Well rounded? Not selfish?

[Cron]

I was talking with my father's second wife the other day. She is a retired high school English teacher who is intellectually and politically active.

Why she retired from teaching came up and her reason shocked me. Since she has a tendency to be cranky I thought she would mention something that many teachers give as their reason for retiring early: getting burned out dealing with the kids, their parents or the school bureaucracy.

She taught honors and gifted students toward the end of her career. She would always get very involved with each class of these kids and would ask them what they wanted out of life as well as what motivated their goals. These creme of the crop honors students would more often than not be motivated by helping people, helping the world, or achieving something great.

Then in the 80s she saw that these trends started tapering off and the answers she would get to her question would always be a variation of "make a lot of money, be very rich".

She told me that the last generation of high school kids she taught just got too selfish for her. She found it to be demotivating and along with other issues she decided to retire early.

When I hit "New Posts" on this page all I see are variations of things like

"How do I get rich quick?"
"What are you going to do when you are rich?"
"How do I make money off of my blog?"
"How can I get laid more?"
"How can I have some other psychic experience that makes me special?"

The title of what Steve is into is "Personal Development".....developing the person.

I'm not against making money, but isn't there more to a person.....and personal development than making money, glorifying yourself, and satisfying your desires?

I see threads about world concerns going unreplied to.

I never see threads about exploring culture and education.........getting well rounded.......if it isn't about reading some ancient teaching about how to get some sort of superpower.

So, what is your personal development about beyond your selfish ( but fine )concerns beyond making money and being someone superior to other people?

How are you developing the person in your personal development to help the world, help others, and round that person out who is educated about, aware of things beyond your daily concerns?

[bellbird]

Dear Cron, I like your posts, I really do. (I think we discussed recycling and that a while ago.)

You bring up an excellent point and very true too! I have noticed the same thing. I think we live in a very selfish age for man unfortunately: instant gratification, whether it be McDonalds (food) or online forums/self help books or people (sex,love,friendship) or Kmart. Whatever. You get the picture.... it has to be quick and satisfying, like NOW

I try to hope and believe though that there are plenty of people too who see the other side of that and who choose to live consciously and with love for others. What's my bit? I offer a listening ear, respect, joy and laughs to my customers as I work in a furniture/interior design store. A lot of people are either cynical, confused, dissapointed or sad, but also thank goodness I meet fun and silly creative people who make me laugh in turn. Life is good, it's what you make it and what you choose it to be (well most times anyway )

Other bits: my partner and I have bought a farm and we will set that up to share with others. We agree we have not bought our large property just for us. In a few years we will start building units/cabins on it (council/God willing ). We wish it to be a place people can rest, take time out, find themselves, meditate, whatever: a place of comfort and peace: a retreat.

More bits; a farmlife includes animals, and already we 'inherited' a sheepsdog from the previous owner who needs love and attention more then food, allthough we give him plenty of that too. I'm not a doctor but I do feel we can all do more for others. being attentive and helpful goes a long way. I'm no saint by any means and do have my bitchy sides which I'm aware off , I'm human after all.

Having said that Cron, I strongly believe in: set the example and others will follow. My partner and I set the example by emigrating and building up a life. We work hard and focus on where we want to go and what we can do.I think we are an example for other people, young and old. I hope that by doing what we do we will encourage others to follow their dreams: be bold and go for it. You will regret not doing it because when the opportunaity has gone it's sour if you no longer can.

So that's my 2c anyhow. If you have anymore suggestions Cron on what else I could do, let me know. I'm a work in progress you know
All the best to you

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Cron

How are you developing the person in your personal development to help the world, help others, and round that person out who is educated about, aware of things beyond your daily concerns?

.

[bellbird]

Maybe Cron means that: as we visit this forum you could assume we all have the aspiration to grow and learn. Isn't the idea that by developing yourself and becoming a 'better' person that you would be in a position to share that knowledge?

So probably it's an idea for another thread (unless this direction is where Cron is happy to go): is self development a selfish activity to only better ourselves (and other people have to figure stuff out for themselves) or one to share wisdom and care for others by growing ourselves? If the latter is applicable then what are you doing really for others being a smart educated person? Do you step up to the social plate or are you an egotistical person? (Self gratification (ego) or long term social responsibility (lightworker))

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cron
How are you developing the person in your personal development to help the world, help others, and round that person out who is educated about, aware of things beyond your daily concerns?

