The Problem with LoA…

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

What do you mean by this?

We have this contact because boundaries and limits were not accepted. We have the choice to speed up that process, limit it or even regress.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Sure. If you don't like the illustration using other people, then here's an illustration using yourself.

At this point in time, are you as good as you'll ever be in using LOA to attract whatever you want? Is there any room for improvement? How? By what means? In what way? What could you try? How might you find out more? What do you need to know better?

Oooops. There we go again. Exactly what you didn't want to do.

It's very presumptuous of you to think that I am pursuing LOA as such. I find that personal development and striving to reach one's potential is time better spent. I believe we are here to evolve, learn lessons and become better than we are. If LOA is part of this, so be it, but I don't sit around trying to manifest hot cars, fame, a million dollars etc. I'm not saying I don't enjoy nice things but that is not my focus.

The point is this - I understand your earlier point to be that further inquiry/exploration/investigation of LOA is useless because we won't be able to learn anything except in the future. But if you stop inquiring, exploring or investigating LOA, how are you going to learn anything more, now or in the future?

Again you are misinterpreting what I have said. I did not say it was useless to investigate LOA. I said we are limited in what we can know about it at this stage of our evolution. We can speculate but we cannot know certain things.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Uplift

We have this contact because boundaries and limits were not accepted. We have the choice to speed up that process, limit it or even regress.

I don't disagree with you that great things have come about because people have chosen to stretch the limits, or that we should continue to do so.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

It's very presumptuous of you to think that I am pursuing LOA as such. I find that personal development and striving to reach one's potential is time better spent. I believe we are here to evolve, learn lessons and become better than we are. If LOA is part of this, so be it, but I don't sit around trying to manifest hot cars, fame, a million dollars etc. I'm not saying I don't enjoy nice things but that is not my focus.

Well my apologies. I may have confused your posts with Shamou's.

Again you are misinterpreting what I have said. I did not say it was useless to investigate LOA. I said we are limited in what we can know about it at this stage of our evolution.

Then the relevant question is whether you are anywhere remotely close to reaching your limits in what you can know about LOA at this stage of your evolution.

Which I doubt, unless maybe if you're actually Esther Hicks in disguise, or Deepak Chopra or Wayne Dyer or Jane Roberts.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Then the relevant question is whether you are anywhere remotely close to reaching your limits in what you can know about LOA at this stage of your evolution.

Which I doubt, unless maybe if you're actually Esther Hicks in disguise, or Deepak Chopra or Wayne Dyer or Jane Roberts.

As I mentioned in earlier posts, as human beings we can only know to a limited degree because of our limited physical attributes. Our minds have not evolved enough to encompass more than theory and speculation about LOA. Esther Hicks, Deepak and the rest are no exception.

For the record, I believe that we attract what we are, so it's in our best interests to be the best we can be. I mean that in the most general sense, of course.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

As I mentioned in earlier posts, as human beings we can only know to a limited degree because of our limited physical attributes. Our minds have not evolved enough to encompass more than theory and speculation about LOA. Esther Hicks, Deepak and the rest are no exception.

For the record, I believe that we attract what we are, so it's in our best interests to be the best we can be. I mean that in the most general sense, of course.

The term our mind, your mind. So who are you that uses the mind?

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Uplift

The term our mind, your mind. So who are you that uses the mind?

I use the term in a general sense. Feel free to interpret it however you choose or insert any other term.

[jasonivers]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Here are two blog entries saying similar things.

The Law Of Attraction De-Mystified : A Miracle A Day
10 Things you Can’t do with the Law of Attraction | Today is that Day

Thank you for mentioning my article. I appreciate the vote of confidence. My first thought, when I first read more than a couple of sentences about the LOA, was "Duh". If you think about something more, you're going to notice more of it in your life, without changing your circumstances or actions at all. Your subconscious simply alerts your consciousness to it, because your thinking about it tells your subconscious that it's important.

That notice also brings choices involving it more to the front, meaning you're more likely to take action that involves what you've been thinking about, bringing even more of it into your life. But then again, you already know that... it's common sense.

Some marketing genius made a ton of money repackaging common sense, and if one of you really felt like it, you could probably take lessons from how they did it, and do the same with other common sense things. Personally, I'd rather explain things in terms that actually make sense and are understandable to the average thinking person.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre
View Post
The Law Of Attraction De-Mystified : A Miracle A Day

Thank you Mark for sharing that link with us... I especially appreciated the following excerpt...

"So why do some people use mysterious, unexplainable terms to describe a process that has a simple, common sense explanation?

Because it sells. If you explain something, even something new and useful, to a person in terms so simple that they feel like it's common sense, they won't tell anyone else about it. Why not? Because they don't want the other person to think, or worse yet say, "Duh, everybody knows that."

