Depression

[toasterwater]

I have experienced depression on and off for my whole life. My latest case was last night. I am quite embarrassed about this, but if anyone has advice on battling depression, i would greatly appreciate your help. I would especially appreciate the advice from someone who's been in my shoes. Thanks.

[Trina]

Here is Steve's article about overcoming depression...
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ng-depression/

I can definitely relate, but I haven't quite mastered how to overcome my own depression a lot of the time, so I don't know that I cold actually give you any helpful advice except maybe to look into therapy. I know that talking to someone outside of your situation can sometimes help!

[tgl]

Depression is the denial of feelings. That's my take. I've been battling depression for many, many years. I am operating on the belief that it's possible to get rid of it. I wasn't born with it, so it must be possible to die without it. What I've noticed this depression is that I shut down so I don't have to feel anything, and that's my depression.

When I choose to allow myself to feel something, I don't get depressed, I just feel bad and then it goes away. But as soon as I try to shut that bad feeling up somewhere so I don't have to feel it, I just shut down entirely and can't feel at all. Well, I feel depressed, but I don't feel.

That's the short story.

I'm still working some of this out, but I think the longer story is that I grew up in a dysfunctional hellhole (the kind where Peggy & Al would have called the authorities on my parents), and the survival method I chose was to shut down as many feelings as possible. Looking back, I can see the logic in this. The abuse was too much, and the negative feelings were overwhelming. By shutting off the feelings, I could carry any amount of abuse.

The more you do something, the more you do it automatically. Shutting down/depression at this stage is such an automatic response to any bad feelings I don't even notice when I'm slipping into a depression.

That's where Four Agreements comes in. The author talks about these fear-based agreements we created when we were younger in order to survive and how to break these agreements.

I have to tell you, it's a long process, or it has been for me. And the more you work on it, the better it gets. It does get better. I can promise you that.

[demk]

Originally Posted by tgl

When I choose to allow myself to feel something, I don't get depressed, I just feel bad and then it goes away.

That sums up my attitude to depression. The way i deal with dark moods is by accepting them. There is a great (and very effective) branch of psychology called ACT (Acceptance Commitment Therapy) which is based on the eastern practice of minfulness. It recognises the habitual nature of thought patterns and shows that you can still take postive action. It teaches through metaphors such as this...

Think of your thoughts as chess pieces. You can either ride into battle on the back of a night and fight the unwanted thoughts, or you can realise that you are the chess board and the thoughts are habitual ways of thinking.

My advice is to take a step back and accept your thoughts as they are instead of fighting them. Next time you get depressed accept whatever comes up and DO what is best in that situation whther its get some rest or actually doing something that helps.

Check out the book by Stephen Hayes too, Get out of your mind and into your life. Its very practical.

Demk

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by toasterwater

I have experienced depression on and off for my whole life. My latest case was last night. I am quite embarrassed about this, but if anyone has advice on battling depression, i would greatly appreciate your help. I would especially appreciate the advice from someone who's been in my shoes. Thanks.

Hi Toasterwater, a few years ago I had frequent bouts of insomnia, and a psychologist diagnosed me with Dysthymia (a form of depression)...after 20 mins of talking with me!

I chose not to believe her

Sometimes I wonder though, when life seems gray and I don't seem to be feeling anything, and not like anyone else...but then I realize I don't always feel that way, so something must be right.

My question to you is: how do you best learn?

Yup, that's right. Do you best learn from reading? Watching? Doing something? Talking over it? Or just going it alone?

I knew I had to change my fairly negative outlook on life, and I also knew that I learnt best by emulating people, so I started hanging out with people who seemed more positive, secretly 'spying' on the ways they treated themselves, others, success and challenges and comparing them to my own.

I've had several 'aha' moments since then, realizing what attitudes they held that were different from mine and slowly letting them rub off on me as well.

I hope I've given you at least one practical idea

Originally Posted by demk

Check out the book by Stephen Hayes too, Get out of your mind and into your life. Its very practical.

Stephen Hayes, father of American ninjutsu?

[demk]

HaHa

The master lol

Demk

[skinnyninja]

Depression hurts on the inside, but for me, the solution is almost entirely physical.

