Why do we cry when someone dies?

[Rose of Cairo]

Yes, why are we sad when someone we love dies? Let's assume you believe in God, or in reincarnation, or in some other theory saying that some part of the dying person, like the soul, survives after death. Then they're fine when they die, there is no reason to be sad. And if you don't believe in such things, well then they have no consciousness anymore to notice they are dead in the first place, so it's nothing bad, and there is no reason to be sad either.

So, why do we cry? Isn't it completely selfish, just because we need or miss them?

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Isn't it completely selfish, just because we need or miss them?

Funny you should mention this, because some friend and I were discussing this very thing just a couple of days ago.

I personally think it's exactly as you stated; because we feel that once they're removed from our lives, there's a part of us that disappears as well. The energies that we've expended and received have been cut away, and that hurts.

[Jenny]

I think for the same reason we cry when a relationship ends or a friend or family members moves to the other side of the country or even world. In that moment our life has changed and can never been made the same. I think it is a perfectly natural (and perhaps slightly selfish) response.

[Interpreneur]

I agree. It's all about how selfish we are. It's not about them. It's really all about ME ME ME.

[Jenny]

Originally Posted by Interpreneur

I agree. It's all about how selfish we are. It's not about them. It's really all about ME ME ME.

I think that's okay though as we and our feelings matter. When life changes it's important to acknowledge that it has changed and when someone dear to us dies it will likely take time to adjust to their absence in our lives.

[aziwok]

if You Don't Cry then Dead Person Goes To Hell.
If somebody cry for you then God says "you have somebody to cry for you so come to heaven."

[dancer]

Originally Posted by Interpreneur

I agree. It's all about how selfish we are. It's not about them. It's really all about ME ME ME.

Are you so sure about that? Is it pure selfishness of parents to mourn their young child?

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

So, why do we cry? Isn't it completely selfish, just because we need or miss them?

I agree with Jenny. I see nothing wrong with being sad because someone you love is no longer a part of your life. That applies to any form of loss, not only that caused by death.

It's also quite possible that people feel sorrow through empathy for the opportunities the deceased no longer has. *hat tip to dancer*

Rose, I wrote a short story in high school which asked the same questions. I went to a Christian school and had been questioning the religion, and the behaviour of people who followed it. Back then I couldn't understand the sorrow either, particularly when the priest would talk about how the deceased was now with God. It made me suspect hypocrisy. Of course back then I wasn't close to anyone who had died, and was even too young to have lost any really close friends (through moving or changing schools, etc). So I didn't understand the feeling of loss, and how it can override the feelings brought about by less immediate beliefs.

[Rose of Cairo]

Nonono Mark, don't get me wrong! I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling sad when you miss someone who's not there anymore. That's perfectly ok. I'm sorry I used the word "selfish" which seems to be negative. What I meant was "it is self-ish, it's all about us, not about them, isn't it?"

My point was: we have no reason to feel sad for them, and in fact we feel sad for ourselves, right? It's ok to be sad for ourselves of course. Just wanted to clarify that point, because some people are outraged and try to make you feel guilty when you don't mourn someone who died. As if it were about that person. But it's not about them, it's about us.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

My point was: we have no reason to feel sad for them, and in fact we feel sad for ourselves, right?

Yeah that's probably true. Though, I know sometimes, when someone dies, we feel sad for those who will miss them. For example, I felt very sad when a friend's wife died. She was still in her 20's, and I felt quite sad for her sudden death, because she won't get to see her son grow up, she had a whole life ahead, and because my friend will suffer for it. I didn't really know her well, though I had been at their wedding. So I suppose at least for a small percentage, it isn't self-oriented to feel sad for the person passing.

[Angela]

It could be argued that it's an evolutionary loss -- that the pain we feel is generated by the decreasing likelihood of the survival of our genes.

This might be part of the explanation of why the pain is so great when you lose a child - a direct extension of our gene survival. And we tend to mourn more for our immediate family, who carry our genes, and our spouse, who is a primary ensurer of the procreation of our genes, than for people outside of our gene pool. Maybe even the death of a close friend could be explained by this -- someone who is interested in you thriving and surviving (because they love you, or because they're geographically close enough that the likelihood of genetic relation is high) would be somebody your genes would 'consider' to be evolutionary desirable.

Just speculating.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Nonono Mark, don't get me wrong! I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling sad when you miss someone who's not there anymore. That's perfectly ok. I'm sorry I used the word "selfish" which seems to be negative. What I meant was "it is self-ish, it's all about us, not about them, isn't it?"

Ahh sorry Rose! I misinterpreted your tone!

Originally Posted by Angela

It could be argued that it's an evolutionary loss -- that the pain we feel is generated by the decreasing likelihood of the survival of our genes.

This might be part of the explanation of why the pain is so great when you lose a child - a direct extension of our gene survival. And we tend to mourn more for our immediate family, who carry our genes, and our spouse, who is a primary ensurer of the procreation of our genes, than for people outside of our gene pool. Maybe even the death of a close friend could be explained by this -- someone who is interested in you thriving and surviving (because they love you, or because they're geographically close enough that the likelihood of genetic relation is high) would be somebody your genes would 'consider' to be evolutionary desirable.

