Quitting Graduate School

[Alex Wu]

Hey Everyone,

Starting Monday morning, I'm slated to become a graduate student taking a Ph.D. in Economics. I don't really want to do it - I got into the program because it was an easy, secure path out of my undergraduate degree.

Quitting isn't going to be easy, even though I know that in the long run I will be happier I did it. It's like a job - it provides the income that I live off of. My scholarships pay the rent, car payments, groceries, etc. Not having the income could cause financial ruin, whatever that means.

I was going to go ahead and get into this program, but Steve's latest article, "Life Sucks, then you die" sort of gave me a tip in the other direction. This is exactly why my life sucks. I've been treating it as something I have to get through alive rather than something that I actively create and enjoy. I've been doing things because they're practical and secure. I cannot say I have any genuine interest in graduate school. But I'm not sure I'm prepared for the possibly disastrous consequences of leaving. Deep down, I have a feeling for what I'd do if I did leave graduate school - go back to my hometown of Calgary, get a job (because of the oil boom there even a menial job pays a decent wage), do lots of yoga (I'm thinking of eventually becoming a teacher), join 2-3 Toastmasters clubs (I love doing speeches) - and eventually, find my life purpose. I could do the same once graduate school is over (I can leave after 1 year with a Master's degree). On the other hand, that's one more year of suffering through something I have no interest in doing.

Has anyone else had an experience leaving a similar situation?

[justfiverules]

Hi Alex,

Was just about to call it a night here after mentioning Anthony De Mello on another thread, and came across your post.

Here's some classic De Mello material just for you!
Articles

[Jason S]

Alex--

I think the question you may want to ask yourself isn't so much "Should I quit grad school or not," it's "Am I approaching this decision in the right way?"

First, you're one year away from a Master's degree, which could potentially open up lots of doors for you, and you're certainly able to do yoga and Toastmaster's on a student's schedule (and budget).

Secondly, I've found that good stuff usually comes when I'm working/achieving/succeeding. Even when I've been heading in the "wrong" direction, I've found that action begets action, and it's much easier to collect opportunities while you're in motion. Continuing toward your degree is action and motion. Quitting for a menial job is neither!

Plus, I have to wonder: would you be much happier once back in Calgary?How will you feel during that job interview when you try to explain why you quit school before even starting? As an employer, I'd have to wonder: does this person lack direction? Determination and perseverence? Decisiveness? I imagine you might even start wondering the same things about yourself, too... which, if you did, could put you in a negative mindset at least as bad as the one you seem to be in now.

So, why quit? Why not simply add those things you're looking to do to your current schedule? I got great advice when I graduated college, which was this: forget the next few years. They don't count. Whatever you do, you'll be a rookie. Happy or miserable, you'll get through the first year or two, turn around, and say to yourself, "What was I thinking?!" But here's the catch: fill your time as best you can. As badly as you might feel like you want to start over, like you've made a mistake, DON'T QUIT. Give it your best shot, have fun, laugh at yourself, and get through it. Just keep in mind that you only want to be a rookie once.

[Alex Wu]

Hey Jason and Mark,

Thanks for replying!

Mark - the de Mello material is very helpful.

Jason - I was taken aback when you mentioned I was in a very negative mindset because indeed I was and didn't realise it, which isn't good for manifesting anything positive.

[Jason S]

Alex, I'd like to clarify where my comment about a negative frame came from... most of it came from the last paragraph of your post... note the extreme language and the repeated negative framing: "exactly why my life sucks" (I know that one came from Steve's post, but hang on...) "something I have to get through alive" "I cannot say I have any genuine interest" "possibly disastrous consequences" and "suffering through something I have no interest in". It's not so much what you're describing as it is *how* you choose to describe it that was the tip to the negative frame.

Also, note how the alternative to school is not well-defined... there is a running away from something concrete (school), but not a running toward anything in particular. There is an "eventual" finding of a life purpose, but other than an unspecified job, a club, and yoga, there's no real plan. This struck me as pain-avoidance behavior as opposed to pleasure-seeking; ie, action framed in the negative.

