for that parent -- who abandoned you in some way. The reason you are having trouble moving on is that when you believe someone is as essential as a parent, and you lose them, you lose yourself. . . again.

This happened to me not so very long ago. What helped me was a multi-pronged approach involving

1) Forgiveness - Gary Renard's Disappearance of the Universe and ACIM helped me and still help me every day. You need to work on forgiving this person, and releasing her to her good. It will help you also to forgive yourself. I would suggest that you are blaming yourself and feeling unloveable because you came to believe some things yourself in your youth that are not true. It isn't true that you are unloveable and abandonable, but it probably feels true to you because of your past.

2) The acknowledgement that the love is real. Your love for this person is real love. Now that she has rejected you, you need to move on. I couldn't stop loving, so I let myself show my love by giving that person up, as requested. Entirely -- gave him up. I suggest humbly that you need to give her up entirely, as I did. Because she asked you to, and because you love her. When you love someone you give to them what they ask, and wish for the best for them. In this case it is critical that you give her up entirely. Forever. And find yourself.

3) The concept that this world is a dream, and not reality. (Gary Renard again, and ACIM). I found that in my mind, if this world were real, and my ego was real, it was too very painful. As a person, buffeted by rejection, betrayal, abandonment, death, loss, all of those other experiences which humans have when times are not so good -- it was too much for me. But as a dream world, with something real, a nondual reality for all of us, behind it, I can experience that the love is real, and only the love.

4) Drugs and other support helped. When I couldn't sleep, I took valium -- at night -- over a two month period. I went on antidepressants. I started seeing a counselor, someone I really trusted.

5) PTSD support. I was diagnosed with PTSD -- and PTSD doesn't respond to 'thinking' cures, because it is about an imbalance in the limbic portion of the brain, which DOES NOT hear your words or respond to them. Approaches which helped with the PTSD included learning I had it, and treating it with the tenderness and care needed. EMDR helped -- and you can do it on yourself (there is a do it yourself EMDR book you can buy from Amazon and I recommend it). Drugs and cognitive therapy don't seem to reach the PTSD, except to help with the symptoms -- you need to address the underlying PTSD itself. I have a friend who has been through trauma, who didn't have the $$ for therapy -- the EMDR worked wonders for her -- changed her life. It has helped me as well. . . .

No one has all the answers -- and I could be wildly off track he here -- if so please forgive me. It just seemed that as I read your posts, I might be able to help.

Bottom line, it is not PC to speak of broken hearts these days -- but your's sounds like it is in pain. IMHO, acting as if it is not in pain may not help one bit, it may even make it worse.

I hope this helps -- it is personal and hard to posts these things for me, but if it helps, that would be good.

Blessings from Belle

How can I forgive without mending the relationship on some level... if there is no mending of the relationship it isn't real forgiveness is it? If I give up on her as you suggest, is that really love?

You may be right that I need to find myself, but I found myself when I was with her... but now that she has left me I have lost myself.

Yes, I was hurt by both my parents.

Drugs did not work for me, they only made my anxiety and depressive episodes worse. My counselor was a joke. Besides I can't even afford therapy or counseling.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

How can I forgive without mending the relationship on some level... if there is no mending of the relationship it isn't real forgiveness is it? If I give up on her as you suggest, is that really love?

Forgiveness needs no conditions or permissions. Forgiveness is a decision and when I forgive it is I who make the decision and it is I who work on the process of forgiveness within.

The person, place, thing or situation on which I have decided to bestow forgiveness never need know of my forgiveness for my act of forgiveness to be real and true.

Sometimes it is better to anonymously forgive. I think this is true when there is no ability to effectively communicate with the other parties and when saying something would be perceived as a form of manipulation with an agenda besides letting go of the situation.

Forgiveness equals love. Forgiving others is a way of expressing love for the other and a way of expressing true genuine love for myself as well. I often must forgive myself in order to be able to feel forgiveness towards others.

