I'm always right, you're always wrong

[persephonevii]

So today I was sitting on the lounge wondering why I always get so nervous about speaking my own piece or opinion in RL or on the net. Or why I get so cranky or depressed when someone disagrees with me or proves me wrong?

It occurred to me a few questions: Why do I get so worked-up in the first place? Because I am wrong. But why is it so bad to be wrong?

I have never really thought about it properly. Sure I heard the epitaphs... people don't like to be wrong or to fail, etc. I'd nod my head along in faux sympathy and go along my merry old way.

I think I have this great, submerged desire to be always right or at least on the side considered to be right. I don't want to be seen on the wrong or mistaken side. I want to be right and correct. I want to be praised or sympathized with. And I certainly don't want any opposition!

Then when I do get opposition, I try to be rational about it: everyone has differing views, it is okay. It's okay to be mistaken, no one is perfect.

But I feel self-doubt, annoyance (even anger sometimes) at the opposition, I worry I'm not good enough, that I'm useless and I feel so naive and silly. So before long I'm seething about the 'stupid, stupid' opposition and then getting depressed about 'stupid, stupid' me.

It's also why I'm such a conformist, I don't have to deal with this emotional mess and it's wonderful and even life-affirming at times to have a hundred other people agree with you too.

But I don't think that's good enough. What if I ended up conforming to something in reality, was really awful? So I want to stand apart but not be wracked by a million negative emotions for days on end. I know there are people out there and in here who don't become cranky despots when proved wrong or when disagreed with, I want to know how to get there too.

I need to become someone who enjoys debate, doesn't mind being wrong and isn't so hung up about speaking my own mind.

[Tigerlilly]

I believe this fear and pain is not so much about whether we are wrong in anything. Depending on what it is about I don't care at all whether I'm proven wrong or not. Give me a mathematical equation, let me mess it up, prove me wrong and I couldn't care less.

And debates on a purely theoretical basis, like what do I think about the political situation in China are equally safe territory because it's something set apart from me.

But as soon as what I express in words or action is somehow attached to my self-worth, if it means something to me, I become extremely vulnerable. The more I feel I'm laying open my soul, that I'm expressing who I am, the more edgy I become about other people's reaction to it.

I can't be wrong when in a post I say this is how I feel, this is what I think when I simply state what I feel and think, cause I'm speaking the truth about my own experience of things, but you can still say, I disagree with you. Then basically what you're saying is not that I'm wrong, but what you're really saying is, I differ and thus show me my aloneness in my experience.

And if then on top of showing me that we are apart and different you do it with a sneer, you're showing me that you think little of my experience. And since usually I identify with my experience of life as in I am what I feel and think and do, that hurts.

And so I am afraid just like you a lot of times to varying degrees that range from nervousness to embarassment to feeling wound and beaten all over, but still I need to go on and share, even if sometimes it takes a while to come around again, cause not doing so feels like death, failing my life.

I think that is what we are really afraid of, feeling we're apart from others and worth less than they are. It's not about being wrong but the fear of being rejected and even more threatening of being rejected on grounds of being not good enough.

I'm just thinking of this song by Cindy Lauper where she sings about seeing someone's true colors. I believe the true colors of our soul, our true self are always beautiful and absolutely fabulous.

However in daily matters, in trivial occasions, I often lack the consciousness of this fact. I try to remain aware of it, and show others the kindness and consideration I believe in, but it's like diving down into the water and being carried upwards to the surface of things time and again. And like all others I then sometimes say things that don't do the soul that is the other person I'm dealing with any justice.

I believe the more you feel unity with other people at a core level the more the fear of being different from them on a superficial level vanishes. But you can't escape being hurt by some responses to you until you reach that place where you feel such unity with all others that they are you, and that I consider some task. But I believe also that the nearer you're getting the more these hurts become simple fleshwounds you can handle, like cutting your finger.

And I believe only the ego sets standards for experience to measure people with it and it's only the ego speaking when it tries to evaluate itself by putting others down. And it's your own ego playing along with the others when it accepts this positioning and makes you feel rotten.

