Do schools make you poor?

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by JohnPlace

Are you o'kay, Uplift? I'm asking this seriously.

Good question John...

.

[Namaste]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Brutha, find out what happened when NASA visited Sai Baba...it's pretty funny! You won't see much about it, because it is so funny. But it happened.

Where would I find some info on this? I'd like to read about it. I tried googling "Sai Baba + NASA" but with no avail. Sorry about the offtopic.

[Uplift]

I'm deluxe JohnPlace. That's why I don't dodge issues, like the welfare of school children. Look at the original question. Everything I've said in my post that you just quoted is true, and sometimes the truth about situations isn't okay though. Like I said, no child should be shot at school, and something needs serious attention. But if you are okay with it, thats up to you... and Shamou. Now, seriously, have you got a clue how the bible that shapes your beliefs, and that you love to quote from was formulated, and by whom? And do you guys actually believe in a mechanical universe? Are you guys alright...seriously?

Brutha, Michelson and Morley's findings, which shape the present world view, are now, monotonously, once again, reluctantly accepted by 'science', as wrong.

Namaste, I'll let you learn to stretch your ingenuity and imagination for a while, and then I'll help you. For now, I'll give you a clue. It all started with NASA taking different types of photographs of the earth's surface. Are you really suprised that is hard to find? Now you are getting a real lesson about the workings of science. But persevere, don't give up so quickly, enjoy it.

[1000feet]

Although this is a perfect example of how to derail a legitimate discussion into a long series of conspiracy theories based more on the thesaurus than reality (come to think of it, this is probably Mad Libs, $10 Word Edition), it's very entertaining

[Brutha]

Brutha, Michelson and Morley's findings, which shape the present world view, are now, monotonously, once again, reluctantly accepted by 'science', as wrong.

They found that the Speed of light is the same in all directions on earth.
Maybe you also has a problem with the aether. That problem could result from your belief that your metaphysical concept have a deeper meaning beyond their practical consequences. They just words to describe something. The aether that Michelson and Morley wanted to verify doesn't exist. As a sidenote at the moment the concept of the aether also isn't used in mainstream science.
Science doesn't make metaphysical judgements.

It all started with NASA taking different types of photographs of the earth's surface. Are you really suprised that is hard to find?

After a quick google search, it appear that Sai Baba was an Indian guru who died 1918. I don't know what that has to do with photographs of the earth. Nasa was founded later than that.

[Uplift]

Brutha, I nearly wrote a sarcastic answer. I mean honestly mate...but what's the use. Try to check out E. W. Silvertooth. Even The American Journal of Science has described Michelson and Morley's experiment as 'the most successful failed experiment'. Sai Baba is alive. It's pretty common knowledge, pretty easy to find. You are clutching at straws, very short one's too. I don't know. See what I mean. The power of blinkers. Why the desperate clinging to something, even when its blatently wrong? Thats my issue with this whole thing. Its been the bane of science. Who cares, make mistakes, but those mistakes have ridiculed, attacked and anhilated so many innocent Cultures.
Its the kids that are important. Not the preservation of some archaic system, that is letting kids slip through the cracks. KIDS ARE GETTING SHOT! HAVE YOU NOTICED! ISN"T THAT IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO ADDRESS! COULDN"T WE CONCEIVE OF SOMETHING BETTER FOR KIDS! Or should we just give the armed guards bigger rifles.

[Namaste]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Its the kids that are important. Not the preservation of some archaic system, that is letting kids slip through the cracks. KIDS ARE GETTING SHOT! HAVE YOU NOTICED! ISN"T THAT IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO ADDRESS! COULDN"T WE CONCEIVE OF SOMETHING BETTER FOR KIDS! Or should we just give the armed guards bigger rifles.

I do not see how the Western school system, the scientific world view or the unfortunate Morley and Michelson have anything to do with the amount of school shootings in America. Education systems and regard for scientific thinking are very similar in the US and Australia yet people (and children!) don't get shot here nearly as often (methinks, possibly) because guns are much harder to get a hold of. If wicked science is the cause of this misfortune, why doesn't it affect Aussies in the same way?

