Complete and utter failure of my neural circuitry

[Sourcerer]

I've had a serious problem when communicating with people for as long as I can remember. I've recently noticed signs of improvement, but I'm still far from what my goal is.

The problem is this: whenever I start a conversation with other people, my consciousness is switched off completely. Even if just a minute before the conversation I thought that this time it won't happen, it still does. It's like an automatic switch somewhere - when I engage in a conversation, or someone starts a conversation with me (and particularly then) it goes off and I'm completely shut out of the whole thing.

If you've seen the movie Click, then you know what it means to be on 'autopilot'. Well, in a conversation that's what I am - on an autopilot.

After the conversation is over, I find myself emerging from the depths of my subconscious and I wonder what the heck happened. I can remember some details of the conversation - the topic, what I said, what the person who I was talking to said - as well as their mimicry such as would reveal their emotions and perhaps a deeper meaning of what they were saying, or what effect what I was saying had on them. But during the actual conversation, even though I notice these things, I have no control over them; my responses remain default.

I've been learning some conversational techniques lately - keeping eye contact for example, if the term I used confuses you - but what good are they if I just can't use them?

The improvement that came lately was that I manage to "wake up" during a conversation. However, when I do, I can't seem to drag all those techniques I learned into conscious view so that I may use them. My greatest victory lately is that when I finally woke up once, I looked the person I was talking to in the eyes. But that was all I managed to recall, and even this was because for a while, seing that I simply can't recall all of the techniques at once, my plan was just to remember this one - "next time you talk to someone, look the person in the eye!" was what I told myself.

Can someone help with this problem? How do I stop that switch from being thrown off automatically, letting my consciousness wither away while the autopilot is having a (lousy) conversation? How can I make an improvement in this area faster? This is not just a temporary problem - it's completely messing up my social life.

[Angela]

Does this happen with EVERYbody? Family, friends, strangers? Can you identify a key factor in a conversation that makes you go unconscious?

You might want to try inventing a specific possibility for your conversations -- like creating presence or love or affinity. If you are focusing on a positive intention for your conversations (instead of focusing on eye contact or trying not to go unconscious) that might give you more of a "will to live" in your communication.

You could practice with a trusted friend, tell her what you're doing and ask for your help. Chances are, your friends are affected by your deadness and would be glad to assist you in revitalizing your relationship.

(or you could get one of those little toys where you have a vibrator tucked away in a sensitive spot and you operate it with a remote control. Give your conversations a buzz!)

[Sourcerer]

It is the worst with strangers and people I don't know very well, and when I'm asked a question and need to respond promptly. The conversation with the former is lame to non-existent, as is my response in the latter.

With my friends and family it's not such a big problem. With them, even on autopilot I'm not a boring collocutor. But what I'm bothered by is the fact that I'm on autopilot. I can't direct the conversation as I know I could if I was in full awareness and control (of myself).

(or you could get one of those little toys where you have a vibrator tucked away in a sensitive spot and you operate it with a remote control. Give your conversations a buzz!)

I do hope this is just a bad joke...

[Angela]

So what do you think about my idea of dynamically focusing on what you're creating in the conversation (love, affinity) before and during your conversation, and practicing that with a friend?

(sorry you didn't like my remote control idea. It was just a thought. )

[Brutha]

Can you do something like scratching your ear, when you are in that state?
If you can do it and use it as a way to do something conscious.

A lot of people go into trance when they make a coversation but most still feel in control.

I would label every event that I remember as me being more of less in control. There are things that I don't remember where I don't consider myself in control but everything I remember feels controled by me.

Do you know whether you are an autist. Are you tested for such conditions?

[Sourcerer]

Well, in many of my recent conversations I can't say that I wanted to create love or affinity, as they were more or less business conversations.

But when I'm thinking of talking to my friend and having creating affinity on my mind, I can't help but think that this is too big a thing to start my improvement in this area with. That's why my starting steps were small - just look the person in the eye (is that too much to expect of myself?). I thought if I could just manage this, I would have a foothold in a conversation - a knowledge that I can be better at it if I just try enough - and it would enable me to try something more significant.