Just speculating.

Aspiring to become an evolutionary psychologist?

If that were the case I think it would boil down to a couple of questions. (1) Could sorrow caused by death have a genetic foundation, and (2) does sorrow confer an evolutionary advantage over competing behaviours (e.g., an unemotional response).

(1) is difficult to answer because we don't really understand emotions yet. Not even their neurological foundation, let alone genetic... And (2) is moot if (1) is false.

[4Mind4Life]

Crying is a natural response to death (especially of a loved one). It is important to cry to release and express emotions and the emotional connection to that person. It shows love and caring towards that person on an emotional level.

[Angela]

I think many evolutionists would agree that emotions could have a genetic basis, Mark. (I was just reading last weekend about the possibility of dreams having an evolutionary basis, even!). And if they do, I can easily see how an emotionally positive response to survival of the carriers of your genes, and the potential "helpers" (people who would contribute sperm or womb-time), and a negative emotional response to threat or interference with their survival, would of course be desirable, in an evolutionary sense.

I wouldn't be so motivated to keep my children (and therefore my genetic line) alive if I had no such positive and negative emotional response, would I?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by 4Mind4Life

Crying is a natural response to death (especially of a loved one). It is important to cry to release and express emotions and the emotional connection to that person. It shows love and caring towards that person on an emotional level.

Why is that important, 4Mind4Life? I'm sorry if I sound like I have Asberger's, but I don't see why crying is necessary to show love and caring towards the dead person. Who are you showing? Yourself? If you already feel it, you don't have to show yourself. The dead person? He doesn't care. Other mourners? Why would they need to see your love and caring, if they have their own? (and even if they don't).

[eblight]

As some of you have pointed out the loss of someone close to us may bring up our own survival issues, and our fear of our own mortality. Death after all can be very scary if we are very much identified with the physical body. What after all are we without it? For many that question would cause immense fear. The death of someone we love does/can cause feelings of sadness and loss as well as guilt, and anger. It is part of being human. It is part of the grieving process.

[NotesMaeve]

Last time I was at the neurologist's with my boyfriend I burst out crying when the topic of death came up. I think people cry about death because when it's someone else, part of your life is crafted with that person, and who you are comes out in what you do and how you do it. I will probably outlive Slamhot, and a small part of my heart hurts knowing that. That means that loving, wonderful part of me will have to find some other way of generating all those great qualities that Slamhot let me express. And that also means I'll get no more direct expressions of his love, and being without that is profoundly sad to me. So, yeah, that's why the thought alone makes me cry.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Angela

I think many evolutionists would agree that emotions could have a genetic basis, Mark.

Some emotions, yes. But specific emotions? Arguably everything has a genetic basis. But how much? What factors influence its expression? Is sorrow a primary emotion (like fear), or a secondary emotion (like the enjoyment of intellectual pursuits)? Since primary emotions are tied more closely to innate physiological processes, they're more likely to have a strong genetic component. But secondary emotions vary more than primary as a result of individual experiences. I.e., they're subjective. The fact that some cultures celebrate death shows that another person's death does not necessarily lead to sorrow, or at least that it manifests differently. Either people in those cultures don't have the required genes, or it's not something that depends much on genetics, or cultural influences are much stronger.

Originally Posted by Angela

And if they do, I can easily see how an emotionally positive response to survival of the carriers of your genes, and the potential "helpers" (people who would contribute sperm or womb-time), and a negative emotional response to threat or interference with their survival, would of course be desirable, in an evolutionary sense.

Agreed. But is that natural evolution, or cultural evolution? That's more or less what I'm getting at. Can it be understood through genetic mechanisms, or psychological ones inspired by culture?

Originally Posted by Angela

I wouldn't be so motivated to keep my children (and therefore my genetic line) alive if I had no such positive and negative emotional response, would I?

No, you wouldn't. But see the above point about the nature of that response

[ixmatus]

I actually don't feel pain when someone close to me dies. Both of my grandmothers and both of my grandfathers have passed on and it never phased me the slightest - I personally haven't figured it out, but my family does think I am weird for that.

Maybe it will be different with someone closer to me, I dunno.

[wolfgang]

People grive differntly but I've always wondered why some people don't cry when someone dies. It's just feeling loss and grief, tears for things that can't happen again with that person. What's so hard to understand that people will cry that that connection is gone? Some people will cry because that person can not be part of their life any more and then some other don't (but I don't get why they don't).

[alsy]

Angela, your gene survival theory is interesting, and i am open to its probability.

Rose of Cairo. You said “So, why do we cry?”, in relation to when someone dies.
That is a general assumption. I have experienced it once, but I do not experience it. I had a friend die in his early twenties in a car accident. His cultural background (parents) was same as mine. There were a lot of our parents generation at his funeral, and there was a fair bit of sadness and some grieving expressed. The culture of our parents generation is specifically one of mourning during death. Wearing black for so many days, and not attending to any celebrations. I never took this on board, and still do not, but while I saw everyone in this sadness business, I ended up trying the grieving part when the coffin was being lowered. I experienced if fully. My memory of the grieving, was one of focusing that he was a good kid, was good company, wont be around any more, and missing or wanting these things to be but at the same time knowing that it is not going to be.
That was the only time I have done it. I experienced it, and once was enough. It is not my thing. I have had and auntie and uncle die at relatively early ages from illness, but did not go into it then either.

