I respect her so deeply. She is not right in my opinion on everything she says, but she hits some hot points there !!!!
YouTube - Memri TV
I totally agree with you.
It's good to see people 'over there' feel like this, and can even express that on television.
We should have more of this.
We have always known it was never about religion, but when hearts full of hate are in control, you have disaster.
I think for the long term the East will come through on these struggles and for a nations/civilations to grow, they need the struggles. (Wish they didn't)
Encouraged by the short video
Very outspoken lady who makes a lot of sense... thank you for sharing that with us... http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...1/thumbsup.gif
Thanks for this. What a courageous, articulate and wise woman! I'm sending this to everyone in my address book!
Niki what an amazing video! Thanks for sharing it.
I can't believe they let her express her views. I hope everyone listens.
Now that is a sense of purpose. What courage. Amazing.
Both Bush and Osama should see that video, if they haven't already. I doubt they'll change their minds about anything, but it might give them something to think about.
i personnally can't see what is so amazing...
it's very one-side-oriented and very discriminatory : the good jews-scientists made humanity grow during 19th and 20th century vs the bad-muslims, sources of all evil on earth.. overly simplified
very sionist feel..
it's just sounds too manichean for me, but perhaps it's just because i'm french :D
I have to agree with Raoh. It's great that she's willing to speak out against backwardness and barbarity, but there's barbarity aplenty in both sides of this conflict. Was it civilized people, champions of human rights who tortured Iraqi inmates at Abu Graib prison? Was it civilized people who responded to a vicious terrorist assault by killing thousands of innocent civilians with bombs?
By singling out Muslims in particular as barbaric she has alienated the very people she's trying to convince. "Barbarism must not be accepted whether it comes from us or them" would have been a much more powerful message, IMO.
In her defence, she's probably not as aware of the foibles of the West as she is of her own culture.
Aside: This video is good evidence that Al Jazeera is not an Anti-West propaganda station as some claim.
Since a few of you seem to think Islamic culture with Muslims have contributed much in the way of progress, development and making the world generally better, I'd ask you to please enlighten me as to what those accomplishments are.
Michelle, the Ottoman Empire gave us coffee. :P
More to the point, though, the Ottoman Empire and the Moors are the only reason a large portion of ancient literature and artifacts still exist. I can go into more detail later.
wow! what a great woman, i hope she is spared to teach the world of tolerance, if not acceptance.
good for her!:)
may she remain safe . even if just one person hears her out.
apparently only western civilisation has contributed to the progress of the world in your mind... if i'm wrong excuse my guess.
I think you should open your eyes on others (not only muslims by the way..)
Some muslim mathematicians :
# Ghiyath al-Kashi
# Abou Abdallah Muḥammad Ben Mūsa ʾal-Khuwārizmī
# Omar Khayyam ( 1048 - 1131)
# Abu'l-Hasan al-Uqlidisi
# Abalphat d'Ispahan (vers 990)
# Muhammad AboŻl-Waf‚ (940 - 998)
# Al-Biruni (973 - 1048)
# Al Hasan al-Haytham ę Alhazen Ľ (965 - 1039)
Some doctors :
* Ali Abbas
* Abu Muhammad Ibn al-Baitar
* Ibn al-Jazzar
* Ibn Nafis
* Abu Al-Qasim
* Abu Bakr Mohammad Ibn Zakariya al-Razi
more generally you can have a view on List of Arab scientists and scholars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I can understand that in the context of our time there is much confusion, but to suggest that only one civilisation contributed to the advancement and progress of mankind meanwhile pointing an entire other part of this world as the source of all barbarism and bad there is, is not only oversimplified and wrong, it's a particularily dangerous mindset.
I would suggest you to travel over the world and to spend time with "muslim" people (wouh scary..) in malaysia, indonesia, some part of india, dubai, the emirates, mauritius island, morocco, south africa, france so you can see if muslim people there are sub-men and sub-women..
it's so easy to turn on oneself and fantasize.
Wow, i now sound harsh, excuse me Michelle if you feel it this way, it's not my intention, but as a westerner (french guy) not living in europe, this kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoys me.
excuse my poor english by the way.
My post was not meant sarcastically, by the way. I think most people in the Western hemisphere would do hard to name a Muslim who had contributed something beneficial to their daily life. That doesn't mean that person doesn't exist, of course. Perhaps we are just unaware. That is why I asked for enlightenment.
Is it too late to just move Isreal somewhere else?
Their (muslim) belief systems are what they are. We're not going to change them. I'm watching her thinking, ok, she's dead. She's putting out a fire with gasoline. She looks as just as fanatical TO THEM.
