better to have loved than...

[wolfgang]

Better to have loved and lost than never at all.

Sometimes I don't get this. Actually I don't. Having a loss brings up memories. But then to remember is also to find grief in facing the future without similar kinds of memories being possible anymore. Then that is sad and a missing and a longing. How does that turn into a good thing? How does remembering make the heart whole again? Is it possible to feel a memory for what it is without projecting the dismal future and to be happy that you loved?

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Sometimes I don't get this. Actually I don't.

Welcome to the club.

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Is it possible to feel a memory for what it is without projecting the dismal future and to be happy that you loved?

Yes, it's possible. No, it's not easy. It takes time and a willingness to forgo "closure," because closure is simply most often a way to get the last word.

[wolfgang]

Yeah closure doesn't really exist, is what I think. It turns into something to live with, maybe. And if the loss is a death - there's no way to get the last word in.

[Old Soul]

I hear you!!!

Funny but that exact thought popped into my head too, Christmas is actually kind of a tough time for me , although having fun with my kids, I still do miss my own parents , and of course Christmas is loaded with my own childhood memories


and those memories come with a smile to me along with a pange of sadness as to my losses of parents,


sigh..... I hear you! I understand your pain :-)

[JimOfferman]

The saying rings very true to me. I miss all the friends and family I have lost along the way, but I would not want to have missed knowing and loving them. Sure, there is the pain of knowing they are gone, but there is also the joy of remembering the good times we had together!

[dancer]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

The saying rings very true to me. I miss all the friends and family I have lost along the way, but I would not want to have missed knowing and loving them. Sure, there is the pain of knowing they are gone, but there is also the joy of remembering the good times we had together!

So true.

This is the first time I've heard this saying associated with death. I always thought it was related to love relationships.

Even though the death of someone you love hurts like hell, having known the person is so much worth that pain. Does the heart become whole again? Not always. Memories do not help in the early stages of grief, but one day you remember something about this person and with the memory comes a warm fuzzy feeling.

As far as love relationships are concerned, I kind of get it. If I had to choose between never ever experiencing love and experiencing love gone sour, I'd choose love gone sour in a heartbeat. I want love to be everlasting, but I've kissed many frogs. Can even admit to being a frog myself.

[Old Soul]

Good balanced view :-)) I need to remember that myself

[ZHereford]

The saying is a quote from Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem In Memoriam

'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

As is quite obvious he is saying that he would rather have experienced the joy of having loved and lose it, than not having experienced it at all.

[5of8]

A major part of self improvement is having the skills to deal with the "negetive" aspects of our emotions and negetive occurances in life. Your avoidance of sadness, grief, or longing only serves to leave them unresolved within yourself. When you can experience and own your emotions they become less powerful as an influence on your life. In the end and I don't mean to be glib, sadness is sad, grief looks like grief. Don't try to make them other than what they are.

[Paul C]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Sometimes I don't get this. Actually I don't. Having a loss brings up memories. But then to remember is also to find grief in facing the future without similar kinds of memories being possible anymore. Then that is sad and a missing and a longing. How does that turn into a good thing? How does remembering make the heart whole again? Is it possible to feel a memory for what it is without projecting the dismal future and to be happy that you loved?

It's important not not brings the past into the future, therefore colouring it with less than desirable memories of the past. Although, I couldn't say I'm speaking from experience when concerning a love relationship with a women, which is yet to happen.

Love is said to be unconditional, so bring that into your new relationship. You loved once before, but it didn't last, it's to be accepted. If or when you love again, you accept what happened in the past and bring your attention into the present to love once again, hopefully in a unconditional manner.

Also, what did you learn during your last relationship that you can use for the better this time around? Did you regret being apart of the former relationship? Do you feel you truly lost 'something'?

[Ilya]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Having a loss brings up memories. But then to remember is also to find grief in facing the future without similar kinds of memories being possible anymore. Then that is sad and a missing and a longing. How does that turn into a good thing? How does remembering make the heart whole again? Is it possible to feel a memory for what it is without projecting the dismal future and to be happy that you loved?

Yes, having a loss brings up memories. But they are not necessary bad memories. Time heals all wounds. Sooner or later the bad things fade and the good things stay. It's when this doesn't happen and the negative memory takes the life of its own, we usually talk about the psychological problem. And all XXth century psychology is about being able to do something about it.
The common consensus among most schools of psychology is that we need to "relive" the traumatic moment to let it go. The ways of how to do it is where the branches of psychology differ.

Creating a bridge to the topic about crying, once we clearly put something in the past, it has no power over us. But if we remember the painful moment ad if it is happening here and now (which it doesn't), it will cause us pain.

The funny thing is that you can take positive stuff and literally make it cover the negative. But that's some mental magic.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by 5of8

A major part of self improvement is having the skills to deal with the "negetive" aspects of our emotions and negetive occurances in life. Your avoidance of sadness, grief, or longing only serves to leave them unresolved within yourself. When you can experience and own your emotions they become less powerful as an influence on your life. In the end and I don't mean to be glib, sadness is sad, grief looks like grief. Don't try to make them other than what they are.