[Namaste]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Sai Baba is alive.

Uplift, I'm still waiting for the Sai Baba part

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Namaste

I do not see how the Western school system, the scientific world view or the unfortunate Morley and Michelson have anything to do with the amount of school shootings in America. Education systems and regard for scientific thinking are very similar in the US and Australia yet people (and children!) don't get shot here nearly as often (methinks, possibly) because guns are much harder to get a hold of. If wicked science is the cause of this misfortune, why doesn't it affect Aussies in the same way?

Uplift, I'm still waiting for the Sai Baba part

The very things you talk about and are unable to see, are the exact same reason you can't even see that Sai Baba is alive, despite the fact that thousands see him daily. Because your thinking is so conditioned and blinkered, you and Brutha have only noticed Shirdi Sai Baba, and have totally missed Sathya Sai Baba. If you were able to escape your limited, incorrect world view you would have also seen that the two are inextricably linked. Despite the fact that it is virtually impossible to investigate one, without noticing the other, you wonderfully, miraculously demonstrate the power of western conditioning. 'The unfortunate Morley and Michelson' experiment is the reason western education continued to wrongly teach and assume, that all things are unconnected and separate. Once again, well and truly blinkered, you haven't noticed that later findings, recorded by science, disprove Michelson and Morley.

If you had any actual knowledge and experience of science, or if you took the time to think, outside of the blinkers, you would understand the ramifications of this, which are a constant predicament in the scientific world. Like all of the other bungles, the heads of science have to find a way of getting around it without losing face, and most importantly, funding. How do you think everyone would react if they, the hallowed genius's suddenly announced, we were wrong about 'the experiment' (in this case Michelson and Morley, case number.... well it's been going on since its conception) and have been for the last century. We must now update, or destroy all text books, journals, qualifications, and findings based on the bungle. However... have no fear...science is here! We will now, finally, lead you all out of darkness, into the light, again, and don't worry we are still the supreme intelligence...keep the funding coming.

Again, because of the seperatist blinkers, you unconsciously go for the 'I'm alright Jack...#!#! you' approach to American children being gunned down in schools. You fail to see the obvious links, and patterns between our societies.

I have no problem, and enjoy, imagining a world where there is no need to build weapons or have wars. A world where each unique culture and person inspires and respects each other. Where people don't fear each other, but feel connected and fullfilled. Imagine the energy going into fear, domination, separation, war, weapons, frustration, terrorism, abuse, depression, pouring into the opposites. Our education system teaches separation, from day one. It is little wonder our world is the way it is. Imagine our children of the future looking back. Imagine them seeing, that was the country that set the the example that got the ball rolling. That was the country that had the guts to be honest, to right wrongs. The guts to dream, and the incredible, awesome spirit to change. The one that taught a new way that lead to this world, where all of us kids feel awesome, fullfilled and stoked. You wouldn't have to force anyone to to respect you. There would be nothing missing.

[Namaste]

Originally Posted by Uplift

you can't even see that Sai Baba is alive

Uplift, you are confusing me with someone else. I know perfectly well that Sai Baba is still alive and lives not far from Bangalore. In fact, several of my friends went to a school established by him. I have *politely* asked you for your NASA and Sai Baba story instead you choose to focus on my actual knowledge and my blinkers.

I really do not like the tone of this so-called discussion. There is only so many times I will tolerate your foam-at-the-mouth personal attacks in response to my comment that the reason photoreading isn't beight taught at schools is because social policy is affected by something other than common sense.

You are aggressive and disrespectful. If you entertain a possibility of ever allowing others to empathise with your point of view you'll have to learn to tone it down a little.

Cheers.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Namaste

Uplift, you are confusing me with someone else. I know perfectly well that Sai Baba is still alive and lives not far from Bangalore. In fact, several of my friends went to a school established by him. I have *politely* asked you for your NASA and Sai Baba story instead you choose to focus on my actual knowledge and my blinkers.