Perhaps if you explained how exactly your proposal should work, how my desire to create affinity should direct the course of the conversation, I might have a better idea. But as I said, I can't help but feel that going about it that way it just seems too big.

As for the buzzer thing... would I get the same effect if I just pinched myself when I started the conversation? Having a vibrator and a remote for it is just bizzare.

[Sourcerer]

Brutha, I can't say. I've never tried to do anything like it (scartching or similar).

I'm not an autist as far as I know. I've never been tested because there's never been any need. I'm normally quite clear in the head; it's when I start to communicate with others that I just shut off. But even if this could be classified as some psychological disorder, then my attempts to fix it are some form of curing myself? I must say I find the prospect of that rather exciting (not the disorder, but the self-curing... you know what I mean).

[dorothy hanna]

It sounds a little like an actual case of attention deficit disorder (ADD).
Have you mentioned any of this to your close family, or friends? Maybe they can help when they are around to bring you back.

[Sourcerer]

I've read the article on Wikipedia about ADD in adults and while I've identified several alleged symptoms listed there as existing in my case, or have existed, I don't think that that is really my problem. And even if it is, I'm not asking you to diagnose my "disease", I'm asking you how I can help myself to get out of the situation as a "victor". These are the self-improvement forums after all, right?

Unless I think it is absolutely necessary, I will not go running after doctors for every silly symptom of whatever disease (mental or physical). I have helped myself many times in the past and have overcome many defficiencies on my own (for example, I used to have trouble focusing on a book I was reading and I've done away with it; I used to be claustrophobic or something of the sort and I've done away with that too; I used to be afraid of the dark and now I sometimes even enjoy its cover, etc.). It took me some time to resolve my problems, but I eventually did, and as you can see, most of them were psychological.

I came here merely asking if someone has been in such situation and/or if someone knows a way of dealing with it. I will, no doubt, eventually find my own way because I'm constantly working on it, but any help from people who have experience with it will be welcome.

I'm certain that professionals would love to help me for a certain amount of cash, but to be honest, I don't take psychology as a science seriously. Not to go into much detail, I will only say that it is mainly because psychologists take Freud seriously. That said, I suspect there are very few psychologists in the world who can help me, if any.

[groove88]

Hi, bit busy to write a full reply to this but couldn't help but respond. Unfortuantely i can't come up with to much of a solution, but im writing because i posted something similiar about this myself. So in a nutshell, are you kinda of saying that during conversation you seem to switch off, unable to construct sentences, or find yourself carmly startled if that makes sense? Very surreal etc?

I think Dorthy has a point to some degree, because my lack of concentration is terrible to be honest. I get can things done and play chess well, but i certainly noticed my time against any opposition is usually slower than theirs lol. And im constantly taking breaks through the day just so i can sit there to zone out?? I mean what is that all about. I suffer Social Anxiety and i think a lot of this has been started down to the fact that i can't always communicate effectively

Have you looked towards diet for starters?

[Sourcerer]

groove88, I don't have concentration problems. My ability to concentrate and focus is just fine - EXCEPT in conversations. I can focus on a subject so deeply I can't hear what people are telling me. But when I enter the "conversation mode" it's like a shutter's down and there's no flow of information in or out of my conscious mind.

As I said, I'm somewhat halfway fighting this right now - I don't shut off completely for the entire duration of a conversation, and I manage to get myself to take conscious control of the conversation; but not always and not to the extent to which I would like. What I'm looking for here is not a diagnosis - I KNOW what's wrong. I'm looking for a "cure".

Edit: Oh, and ... what's the diet got to do with it? I'm wouldn't really believe you if you told me that the food I eat is messing with my conscious thought - with known exceptions (but those aren't foods).

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Sourcerer

Well, in many of my recent conversations I can't say that I wanted to create love or affinity, as they were more or less business conversations.

