Self Discipline isn't what people think it is

[Jake Danger]

Productive people (people who consistently produce things of true value) aren’t productive because they’re “disciplined” in the modern sense of that word – at least not in the sense of being skilled at kicking their own butts to force themselves to do something they really don’t want to do. They’re disciplined in the older sense of that word, back when people remembered that it had some connection with the word “disciple”. Productive people are productive because they love whatever they do as much as St. Peter loved Jesus. They do it whenever they darn well please, thank you, which tends to be quite often - since they love what they do, they don’t have to force themselves to do it.

[demk]

I agree,

When you get it right your motivation becomes effortless and flows. This comes from being congruent internally. I personally don't believe in hard work and know that anybody does anything that needs prolonged dedication because they enjoyed doing it to a large extent. That is probably the main motivating factor for most people - the intrinsic enjoyment value of the task.

This myth that pervades society that work should be hard is probably spread and perpetuated by successful people who want to feed their egos and seem as if they are better because they made it by going through a load of stress and strain. They say that they worked hard but in fact it came effortlessly and it was an enjoyable experience as all motivated activety usually is whether you are motivated to create something or watch TV. This myth is generally damaging to society because it means that people think that you have to sacrifice so much to become successful and put yourself through things you dont enjoy. People subsequently get put off and dont follow their dreams because the goals they set themself involve doing lots of stuff that they dont like. Some people actually even struggle through and become successful with this method. It goes against the truth which is that when you are aligned internally you can create effortlessly and experience abundance etc.

When a successful person says they worked hard they mean they did a lot of work. It doesnt mean they didnt enjoy the vast majority of the experience.

Demk

[eduard]

I agree that if your work get so pleasant for you, you don’t need self discipline but that is not happening in our real world .It is impossible to always find pleasure in what you have to do and many times there are more tempting things to do which can distract you from your job, so self discipline is the most important thing to have.

[Trustme]

I think Eduard is right.

For me self discipline is to negotiate a deal with myself after careful evaulation and stick to this contract when the battle is on. Like setting the alarm clock in the evening to 5 am and not re-negotiating it in the morning.

Self discipline is something that definately can be enhanced with certain strategies and tools, it's not necessarily something you are born with in my opinion.

Volkmar

[demk]

Originally Posted by eduard

.It is impossible to always find pleasure in what you have to do and many times there are more tempting things to do which can distract you from your job, so self discipline is the most important thing to have.

I find that when you are really motivated to do something the task takes on a new feel to it. For intance, I dont particularly like designing websites because HTML makes my brain hurt and I prefer working on other things but when I made my own site I enjoyed the process because i was wrapped up in the enthusiasm of starting my own business. If the website was for a purpose I wasnt really into it would have been much less enjoyable. Even really boring tasks can flow well and be enjoyed to an extent when they are part of an overall purpose. The moving forward with the task is why you enjoy the process and why it is effortless, not neccessarily the task itself, although you have to intrinsically enjoy most of what you do.

When you really hate what you do its time for a change of proffession. My opinion is that you have to enjoy what you do or you arnt going to want to do it for its own sake.

Demk

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by eduard

I agree that if your work get so pleasant for you, you don’t need self discipline but that is not happening in our real world .It is impossible to always find pleasure in what you have to do and many times there are more tempting things to do which can distract you from your job, so self discipline is the most important thing to have.

I disagree. If you don't like to do it, delegate it. If you're self employed, and you hate to market, you can hire someone to market. If you're in a job where you do things you don't like, you can get a new job. I think having fun & helping people are the number one & two priorities when it comes to business & life & everything else.

[eduard]

The hard part is that no matter of what qualities or talent of a human being are you speaking of there are 2 components :
1.the part that you are born with ( the hereditary one). It is like a pot that will be fill whit a content earned through practice, hard work (like the muscles earned by a body builder). So the bigger your pot is the more content you can stuff in there.
Ex: Angelina’s and Brad Pitt’s child will have a big pot to fill but without work it will not get far (as value because money will not be an issue )
2.the content that you will stuff in the pot (requires training that requires self discipline and willpower)
Don’t worry about your pot . 90% of people don’t even try to fill it, 9% try to little (like just half the way) and maybe 0.1% can fulfill their potential in their life time.
Of course there are also methods of personal development , knowledge, skills, advices but that WILL NOT help you very much .You will just lose time.
REMEMBER:a)you can’t do anything about your genes
b)methods and words will not help you
c)the only way is training and hard work which is PAIN and you will not manage without willpower and SELF DISCIPLINE.