I really do not like the tone of this so-called discussion. There is only so many times I will tolerate your foam-at-the-mouth personal attacks in response to my comment that the reason photoreading isn't beight taught at schools is because social policy is affected by something other than common sense.

You are aggressive and disrespectful. If you entertain a possibility of ever allowing others to empathise with your point of view you'll have to learn to tone it down a little.



Cheers.

Namaste, practise what you preach. And make a bit of realistic effort to find out about Sai Baba and NASA, if you are actually interested. You seem to be able to garner info when it suits you, and ignore it when it doesn't support you. I have a tolerance level as well, and will tolerate baseless, blinkered vision and time wasting for only so long. Photo reading has also been endorsed by some world renowned teachers and organisations. Also, there is life beyond a quick google search.

[Brutha]

If I google E. W. Silvertooth, I get sites like Unusual Research Home Page, Suppression, Censorship and Dogmatism in Science and Infinite Energy Magazine
Sounds rather like conspiracy theory.
On one science minded forum they say:

So how is this unpublished paper going to convince the skeptic of EGT when the experimental reporting is below the quality of my undergraduate physics notebook? [...]
Also there is no error analysis from Silvertooth and his experimental setup is literally shaky.

Papers have to be published to get accepted as scientific knowledge.

'The unfortunate Morley and Michelson' experiment is the reason western education continued to wrongly teach and assume, that all things are unconnected and separate.

Their is an infinitive amount of metaphysical explanations for a given phenomen. You could call a deterministic universe connected because every event is connect by a chain of course and effect to every other event.
You have to leave the paradigmn of "Words mean what common sense tells you" to understand science. Obviously you can't.

Even The American Journal of Science has described Michelson and Morley's experiment as 'the most successful failed experiment'.

They call it that way, because the experiment wanted to prove that their is Aether but failed to do so.
On the other hand the findings layed theoretical groundwork for modern science which can live quite wel without the Aether hypothesis.

And make a bit of realistic effort to find out about Sai Baba and NASA, if you are actually interested.

If you are the one who makes such a claim you have the burdon of proof of providing the story that connects this thread, Sai Baba and the NASA.

Also, there is life beyond a quick google search.

If you make the claim, you have to back it up. It isn't the
responsibilty of your opponents to guess which story you could mean and search for it.
Whe you do make claims you have to back them up.

Photo reading has also been endorsed by some world renowned teachers and organisations.

I don't know of any Fortune 500 comany or similar sized organisation that trains their employes in Photoreading.
If you know of one I would be happy to hear it.
But till then you have the burdon of naming those organisations.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Brutha

If you are the one who makes such a claim you have the burdon of proof of providing the story that conects this thread, Sai Baba and the NASA.
If you make the claim, you have to back it up. It isn't the responsibilty of your opponents to guess which story you coul mean and search for it.
Whe you do make claims you have to back them up.

I fully support your view on this... that is the way it usually works in every forum that I ever participated in...

.

[Uplift]

Tony Robbins endorses photoreading. If you insist, Shamou and Brutha, have your way, believe its a scam and hoax. So where does that leave you Shamou, considering your constant promotion of Tony Robbins? Is your life based on a scammer...a hoaxer? Will you now study and become 'an adept' in the works of Brutha? Go team! Who will be the captain...looks like you Brutha.

NASA did go to see Sai Baba, as have an endless stream of people, including many world leaders and respected people from societies all over the world. As are most visitors who get to meet and speak with him, they were literally dumbfounded. I have the books recording the incident packed away in boxes, as it all happened around 20 years ago. It happened just prior to me meeting and speaking with Sai Baba, and the place was still buzzing and laughing about the whole thing. The reason I went to see Sai Baba, is because Alexander Everret, who was considered a leader in the field of self development (well he was fairly imminent, considering he had no Chiropratic Certificate...the key to superior, limitless 'adeption' ), along the lines of Tony Robinns, had done so, and unpopularly announced to everyone that after doing so, was forced to reassess and change his whole way of thinking and teaching. ...Well I think he was a leader in his field, but I have never 'googled' him, so perhaps he wasn't. As I am not afraid to try things outside of my beliefs, I wanted to look. I will find the books, which detailed the whole NASA thing, including photo's but it will take time. In the mean time, you can continue to think it is baseless lies, or delerium, if it makes your day.