But when I'm thinking of talking to my friend and having creating affinity on my mind, I can't help but think that this is too big a thing to start my improvement in this area with. That's why my starting steps were small - just look the person in the eye (is that too much to expect of myself?). I thought if I could just manage this, I would have a foothold in a conversation - a knowledge that I can be better at it if I just try enough - and it would enable me to try something more significant.

Perhaps if you explained how exactly your proposal should work, how my desire to create affinity should direct the course of the conversation, I might have a better idea. But as I said, I can't help but feel that going about it that way it just seems too big.

As for the buzzer thing... would I get the same effect if I just pinched myself when I started the conversation? Having a vibrator and a remote for it is just bizzare.

Sourceror, every person in every conversation has an aim. What I am suggesting to you is that you align yourself with an aim that will inspire you -- it doesn't have to be love or affinity, although I think there are probably none better. What you could create could be "smaller" as you say, as long as it's a positive aim as opposed to the one that seems to be driving you now: "I have a serious problem -- my consciousness switches off during conversation."

A great way to approach an aim like affinity is to commit yourself to really getting what the other person has to say, and to let go of your little voice in your head as it comes up. To do this, listen from a point of view of "what does this person want to get by having this conversation?" When he says something, repeat back his point without interpreting or editing and ask him, "am I understanding you corrrectly?" Once he has assurred you that you understand what he's saying, then you have a free pathway to letting him know what you want to create in the conversation -- the micro-aim, I mean, not the affinity. For instance, maybe it's as simple as: you both want to make a profit on a particular transaction, and there's something getting in the way of that. What can we do so that we're both satisfied? Before you can really be present and get it worked out to the satisfaction of both, you both have to understand and be understood.

If you go "dead", you will neither understand nor be understood -- no affinity. If you focus on making sure you understand and are understood, you are generating affinity.

Generating love, that's the next step, but we'll talk about that later.

[Sourcerer]

Angela, do you know what it means to have your complete faculty of goal-directed thought totally shut down? From your post, I gather you don't.

I'd absolutely love to analyze other people's words as you said; but what I'm trying to get across is that I can't; not at this point. I just don't get to the point when I'm "really getting what the other person has to say", because that information - the words they've spoken - don't get to enter my conscious thought. In worst cases, I basically have no idea what they're talking about. More often, though, I get what they're talking about, but I'm having difficulty constructing an answer - because half my conscious brain is paralyzed.

As I said, in a conversation my brain just switches to autopilot - spitting out whatever answers are appropriate, non-insulting, etc. I remember once I was laughed at because I was manipulated, by not even very skilled a speaker, into saying something and then denying or contradicting it, within less than a minute. It was like my consciousness was on another planet or something; I never even figured out what the conversation was about.

I also said that I'm slowly making progress towards ... well ... not shutting down completely. At this point, I can keep enough focus when talking to someone to understand what the heck we are talking about, but then again, not enough to form an answer which I think is best. When I said I'm trying to at least look people in the eye, it was only the means - something simple to hold on to consciously - to stay there, instead of wandering off in my mind and letting the autopilot take over the conversation again.

An interesting thing is that this happens only in conversations. I never switch off like that in other things, except perhaps when I'm very tired.

[Angela]

It sounds like you're saying you have absolutely no control over your thoughts when you enter a conversation. You become a robot, and you have absolutely to ability to consciously direct your thoughts. If that is so, I believe that you are mentally ill and you would be wise to consult a health professional.

But I don't believe that that is so. I don't believe you are mentally ill. I think you do have the ability to control your thoughts, but you are fighting really hard to hold onto "I shut down during conversations." This whole thread has been about your fight to hold onto that thought.

You're welcome to do that, Sourceror, and to see what tiny improvements you can gain, bit by bit. Or, you can try on: consciously thinking thoughts that produce better results, and surrendering your self-limiting thoughts.

[Sourcerer]

Angela, first, my nickname is Sourcerer, not Sourceror.