I like this response. It makes sense that experiencing emotions instead of supressing makes the feeling resolve. In the case of this part of Tennyson's poem (thanks ZHereford), there is the idea that it's better to have loved and lost it. I am trying to use that statement to frame some loss. Since it's tempting to think maybe it would be better to not have loved when it can hurt to have a love gone. The way it hurts is with remembering when the love was there now missing. How is that hurt better than if I didn't have love to lose in the first place? Maybe once I process the past love and don't put in in the now (which is sad), it gets framed so that now is not a missing feeling? I think I'm not making sense anymore.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Ilya

Yes, having a loss brings up memories. But they are not necessary bad memories. Time heals all wounds. Sooner or later the bad things fade and the good things stay. It's when this doesn't happen and the negative memory takes the life of its own, we usually talk about the psychological problem. And all XXth century psychology is about being able to do something about it.

Time, ok. And it's better to have loved and lost because you know you can love. But to have ot taken and not here hurts. Is it better to hurt for a love that's gone, then to not have loved? I guess if the hurt feelings resolve or lessen and the love that was can be remember for being a cool thing in the past - then it's better. But first one has to go through those feelings of not having love that felt great in the past.

The common consensus among most schools of psychology is that we need to "relive" the traumatic moment to let it go. The ways of how to do it is where the branches of psychology differ.

Creating a bridge to the topic about crying, once we clearly put something in the past, it has no power over us. But if we remember the painful moment ad if it is happening here and now (which it doesn't), it will cause us pain.

Clearly putting something in the past also is a trigger for sadness. To actually stop denying the love is gone is sad. So maybe to feel the hurt over lost love is also an expression of putting the memory in the past - an acknowledgement of framing the memory.

The funny thing is that you can take positive stuff and literally make it cover the negative. But that's some mental magic.

hmmm... The positive should outshine the negative. The negative is that the positive is no longer here. The positive is in the past but negative only because the positive is gone. It's a positive memory with a negative in the now, since it's gone.

Maybe it's just time that fixes lost love memories along with actually feeling the lost so as to acknowledge that it's a memory only.

[ZHereford]

Wolfgang,

This may be way off, but the greatest songs, works of art and literary pieces have been written by those who have experienced the depth of despair, loss and emptiness. I think experiencing sadness and loss and then overcoming them gives rise to hope and triumph. It makes you stretch and become more than you were.

[Honeywith4bees]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

Wolfgang,
I think experiencing sadness and loss and then overcoming them gives rise to hope and triumph. It makes you stretch and become more than you were.

That's a great way to think of it, as long as you don't become one of those people who become lost in their sadness and defined by their losses. Some people seem to never really let go of "what could of been." I think loss can also give you Faith which I guess is another form of hope.

[Old Soul]

When you can experience and own your emotions they become less powerful as an influence on your life.

How true!!! and it gives you a sense of empowerment over those emotions :-)
instead of them controlling you

[Ilya]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Time, ok. And it's better to have loved and lost because you know you can love. But to have ot taken and not here hurts.

I think that's where we start to disagree. In my reality the love is never gone. I still love each and every person I was ever in love with. We might not date anymore, we might not see each other or talk to each other for years. But the love is still here. So, no pain is necessary for me. The same for death. Some of the people in my life are dead now. However I'm not sad about it. I was for the relatively short period of time. I've mourned. I've accepted their death. But still I have the love for them. It is alive in my heart. And the memories of them are the source of joy for me.

Is it better to hurt for a love that's gone, then to not have loved?

I say yes. It is better to go blind than to never see the sunrise. It is better to become confined to a wheelchair than to never ever run through the morning meadow.

I guess if the hurt feelings resolve or lessen and the love that was can be remember for being a cool thing in the past - then it's better. But first one has to go through those feelings of not having love that felt great in the past.

Yes, it is true, mourning first, warm memories later. But some people are somehow stuck in the mourning stage and let the fact of loss to poison their lives ever after. I don't think it is a healthy approach.

Clearly putting something in the past also is a trigger for sadness. To actually stop denying the love is gone is sad. So maybe to feel the hurt over lost love is also an expression of putting the memory in the past - an acknowledgement of framing the memory.

I think it is, for me such event was always the trigger for sadness, mourning in extreme cases. Otherwise I would be schizophrenic.

hmmm... The positive should outshine the negative. The negative is that the positive is no longer here. The positive is in the past but negative only because the positive is gone. It's a positive memory with a negative in the now, since it's gone.

The fact that something is not in the present is not sad by itself. Otherwise I would have nearly 28 years of sadness under my belt. Present is a pretty small period of time, isn't it? It is a brief moment squeezed between the huge past and the eternal future. And the more we concentrate on the present, the smaller it gets.

But we have a choice how to perceive the events in the past. What to recall and what to forget. I prefer to remember the happy moments, and if there are the negative ones, I try to give them a positive spin. Even if it is just calling such moment a lesson.