This works in my life. I have experienced adversity in my life and this is one of the tools I have used to live a life of choice and trudge the trail of happy destiny.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by z1freeride

I can now ride across the parking lot not because of my ambition, confidence or belief that I could - instead this is what I did

I hope you understand that I did not disagree with the proposition that competence can build confidence. I merely sought to point out that the relationship is not that absolute or one-way. For example, confidence can also help to build competence; competence can be choked by a lack of confidence etc.

And as I have mentioned, the 'act as if' principle is a much broader idea than a simple discussion of competenc/confidence.

For example, perhaps your original thinking is that "I am a person who does not know how to unicycle across the parking lot" and you had a lot of resistance towards trying. Then what you could have done is act as if you were a person who is willing to learn and is not afraid of crashing a few times in front of other people.

[bellemeadows]

This is going to sound very esoteric; for that I'm sorry. What helped me most in forgiveness was to find the place where we are all one. In that place, your girlfriend and you, your parents and you, God and you, are one. There is nothing lacking in that oneness; and you have not lost anything or anyone.

In a way it was a blessing that someone I loved so very deeply left me. Because I had to find the completion of myself elsewhere. She cannot complete you, and that drive for you to find completion in the relationship is probably what drove her away. That was the story in my case. Had I been whole and complete, my true love would be with me in form today, instead of gone from my human experience.

While my human life will always be without this love, I have found more love in my heart than I ever experienced with my lover. When I was in relationship, I was afraid all of the time. Afraid of not being good enough; afraid of being left and abandoned. So what happened, I was not good enough, and I was left and abandoned.

I had to lose that relationship to find a new a deeper relationship with myself, with my love. The love is real, and it is eternal.

Gary Renard's The Disappearance of the Universe and ACIM helped me tremendously. As for the drugs, well, when I was terrified, and waking up in a cold sweat, and hardly sleeping, I needed to get out of that mind rerun of anxious, fearful thinking. It took a couple of months of one valium each night to get me sleeping again. It took a total commitment to begin showing up in my life differently; to act as if I were whole and complete, and not needy, as had I felt for such a long time.

I am so thankful for this experience. More and more, I find that I am complete within myself, and the rest of it is as Eckert Tolle would say, just the pain body kicking in. His books are helpful as well; especially this last one, which speaks of the pain body, and how to be present with it until it passes, and stops thinking such negative thoughts through your mind.

I cannot say it is an easy lesson to learn; it was very difficult for me. Yet the pain for me was a wake-up call which I could not ignore. I spoke to my sister recently; we experienced terrible trauma in our youth. I said to her, you know for the first time in decades, I feel like myself! She said that it seemed to her that for the first time in decades I am showing up like myself. Not that I was ever not here; but there was a part of me, I am convinced, that has been in a disassociative state for a long time. This experience brought that part of me into my concious awareness, and made me deal with it; find a new sense of me.

To meet me, you would not know about these struggles. I have a professional career, and work with many wonderful people. I must say, that as my heart has come open, I find myself soooo much more compassionate; not so focused on being smart and right (I am very smart, and often right), but more on showing up in my life with compassion and support for those around me. It has softened me, it has made me feel more whole.

Forgiveness is possible, but it isn't easy at all. I work on forgiveness every day. I work on being in this moment, where no one can hurt me unless I choose to feel hurt, and where life can truly be found and enjoyed. Life is not found in the past; but when you are caught up in the hurts of the past, you are not capable of being fully present in the here and now to life, to love, to joy, to yourself. It is in the here and now that you will find forgiveness if you look for it and work at it. It is in there here and now that you will find your heart.

All my blessings, Belle

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

How can I forgive without mending the relationship on some level... if there is no mending of the relationship it isn't real forgiveness is it? If I give up on her as you suggest, is that really love?

You may be right that I need to find myself, but I found myself when I was with her... but now that she has left me I have lost myself.