In your very first contact with me Shamou, you accused me of being full of it, in your smug fashion. The person I mentioned that you couldn't google, was an absolute genius, who saved many world champions careers, as well as many other peoples lives, and quality of life. He also worked tirelessly, for free, with underprivileged and homeless children. The letters of thanks, praise and endorsements he recieved are very moving and amazing, as are the magazine and newspaper articles about him. He died in tragic circumstances, and your dismissal of him is sad. His crime was his methods, which flew in the face of science, even though they worked awesomely, and consistently, when absolutely nothing else would. Yet despite constant predudice, he kept his aim in sight. Believe it or not, google isn't the only definitive source of knowledge, nor is science.

You don't like my assesment of the way that people that lived happy and fullfilled lives, on the land you proudly call home, and did so for much, much longer than you, suffered, and still suffer. It is confronting, and I am passionate about it. If you think that what I have said is false, what do you think happened? How do you think your way of life, which includes your scientific world view and education system came to occupy the lives and homes of Indigenous Peoples. I can't see success, peace, or lastin fullfillment coming from a style of thinking that can ignore, and finally oblitherate the rights of others. Your scientific world view is your right, but it is not your right to forcibly impose it on others, who would like a different way of life, or who might like to change.

In the end the whole thing is sad. Does the education system leave you poor was the question. Kids are shot at school, in school, in the care of school, sometimes by other students. I find that unbelievably appalling. What could be poorer? Imagine going to Anthony Robbins seminars surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards. Imagine people gunned down in them. Would you feel safe, secure, fullfilled, awesome, rich? Would you keep going to them? If you were shot, would you listen to someone telling you that everything is great, it's nothing to do with the seminars, or the way of life and education system of the country you were shot in? We are talking about kids... children.

Anyway, back to more important things, my real opponents await me. There are more pressing issues. I must prove I am not full of #!##. The kids can wait. Who will be the master of debate, the true champion!

[Uplift]

Two more students, in Australia, have just been suspended from Crookwell Highschool in Goulburn NSW, after it was dicovered they were planning to shoot students.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Tony Robbins endorses photoreading. If you insist, Shamou and Brutha, have your way, believe its a scam and hoax. So where does that leave you Shamou, considering your constant promotion of Tony Robbins? Is your life based on a scammer...a hoaxer? Will you now study and become 'an adept' in the works of Brutha? Go team! Who will be the captain...looks like you Brutha.

NASA did go to see Sai Baba, as have an endless stream of people, including many world leaders and respected people from societies all over the world. As are most visitors who get to meet and speak with him, they were literally dumbfounded. I have the books recording the incident packed away in boxes, as it all happened around 20 years ago. It happened just prior to me meeting and speaking with Sai Baba, and the place was still buzzing and laughing about the whole thing. The reason I went to see Sai Baba, is because Alexander Everret, who was considered a leader in the field of self development (well he was fairly imminent, considering he had no Chiropratic Certificate...the key to superior, limitless 'adeption' ), along the lines of Tony Robinns, had done so, and unpopularly announced to everyone that after doing so, was forced to reassess and change his whole way of thinking and teaching. ...Well I think he was a leader in his field, but I have never 'googled' him, so perhaps he wasn't. As I am not afraid to try things outside of my beliefs, I wanted to look. I will find the books, which detailed the whole NASA thing, including photo's but it will take time. In the mean time, you can continue to think it is baseless lies, or delerium, if it makes your day.