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Shamou

.

Yeah, I wasn't clear what the question was either.

I'm not sure being selfish is bad. If those honor students are ambitious and want to be rich, they are going to have to provide value to the world. They may end up helping people a lot more then someone who wants to save the Earth and thus spends all their time in fruitless campaigning.

It kind of goes to Steve's description of darkworkers and lightworkers. You can guess which one I'm leaning toward.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Yeah, I wasn't clear what the question was either.

I'm not sure being selfish is bad. If those honor students are ambitious and want to be rich, they are going to have to provide value to the world. They may end up helping people a lot more then someone who wants to save the Earth and thus spends all their time in fruitless campaigning.

Well, one thing that I know for sure is that, you can't give what you don't have... and, if you don't look out for number one (yourself) you certainly cannot look out for anyone else...

My philosophy is based on, "egoistic-altruism." I have created success for myself and now it creates a ripple effect... I can now help others...

Now, I strongly believe that there is nothing wrong with trying to save Planet Earth... just don't lose yourself in the process...

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[Shamou]

About "Personal Development" from here...

"Personal Development is the deliberate growth or development of a particular individual to bring out their potential and capabilities making them more aware of their inner feelings, belief systems to become a more conscious, whole or healthy human being."

.

[RT Wolf]

You make a good point. I think a lot of people are starting to think like Shamou, where "charity starts at home" if you will.

This guy believes humans working in self-interest will actually save us:

TED | Talks | Robert Wright: How cooperation (eventually) trumps conflict (video)

If you're cynical, you can say that working "for the greater good" or "for others" is also selfish because it makes you feel good to give (and there's some evolutionary psych theses on that).

I've been thinking more about why I'm into personal development lately. It was, like Steve, almost reactionary when I first started almost a year ago. Lately I've been wondering if there isn't a more noble purpose for it than simply improving myself, so I've started to contribute more. Started a blog, and I'm going to be giving speeches on personal finance to students for freez to help them learn about it, too.

Ironically, working in self-interest can do really well for hte world. Look at hte countries with an established idealogy of individualism (granted, I'm not well-versed enough to make any credible claim), but it seems to me by comparing my own two cultures that the country that supports individualism and growth (in general) is doing way, way better than the country that does not.

Hmm, I see what you mean. I think that that has to dow ith teh way that PD is sold. "Improve your love life!" "Make more money!" There is indeed a huge focus on improving you first, but as Steve is demonstrating, you can do lots of good and still make money.

[Mayo]

Maker more money, be better at sex , be smarter... ....

hmmmm...

well imagine that you work and work and work for others and you get no return... just like your teacher did...

Now imagine working on your self for your self and attracting the people who really want to learn...

Kids are smart, like my 14 year old cousin in Italy... he knows how the world is operating and is curious in the intricacies of it (politics, science, business, metaphysics..), even the 10 year olds know how the world works... This is age of altruistic uber-individualism.

What does it worth to preach if you cant show it your self... i actually dislike the philosophic gnomes (i was like that few years ago ) who talk about betterment of humanity but are actually miserable sick beings and are nothing more than sociopaths who disguise in someone who cares about others..

The real person will work on it's weaknesses, destroy them and build a new foundation on the ravaged ground. Yes the new foundations may collapse but if person learns how to build a-new it will be easier to construct something healthy standing in his lifetime.

[Cron]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Yeah, I wasn't clear what the question was either.

I think that is an example of the issue I brought up.

"Personal Development" should be about developing the person. Your question shows that "developing the person" isn't even on the radar of people posting on this "personal development" site, let alone being something they understand and are concerned about.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Cron

I think that is an example of the issue I brought up.

"Personal Development" should be about developing the person. Your question shows that "developing the person" isn't even on the radar of people posting on this "personal development" site, let alone being something they understand and are concerned about.

A definition of "Personal Development" was given in post #7 and here it is again...

"Personal Development is the deliberate growth or development of a particular individual to bring out their potential and capabilities making them more aware of their inner feelings, belief systems to become a more conscious, whole or healthy human being."

What is your definition...??? In your opening post I got the impression that it was education and culture... which is what you should get in school and not in a forum on PD...

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[Cron]

Originally Posted by Shamou

A definition of "Personal Development" was given in post #7 and here it is again...