I think you're confusing forgiveness with healing the relationship. You can forgive anyone for anything without the other party's involvement. On the other hand, a relationship requires the assent of two people, and clearly, your ex g-f doesn't assent. So that's something you have to respect. There's no healing a relationship that's dead.

You did not actually "find yourself" when you were with her; you found that some aspect of the relationship enabled you to feel somewhat better about yourself. It's a common misconception that one "finds" oneself in a relationship. The truth is, it can be rather tricky not to lose yourself in a relationship. You had better find yourself FIRST.

No relationship is healthy if the relationship itself is necessary for you to feel whole. I don't know the reason your g-f gave for pulling the plug but I wouldn't be surprised if, whether she actually came out and said it or not, she felt smothered by your desperate neediness and instinctively knew that she didn't want to carry that responsibility.

You have to come to an intimate relationship with something other than your own brokenness and need. You have to have something of your own to contribute to the other person. It's a two-way street. And what you contribute has to be meaningful and valuable to them, not to you.

In addition, love demands that you have to be willing to risk the relationship itself if necessary to maintain the honesty and integrity of the relationship. For example if your g-f had started some behavior that is destructive to herself, to you, or to the relationship, you have to have an honest discussion about that, even if her initial response is to pitch a snit about it. How can you do that if you're terrified of losing her? You'll back off and put up with all sorts of unacceptable cr_p, and by not holding her accountable in the relationship, the relationship could die anyway, or perhaps worse, become an empty husk.

Consider whether you have an illusion (a belief that something is so because you want it to be, rather than because it empirically is) that an intimate relationship will complete you, or save you. I submit to you that a relationship has the potential to enhance you, if you chose your partner wisely and put the right kinds of effort into the relationship. In order to do that you need to educate yourself about yourself, your needs, the kind of person you need in your life and the things you have to do to prepare yourself to enhance that other person's life in kind.

It doesn't just happen, and even then, it's not absolutely guaranteed, if for no other reason than that sometimes, sh_t just happens. People get sick, or die, or grow in different directions than you, or reveal a dark side deep into a relationship that they are pretty good at concealing. Relationships are a messy and uncertain business because they involve people. If you saddle the relationship with the additional burden of solving all your pre-existing personal problems, you're just about guaranteeing failure.

I'm not saying you have to be some kind of saint, or perfect -- just that you must have your own sh_t together sufficiently not to drag the other person down. If you don't have it together, you're not a bad person, you just need to take care of that first. We all have to. The problem is that sometimes we wish that a relationship would just make it all better, like magic. It doesn't work that way. We have to work on ourselves first.

--Bob

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by SonoranBob

I think you're confusing forgiveness with healing the relationship. You can forgive anyone for anything without the other party's involvement. On the other hand, a relationship requires the assent of two people, and clearly, your ex g-f doesn't assent. So that's something you have to respect. There's no healing a relationship that's dead.

You did not actually "find yourself" when you were with her; you found that some aspect of the relationship enabled you to feel somewhat better about yourself. It's a common misconception that one "finds" oneself in a relationship. The truth is, it can be rather tricky not to lose yourself in a relationship. You had better find yourself FIRST.

No relationship is healthy if the relationship itself is necessary for you to feel whole. I don't know the reason your g-f gave for pulling the plug but I wouldn't be surprised if, whether she actually came out and said it or not, she felt smothered by your desperate neediness and instinctively knew that she didn't want to carry that responsibility.

You have to come to an intimate relationship with something other than your own brokenness and need. You have to have something of your own to contribute to the other person. It's a two-way street. And what you contribute has to be meaningful and valuable to them, not to you.

In addition, love demands that you have to be willing to risk the relationship itself if necessary to maintain the honesty and integrity of the relationship. For example if your g-f had started some behavior that is destructive to herself, to you, or to the relationship, you have to have an honest discussion about that, even if her initial response is to pitch a snit about it. How can you do that if you're terrified of losing her? You'll back off and put up with all sorts of unacceptable cr_p, and by not holding her accountable in the relationship, the relationship could die anyway, or perhaps worse, become an empty husk.

