Helping vs. Saving Others

[geekchic9]

When I first read about polarizing, I figured that it would be an easy decision. I've been helping people all of my life, so lightworking would be a perfect fit.

Now I realize that not only do I want to help people, I want to save people from themselves, and that I can't do that. I can only save myself, and others can only save themselves. For example: I cannot save my mother from her undiagnosed bipolar disorder, I cannot save my old mathematician friend from his drug addiction, and so on. I can only save myself from my own problems.

So, my questions are these: What is the difference between helping others and saving others; and can I still be a lightworker while focusing on only saving myself, or is that strictly darkworker territory?

[ethereal]

The difference between helping and saving is very subtle. In reality, there is no difference, if you knew what was really in their highest good. Then perhaps, the best way to save them is to let them hit bottom, do you know what I mean?

We don't really know what is going on with their karma, with their life lesson, and so trying to save them might be interfering with their learning and delaying their progress. As limited human beings, we just don't really know, and it's presumptuous to think that we know what is best for them.

I guess the difference is how appropriate it is, and whether it's based on truly loving them or based on trying to control them (even if it's "for their own good"). All we can do is provide them the best opportunity for them to save themselves, and if they refuse it, what else can you do? I usually take that as a sign from the universe, "Don't mess with this, it's God's problem now." People earn their own karmic merit by their own decisions to save themselves, and if we save them instead, we're robbing them of that karmic opportunity and lesson.

As for lightworking and darkworking, I think we should just scrap the two terms and replace it with loveworking and fearworking. I just posted that idea on the thread here:

Lightworker vs Darkworker labels are a sham

[Angela]

Saving people from themselves implies that there is something evil, harmful or dangerous about the person that you are powerful enough to counteract, but they themselves are not.

That would be presumptuous, invasive, and condescending, not to mention incredibly insulting! It would mean that you don't trust the person to follow their own path in life, and that you consider yourself to be superior in judgement and action. Yeeechhhh!

Helping someone, on the other hand, when it is either requested or generously offered without attachment, means that you are engaging with that person for the growth of you both; freedom, communication, and love are then present.

Of course I'm not talking about rescuing a person who is unable to consent to your help -- because she's drowning, or has passed out, or has Alzheimer's -- I'm speaking of trying to rescue people from their own CHOICES. In that regard, I'm totally against interventions for adult addicts and alcoholics (but I'm not against the natural consequences of their choices and actions.) Your mom and her illness it's hard to say without knowing more, but it sounds like you might be making some judgements there. Well, you ARE making judgements, unless you have medical/psychiatric training, in which case you may be making a qualified evaluation.

Even when it comes to yourself, you wouldn't be saving yourself from yourself (which would again imply that you're judging a part of yourself evil, harmful, or dangerous), but you could remove yourself from an evil, harmful, or dangerous situation, habit, or way of being. There is no need to identify with evil, harm, or danger. That is not Who You Are.

So push only yourself for growth. Love others enough to give them the freedom to be exactly who they are and exactly who they are not, and allow them to either accept your help or not, without judgement. Natural consequences of your own evaluation might mean you must remove yourself from their lives, however, in order to protect yourself from a dangerous or harmful situation.

Best wishes.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Angela

Love others enough to give them the freedom to be exactly who they are and exactly who they are not...

That is a fantastic post Angela... I just love it...
.

[Angela]

Thanks, Shamou. It's hard, I know, because we so want our loved ones to be happy, safe, satisfied and fulfilled, and we're so convinced that we know what's right for them. Dagnabit.

[geekchic9]

Originally Posted by Angela

Your mom and her illness it's hard to say without knowing more, but it sounds like you might be making some judgements there. Well, you ARE making judgements, unless you have medical/psychiatric training, in which case you may be making a qualified evaluation.

I also suffer from bipolar disorder (except mine has turned from self-diagnosed to actually diagnosed by a professional.) I have "bipolar-dar." It's like "gaydar", except that I can easily tell who has bipolar disorder and who doesn't. Most people who accept that they have this type of mental illness have this sort of radar, at least the many over the years that I've talked to about it.

Even when it comes to yourself, you wouldn't be saving yourself from yourself (which would again imply that you're judging a part of yourself evil, harmful, or dangerous), but you could remove yourself from an evil, harmful, or dangerous situation, habit, or way of being. There is no need to identify with evil, harm, or danger. That is not Who You Are.

I feel intuitively that this is true, but emotionally I am not there yet. I have been very self-destructive in the past, and it's hard not to identify with that.

So push only yourself for growth. Love others enough to give them the freedom to be exactly who they are and exactly who they are not, and allow them to either accept your help or not, without judgement. Natural consequences of your own evaluation might mean you must remove yourself from their lives, however, in order to protect yourself from a dangerous or harmful situation.

That's a tall order, but I am up to the challenge.

Thank you! Great post.

[Angela]

Bipolar-dar -- very funny! I can see where you would recognize those symptoms in others. Are you able to be compassionate when someone is bipolaring all over you? Or do you think you get as reactive as any non-bipolar person?

Although you may find it hard to REALize for yourself, who you are is perfect, whole, and complete. There is nothing wrong about you. When you get the feeling that there's a part of you that is dangerous or harmful or evil, you're buying into an illusion. I know, it's hard to *get* that and really internalize the perfection that is you.