In your very first contact with me Shamou, you accused me of being full of it, in your smug fashion. The person I mentioned that you couldn't google, was an absolute genius, who saved many world champions careers, as well as many other peoples lives, and quality of life. He also worked tirelessly, for free, with underprivileged and homeless children. The letters of thanks, praise and endorsements he recieved are very moving and amazing, as are the magazine and newspaper articles about him. He died in tragic circumstances, and your dismissal of him is sad. His crime was his methods, which flew in the face of science, even though they worked awesomely, and consistently, when absolutely nothing else would. Yet despite constant predudice, he kept his aim in sight. Believe it or not, google isn't the only definitive source of knowledge, nor is science.

You don't like my assesment of the way that people that lived happy and fullfilled lives, on the land you proudly call home, and did so for much, much longer than you, suffered, and still suffer. It is confronting, and I am passionate about it. If you think that what I have said is false, what do you think happened? How do you think your way of life, which includes your scientific world view and education system came to occupy the lives and homes of Indigenous Peoples. I can't see success, peace, or lastin fullfillment coming from a style of thinking that can ignore, and finally oblitherate the rights of others. Your scientific world view is your right, but it is not your right to forcibly impose it on others, who would like a different way of life, or who might like to change.

In the end the whole thing is sad. Does the education system leave you poor was the question. Kids are shot at school, in school, in the care of school, sometimes by other students. I find that unbelievably appalling. What could be poorer? Imagine going to Anthony Robbins seminars surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards. Imagine people gunned down in them. Would you feel safe, secure, fullfilled, awesome, rich? Would you keep going to them? If you were shot, would you listen to someone telling you that everything is great, it's nothing to do with the seminars, or the way of life and education system of the country you were shot in? We are talking about kids... children.

Anyway, back to more important things, my real opponents await me. There are more pressing issues. I must prove I am not full of #!##. The kids can wait. Who will be the master of debate, the true champion!

I will not engage in a post that reflects the attitude of this one...

.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Shamou

I will not engage in a post that reflects the attitude of this one...

.

That is your right, if only Indigenous Peoples were afforded the same right.

[1000feet]

Originally Posted by Uplift

I have the books recording the incident packed away in boxes, as it all happened around 20 years ago.

What will happen to humanity when people faced with a new concept only turn to Google instead of going to a stranger's house and rooting through their attic to find a diary from 20 years ago? Come on!

Originally Posted by Uplift

Well I think he was a leader in his field, but I have never 'googled' him, so perhaps he wasn't.

This is what people should be learning! True knowledge doesn't come from "widely accepted facts" that are published and republished everywhere without credible challengers, it comes from baseless assumptions! And don't even think of doing "research" to back them up... Do you think the indigenous people of north america wanted to "google" the europeans before cooperating with them? DO YOU? DO YOU?!?!?! Even if google existed, it would all be a conspiracy to suppress them!



WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES! AND SCHOOL SHOOTINGS! NASA! EINSTEIN!

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by 1000feet

What will happen to humanity when people faced with a new concept only turn to Google instead of going to a stranger's house and rooting through their attic to find a diary from 20 years ago? Come on!



This is what people should be learning! True knowledge doesn't come from "widely accepted facts" that are published and republished everywhere without credible challengers, it comes from baseless assumptions! And don't even think of doing "research" to back them up... Do you think the indigenous people of north america wanted to "google" the europeans before cooperating with them? DO YOU? DO YOU?!?!?! Even if google existed, it would all be a conspiracy to suppress them!




WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES! AND SCHOOL SHOOTINGS! NASA! EINSTEIN!

I said book, a report by someone else, not dairy. Wrong assumption, shaped by the outcome you want. Not all information is on google, and the information that is on there can be misconstrued if thinking is biased, or blinkered. For instance another poster wrongly assumed that Sai Baba was dead after misconstruing a google search.

Stoked, I agree with you about thinking of Indigenous Peoples, and creating an education system that promotes it. I agree, it is much more valuable than heading for Mars, or clinging to the past. Keep it up!

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by 1000feet

True knowledge doesn't come from "widely accepted facts" that are published and republished everywhere without credible challengers, it comes from baseless assumptions!

Yup... we should be learning from every crackpot who's invented a new mousetrap...

.

[Namaste]

Originally Posted by 1000feet

WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES! AND SCHOOL SHOOTINGS! NASA! EINSTEIN!