These were the things that--in the aggregate--stood out to me and suggested that you are in a negative frame. I certainly would not be offended if you disagree, and I certainly didn't mean to take you aback! There are specific things I look for when assessing potential coaching clients, and I thought I noticed some of those cues--namely the ones mentioned above--in your post.

Please, I hope this helps. I'd encourage you to consider that there might be some negativity hiding "in plain sight" in your subconsciousness right now... and also please consider that my conclusions may be due to an overzealous reading of a single paragraph of yours!

[JimC]

I kind of agree with Jason. I think you are being too hard on your situation; furthermore, you have worked long and hard to get to wear you are and I think it would be good to finish it up. You will be proud in the future and you may find yourself discovering new and interesting branches of economics. You could also combine that knowledge with a massive amount of other subjects that may interest you.

Education is never a risk and it can only result in positivity. Steve hated work, but he still went to school. I hate work, but I will finish school. Hopefully you will do the same. If you must quit, at least don't plan to never go to college again if you have that choice.

That's my bias opinion at least.

[Shamou]

Happiness and contentment depend very little on outside influences... it is a state of mind...

If you cannot feel good where you are right now... you won't feel any better anywhere else... things don't change... we do...

I have seen happy crippled and not well endowed people... and I have seen many so called successful and rich people who eventually committed suicide...

We all have personal rules on what we need to be happy... so, if you are not happy... don't go somewhere else... change your personal rule on what it takes to make you happy...
.

[Alex Wu]

Wow, I am impressed Jason at your analysis, in fact it's very insightful. I am in a situation I don't really like, but you're right, there is no "real" alternative that I can articulate, but only the feeling, coming from the gut, that a venture into the uncertain and unknown might be good for me. And then as Steve mentions that if there is something in your life making you unhappy, you should toss it - well, it sharpened the image in my mind of "rebooting" my life, so to speak.

Jim - When does education cease being a positive thing? A lot of people I know go to school for very good reasons. I have also seen people at university who are here because they're not sure what else to do. The way Steve went to college, because he knew he was very interested in computer science (and wanted to do it so badly he did it in 3 terms), is different from the way most people approach it.

[ethereal]

From my own experiences of running away from home, finishing school early, etc., I realized that many times we are making our decisions as a reaction to circumstances, and not as a fully conscious being using free choice. That usually doesn't fix anything, because the source of the problem is still there, coming from within and not without.

I suggest to first do some inner work and let go of all attachments and aversions, and then make your decision once your mind is completely clear. Your decisions then come from a position of Love, for new circumstances, for freedom, for the next step in your life, rather than from a position of fear or anger or running away from something. Or perhaps you realize that graduate school is the way to go after all, I don't know. But at that point you will know the right decision, when you're completely at peace with either choice and then you decide.

Anyway, don't stress out about it As you keep developing and becoming more conscious, life almost forces you to make the right decision whether you're willing to or not So just sit back and enjoy the ride

[thehexman]

I'm an undergraduate student in mech. eng., a really tough field. The decision to go there is not one I made actively, but rather because of lack of options at the time (another story). I think about quitting every day, but I am also learning a lot of things I would never have learned if I had quit early. Among these are: knowing what it's like working in a job that you really hate, self-discipline to undertake the most unpleasant projects, working with unpleasant people, being powerless against raging and mean professors etc. So try looking at it as a thing to do that helps you grow as well, and thus also has some positive aspects. I'm sure you can find these aspects. This point of view has really helped me a lot.

[catnip]

Hi Alex

I don't have any expert advice for you, but can share my own experience.

I am 5 years into a humanities PhD (3 years full time, and the last 2 years part time, in conjuction with full time paid work). When I began I was in a very similar situation to you; it seemed an attractive option because it seemed easy (I sailed through my undergrad degree and was encouraged by my professors to stay on), and I had funding that covered my living expenses. Yet even at the time, I knew my heart wasn't really in it, and that my interest in the subject wasn't nearly as strong as it should have been. But I wasn't sure what else to do, so I went ahead with it.