Consider whether you have an illusion (a belief that something is so because you want it to be, rather than because it empirically is) that an intimate relationship will complete you, or save you. I submit to you that a relationship has the potential to enhance you, if you chose your partner wisely and put the right kinds of effort into the relationship. In order to do that you need to educate yourself about yourself, your needs, the kind of person you need in your life and the things you have to do to prepare yourself to enhance that other person's life in kind.

It doesn't just happen, and even then, it's not absolutely guaranteed, if for no other reason than that sometimes, sh_t just happens. People get sick, or die, or grow in different directions than you, or reveal a dark side deep into a relationship that they are pretty good at concealing. Relationships are a messy and uncertain business because they involve people. If you saddle the relationship with the additional burden of solving all your pre-existing personal problems, you're just about guaranteeing failure.

I'm not saying you have to be some kind of saint, or perfect -- just that you must have your own sh_t together sufficiently not to drag the other person down. If you don't have it together, you're not a bad person, you just need to take care of that first. We all have to. The problem is that sometimes we wish that a relationship would just make it all better, like magic. It doesn't work that way. We have to work on ourselves first.

--Bob

I just miss her so much. And wish I was able to work things out with her. But more than missing her, I'm sick of missing her. It eats me up inside that I'm not over this. I would have thought I would have been over this by now. It pains me that I still love her and still miss her. If I could just take all this guilt, depression, and misery away today I'd do it in a heartbeat. But not only that I feel bad for hurting her so deeply that she wouldn't want to forgive me. When you hurt someone beyond their capability to forgive you (that hurts more.)

[z1freeride]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I hope you understand that I did not disagree with the proposition that competence can build confidence. I merely sought to point out that the relationship is not that absolute or one-way. For example, confidence can also help to build competence; competence can be choked by a lack of confidence etc.

And as I have mentioned, the 'act as if' principle is a much broader idea than a simple discussion of competenc/confidence.

For example, perhaps your original thinking is that "I am a person who does not know how to unicycle across the parking lot" and you had a lot of resistance towards trying. Then what you could have done is act as if you were a person who is willing to learn and is not afraid of crashing a few times in front of other people.

Ok, I understand. (1st paragraph)

(3rd paragraph)... I didn't resist trying at all because my goals were so easy. I released the need to not look dumb in front of other people.

As far as acting as if.... why act when you can be? For example, instead of acting like your happy, you could be grateful for your blessings. DO things that create the positive emotion of happiness (or cheerfulness).

edit: this isn't directed to you Chado. After I read your post, your situation has more factors ... I was just making a more general statement.

[Hoamaru]

Originally Posted by z1freeride

Ok, I understand. (1st paragraph)

(3rd paragraph)... I didn't resist trying at all because my goals were so easy. I released the need to not look dumb in front of other people.

As far as acting as if.... why act when you can be? For example, instead of acting like your happy, you could be grateful for your blessings. DO things that create the positive emotion of happiness (or cheerfulness).

edit: this isn't directed to you Chado. After I read your post, your situation has more factors ... I was just making a more general statement.

What if you take the word act as the meaning brought up in Keith's post?

It's not acting as if to be another person it is acting like to take action. Maybe it's better to write it like: Act...as if you were blah blah.

This implies to take action. Just like you say "DO things that create the positive emotion of happiness (or cheerfulness)".

Taking your example again, if you act like you are happy what would you be focusing on? Your focus would be on the things you would be happy about, like being "grateful for your blessings". Of coarse a happy person wouldn't be thinking about things that wouldn't make them happy like his breakup.

I hope this made some type of sense, because it was sure hard to write :P. What I'm basically trying to say is that IMO it seems both of your ideas are, in a way, very similar.