I have to move my body, period. Two years ago, I made a commitment with myself to excercise 3 times a week. I started by walking 3 miles. Nowadays, I jog six miles. I do this on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday. There is no option of "skipping" or "missing" a jogging session--I don't even give myself the option. It has to be done. Period. That level of commitment is important to me--otherwise I am sure I would slack off and slip back into my old ways.

I find that the "body buzz" from this aerobic exercise is enough to carry me through until the next session. It makes me feel better, even on the days that I don't jog.

[Hilary]

I've found two things that make a difference, especially with SAD (seasonal affective disorder, aka depression through autumn, winter and a chunk of spring - ugh). One: an anti-SAD lamp. Two: brainwave entrainment. I didn't have any expectations of this, but the effects are impressive. Also, it's easy and doesn't require self-discipline to keep it going, which is important! I'm using NeuroProgrammer2 from Transparent Corporation . They have a 30 day free trial, which is long enough to find out whether this works for you.

Thanks for the link to Steve's article, Trina. I hadn't seen that one before.

[JeffS]

Originally Posted by skinnyninja

Depression hurts on the inside, but for me, the solution is almost entirely physical.

I have to move my body, period. Two years ago, I made a commitment with myself to excercise 3 times a week. I started by walking 3 miles. Nowadays, I jog six miles. I do this on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday. There is no option of "skipping" or "missing" a jogging session--I don't even give myself the option. It has to be done. Period. That level of commitment is important to me--otherwise I am sure I would slack off and slip back into my old ways.

I find that the "body buzz" from this aerobic exercise is enough to carry me through until the next session. It makes me feel better, even on the days that I don't jog.

I'm not as regimented as you are (and I'm impressed by your consistency) but I have found the exact same thing to be true. I play tennis several times a week, and if I go more than one day without playing (or doing something else , like jogging, to compensate), I can feel it, probably more mentally than physically.

Physically, I don't feel quite as healthy--sitting in front of my laptop will do that--but mentally I'm foggier and less motivated and able to tackle various projects. I'd read this dozens of times before the proof came to me first-hand: time spent exercising more than pays you back in time saved by increased efficiency, post-exercise.

[RandomJohn]

To me, depression is a red flag that I'm not moving enough. It's a signpost to other things. The problem with depression is that the manifestation makes it very hard to decide and take action to explore where the depression is coming from. If left for a long time, it just digs a rut that makes it harder and harder to get out.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by RandomJohn

To me, depression is a red flag that I'm not moving enough. It's a signpost to other things. The problem with depression is that the manifestation makes it very hard to decide and take action to explore where the depression is coming from. If left for a long time, it just digs a rut that makes it harder and harder to get out.

There's been a lot of research lately regarding the onset of depression as a functoin of nutritional defitiencies.

In recent years, fish oil has shown as much promise as some of the commercial anti-depressants in relieving symtpoms. Taking a fish oil suppliment has other benefits besides emotional stability, so it's definitely worth considering.

Fish Oil Eases Depression

[raincat]

I have also been in a depressed mood throughout large parts of my
life, and have just recently made some progress with it. It is a bit
hard to tell from you post how severe your depression is, but if you
have felt like this for such a long time I really think you should get
some help. Suicide thoughts or problems getting by in your life would
be clear indications that it is quite severe, and if that is the case
you should really go see a doctor/therapist. If you are really deeply
depressed, just taking this step may seem like an insurmountable task,
but you should put this up as your highest priority goal and make sure
to do it.

First thing you need to do is to make clear to yourself that you do
deserve a better life than this, that you do deserve to be a happy and
live a meaningsful life. The best way for you to serve mankind and
make a contribution is to first free yourself from depression in order
to give yourself the power for contributing to others.

Depression sucks out all your energy, so you must be really
conservative with what little energy you do have and use it to in the
best possible and most economical way to steer yourself out of depression.

Try to minimize your obligations. Go through everything that you feel
you must do, but that you don't really have a desire to do and try to
think rationally about if it is really absolutely necessary for you to
do it. You must learn to say no to people. Helping others can be
good for you since it give you a sense of purpose, but as soon as you
feel that it is draining you, you need to say no.