1000feet, you crack me up

[Uplift]

Sham, welcome back buddy! This little back slapp'n, safety in numbers thing you guys have got happening is funny! I've never felt or had the need, so I can't say I comprehend it though. Luckily, if it all gets too much you've always got Sham's bulldog dog to protect ya's,. Again, never felt or had the need.

But, seriously, for the people that are interested, in reference to the actual question the thread is about, and while all this 'bro's in arms' is going on, here's the latest ninemsn.com.au headlines on whats happening in schools.

'Monday Jun 04, 2007
The schoolyard fight has gone global, with students now organising "fight clubs" where brawls are filmed for a chance at fame.

Cheats prosper: Sneaky kids getting into top schools.'

I wonder why this is happening, who are the kids learning this from...sorry I forgot it isn't happening, its just unscientific hearsay.

[Ibanez]

School isn't the greatest. Financial literacy is practically non-existent. Plus just because a school teaches it doesn't mean the students will follow the advice.

However, I think if you don't want to be forever indebted to mindless servitude waste of time/talent jobs get a college degree or have a business idea/plan to follow through.

After the last job I had I realized why some people are poor, mainly they are stupid.

[Uplift]

Ibanez, I agree that a lot of people are poor because they don't perform well, and are unable to do the things that mean otherwise. But I don't think they are stupid. I just don't think our overall cultural way of thinking and education system is designed to teach people the important, unique things about themselves, or to equip them with the self esteem, and tools to know and follow their dreams and be fullfilled. It suits a few, and some kids are blessed with the parents and/or environment and/or individual makeup they have. As you have experienced, not everyone is successful, and I don't see that as a good situation for anyone. I am certain it could be a completely different, entirely more successful situation if we recognise and acknowledge where we are at, and choose an alternative path that benefits us all.

[1000feet]

Originally Posted by Uplift

here's the latest ninemsn.com.au headlines on whats happening in schools.

'Monday Jun 04, 2007
The schoolyard fight has gone global, with students now organising "fight clubs" where brawls are filmed for a chance at fame.

Cheats prosper: Sneaky kids getting into top schools.'

I wonder why this is happening, who are the kids learning this from...sorry I forgot it isn't happening, its just unscientific hearsay.

Let's update the scoreboard...

Internet: 0
Books hidden away in someone's attic for 20 years, not kept in circulation or even talked about despite having very important information: 1
Media stories that either take isolated events and blow them out of proportion, or try to make old stories "news": 1

Then again, those headlines were from a website... so are they part of the internet or the media? I'm so confused...

[Ibanez]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Ibanez, I agree that a lot of people are poor because they don't perform well, and are unable to do the things that mean otherwise. But I don't think they are stupid. I just don't think our overall cultural way of thinking and education system is designed to teach people the important, unique things about themselves, or to equip them with the self esteem, and tools to know and follow their dreams and be fullfilled. It suits a few, and some kids are blessed with the parents and/or environment and/or individual makeup they have. As you have experienced, not everyone is successful, and I don't see that as a good situation for anyone. I am certain it could be a completely different, entirely more successful situation if we recognise and acknowledge where we are at, and choose an alternative path that benefits us all.

Well, I guess I could have substituted stupid with uneducated instead, but the same point is made. They don't make the right decisions and they don't have any higher level skill of some sort. I believe at some point you have to man up and say "I'm sick of this ************!" and do something to overcome your situation.

[Uplift]

[QUOTE=1000feet;77368 I'm so confused...[/QUOTE]

1000feet, there's nothing to be confused about. Ignoring it and playing games won't do a thing about it. It's also insulting to the people involved.

[Lychee]

Is this the Sai Baba everyone's talking about?

Sathya Sai Baba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Lychee

Is this the Sai Baba everyone's talking about?

Sathya Sai Baba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Could there be two people in the whole wide world named Sai Baba...

.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Could there be two people in the whole wide world named Sai Baba...

.

The link above is about a Sai Baba who says he is an incarnation of the first Sai Baba.