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08-09-2007, 03:57 AM
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 The Problem with LoA… There is nothing basically wrong with LoA… the problem lies with the way that it is presented, explained and viewed… "Your thoughts and feelings will tend to attract whatever will happen to you…" end of the line the bus stops here… that is basically what LoA is all about… However, that is not what is being projected… LoA is the end-all, magic recipe to get what whatever you want… providing that you use it the following way… is the message that we are bombarded with… and, that message is followed by an incredibly complex set of rules that should be followed in order to obtain results… Next comes the admonition that if you do not get results… it is because you are not following the proper procedures… That is total BS… no one alive or dead has ever been successful in using LoA to get all that he/she wanted out of life… yet, even when faced with this undeniable truth… people will still cling to the belief that LoA is the ultimate solution… and, all that has to be done is to get the ultimate formula… and everything will then be perfect… or almost… The sad truth is that… many people will believe almost anything if it promises solutions to life’s problems… no matter how improbable or far fetched it is… LoA does work… and it works wonders when used in it right perspective… but not when it is associated with la-la land… .      |
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08-09-2007, 06:16 AM
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 The problem with LoA Hi Shamou I completely agree. I feel The Secret was a missed opportunity for precisely this reason. I prefer to think of it in terms of Intention = Creation rather than the "Law" of Attraction, because it is questionable whether there is indeed any such law, whether it means what LoA proponents claim it means and, even if there is and it does, it is only one universal law. There are many others in operation simultaneously e.g. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; like electrical charges repel; unalike attract etc. etc. However, the setting of positive intention has been a most powerful approach in my life and in the lives of the women I work with. The most useful aspect of setting a positive intention is a) observing the thoughts it produces and b) aligning intention, thought, feeling and action. As the old song says: "It ain't what you do/It's the way that you do it/That's what get results". I enjoyed your contributions prosper! Anna
__________________ www.wealthofwomen.com Last edited by WealthofWomen : 08-09-2007 at 06:19 AM. |
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08-09-2007, 07:11 AM
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| I have seen amasing creation result from hard work, and mediocrity and amasing failure result from hard work. I have also seen amasing creation from thin air, and experienced amasing things literally falling in my lap, but have seen and experienced things not turn out anything like they were supposed to from trying that approach. From my perspective and mindset, in those latter circumstances, what may appear to be unsuccessful, or disastrous often works out amasingly for the best. I have a certain amount of understanding and knowledge, but there is plenty I don't understand. For someone to say they have all the answers in the creation field is a big call. People claiming that should have no trouble building a universe, cosmos and beyond, as well as explaining where it all came from. What is beyond space? That creation should also be clear to anyone with all the answers on creation. Was it hard work that created all I see when I look into the night sky and beyond, and the first life...I don't know. Personally, the most amasing people I have met and studied say otherwise. But maybe I might be viewed as just a deluded sucker, BS. I don't remotely accept that. I'm happy, rich, fulfilled, super fit and healthy, with a beautiful wife and kids, and I also wish the best for everyone and our planet. And I have an open mind and respect and enjoy difference. Clinging to and demanding only one way can be a problem, a closed mind in a realm of infinite possibilities. |
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08-09-2007, 07:15 AM
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| The LoA, or more correctly, CM (choice-manifestation) isn't something you can switch on and off. It works 24/7, all day, every day. Some people incorrectly think it's something to use when they want a million dollars or when the brown stuff hits the fan, but it's always working and always on, mostly working unnoticed. I find the terminology incorrect..........Law of Attraction.......that attraction part seems to imply lack and that the goal you require does not exist yet, but as we only ever exist in this present moment and never anywhere else, how can what we require not exist now. I can see the importance of the term, attraction, but it seems to negate responsibility on a creative level. Max |
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08-09-2007, 07:16 AM
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| I await the avalanche of posts expressing personal anecdotes and stories that contradict your ideas Shamou  But I completely agree with you Shamou, there are many far-fetched ideas in this world and one of these is the idea that your thoughts will conspire with the universe to fulfill your desires.One of the first things that annoys me about the LOA as expressed in the secret is the following little axiom; 'The universe does not recognize the word 'not'. If you intend that you do 'not want to lose your job', the universe will simply read this as 'you want to lose your job' So is the universe autistic now? Be careful people, don't think abstractly when using the LOA. Of course this is completely untrue, considering I've spent the last year of my life insisting to myself that the LOA does not work and, well... either the universe is just getting confused or this whole idea is B.S. At least the magical/universal realignment stuff is. The whole 'positive thinking' stuff certainly has some truth to it. EDIT: Turns out I have a knock for foretelling things. In the process of typing up this post, both Max Power and Uplift posted before me with their views on the matter. I'm fairly sure this could turn into a fairly contentious thread. I'll be here as usual Last edited by Advent Shade : 08-09-2007 at 07:19 AM. |
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08-09-2007, 11:19 AM
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People always look up for help, outside themsleves for strenght. There is no universe, there is no help, there is no outside......... All the power, all the truth is inside........like the seed, everything required to be a mighty tree is already contained inside the seed. Max |
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08-09-2007, 12:21 PM