Steve's blog is a wonderful resource and if you haven't already, I
think it is well worth it to start from the beginning and read a blog
entry or two each morning. They contain alot of good advice on how to
put your life together and are also very motivational, and it is thus
good to read them every day =). For me, they have been the most
important help in my fight against depression, and I am truly grateful
to Steve for writing them and publish them online for free.

One particular thing that I have come to understand through reading
them is that my life and mind is something that I design myself.
Changing my mind and thought patterns is pretty much like fiddling
with a computer program or any other kind of machinery. Getting free
from depression is like any other project, and I can use my rational
mind for planning and testing different strategies for reaching the
goal of being free of depression. This has been a huge shift in my
thinking and it has been very empowering to think of life in this way.

Finally, I don't think you should rule out medicine. It may lift the
heavy clouds of depression that stops your mind from working
effectively, and help you sort out the causes for your depression,
through therpay and/or own work on your personal development. Modern
SSRI-preparates (Prozac etc.) have quite mild side effects, but you
should maybe be a bit careful with stronger types of medicines. You
should of course discuss this with your doctor.

[Brendon Colby]

I've struggled with depression for about 12 years now (I'm 26). I grew up in northern South Dakota and I remember the winters being the worst for me. I think part of it was SAD, part of it was being overweight and not exercising, part it is was my family life, and part of it was diet (junk food, chips, lots of mt. dew, etc.)

After I got myself into counseling, I made tremendous strides on diet, exercise, how I think and feel about myself and others, how to set boundaries and be assertive, etc. Eventually it got to a point where I knew my counselor could no longer help me. I think all these other things were simply layered over a core, low level depression caused by lack of purpose and place in life. I found it extremely frustrating that after everything I did I still was depressed!

So that's where I am now. I wouldn't say I'm depressed, but there is still that underlying dis-ease about my purpose here and "what it's all about." Just knowing this has been a tremendous help though. I have picked up many useful support skills like working out, eating (somewhat) better, eliminating my negative thinking, meditation, etc. None of these have been the "solution" but have definitely helped.

[angelicfruit]

I too have experienced depression on and off for a large part of my life. The single biggest factors I have found to improve my mental health are diet, meditation, exercise and sunlight!

What you eat has a major impact on how you feel. I found that by improving my diet my mental health also improved considerably. I now eat a vegan diet and have not eaten gluten or dairy products in 7 years. In hindsight it is clear now I have an intolerance to gluten and dairy which caused me many years of misery. I'm not saying this will be the case for you too, but it's worth been mindful about what you are eating and how it makes you feel.

Mediation and exercise have been a great help too. Meditation has helped by allowing me to become more aware of the thoughts which were contributing to my depression and letting them move on instead of reacting to them. Exercise is a no brainer - getting my body moving makes me feel good.

Sunlight - I live in London and in Winter its dark when I get up in the mornings (6-7am) and when I leave work (6-7pm). During the course of the day I get get almost no exposure to natural light except when I go outside for a walk at lunchtimes. After a couple of Winters of been depressed I finally tweaked last Winter that it was S.A.D (The Seasonal Affective Disorder Association) and invested in a lightbox. Using the lightbox for 30minutes every morning has made a tremdenous difference to me during the winter. I can't recommend it enough.

Best of luck

[Alarin]

My sympathies toasterwater, I know exactly what you're going through and battled depression myself for a number of years. I've been on top of it for a good two years now so I can definately say there is light at the end of the tunnel! Here's how I sent the black dog back to his kennel with his tail between his legs

I am quite embarrassed about this

Firstly don't be embarrased about having depression! It's an extremely common illness these days and very treatable.

Secondly, go download and read this absolutely fantastic and free depression resource called The Learning Path. This book is very easy to read and explains the science behind depression and how you can treat it yourself by changing your thinking patterns - reading this book and implementing the changes was absolutely criticial to my overcoming depression.