I wonder if the concept of being bipolar contributes to this sense of a separate self -- like you're encouraged to believe that there's a "good you" and a "bad you", constantly at war with each other?

[geekchic9]

I was listening to Pandora on my Metallica station, and the perfect song for this thread came up:

"Holier Than Thou"

No more!
The crap rolls out your mouth again
Haven't changed, your brain is still gelatin
Little whispers circle around your head
Why don't you worry about yourself instead

Who are you? where ya been? where ya from?
Gossip burning on the tip of your tongue
You lie so much you believe yourself
Judge not lest ye be judged yourself

Holier than thou
You are
Holier than thou
You are

You know not

Before you judge me take a look at you
Can't you find something better to do
Point the finger, slow to understand
Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

It's not who you are it's who you know
Others lives are the basis of your own
Burn your bridges build them back with wealth
Judge not lest ye be judged yourself

Holier than thou
You are
Holier than thou
You are

You know not

Yeah who the hell are you?
Hey yo

Holier than thou
You are
Holier than thou
You are

You know not

Not

[geekchic9]

Originally Posted by Angela

Bipolar-dar -- very funny! I can see where you would recognize those symptoms in others. Are you able to be compassionate when someone is bipolaring all over you? Or do you think you get as reactive as any non-bipolar person?

It varies between compassion for their suffering and frustration that they don't acknowledge the problem that is so clear to me. It's thrilling when a person finally realizes they need help and go for it. I lead a support group filled with that type of people.

Although you may find it hard to REALize for yourself, who you are is perfect, whole, and complete. There is nothing wrong about you. When you get the feeling that there's a part of you that is dangerous or harmful or evil, you're buying into an illusion. I know, it's hard to *get* that and really internalize the perfection that is you.

I knew this as a child, but it's hard to understand it now, after all the self-destructiveness I've been through. Also, does this mean that everyone is inherently good, or just some people? I came from a Catholic background, and my old religion influences me to this day, despite the fact that I do not practice Catholicism any more.

I wonder if the concept of being bipolar contributes to this sense of a separate self -- like you're encouraged to believe that there's a "good you" and a "bad you", constantly at war with each other?

Sometimes I feel exactly as you describe. There's a 'healthy' me and a 'diseased' me. Usually, the 'healthy' me prevails, but when it doesn't, havoc ensues.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by geekchic9

II knew this as a child, but it's hard to understand it now, after all the self-destructiveness I've been through. Also, does this mean that everyone is inherently good, or just some people? I came from a Catholic background, and my old religion influences me to this day, despite the fact that I do not practice Catholicism any more.

I don't like to say anyone is "good" because it implies judgement, just like calling someone "bad". Who are we to be judging? What we do well is evaluate, which is something else altogether; in my evaluation, everyone is perfect, whole, and complete. There is nothing "wrong" with any person. You may make choices I (or you!) don't like; you might have an illness; you might smoke in public ; none of that means there is anything wrong with you; none of that means you are "bad". Who you are is perfect, whole, and complete. There is nothing you can do or think to change that.

That Catholic upbringing -- tell me about it, hooboy. Hard to shake, isn't it?!

Originally Posted by geekchic9

Sometimes I feel exactly as you describe. There's a 'healthy' me and a 'diseased' me. Usually, the 'healthy' me prevails, but when it doesn't, havoc ensues.

That must be very difficult, like being at conflict all the time. Do you think it's possible for you to reconcile and feel complete? What would it take?

[geekchic9]

Originally Posted by Angela

Who you are is perfect, whole, and complete. There is nothing you can do or think to change that.

I like that quote a lot. I think I will post it up on my wall.

Originally Posted by Angela

That must be very difficult, like being at conflict all the time. Do you think it's possible for you to reconcile and feel complete? What would it take?

Well, I've noticed that 'diseased' me and my ego are often one and the same. My ego judges other people as 'better' or 'worse' than me, and 'diseased' me starts creating symptoms of bipolar disorder at the same time. Then I think that if I somehow 'save' these 'worse' people, I will somehow 'save' myself. It's a pretty convoluted and circular way of thinking, an energy-wasting infinite loop of negativity.

I haven't been able to reconcile the two mes, but I have found ways to circumvent 'diseased' me: medication, the Belief Paraliminal CD, therapy, and support groups.

[Angela]

I think your being aware of all that is great. Just shining a light on it dissipates its power over you.

Best wishes to you, and lots of love.

[Amandaaa]

geekchic-

i know exactlyyyy what you mean...

i'm the same way with girls who have eating disorders. (or self-injury, or other mental disorders). ...it's hard for me not to try to swoop in and "save" them, especially when i can see that they don't have the ability to think clearly right now. they're so confused and distressed, it's almost like they're possessed. ..so i have this tendency to want to "fix" everything for them, and save them from the chaos...
but i realize now that it's useless. everyone has to learn for themselves. people with mental disorders have to learn the hard way... no one can change until they're ready.

i don't think it's really possible to "save" anyone but yourself. all you can do is be supportive and loving and endlessly patient. and "helping" someone is a better approach, because it's a lot more subtle than trying to "save" them.
you could help someone simply by saying something that challenges them to think outside the box. you can help them by being a source of comfort, and giving them positive advice that encourages change.

but if someone is in a "dark" state of mind, they don't like people telling them what to do, or pushing them around... so all you can do is try to inspire them. they don't want someone forcing them to do something... all they really need is a moment of clarity and hope-- and that's what you can try to give them.