On the other hand, if you DO use mysterious, unexplainable terms, they will tell all KINDS of people, because they think it makes them sound like they know something special, that they are knowledgeable in an area where most people are not.

This make them feel special and smart, which is a good thing to make someone feel if you want to sell them something (ask anyone who knows anything at all about marketing)."
.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Thank you Mark for sharing that link with us... I especially appreciated the following excerpt...

"So why do some people use mysterious, unexplainable terms to describe a process that has a simple, common sense explanation?

Because it sells. If you explain something, even something new and useful, to a person in terms so simple that they feel like it's common sense, they won't tell anyone else about it. Why not? Because they don't want the other person to think, or worse yet say, "Duh, everybody knows that."

On the other hand, if you DO use mysterious, unexplainable terms, they will tell all KINDS of people, because they think it makes them sound like they know something special, that they are knowledgeable in an area where most people are not.

This make them feel special and smart, which is a good thing to make someone feel if you want to sell them something (ask anyone who knows anything at all about marketing)."
.

You have just described Tony Robbins (the peson who's books you call bible's)and his brand of LoA and IM.

There is no LoA, no IM.........there is choice, there is manifestation....that's it.

Max

[Tam9]

Originally Posted by Max Power

There is no LoA, no IM.........there is choice, there is manifestation....that's it. Max

Says who? Are you the authority?

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Tam9

Says who? Are you the authority?

And who says anyone is the authority. Again, the following highlights the problem of authorities setting limits...and perhaps the main problem affecting LoA.

Bannister and Peers: Heroes Made by Dreaming the Impossible Dream - International Herald Tribune

To see amasing examples of the mysterious and unexplainable check the following:

The Quack-Files: D.D. Palmer's Religion of Chiropractic - D.D. Palmer letter, May 4, 1911

Daniel David Palmer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For endless examples of rampant salesmanship google Chiropractic and marketing... (just be warned, there is an absolutely humungous amount of material there)

[Tam9]

Originally Posted by Uplift

And who says anyone is the authority.

That's exactly my point. Who made Max the authority?

There is no LoA, no IM.........there is choice, there is manifestation....that's it. Max

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Tam9

That's exactly my point. Who made Max the authority?

And the other stuff in my post? Mysterious messages from 'OLD DAD', resulting in a whole religious industry, and rampant salesmanship. In that case it is a miracle and acceptable, and worth selling, but in LoA its a no, no?

[Tam9]

Originally Posted by Uplift

And the other stuff in my post?

I was specifically addressing that Max is not the authority here. As far as anyone being the authority, we should all use our common sense when reading anything or being sold any bill of goods, if you know what I mean.

[Maguru]

There seems to be some confusion as to the power behind loa and mi. To imagine thoughts alone have the creative force to make anything but very minor adjustments is crazy thinking. My 1st husband would have been dead 10 times over.
If I had acted on my thoughts and killed him, it wouldn't have been because of loa or im. However, if I believed it was right and just to kill him and that I had no other choice, then my 'belief system' would have been the force behind the 'manifestation' of the experience.
Similarly, if I am behaving in an self-assured, capable manner but I don't believe it and feel the opposite, then the true belief I hold will show in my expereince and **** ups will happen.
It doesn't really matter what cirumstances one is in, the 'belief' held about self, the world and life will win through.
The universe, the world and our lives are individually and collectively being created by our belief systems and I believe once we have a solid, truth based belief system then the magic will happen.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I believe once we have a solid, truth based belief system then the magic will happen.

Karl Marx said, “Religion is the opium of the masses…” And, in one sense, the same could be said for LoA…

The strongest proponents of LoA are almost always talking in the future tense… As in, “I’m still knee deep in the proverbial stuff… but… something fantastic is coming… I’m positive of it… all that is needed to be done is to align my ego with whatever… and the magic will happen…”

Look around you… read biographies… positive people have mostly positive lives… and negative people have mostly negative lives… but, no one… and I repeat, no one ever gets everything going his or her way…

It’s always a matter of small percentage in results… but that small percentage makes all the difference in the world… “All that you need to be successful in the stock market is to be right fifty one percent of the time…”

That one percent makes the difference between success and failure… and that one percent is what LoA is all about…
.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Karl Marx said, “Religion is the opium of the masses…” And, in one sense, the same could be said for LoA…

The strongest proponents of LoA are almost always talking in the future tense… As in, “I’m still knee deep in the proverbial stuff… but… something fantastic is coming… I’m positive of it… all that is needed to be done is to align my ego with whatever… and the magic will happen…”

Look around you… read biographies… positive people have mostly positive lives… and negative people have mostly negative lives… but, no one… and I repeat, no one ever gets everything going his or her way…

It’s always a matter of small percentage in results… but that small percentage makes all the difference in the world… “All that you need to be successful in the stock market is to be right fifty one percent of the time…”

That one percent makes the difference between success and failure… and that one percent is what LoA is all about…
.