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| I just posted a blog on this exact topic that I would love some comments on. I'm new to blogging and really wondering if I'm producing useful stuff or not - here's an extract: First of all, let’s look at a tidbit of information that indicates how misunderstandings are bound to arise. Ester Hicks, author of the book The Law of Attraction  , has stated (I can’t quote exactly, as I do not remember where in the published material it was), that there is a common resistance to use the word vibrations in the movie and in books on the subject. The reason for this is that this word gives off association that reduces the credibility of the presentation for a number of people. This type of issue is a common denominator of a lot of misinterpretations.When information is to be presented one has to take into consideration how people receive it. Certain ideas have traditionally been ridiculed to such an extent, that the majority of people are conditioned to associate most words used to describe these ideas with scams and delusions. The word vibrations has come to be associated with “new age la-la land” to such an extent that those who want to present ideas that they think is not “new age la-la stuff” but still easily can be associated with that, have a big problem in which words to choose instead. With the Law of Attraction a lot of presenters have chosen to use words that are more commonly associated with people’s everyday experience and current popular scientific presentations. The downside to this is that this context is mostly based on Newtonian physics and the philosophy of Descartes reductionism. Even though science have moved beyond this, popular opinions and cultural beliefs have not. The LoA is just not possible to explain within the context of Newtonian physics and reductionist thinking, and the attempts to explain it with just the terminology for that context has backfired in a big way.
__________________ _______________________ Sigrid Christensen Hypnotist Energytherapist/NLP Master Practioner Sigrid Christensen.com Last edited by unicorn : 08-09-2007 at 09:31 PM. Reason: correcting link to blog |
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08-09-2007, 12:50 PM
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| yes, I agree. So much of the terminology is unhelpful, as is the attempt to "support" the "law" with dodgy quantam physics. Perhaps the most dangerous aspect of the way in which this is being widely taught now (and it is interesting that many contributors to this thread use other terms - like choice-manifestation, or in our case, intention-manifestaion) is that people are merging withe the idea that to think something is to make it happen. It's as if 100 years of psychology has been discarded and the unconscious/ subconscious thought has been disappeared... That's not to say I'm not a "believer" - I am. But not in the simple, reductionist ideas that are currently circulating.
__________________ www.wealthofwomen.com |
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08-09-2007, 01:04 PM
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| My reaction I have to say when I watched the Secret my immediate reactions was... Something's missing here. It was too simplistic and glossed over the actual process of what happens when you use LOA. I'm an LoA proponent and use it consciously a lot. My experience of it's positive effects is certainly a hell of a lot different to thinking about an elephant and one shits in my living room.  For me it happens like this. I set an intention to create something then I find the quickest avenue for achieving that presents itself to me. I get the ideas and they turn out to be gems often producing far better results than if I just went about things half-assed. If you're not an LoA believer you'd probably explain it in terms of me being more mentally focused on my goal and therefore bringing my full intelligence to the problem ultimately coming up with the best solution. I do find if I'm scattered or confused the results of my actions are pretty much hit and miss. If I focus through LoA I can take less action and get better results. |
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08-09-2007, 03:08 PM
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| When reality is simply too cruel to face… it is tempting to seek the haven of peace that the “sweet delirium” aspect of LoA can provide… to come to believe that LoA is the Holy Grail that will eventually solve all problems and make the hurt go away… At times, even false hope is better than no hope at all… and self-deception can be a temporary oasis while healing and gathering strength… but… sooner or later… a reality check has to be effected… . |
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08-09-2007, 03:29 PM
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The Quack-Files: D.D. Palmer's Religion of Chiropractic - D.D. Palmer letter, May 4, 1911 Daniel David Palmer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Chiropractary Googling Chiropractic and Marketing is interesting too. Worthwhile and revealing to research the roots and basis of things. |
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08-09-2007, 03:55 PM
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08-09-2007, 04:08 PM
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08-09-2007, 04:57 PM
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| God & the mystics don'ot make any promises other than spiritual connection/understanding. Many LoA proponents are promising people that they can have the equivalent of heaven on earth -- just by wishing it so. Does this not give you any cause for concern, Uplift? Particularly for those who are most needy and in need? WoW
__________________ www.wealthofwomen.com |
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08-09-2007, 09:40 PM
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| I would be one of the biggest opposers of LoA if some things that happened in my life hadn't happened. I don't know if it's just my unconscious doing the work for me or if there is something bigger involved; as Mr.Smith would say; "At this point, it is irrelevant" And this is not delusional wishful thinking, when i compare my situation with the one from people around me, i have SOLID, CONCRETE, REAL proof that something i do (wheter it be LoA, or my unconscious MIRACULOUSLY helping me to achieve some grand goals) is dramatically helping me. I'm a very fact-driven person, that's why i dropped the "new-born cristian faith", which was very rooted on me since i was a child until when i was 17, when i managed to break off from it. I dropped it because it didnt work, i'm not interested in self-delusion or wishful thinking, i'm interested in results. Believing in LoA/subconscious guiding me did bring me great results, and as the saying goes :"If you keep doing what you always did, you will keep getting what you always did" (or something like that  ) i'm very happy with what i'm getting, and i expect to keep on doing this until the results stop appearing; and i don't think they will.So i believe LoA solely because it brings result, i'm not interested in knowing how it works, all i know is that it works, and that's what matters for me.