We're so often told by wise people not to be afraid to share ourselves with others and life, that our value is untouchable, I guess it's just one of these truths that take getting there in person to be able to fully believe in them.

[persephonevii]

Originally Posted by Tigerlilly

I believe the more you feel unity with other people at a core level the more the fear of being different from them on a superficial level vanishes. But you can't escape being hurt by some responses to you until you reach that place where you feel such unity with all others that they are you, and that I consider some task. But I believe also that the nearer you're getting the more these hurts become simple fleshwounds you can handle, like cutting your finger.

And I believe only the ego sets standards for experience to measure people with it and it's only the ego speaking when it tries to evaluate itself by putting others down. And it's your own ego playing along with the others when it accepts this positioning and makes you feel rotten.

We're so often told by wise people not to be afraid to share ourselves with others and life, that our value is untouchable, I guess it's just one of these truths that take getting there in person to be able to fully believe in them.

Thanks for replying. I think it really is a fear of rejection. One time I made a post to another forum about college kids, anyway I expressed my opinion on the subject and left it at that. Later on I went to check if anyone had replied, I started to get nervous of what would people think of me and my post. Would they think me insensitive? Naive? Out of touch? Before long I was bouncing around with anxiety and thinking matching out-of-control thoughts, 'what if they kick me out?' 'what if they hate me?', etc. etc. I simply had to check.

So I did, and someone didn't agree with me. I was not happy but it was nothing as bad as my out of control thoughts predicted it would be. I still felt insecure, the person had good points and I suddenly felt self-conscious and naive.

You see I hate that rollercoaster of emotion. I feel okay now. But I just loathe it. So I would love to get to that place where being wrong, failing or being disagreed with is just a flesh wound.

I think for people who haven't yet reached a stage of 'greatness' (for lack of a much better word), like myself, it is easy to equate yours with you and to see being wrong or being disagreed likened to rejection. Although it isn't. Still it's a huge mind hurdle to cross/comprehend, and really comprehend.

[Angela]

Welcome to the human race! Everybody wants to be right and avoid being wrong. Everybody wants to look good and avoid looking bad. We go to such lengths in that pursuit, and tangle ourselves up in the struggle.

But what's the pain of being wrong, really? If I see that I'm wrong, that gives me a golden opportunity to learn something, doesn't it? It gives me the opportunity unfold something in myself that I've been clutching. Admitting a mistake allows in the flow of something that works better. Plus, it really makes people happy when I admit a mistake! What a generous thing I can do for people!

So what are they gonna do, take away my children? Shoot me in the kneecaps? I guess there are mistakes I could make that would lead to those outcomes, but there's no real imminent danger in seeing or admitting that I'm wrong or mistaken. Emotional pain that would result is all self-created, which reminds me that I also have the power to acknowledge and release that emotional pain. And then I would be free to reap all the benefits of being fully self-expressed, and cleaning up as I go along. I think it would work for me to focus on generating love and affinity in the conversation, rather than worrying about stepping on a minefield. What would work for you?

And of course I'm probably wrong about all of this!

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by Angela

So what are they gonna do, take away my children? Shoot me in the kneecaps? I guess there are mistakes I could make that would lead to those outcomes, but there's no real imminent danger in seeing or admitting that I'm wrong or mistaken.

Whoah, Ang, slow down a bit here.

There is a potential for imminent danger.

If the pattern of "being wrong" is continual, that can - and does - set up a predisposition of, "I'm always wrong, therefore I'll just keep my mouth shut and not offer my opinion/advice."

That's counter-productive and isn't conducive to learning.

While the danger may not be physical, like getting kneecapped or something, it's a danger nonetheless because it may reinforce negative self-talk and behaviour.

Human beings exist in community with one another, and part of that community dynamic means that we need the occasional approbation from one another. Constant criticism, though, like 'you're always wrong' diminishes people and sets up a system whereby the criticized person always lives down to the expectations of them.

I see this in organizations I work with every day, where bosses/managers/owners dole out criticisms in great heaping gobs, but dispense positive reinforcement in the tiniest, insincere drops. The result is lower productivity, more sick days, disorganization, increased errors and a shakier bottom line.