I spent the following 5 years feeling totally miserable. I got some work done, but had to force myself along. It was like wading through treacle - every day was a huge effort, and it was definitely not fun, or even especially rewarding. And then I'd go through periods of procrastination, where I did nothing at all, but I didn't enjoy this 'time off', because at the back of my mind I was feeling guilty for not working. At first I thought it would get easier, but the opposite proved to be true - with each passing year I became more disillusioned and frustrated with myself and my life. It wasn't that I wasn't capable of working to the required standard (I have no problem in that respect); it's that the passion for the subject just isn't there, and I'm unable and unwilling to force myself to fake it (I tried that in the early years!), and I really don't buy into the idea that suffering (especially self-inflicted suffering) is essential or even useful for personal growth. So finally, last month, I decided to quit, even though I would complete my doctorate next year if I carry on. But just the thought of another year of this feels unbearable. Instead I've decided to submit for an MPhil, and then get out for good.

Making this decision wasn't easy. Unlike many grad students, I've benefited from an extremely supportive environment (a fantastic advisor, a friendly department with very little of the 'politicking' that often goes on in universities, financial support etc). Ironically, all of these positive factors have made it harder for me to quit, as for a long time I felt like I should justify all the support I've received by carrying on to completion, and it's taken this long to realise that the price is too high. Since I've decided to leave after getting an MPhil, it feels like a huge weight has been lifted - there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I'm getting my life back at last.

It's not in my nature to have regrets, but I should never have begun this course in the first place. I take full responsibility for all my decisions along the way, but I should have got out much sooner, rather than taking the path of least resistance. I'd hate for someone who is contemplating a similar course of action to make the same mistakes, and would only recommend doing a PhD if you can honestly say that you're totally passionate about your subject, and are willing to eat, breathe and live it for the three or (probably) more years it'll take to complete. Don't do it because it feels like an easy option (it's anything but - the workload is huge), or because you're not sure what else to do. And as for your financial situation, you can get a job to tide you over while you're thinking about what you really want to be doing with your life. And you can always go back to grad school at some later point in your life, if you decide that you really want to do that - it's not like this is the only chance you'll ever get.

Regarding just doing the MA - that could be a good idea if you have a career in mind that it would be useful (or essential) for, but if not, why put yourself through it when your heart's not in it? Sure a year isn't a long time, but it's still a year of your life which could be spent doing other things that you enjoy more. These days I do know where my true calling lies, so that has made it a little easier. I'm sure you'll find yours soon enough too!

I'm not saying don't go - only you can decide that. But realise that if you go, and you're not enjoying it, it gets harder to leave the longer you stay. And life really is too short to do things you're not passionate about. There's no shame in quitting, when you're on a path that is wrong for you.

[Stu]

In parallel to what a few others have said, I believe in having somewhere to jump to before jumping. It may be a cautious way to go about things, but youve got to pay the bills somehow, and as Jason S said, toastmasters, school, and yoga are not mutually exclusive things.

I think ultimately it comes down to whether or not a menial job in calgary is going to make you happier than school? Yoga and toastmasters can be done around either school or a menial job, so which of those do you want to do more? Also, you have to keep in mind that school is a good back-up option, a job at the local department store isnt (for most people at least).

[falcan]

From a college drop-out I left college and didn't regret it, I'm so much happier 3 years after. BUT I had a plan where I wanted to get and I believed I had possesed the skills(to make not so bad money in the meantime, to survive before I setup my business...). Anyway, the school was depression for me(learning what I didn't like, where I wasn't good at too), what I'm doing now is the exact opposite. I was thinking at that time about leaving for ~3-4 months before I did it.
But, if you don't have something close to clear plan and faith that you will make it happen(and some skills to make it happen), finish the school better.