__________________ All that matters is results. |
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08-09-2007, 10:04 PM
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The purpose of this thread is not to show that LoA does not work... far from it... however it is an attempt to debunk the mysticism that surrounds it... No one know how it works... and no one knows how to make it work better... what we do know is that, "Your thoughts and feelings will tend to attract whatever will happen to you…" If you generally focus on how lucky and successful you are in whatever it is that you undertake... that is what will unfold in your life... and if you always dwell on the reverse side of that mindset... your life will be hell... But what burns my arse is people teaching that if you follow a certain technique, all that you have to do it to sit on your butt... use that technique... and come next Monday morning... 72 virgins will be awaiting for you.. That is deceitful, morally wrong and just plain unacceptable... . |
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08-09-2007, 11:38 PM
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| LOA causes cancer? Micheal Ledwith (from "the bleep') wrote an article titled "Poisonous prayers." He describes how a young woman had inadvertently caused her breast cancer through LOA and died from it. She had prayed to god night and day to save her from the same fate her mother suffered. Because her focus (he says) was on cancer, it manifested. He also says that because she didn't understand the true nature of god (LOA?) her prayers became poisonous. I don't like this at all because from his perspective it is true. I also feel there is something missing. This cannot be right! Can anyone explain this in better terms? |
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08-09-2007, 11:45 PM
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There is no way in the world where anyone could say with any degree (even the smallest) that a person had contracted cancer through LoA... that is silly... However, some poor sap may believe that and decide to buy whatever Micheal Ledwith is selling... Not I am not against selling anything pertaining to PD or LoA... however using such scare tactics to sell anything, gain notoriety or publicity is simply immoral, deceitful and just plain wrong... . |
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08-09-2007, 11:53 PM
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WealthofWomen, mystics make many promises to people regarding the unlimited nature of, and possibiliies and reasons for investigating and following their paths. So Shamou, if someone posted here, 'I have long been interested in Spiritual and non wordly things and was mopping the floor at work today, when the Universe talked to me and instantly showed me how to heal you and everyone else by simply communicating with and adjusting your Spiritual connection. I am now instantly a master and doctor of the science of Spiritual alignment, as was Jesus, and am opening schools to teach you how to heal others and make lots of money doing this valuable service', I can imagine your outcry. Yet when it suits you, you accept and follow the same reasoning and scenario. I agree there is so much we are yet to understand. So who among us truly knows and can prove beyond doubt what is and isn't real and possible. And there are frauds and con men in all fields of life. Personally I think chiropractic is the biggest money churning scam going. Through my sporting background I know and have dealt with some of the highest ranked chiropracters in the country, and world. A good friend who was one of Australia's leading chiro's quit, walked away from it and became vehemently opposed to it, due to, in his view, the rampant marketing and lack of real results. Yet others swear by it, and there are many good people who feel that they are doing something awesome by practising it. So who am I to judge and criticise their choices and beliefs. Maybe D D palmer was on the level. I have seen and experienced enough not to discount the possibility of what he claimed. I have also seen and experienced enough to realise that just because I have a belief and limit doesn't mean that it applies to everyone else. A visible enjoyable aspect of life on this planet is variety. Fear and opposition of it is the cause of most of our wars and conflicts. It takes all types, and I admire people who have the courage to explore the limits and possibilities of LoA. Its a fine line between being a hero and delusional. Roger Bannister was once considered a dangerous, delusional person by the majority of scientists and experts. Last edited by Uplift : 08-09-2007 at 11:54 PM. Reason: punctuation, diction |
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08-10-2007, 05:10 AM
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| Here are two blog entries saying similar things. The Law Of Attraction De-Mystified : A Miracle A Day 10 Things you Can’t do with the Law of Attraction | Today is that Day |