Thirdly don't work yourself too hard, physically or mentally. Depression is caused by a lack of seratonin, yes, but not enough people realise that concentrated activity and intense physical activity contribute to lowered seratonin levels by increasing your adrenalin and cortosol levels. Put simply - imagine you have a Sims-style bar of seratonin, and the more you use your brain intensley (studying, reading, coding, etc, for more than 9 or so hours a day) or exercise intensley the lower your seratonin bar gets. To increase it back to maximum you need to do things that give your mind and body a break - sleep, watch movies, play computer games, etc. Exercise is essential but you might want to try something low-intensity for a while, personally I love walking.

I firmly believe that part of the depression crisis our western society is facing is due to people overworking themselves and being overworked by money-hungry corporations. We're not machines, you have to play as much as work if your brain is going to remain healthy - like any organ in the body it can and does wear out with too much use.

Fourthly stay busy and don't let your mind wander, this is critical to beating the negative-thinking loops that help cause and continue depression (there's heaps more info about that in the free book I linked to). If you're in a situation where you're waiting - on public transport, at the doctors, doing a task which leaves your mind free to wander like gardening or painting - keep your mind occupied by listening to music (make sure it's positive stuff!) or better yet audiobooks / podcasts, or reading a fun engaging book.

Fifthly realise that there are good days and bad days, and that they happen to everyone not just you. I don't know the science behind it but the human brain and body seems to work on a rotation of a few highly positive pro-active days followed by a "downtime" period of a few days, then a few normal days, then back to the supercharged days. Take the bad days as they come, be kind to yourself and realise they will soon pass. I like to remember the quote "without darkness there would be no light".

Sixthly get rid of as many negative influences in your life as you can - tv news, negative people, sad, negative or aggressive movies / books / music. Think of them as seeds which are planted in your mind and purposefully replace them with seeds that are positive, uplifting and relaxing, like fun or inspiring movies, music, books and - most importantly - people.

Finally don't discount antidepressant drugs - depending on the type of depression you have you may need them if you're not already taking them. There are two main types of depression - circumstantial and seratonin deficient. To me it sounds like you have the second type. For people with circumstantial depression they can often be returned to full health after a stressful period in their life by proper rest, exercise, making some lifestyle changes and sometimes taking antidepressants. For people who are seratonin deficient it's a chemical imbalance which means that although the additional steps like changing thinking patterns and lifestyle are very very important, it's always going to be a lot more difficult to keep depression at bay than for someone who has normal seratonin functions.

Antidepressants aren't a silver bullet, I believe it's absolutely essential to also fight it on a physological and physical level (again detailed in that book, it's too much to go into here), but if you're seratonin deficient I also believe antidepressants are an essential weapon against depression. I avoided taking them for years, thinking I could do it by willpower alone (and had my depression been circumstantial I probably could have), but eventually I decided to also incorporate antidepressants and the improvement has been substantial and - most importantly - long term.

I hope that helps!

[Guinevere]

I agree with what angelicfruit said about diet, exercise and sunlight. Some vitamin deficiencies are related to depression (I'm not sure I remember correctly, but some B vits. and zinc). So maybe a trip to the doctor/nutritionist could help.
I don't thing this is anything to be ashamed about.
I'm not sure if this was already mentioned: a journal may help, at least in mild cases. When I feel depressed, I write about my feelings, either to let them out, and sometimes to get to what's really bothering me. Sometimes depression is something else (maybe anger) in disguise.
Good luck!

[Strangemagik]

Originally Posted by Trina

Here is Steve's article about overcoming depression...
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ng-depression/

I can definitely relate, but I haven't quite mastered how to overcome my own depression a lot of the time, so I don't know that I cold actually give you any helpful advice except maybe to look into therapy. I know that talking to someone outside of your situation can sometimes help!

I just read this and I can see that is stuff I do instictively when I notice I'm getting depressed.

[mej023]

I just had the thought that EFT would probably help with depression. I will have to check it out.

[Lotus]

Depression is a bitch. I'm 26, and I've had problems with major depression since I was 12. Mine has been directly related to having multiple chronic health problems (mostly autoimmune) including type 1a diabetes, post-lingual deafness from AIED (at age 20, I have a cochlar implant now), recurring polychondritis, a wegener's-like interstitial vasculitis of the lungs (which culminated in chemotherapy), untreatable ulcerative colitis (which is now a moot point, goodbye colon!), liver problems... it's a long, boring list.