[Alex Wu]

@Catnip:

Thanks for that - I was hoping someone who'd done graduate school without their heart in it would say something about their experience. I feel exactly the way you did - that with the professors and department treating me as well as they do, and with the money they and the government are investing in me, I should do something to earn it. Thanks also for sharing the honest truth about how you felt while doing a PhD, and that leaving the program made you feel better.

@Stu/falcan

You guys might find this rather interesting. I asked my mother for a psychic reading. She came up with something like this... "You are stuck in a mud hole right now. You don't want to be there, it's not pleasant, but if you leave, you will expose yourself to great danger. Whatever it is you are thinking, don't proceed with it just yet, as the further you go, the closer you come to the danger. If you stay where you are, you will be safe for now. You must wait for the right opportunity to come, then get out."

I realised that graduate school is my mud hole. I don't like it, but it's not the right time to jump ship. I have doubts that I still stay longer than the 8 months required to get a master's degree, and I will be constantly on the look out for the opportunity. In the meantime, I realised that deep down, I'm a teacher. People have been telling me that for years, but it took this long for it to sink in. I don't know exactly what I should be teaching (piano? yoga? math?), but it's exciting to be discovering who I am.

Thanks everyone for your answers. Catnip, it is extremely helpful to hear from a former graduate student - I hope you're enjoying what you're doing now a lot more than school!

Stu & Falcan, thanks too for your insights... it's not time to go yet.

[catnip]

I'm glad you've reached a decision Alex, and realised what it is you really like doing. The 'mud hole' analogy is a good one, and I know what you mean about feeling like it's not the right time to leave. There is no point forcing things if the timing isn't right. I'm sure the next year will pass quickly for you, and you'll attract new opportunities that are related to your real interests.

[Enlightenment]

Hi Alex,

I hope I'm not too late in posting this reply. I did my undergrad at UofT, then I went on to grad school in Europe. It is weird because I was doing what I thought I had always wanted to do. I based my self worth on my education, or level of education, when I should have looked at my real talents. I got so sick of academics that one day I just opened a word document and started writing a screenplay. I didn't know what the hell I was doing, I just started. However, I have to say that without my education I would have never had the access to the information on which my screenplay was based. I wouldn't have had the knowledge to actually write it well, nor would I have the discipline to finish it and shop it around. You learn a lot in University, but I read that a PhD, unless you plan to go into that field, is basically useless in real life.... which is your life after all.

It came to be that I just couldn't take it, and I knew I wasn't lazy, I just felt in my soul that it just wasn't the way for me to pursue grad school. I'm not sure what you should do. Some people may stay in school and be practical, some may say do what you feel. I go with the latter, because in the end, no one can live your life for you and you just end up blaming other people for 'stopping' you from achieving your dreams if you don't do what you feel.

All I can say is, grad school was miserable for me. I felt out of place and like I should be doing something else, like pursuing my purpose in life. To me that was to influence more people through creative writing than any academic writing could have.

You may ask, 'What is my purpose?' Well, I looked back at what I have always been good at in school. I narrowed it down to subjects I always enjoyed and excelled at even without much effort; and that was art and creative writing. I do have a very lively imagination! Art wasn't exactly the best living, so that was out. I thought of writing a book, but then realised that, sadly, not too many people read these days. So, I thought a film would touch more people. And that's how I came about writing a screenplay. It is hardwork but I think it will pay off in many, many ways.

I hope the best for you. Imagine yourself on your deathbed, is there something you have always wanted to do but didn't. If there is, then go out and do it now, while you can! Good luck and God bless.

E

[Alex Wu]

Hey Enlightenment,

You're the second person to reply to this thread who's gone through with grad school and... and you haven't liked it. Like you, I don't feel like I quite fit in with everyone. It's nice being with young people but I don't feel the same level of receptiveness to the material as my classmates. To some degree or another they are aiming for careers as economists... I'm not. To that degree, it makes coursework doubly taxing, since the material isn't easy but furthermore, there isn't much motivation on my part to do it.