[Angela]

I see what you mean, cdn, and I sure wouldn't want anyone to give themselves negative reinforcement! Thanks for pointing that out.

It might be the language. "I'm wrong" is a lot different than "my statement is wrong" or "I made a mistake." Who I am is not what I say or what I believe. Chances are, my statements are wrong and I make mistakes all over the place, but that doesn't make "me" wrong -- in other words, the danger is identifying with being wrong or being a mistake, which you're right, would be much worse than getting kneecapped! I'm changing the way I use those words, effective now.

[persephonevii]

Originally Posted by cdn2wheeler

If the pattern of "being wrong" is continual, that can - and does - set up a predisposition of, "I'm always wrong, therefore I'll just keep my mouth shut and not offer my opinion/advice."

That's the idea I kept getting, but I knew always I could not and would not remain silent. I don't want to always be silent because I feel oneday some decision or action will be taken which I am against, and I want to speak out and not let it all walk over me.

I see that saying 'I'm wrong' can be extremely dangerous. Believing myself to be wrong can lead to this emotional response I loathe, and I think what I say I equate with myself. My speech = me, therefore if my speech/words are wrong... I am wrong. I believe I am all I create, that these words are me, those actions are me. Consciously and intellectually I know that's not true, but it is what I really believe deep down.

I liked the idea of acknowledging and releasing negative emotions, Angela. That could work for me. But if I wanted to really root out this problem properly, I have to change the core belief of 'I am what I create'.

I remember Eckhart Tolle mentioning how the ego loves to latch onto things like our jobs, our houses, our children, etc. and make them us. We are our jobs, houses and children... which sounds actually kind of bizarre when you read it out loud. It latches onto these things because it doesn't want to face death/annihilation and thinks it can hide and define itself in these creations. Perhaps a lot of our limiting beliefs are the ego's beliefs or rules, and ultimately it's system of survival. So breaking these rules and dissolving these beliefs would perhaps destroy the ego? And of course the ego's worst nightmare is destruction of self, and thus it fights nail and tooth to stop our efforts to destroy it.

Hmmm... I just realized this right now. This is like online journaling but in front of everyone else, lol.

Anyways, thanks again Tigerlilly, Angela and cdn2wheeler for all the advice and useful thoughts

[Fullcrum]

This is just a symptom of a bigger issue. I've experienced what you felt before and then have not felt it later, and the main issue was that I cared what people thought of me. I'd rather be concerned with my character, knowing that I'm on my path, etc.

The immediate thing is you allow others opinions to dictate a sense of self to you. Stop caring. If you constantly cut off these nervous threads with, "Wait, I do not give a damn about what anyone thinks of me." soon it'll rewire your neurology.

It gives you the freedom to speak your mind and be positive, and then whoever resonates with YOU, you'll gravitate towards each other. Why do you care what people think of you, anyway?

Oh, and, your ego thing is spot on. Eckhart rarely fails us

[persephonevii]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

This is just a symptom of a bigger issue. I've experienced what you felt before and then have not felt it later, and the main issue was that I cared what people thought of me. I'd rather be concerned with my character, knowing that I'm on my path, etc.

The immediate thing is you allow others opinions to dictate a sense of self to you. Stop caring. If you constantly cut off these nervous threads with, "Wait, I do not give a damn about what anyone thinks of me." soon it'll rewire your neurology.

It gives you the freedom to speak your mind and be positive, and then whoever resonates with YOU, you'll gravitate towards each other. Why do you care what people think of you, anyway?

Oh, and, your ego thing is spot on. Eckhart rarely fails us

Thankyou too. Anyway, I liked your idea about rewiring one's neurology with cutting off those nervous threads. Yes, I do worry about getting other people's approval too and that comes into my 'I must always be right' problem. Funny... I think I am right if someone approves. I need someone to tell me I'm right!? When one should require no one to reinforce their ideas constantly. Very strange to think like that really.

[Fullcrum]

When you realize the absurdity of the reactive reality, its really easy to start walking your own path, get in touch with your own power, and...not give a damn what other people think of you.

Cause when you think like that, the people that will be good to you and resonate will come into your life anyway.