Second, the reason why "[t]his whole thread has been about [my] fight to hold onto" "'I shut down during conversations'" is because I'm looking for a way to stop shutting down. And I don't know if that makes sense to you, but in order to get help, I need to describe my problem as it is - and that's the way it is.

I also note that you have no understanding of concept-formation. Concepts are formed from very simple ones, and then they are joined to form further concepts until at some point they become very abstract and can help handle enormous ideas. I think of my "tiny improvements" as those beginning concepts - very small and modest - but when I grasp them fully, I'll be able to build greater concepts... but I need to start somewhere! And it's far better to start with observation - concrete, simple, observable facts - than at some very abstract level that you suggested.

On a more general note, I've actively started to deal with this problem at about the same time I started this thread, so the conditions have changed now and I have some progress to report - if anyone cares to offer some help.

I'm still not able to bring all my knowledge into a conversation, so there's still some blockade, but I don't shut down completely either. I'm now mentally present in a conversation, at least partially (the initial shutdown still happens, but I recover quickly).

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Sourcerer

the reason why "[t]his whole thread has been about [my] fight to hold onto" "'I shut down during conversations'" is because I'm looking for a way to stop shutting down.

Right! Have you looked into the LoA concepts at all? These are concept-formations (larger concepts made up of smaller ones ) which suggest that what you resist persists -- that is, what you concentrate on is what you get more of. What I was suggesting to you here is that if, after your first post or two in which you described your situation, you had focused on where you want to go rather than where you are or where you have been -- then you would be following the concept-formation which I had in mind.

You asked me about this, Sourcerer (I'm very sorry I spelled your name wrong). I was not insisting you do what I say; my advice began with.... "you might try....". Your rather defensive & snarky response to what I had to say in answer to your request for help suggests to me that you are indeed in a state of resistance. Then again, I might be misreading you and if so, I'm sorry for that.

My suggestion to you stands. If you were to focus on what you want to create in a conversation, you could generate a large, all-at-once breakthrough for yourself. I'm not speaking of concepts at all; I'm speaking of something that you can't conceive of till you generate it -- a real breakthrough into a way of being that is not reached by way of understanding small concepts and putting them together to create larger concepts. In fact, it's not even about understanding. It's about being.

But again, you are under no obligation to take my advice, of course you know that. But you do have the power to, if you choose it.

[angelairene]

Hi,
I am seeing that this is a 3rd chakra problem. Something in the lungs. Something from childhood that caused you to feel like you had no room--couldnt breath.
I used to have a similar problem. I would start out talking about something I felt strongly about and then in mid thought, it would just dissappear. Leaving me to feel like a bit of an idiot. Like reading a poem I know by heart and freezing up just close to the end. It used to always happen.
I did some meditating on the problem and I finally heard the little voice inside of me saying "I know you are going to screw this up" etc.
I dont think the problem is so bad anymore, but I tend to live a rather secluded life these days.
I have never heard of a problem like yours, where you can continue to talk but just black out the details. Very interesting. Its like when you hurt yourself really bad, the body goes into shock and you dont feel the pain anymore. There seems to be something so painful for you that you have to "leave the room"
I will send you some Reiki.
Peace
Angie

[Sourcerer]

Hi, angelairene,

I think this switching off problem is more of a habit than pain. In childhood I lived in a big family, and we were all in the same house. Everyone used to blame me for everything, and my mother used to give me "lectures" afterwards... basically telling me how devious I'd been, even when I wasn't. They (the lectures) used to go on and on for half an hour or more, so eventually I just learned to phase out and while she was yapping, I'd be thinking about something else, while pretending to listen. This wasn't a problem then, but it is now when I'm trying to reach independence.

Anyway, thanks. What you said may not have been helpful per se, but it got me thinking about it from a different point of view, which may turn out to be helpful. I'll try to approach my switching off as a bad habit, and get rid of it as if it was a habit.