[demk]

Dave is right,

you need to enjoy what you do and provide value to people (and helping others is one of the most enoyable things to do).

The point is that you arre intrinsically motivated to do thinsg you enjoy or work for a purpose you believe in. Making yourself sweat and strain doesnt get you anywhere although society likes you to think thats the way. imho any time you feel negative there is somethingw rong with what you are doing so hard or unenjoyable work is not the way.

Studies have actually shown that beliefs can turn genes on and off btw. You might be supirsed how little the physical limits of form actually are.

[eduard]

You say that you feel good because of your purpose (your web site) but that feeling will not last much. Is just for the moment. If you work enough it will fade away. Every feeling is based on: 1,how much pleasure is in this
2.how much time I have to spend on this, how hard it is, and what is the probability to actually happen the event (the purpose)

This is the main problem whit purposes : more far are in the future
Harder is the path
Fewer chances to accomplish

result =the feeling get smaller

[eduard]

for ex i enjoy watching movies. If i would do just what i like i would probably starve to death.

[demk]

I think we are actually in agreement here that people need to enjoy the actual act of doing the task in question. It is true that far future goals can mean you lose interest easily which is why you need to be motivated by what you do.

Demk

[Hilary]

Hello everyone... probably I should post an introduction but this thread is so close to what I've been thinking about lately that I think I'll just dive in.

I know exactly what Eduard means and I can identify with his sig - though no way would I dream of using it! I could sleep, watch TV and read crummy novels all day - and yet I do have a powerful sense of my purpose in life (which doesn't involve self-administered anaesthesia with pap...).

Steve and Erin have both written/talked about how they jump out of bed in the small hours of the morning because their purpose is so strong they can't wait to get to work. But I think there must be more to it, because if that were all it took, I'd be doing the same. I'm not (yet).

Self-discipline as in pain and kicking myself don't work for long, either. And honestly, Eduard - again looking at your sig, doesn't that indicate that the being-your-own-slavedriver approach isn't working for you, either?

I have a couple of suggestions - one straightforward, one coming at this from a different angle.

One - some kind of daily practice of remembering your long-term goals and making the connection with what you're choosing to do that day. (Not 'what you have to do' - have to? says who? 'Have to' never helped me get anything done, and I'm trying to ban it.) Simpleology 101 (which is free, straightforward and good) taught me this one.

Two - having a powerful sense of purpose doesn't equate to having self-discipline and getting things done because it doesn't cure depression. It helps, but it's not the whole solution. If you're depressed, you don't enjoy anything except things that help you forget yourself. (Like watching movies, reading pap, playing computer games...) It messes with your memory and imagination, so the usual advice to concentrate on the emotions associated with achieving the goal probably won't get you far, either.

Sometimes it's necessary to find a way to change your emotional state first, before anything else can work.

[Scott H Young]

I think there is some truth to that.

Although I would say that disciplined people are simply those who have been conditioned long enough to realize that putting off immediate pleasure will ultimately be rewarded by a greater one. Passion is important, but sometimes you need a little extra push to get you going.

I think you are right in that long-term discipline is really just passion. Willpower can only last for short bursts, never extended journeys.

[Hilary]

Hi Scott! Very glad to meet you here - I really enjoy your blog.

[Kudoku]

Disciplining my mind is a tough daily job for me. To help myself stay aware I posted this on my wall: “If you don’t like something, change it; if you can’t change it, change the way you look at it.” Mary Engelbreit

How’s that for self-discipline?

[eduard]

i know a good one too:
THE BEST DEFINITION FOR INSANITY: TO DO THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER BUT TO WAIT A DIFFERENT OUTCOME EVERY TIME!

[fawn247]

...is love in action."

The Road Less Travelled by Scott Peck.

That quote summed it up for me better than any other.