I have awesome success from my beliefs and application of LoA, and I do look forward to more. I actually trade in the stock market for a living, and being right 51% of the time is no guarantee of success, there is much more involved. Plenty of people lose money with much higher odds than that.


Your quote:

'The strongest proponents of LoA are almost always talking in the future tense… As in, “I’m still knee deep in the proverbial stuff… but… something fantastic is coming… I’m positive of it… all that is needed to be done is to align my ego with whatever… and the magic will happen…" '

What 'scientific evidences' (to borrow your own term) have you of this. How many thousands of cases, over what time period and what methods of testing and review were used, to use the angle you demand of others. It is obviously just your biased, unqualified, personal opinion.

You blurted it out in another forum and thread:

'When someone starts attacking the messenger instead of the message… it simply mean that person is out of logical arguments and that the debate is over… the attacker has lost… and the messenger has won…

That is the reason that I do not respond aggressively to personal attacks… why should I…??? I have already won…'

Sharing?

Your true motive is your desperation to win, the desperate need to always appear as the winner, the top 'alpha' dog, and I believe it clouds your judgement and arguments, as well as accounting for your obsessive, fanatical amount of posts. The saving the 'poor desperate deluded others' just sounds better. Save yourself.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Uplift

I have awesome success from my beliefs and application of LoA, and I do look forward to more. I actually trade in the stock market for a living, and being right 51% of the time is no guarantee of success, there is much more involved. Plenty of people lose money with much higher odds than that.


Your quote:

'The strongest proponents of LoA are almost always talking in the future tense… As in, “I’m still knee deep in the proverbial stuff… but… something fantastic is coming… I’m positive of it… all that is needed to be done is to align my ego with whatever… and the magic will happen…" '

What 'scientific evidences' (to borrow your own term) have you of this. How many thousands of cases, over what time period and what methods of testing and review were used, to use the angle you demand of others. It is obviously just your biased, unqualified, personal opinion.

You blurted it out in another forum and thread:

'When someone starts attacking the messenger instead of the message… it simply mean that person is out of logical arguments and that the debate is over… the attacker has lost… and the messenger has won…

That is the reason that I do not respond aggressively to personal attacks… why should I…??? I have already won…'

Sharing?

Your true motive is your desperation to win, the desperate need to always appear as the winner, the top 'alpha' dog, and I believe it clouds your judgement and arguments, as well as accounting for your obsessive, fanatical amount of posts. The saving the 'poor desperate deluded others' just sounds better. Save yourself.

You don't really expect me to answer this post... do you...??? Bwahahahaha
.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Shamou

You don't really expect me to answer this post... do you...??? Bwahahahaha
.

I knew you couldn't resist.

[Maguru]

Shamou, I see what you mean about living in the future. I don't live in hope for the same reason. I never hope for anything. However, creating one's own life experiences is quite different. Times are rapidly changing and we can effect these changes or let them effect us. It will happen. Change is unstoppable and LoA is a part of this change but god forbid it should become religious.

The part LoA is playing is to show us mere mortals that there is much more to us than we imagine. We won't stop here. The human race reaching its potential is the magic I speak of. This is not fanciful thinking. This is so possible. We have a real and tangible glimpse of the unknown. Don't knock it.

You appear to speak from a perception of success or failure that influences your thinking. Maybe it isn't about success or failure? What if it is about mental and emotional maturity? What if it is a rite of passage?

There are many perspectives we could consider besides good and bad, negative or positive, success or failure, painful or pleasureable. These are all judgements based in the polarities of life as we know it and, in turn, are based on perceptions based on life teachings and life experiences, and the preverbial wheel keeps spinning. The irony is that all this speculation could be completely irrelevant and it simply is a gateway into the unknown that some will take and some will not.

Originally Posted by Shamou

Karl Marx said, “Religion is the opium of the masses…” And, in one sense, the same could be said for LoA…

The strongest proponents of LoA are almost always talking in the future tense… As in, “I’m still knee deep in the proverbial stuff… but… something fantastic is coming… I’m positive of it… all that is needed to be done is to align my ego with whatever… and the magic will happen…”

Look around you… read biographies… positive people have mostly positive lives… and negative people have mostly negative lives… but, no one… and I repeat, no one ever gets everything going his or her way…

It’s always a matter of small percentage in results… but that small percentage makes all the difference in the world… “All that you need to be successful in the stock market is to be right fifty one percent of the time…”

That one percent makes the difference betwee