Death is viewed and experienced differently in some cultures. Is it in the Irish culture where there is celebration after someone dies, where the good memories of when they were alive, are celebrated. Surely there is someone here that can expand on this, plus confirm or correct me.

I gave the example of what i experienced in my grieving process, but i am curious if across the board in the being sad when someone dies, weather there is truth to it being related to resisting or non acceptance of reality as it is. Wanting something to be as it is not, or which can’t be. Not accepting reality as it is. For example; If say there is a desire to; still be with the person; or express or do something they did not do when they were alive, or simply unresolved matters they would like to have come to some completion with them. These things that can not be done, but the fact is they are no longer.

[oldbiker]

guys, besides our selfish and in addetition to the reason that we cry coz we gonna miss the one who died, i blieve that we cry because the death story stimulate in our selves the instinctive fear from it. That we un-consciously recognize and smell the scent of death of leaving this world.

[Lauxa]

Sorry, didn't read -all- the previous responses...

I think it's because we have regrets. Maybe we never told them how much they meant to us or we argued the last time we saw them. Maybe we had hoped to do great things with them in the future and then suddenly their time is up and those plans can never come to fruition. Maybe we even think that we should have done something so that they would not have died.

We would probably cry just because of the loss, but I think it is worse if we have regrets as well.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Agreed. But is that natural evolution, or cultural evolution?

I'd say natural.

The reason is that mourning and grief is not at all limited to human beings, but is observable among many animal species, especially the more intelligent ones.

Even dogs grieve, when a member of their human family dies. A grieving dog can even pine away until it dies.

[Rose of Cairo]

The reason why I'm asking is that one of my cats had a renal failure last week and almost died. Then everything was fine again, but now it looks really bad. He doesn't eat anything and will probably die. My mother (he lives with my mother, not with me) talked about euthanasia.

And I'm crying, crying, crying... I've been crying for hours now. I just can't seem to stop myself. But I'm asking myself why I cry so much, if that's not selfish. I'm also asking myself if euthanasia would be the right thing to do, and if I should fly to my mother's place immediately.

And my kidneys are hurting like hell.

[dancer]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

The reason why I'm asking is that one of my cats had a renal failure last week and almost died. Then everything was fine again, but now it looks really bad. He doesn't eat anything and will probably die. My mother (he lives with my mother, not with me) talked about euthanasia.

And I'm crying, crying, crying... I've been crying for hours now. I just can't seem to stop myself. But I'm asking myself why I cry so much, if that's not selfish. I'm also asking myself if euthanasia would be the right thing to do, and if I should fly to my mother's place immediately.

And my kidneys are hurting like hell.

Rose, don't beat yourself up because you are crying. Accept you are sad and are expressing and releasing this sadness with your tears. I am really sorry about your cat, I'm a cat lover, too. They are wonderful friends.

Euthanasia is a tough decision and very personal. I've been in the position where I had to decide whether to save or not save another's life. Not quite euthanasia, but as close as you can get. My only advice is to make your decision from a loving place.

Lot of love

[uberinquisitive]

I am a huge fan of crying!

As many know, my fiance killed himself back in January. Since then, I've been part of a lot of suicide support groups. And, those who cry and cry and cry recover much better than those who don't cry.

It's like the crying is a release valve for emotions. Is it selfish? Perhaps, but what's wrong with that? What's wrong with doing something that doesn't hurt anyone else, and only helps you? What's wrong that it's all about ME?

I still cry over my dead fiance. Why? Because I miss him. Because I feel so sorry that he felt he had to die. Because my heart hurts when I wonder about the future we might have had. Sometimes, I cry because I'm angry at him. Notice, it's all about ME, ME, ME. And...I am sooooo ok with that! I'm sure his dead spirit doesn't mind. After I cry, I feel a little better.

So I say...cry! Crying validates that your pain exists. You don't have to analyze it or put theory behind it. If you want to cry, just do it.

[Lola]

I cry at the loss of people and pets close to me. Not because I have a fear of death, nor because of any doubt that their souls live on but simply because I will greatly miss their physical presence.

Several years ago my family experienced the deaths of six close family members within an eight week period. I learned at that time that the age of the deceased was irrelevant, whether it was an accidental, unexpected death vs. the end of a long, terminal illness made no difference to the grief.

My grief is for knowing I'll never again feel those particular arms wrapped around me in a hug, that breath on my neck, that voice in my ear, that smile in my gaze. I'll never again play chase with that funny, loyal dog that's been in my life for 15 years. That's what I cry for. Yes, it's all about me and very much a phase of my grieving process.

[Rose of Cairo]

His state is worsening. I'm packing my bags right now. I've canceled all appointments and will jump in the first train to south France. See you there!

[Lola]

Be safe.

Hugs and love to you and Beloved Cat.