Classes started today and I felt sick not long after we jumped into the material. It would be much easier if I was motivated... but that's another story. I don't know really what good is coming of this, especially since I feel horrible. Can this be the right thing to do?

[Enlightenment]

Hi Alex,

I see you're at UWO. That is large school and has many diverse programs. Could you supplement your degree in economics or commerce with more exciting and interesting courses, like art history, or physics, or drama even? These are just suggestions, of course. Even though grad school doesn't really allow for much diversity outside of the program itself, you can find your calling, so to speak, in the odd course here and there. It will also take away some of the pressure and boredom of economics!
However, if you get to feeling absolutely sick and stressed every single class you go to, then you have to think about looking for something else to do. Like I said, think of what you liked and excelled at as a child. It sounds too simple, but it really works.
Keep us updated!
E

[Tasaio]

Why don't you take a break?

I was in a similar position. I hated where I was, and couldn't see myself going through.

What I can finally admit to myself...is that it took far more courage to stop than it would have to continue.

If, in a year's time, you don't want to go back, then you still have your dregree. You're already ahead of many people out there.

Ask yourself this: Is there a project that's constantly on your mind? Like, is there a book you've always wanted to read, or a movie you always wanted to see?

Take some time to fulfill a list of 'to-do' projects, expand your horizons, and relax. It sounds like you've just worn yourself out.

You already got in to the program...believe me, you aren't the first person to take a year off, no matter what people tell you.

Good luck!

[zeloc]

I am in the fourth year of a graduate degree program. I have had to work incredibly hard over the past 3 years. I have hardly had a night or weekend off during these past 3 years. Right now I think it would be terrific to just have a regular 9-5 job, even 8-5 job, and to have nights off and 4 weekends off a month! That would be totally incredible to me. If I had known what I now know, I would never have entered this program in the first place. Right now I am at the most stressful time of the program so far. It didn't get easier with the years. I am interested in economics and if I could have entered or be doing a Ph.D. program in economics right now I think that it would be amazing! Economics is such an interesting subject.

In a couple years once I have my degree am I going to look back and say, it was difficult, but it was worth it? I don't know. I really don't know. My education is certainly going to create opportunities that I wouldn't have had if I didn't do it, but there are many more easier ways I could have gone, easier not because I would have been working fewer hours (although I would have) or because the material is less intellectually demanding, but easier because I would have been able to study something I was truly interested in and really get to use the talents that I possess. I'm tired of getting out at 6-7pm and having a couple hours to work on career related stuff before going to bed and waking up sleep deprived to put in a bunch more hours.

I disagree with everyone in this thread who has said that education is never wasted and that you should continue to do your PhD just for the sake of doing it, and that even if you don't do it its only a year to get your master's. Life is precious and a year is too long to waste on something you're not interested in. On the other hand, maybe my appreciation of time is distorted because I have so little free time right now and for the past several years.

I think the problem in your situation is not whether to get your PhD or not. The real issue is for you to decide what you want to achieve. You have to come up with something specific and exciting and something you are interested in, because your description of going back to Calgary and getting a job doesn't really sound like its particularly motivating to you. Until you figure out what you want to do, and I would spend a good amount of time figuring that out, I would continue the PhD program, and then when you clearly realize what it is you will set out to accomplish, you can quit the program and know that you have something even better in its place.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I am in the process of transitioning in changing my college major to something that flows more easily for me. I took over a year off to "find myself" and it really helped out. I used to be a math major, but now I am working towards a communication degree and it is just so much better. It doesn't matter how long it takes to make this transition, the fact is I know where my talents lie. I know what works for me. I want to write and speak and do stand-up comedy. I have great things to share and if I do what it is I need to do, I should become very successful. If graduate school is not meshing well with your feelings, then drop it. Trust your intuition. It is a hard lesson to learn, and once you learn how to listen to it effectively, you will learn to trust it better. Good luck in making your decision.