Do you have an opinion of your own? It seems like many of the posters here do not. It seems like it is always about

- Steve said this
- This blog said that
- This is the software Steve uses
- This is the toilet paper this blogger wipes her ass with

What do you think? More importantly......*why*?

There might be more to life that what bloggers tell you there is. There might even be more to getting rich doing what worked for Steve or others.

I don't mean any insult and now that I have thought about it I see a succinct way of expressing what I am trying to get across. I think many of the posts on this board reflect that people here, from my view, have a tendency to be tunnel visioned....maybe even provincial in being totally unaware of what is out there in life, spirituality and even in the business of getting rich.

In your opening post I got the impression that it was education and culture... which is what you should get in school and not in a forum on PD...

It is what you should go after on your own, from your own motivation and decide for yourself if you want to be a more complete person instead of a person who is just spoon fed...whether the spoon comes from a blog or a college.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Cron

Do you have an opinion of your own? It seems like many of the posters here do not. It seems like it is always about

- Steve said this
- This blog said that
- This is the software Steve uses
- This is the toilet paper this blogger wipes her ass with

What do you think? More importantly......*why*?

There might be more to life that what bloggers tell you there is.

Before I ever heard of Steve, I already knew that being selfish was good for the world. I referenced Steve in my posts, because I presume, with 358 posts of your own on this forum, you hold his opinion in high esteem, or you wouldn't bother participate in his forum. Unless you are a troll.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Cron

....Do you have an opinion of your own? It seems like many of the posters here do not.......It is what you should go after on your own, from your own motivation and decide for yourself if you want to be a more complete person instead of a person who is just spoon fed...whether the spoon comes from a blog or a college.

Cron I have to agree with you on this.
People have to learn to think for themselves and learn to apply the good advice they get here but only if and as it pertains to their situation.

I also agree that selfishness as in "self-serving" and more money, more this or that for "me", has little to do with personal development.

My own definition is:

"Personal development is not measured by financial or social success.
Instead it is determined by our efforts to develop our intellectual, physical and spiritual aspects in order to reach our full potential.
In the process of developing ourselves, we also strive to express our talents and abilities in order to help and benefit others".

From: Human Potential

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Cron
Do you have an opinion of your own? It seems like many of the posters here do not.

Opinions don’t grow on tree stumps… opinions are personal reflections based on theories advanced by others…

And in this forum… members have a tendency to back up their personal opinion on theories also advanced by others… And, most opinion that are not substantiated that way are mostly “crackpots’” reflections… worthless at best and funny in the best cases…

I think many of the posts on this board reflect that people here, from my view, have a tendency to be tunnel visioned....maybe even provincial in being totally unaware of what is out there in life, spirituality and even in the business of getting rich.

Quite condescending… but you are certainly entitled to your own opinion…

It is what you should go after on your own, from your own motivation and decide for yourself if you want to be a more complete person instead of a person who is just spoon fed...whether the spoon comes from a blog or a college.

.

[Mayo]

Most of us here are not tunnel visioned, au contraire we have wide spectrum of life circumstances, age differences, nationality, ... every one of us is different, not only on this forum but world-wide..

This forum difference is that most of us want to change something on us, construct better life for us and for our community(family, city, nation, region, world... ) for the better.. if you think you can change the community by being average.. then go and change the world by being average... but world is not pushed forward by the average but by the exceptional people who have vision and the means... this is material reality so in the material reality you have to own material richness besides that of spiritual richness!


BR,
Patrick

[bellbird]

Pity some cynical remarks are made here. It's a good topic. Cron, eventhough I understand the start of your initial thread, and think to understand where you are coming from, I wonder about the:

Do you have an opinion of your own? It seems like many of the posters here do not. It seems like it is always about
- Steve said this
- This blog said that
- This is the software Steve uses
- This is the toilet paper this blogger wipes her ass with
What do you think? More importantly......*why*?

You seem to be rattling people a bit Cron... why? Why would you? (Again I understand to a point but why are you frustrated with them?)
I don't think I have modeled myself onto other bloggers. Steve does his own thing and good on him. He's no guru and I don't think he aspires to become one. I understand that you might feel many here are referring to his words (it's his website after all) and that they sometimes appear not to make a firm stand on whatever (I don't say that I would agree with that statement 100% though. I don't mean that evady, I'm just being carefull not to put a judgement there, as I have not read everyone's postings.) I have my own theory why I do what I do with my life. As it is, some of it I don't want to share with others because I don't need their opinion/approval/whatever. I do my own thing. I've already put that above. Why do I do what I do? because I believe in something and I have a vision. I will leave it at that .