Regards,
Nikola

[groove88]

Originally Posted by Angela

Sourceror, every person in every conversation has an aim. What I am suggesting to you is that you align yourself with an aim that will inspire you -- it doesn't have to be love or affinity, although I think there are probably none better. What you could create could be "smaller" as you say, as long as it's a positive aim as opposed to the one that seems to be driving you now: "I have a serious problem -- my consciousness switches off during conversation."

A great way to approach an aim like affinity is to commit yourself to really getting what the other person has to say, and to let go of your little voice in your head as it comes up. To do this, listen from a point of view of "what does this person want to get by having this conversation?" When he says something, repeat back his point without interpreting or editing and ask him, "am I understanding you corrrectly?" Once he has assurred you that you understand what he's saying, then you have a free pathway to letting him know what you want to create in the conversation -- the micro-aim, I mean, not the affinity. For instance, maybe it's as simple as: you both want to make a profit on a particular transaction, and there's something getting in the way of that. What can we do so that we're both satisfied? Before you can really be present and get it worked out to the satisfaction of both, you both have to understand and be understood.

If you go "dead", you will neither understand nor be understood -- no affinity. If you focus on making sure you understand and are understood, you are generating affinity.

Generating love, that's the next step, but we'll talk about that later.

Nice one Angela, solid advice here which i used today. Thanks

[Angela]

Originally Posted by groove88

Nice one Angela, solid advice here which i used today. Thanks

well, THAT's good news on a bad day. thanks.

[Sourcerer]

Angela, LoA as in "Leave of Absence"? Is this supposed to be a joke? I'm absent enough during my conversations, thank you very much.

But I'm not inclined to believe that you meant that to be funny. If from my replies you gathered that I'm being defensive, well, that's not really what I was hoping to achieve. I was just saying that "that's not it", in hopes that someone, yourself and myself included, would come up with something better. Sorry if I've dragged you into a discussion you didn't want to have by this. That was not my intention. But I don't understand why you thought my responses were snarky; all I ever did in response to you was to explain my problem in a little more detail.

You said:

If you were to focus on what you want to create in a conversation [...]

(Added emphasis.) But focus is exactly my problem, can't you see? I'm not asking here how to have a nice conversation - I'm asking how not to unfocus. How to prevent that switch I introduced earlier from being thrown off?

Hmm, you know, I think you did give me a new perspective as well. I've just identified the difference - in more essential terms - between conversations during which I unfocus and when I stay focused, and the latter has a great deal to do with what you were suggesting, I think. I'll have to think on this for a bit more, but while I'm thinking, perhaps, if you're willing, you can answer me a little sub-question: Suppose I'm not the one starting the conversation; suppose it's a person who's a stranger to me; or someone I scarcely know and was never really interested in knowing very well (or make a summary for all of the above). My question is: what should my goal (or aim; whatever you call it) be in such conversations?

[Angela]

Hey, Sourcerer, LoA = Law of Attraction. I'm surprised you haven't seen that -- it's a big topic of conversation around here!

To answer your question, I'm not sure what aim would inspire you, but creating love and affinity in conversations inspires me. Is there some other quality or condition that, in a perfect world, you would like to have present in every conversation? that would be the big aim.

For the more immediate (or little) aim, is there something you would like to create in your more mundane conversations, like "a small connection" or "a spark of recognition" or just "relatedness"? I mean, something that's been missing in your "little" conversations so far, something that would make a difference in your life if you practiced it in this small way?

For me in my "little" conversations sometimes, I'm confronted by my desire NOT to hear what others have to say. The little voice in my head is sometimes very "shut up!" to the world. So my practice is generating Being Accepting. That's not always easy. Sometimes it bugs the bujeezus out of me. But I think it's good for me to keep generating that, as a practice of creating something that works better for my life.

Is there something like that for you? A quality or condition that would make a difference if it was present?

[dennis08]

Sometimes people R boring so I tend to space out to. Its ok we all do it

[Sourcerer]

Hi, Angela.