There's got to be a political solution we can all live with. This is really getting old, tiresome, and expensive. Is this the best we can do?:confused: Isreal should have been taken from a piece of Germany after WWII. I'm not a student of those times. Why did they decide to pick that location? It couldn't have been a worse move.
One of the most important, I think, was this one:
AverroŽs, known in his native tongue as Abu al-Walid Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Rushd, is the primary reason we know of Aristotle today. He translated Aristotle's works when they had been largely forgotten in western Europe, and his translations were later used to bring Aristotle's legacy to light in the West. He is one of the people indirectly responsible for the Scientific Revolution which transformed the West.
Also, for a more modern example, take a look at this link:
Islam and Modern Science
It's a transcription of a lecture given by a noted Arabic scholar at MIT, of all places. Have a read.
She is obviously biased against Muslims and perhaps even Arabs, but she is only propagating the anti-Muslim and anti-Islamic feeling around the world today. Using extreme examples and half-information, she is attempting to use it as a blanket statement for all Muslims and the religion. The problems exist, but they exist within the people not the religion.
The one point she made that has repeated itself over and over in my mind was that "other people's beliefs are not your concern." Therein lies my problem with some Muslims, particularly the ones who want to kill me.
i want to clarify that my point was not to induce a talk on the possible influences or lack of influences of muslims or islam on westerners.. there are very good talks in universities on these subjects, i'm sure you can have some very useful information there, it can be interesting.. but for me, it's not relevant, i just don't care :
i can't see much beneficial contribution to my daily life from aborigens, inuÔts, tutsi or many other people, but this is not making them lesser men or lesser civilisation or whatever less,...
and i felt this kind of insinuation from your message, and once again, if i feel too much (i'm a feeling guy:D.. the french lover clichť you know..;) ), sorry.
My point is simply that it's so easy to condemn 1/5 or more of humanity for what a small minority of bloody barbarians do.
i'm not buying this theory condemning systematically one side, one people, one faith. There is blood on many many hands, jews, muslims, christians, easterners, westerners, chineses, japaneses, koreans, whites, blacks, arabs and so on..
History is full of blood.
This women has her point of view, i respect that, but Geopolitics in middle-east is far more complicated than good-progressist-educated-jews versus bad-primitive-retrograde-arabs-muslims.
Islam--> terrorist or Basque-->terrorist or Hutu--> murderer or Khmer-->barbarian et caetera et caetaera... sound just ridiculous shortcuts to me, whatever "beneficial influences" or not those people had on me, on westerners, or on anyone.
My apologies for the long message and my poor level in english :( .
as has malcolm x and the nation of islam.
those are the only 2 i can think of off the top of my head but i dont doubt there are many more.
edited to add: DAVE CHAPPELLE! genius!
One thing she said that I suspect is spot on is that this is not a clash of cultures, it's a clash of eras. IMO, it's not an accident that the countries that still have a largely mediaeval way of life are the ones producing 'Radical Islamists' whereas muslims in the West are more 'progressive'. There are exceptions of course, just as there are still Christians with 'radical' (fundamentalist) beliefs in the West.
Christianity was 'radical' in pre-Renaissance Europe. The Bible contains many passages that can be taken as incitement to cruelty and barbarism. But the modern Christian has come to realise that those passages are context-dependent - they were written for the people of a particular time and are no longer literally applicable. Christianity in the West still hasn't entirely crawled out of this shadow, but it's moving in the right direction(unfortunately the current leadership of the US is walking back into the shadow, IMO).
Similarly, I'm sure the Qu'ran has some passages that are incitement to barbarity. Muslims in more modern countries recognise these as context-dependent. Many Muslims in the more 'mediaeval' countries do not.
Like she said: It is not a clash of cultures, it is a clash of eras - a clash between a mentality that belongs in the 21st century and one that belongs in the 16th. And there are proponents of the archaic mentality on both on both sides of this conflict.
The power brokers in the middle east today are analgous to the roman catholic church as it struggled to hold onto it's power in the wake of the renaissance and the age of enlightenment in 18th century europe.
Not wanting to relinquish power, the mideast clerics chose not to embrace the concept of separation of church and state and have managed to keep capitolism at bay.
They have demonized the west in an effort to maintain control and power. We have backed them into a corner with no way out except to fight us to the death.
Our dependence on their oil has forced the issue. Their may be internal issues of guilt for selling us their oil. They have been seduced by the west ($$$) and are deeply torn. It would be like experienceing remorse after having a one night stand. ;)
Our leaders, I believe, are not overly cautious, in keeping WMD out of the area at this time.
Like with the USSR, patience will win out. I predict one day soon that Bagdad will be an international gambling and resort destination. Capitolism is just too seductive!
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