I agree with Shamou's:

"Personal Development is the deliberate growth or development of a particular individual to bring out their potential and capabilities making them more aware of their inner feelings, belief systems to become a more conscious, whole or healthy human being."

Bingo. Ding-ding-ding.
Fine, excellent, no problemo. Why would it be?
I think your question is Cron, if people are so 'noble' and working on growing themselves why the blazes do we not have a peacefull happy healthy planet and why are we not living in glorious harmonic splendor? Good point. My thoughts therefore are that we all choose our own vision of that world we want to live in and we all choose how to go about it. We are responsible for ourselves. We don't decide for others. End of story. But that doesn't mean we can help others, eventhough their way might be different from our own. That's not Mother Teresa stuff that's common sense. You don't have to have a degree for that. I think that some people who are generally called 'intelligently challenged' can say very profound things. Just because one's a plippin Einstein, that doesn't mean one's supposed to have the allmighty answers. Actually it's most likely you don't if you're Einsteiny. Teachings can inhibit instead of gaining that experiental knowledge which is gained by PD or the game called Life.

If people get immersed in PD great, but there's no point telling them how to go about their lives and what their version of their PD experience should be. As you can tell from the replys you are receiving... to each their own. It's a free world. Hurrah! Now let's boogie. God, it's getting too serious .

[Shamou]

Good post bellbird...

You have pointed out that criticizing without offering a tangible solution is of little value... except maybe giving the critic a little ego boost..

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[bellbird]

haha Shamou that's sweet, thanks. Hey I can't help myself I love people (still chuckling)

[Mark Lapierre]

To me personal development is about learning, and about improving myself. It's personal. If that makes it selfish, so be it. *shrug*

Cron, I can see where your opinion of some people's tunnel vision comes from, though I suspect in quite a few cases, including mine, that references to other's posts is simply for the sake of efficiency. Why rewrite what someone else has written if the message is going to be the same?

However, when someone does rewrite what someone else has written, in a way that shows they didn't understand the original or their version, then there is a problem. But they may not even be aware of it. My response to those situations is to give a nudge in what I think is the right direction, with the understanding that my opinion of the right direction is not necessarily any more accurate than theirs.

But if possible I won't just shout, "you're going the wrong way!"

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

To me personal development is about learning, and about improving myself. It's personal. If that makes it selfish, so be it. *shrug*

Cron, I can see where your opinion of some people's tunnel vision comes from, though I suspect in quite a few cases, including mine, that references to other's posts is simply for the sake of efficiency. Why rewrite what someone else has written if the message is going to be the same?

However, when someone does rewrite what someone else has written, in a way that shows they didn't understand the original or their version, then there is a problem. But they may not even be aware of it. My response to those situations is to give a nudge in what I think is the right direction, with the understanding that my opinion of the right direction is not necessarily any more accurate than theirs.

But if possible I won't just shout, "you're going the wrong way!"

Good post Mark... and very well said...

.

[AdamUK]

To me, people here are some of the least selfish and good caring people ive never met. They are always up for helping others with their problems and are understanding and open minded to peoples views and opinions. How nice they are!

[Cron]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Good post bellbird...

You have pointed out that criticizing without offering a tangible solution is of little value... except maybe giving the critic a little ego boost..

.

That is your problem, you are waiting for someone to give you the answers.

Okay, I will give you one. Think for yourself, think about something besides yourself, and think beyond yourself.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Cron

That is your problem, you are waiting for someone to give you the answers.

Okay, I will give you one. Think for yourself, think about something besides yourself, and think beyond yourself.

Why did I not think of that...???

.

[Brutha]

Originally Posted by seeker5

you hold his opinion in high esteem, or you wouldn't bother participate in his forum. Unless you are a troll.

Very dangerous thinking. Just because someone has a different opinion than you, doesn't mean his intentions are bad.

Follow the Guru and everyone how disagrees with him is bad, is the worst kind of groupthink.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Very dangerous thinking. Just because someone has a different opinion than you, doesn't mean his intentions are bad.

Follow the Guru and everyone how disagrees with him is bad, is the worst kind of groupthink.

I agree with what you wrote there. I can also see how you could have misunderstood the intent of my post, because my intent wasn't what you perceived my post to be.