I've read about Law of Attraction on Steve Pavlina's site a while ago. I'm fairly new to the forums (I've been active here only since I started this thread, if you don't count my introduction as activity) and I've never seen the abbreviation, hence my confusion with Leave of Absence.

I can see how the prospect of having such an aim in every conversation can work; as having your conversations be the processes of creating a value. I can also see that before I can use this, I need to do some serious amount of thinking in order to figure out what exactly I want; what values do I want to generate. Right now, I've no idea. I've been seeking friendship for a while now (outside my current circle of friends), but I don't think I can aim for that value in a conversation with someone who doesn't represent a value to me as they are. Something cannot be created out of nothing. Am I getting this right?

Anyway, thanks for the help. This, I think, is the logical next step after merely observing my conversations and thanks for enabling me to make it with full awareness of what I am doing. Not many people get the chance to do this.

Cheers,
Nikola

[Sourcerer]

Hehe, dennis, yeah I know. I should know as I turned "spacing out" into a habit because of such people.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Sourcerer

I've been seeking friendship for a while now (outside my current circle of friends), but I don't think I can aim for that value in a conversation with someone who doesn't represent a value to me as they are. Something cannot be created out of nothing. Am I getting this right?

Well, the way I see it, something can ONLY be created out of nothing. If you are trying to create something out of something, then the old something gets mixed up with the new something and you're combining rather than creating.

If you want to create something brand spankin' new, something that will be new and different in your life, you don't have to require that certain circumstances exist first -- like the person representing value or even that they're interesting to you! You are free to create and generate a quality, all on your own, no ingredients or pre-existing conditions necessary.

I think your plan to determine your most treasured values is a wonderful one (there's a great values list & calculator on Steve's site -- I used it; it was fun and very enlightening for me!). It sounds to me like you would like to generate friendship and/or connection in your conversations. That might be scary, because you don't necessarily want to be friends with everyone who crosses your path! However, if you generate connection in your conversations, or relatedness, (or something else that is aligned with your highest values), you can practice generating WITH EVERYBODY YOU COME ACROSS the very quality that will lead you to what you want -- for instance, friendship with a special few, or intimacy, or whatever it is you want.

My feeling is that if you want a quality in your own life, that quality is a fabulous and valuable thing for the world, and you are to be commended for creating it. It's not just for you; it's for everybody (even if it feels like only you are experiencing it). So, thank you!

Lots of love,
Angela

[Sourcerer]

It sounds to me like you would like to generate friendship and/or connection in your conversations. That might be scary, because you don't necessarily want to be friends with everyone who crosses your path!

No, that's exactly what I'm not saying. Frankly, I don't want to be friends with everyone. I only want to be friends with people who have in abundance that which I long for seing in another, so I hope I have something to offer in return. Friendship is an exchange of values; if two people have nothing to offer each other, then friendship cannot exist.

As for the principle "something can ONLY be created out of nothing", well, good luck trying to bake a loaf of bread by following it.

[Angela]

Sourcerer, I get that you don't want to be friends with everyone, just a select few. What I was suggesting is that you DO want friendship (within the limitations you stated), and a way to get what you want is to generate a quality that inspires you -- one that is aligned with your values (maybe: connection) with everyone you come across. That means you are practicing generating the quality all over your life that will attract those people who have the particular qualities you want in a friend.

If you are being the quality you want to find in another (e.g. "abundance of value that you long to find" in a potential friend) by the law of attraction, you are guaranteed to attract it in others! If you are being not-present, unfriendly, not-listening, chances are that you will attract more of the same.

Speaking of listening! When I spoke of creating something out of nothing, I was speaking of qualities -- ways of being. Not cakes. The ingredients for cooking up a way of being are not the same as for cooking up food. Perhaps you were listening, but just joking.

[Tuumble]

I recognised some of what you said in your opening post in myself as I have absenses mostly during conversations with people.

I talked about it in this thread and here too.

I don't want to scare you but does this feel similar to you?

If so you maybe ought to check it out especially if you drive.

[Sourcerer]

Nope, I'm not epileptic, and I'm a very good driver.