Last January (Friday, Jan 20, 11:30 a.m.) I tried to kill myself. I took about 35 days worth of fast-acting insulin (I use an insulin pump for my diabetes, so having 3 months worth of fact-acting insulin in my fridge is a neccessity). Obviously it didn't kill me. I'm left with a strange fearlessness of death. I used to worry a lot about "what comes next," until I tried to off myself; now, it just doesn't bother me. Common side-effect of surviving suicide? I don't know. I try not to surround myself with depressives, because we're a group that tends to live in our heads far too much.

Surround yourself with out-going people. One of the most dangerous aspects of depression is its ability to mire you in a viscious cycle of seclusion: you don't feel like interacting, so you don't interact; the more you don't interact, the more you don't want to interact; etc...

It's a self-miring bog that can become disturbingly comforting. I tend to be so drained from social interaction that I want to just fold up into myself at times. I know this is not good for me, so I force myself to go out and be social, despite the stress it causes me initially.

Don't discount anti-depressants, but BE CAREFUL when taking them. It's become almost trite to even mention it, but during the first couple of months of SSRI anti-depressant therapy, you may be at increased risk for suicide. I've been on and off of anti-depressants for well nigh 14 years, and I only tried to kill myself after I'd been taking a big-gun anti-depressant for 2 months. It can give you the energy and motivation you need to harm yourself before the "I feel like me again" feelings begin to emerge.

Exercise. Yes, you need it. Yes, everyone says it's good for you. Yes, the thought of getting up and actually purposefully moving is about as appealing as sticking your hand in a pot full of boiling water, especially when you are caught in the throws of depression. But even a 10 minute walk every day can make a huge difference.

Laugh. (How pathetic is this? Our brains don't know the difference between a fake laugh and a spontaneous laugh.) Rent comedy movies that make you smile and laugh out loud. (I keep Monty Python and the Holy Grail around, and Office Space, and lots of really stupid zombie movies.) You can induce feel-good chemicals to flood your brain by just laughing. Subscribe to a comic strip (I prefer Dilbert, Penny Arcade, Get Fuzzy, and Foxtrot) that you enjoy. Hang around with friends who are complete chuckle-sluts, i.e. they'll do just about anything to get a laugh out of their audience.

Keep a daily routine of personal grooming and hygene. Routines are very important for depressed individuals. Even if you don't feel like getting in the shower and fixing your hair and face every day... do it. Just taking care of yourself is an important step in defeating the horrible emptiness of depression. The days that you feel grubby and nasty on the outside are the days when it's easiest to feel nasty on the inside.

Recognize self-directed anger. This tends to be a difficult concept for people who suffer chronic depression. (I'm about as dangerous as a sleepy kitten, but I tend to internalize all my emotions, rather than expressing them.) The more you fire the sequence of neurons that say "dude, I --like-- suck," the more those neurons confirm themselves as a thought-pattern in your head. Self-directed anger ("I suck" thinking) becomes habitual or reactionary. Remember the adage: neurons that fire together... wire together.

I'm venturing into the dreaded redundancy territory, so I'll just point up in the thread for more advice. If you feel suicidal, then definitely get into therapy or check yourself into a mental hospital. I've been there; they aren't bad places--they're safe-havens.

PM me or email me if you want to talk one-on-one.

[RandomJohn]

On antidepressants ... there is a middle ground, but I would talk this over with a holistic doctor who is familiar first. There are some amino acid (AA) protocols that tweak serotonin and dopamine levels (serotonin isn't the only thing that affects feelings of well-being). However, they work through healthcare practitioners -- don't grab some 5-HTP off a health-store shelf and expect results. (That's only 15% effective.) If you think you might need to address depression medically, this is ONE route you can take.

There is also the possibility to combine antidepressants and AA therapy, which I think is superior to antidepressants alone because antidepressants, depending on their target and function, can deplete serotonin and dopamine (they prevent reuptake, which means that they function better but clear more quickly as well).

Other than that, I can't add to the comments here. And yes, I do take AAs for depression.

[RandomJohn]

Oops .. I should give you a reference

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