Does an "evil" person exist?

[hamix]

Who defines it? why do the media perpetuate labelling persons as evil? This applies to persons such as Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, etc.

it is common knowledge that evil doesn't really exist, perhaps the media need to get with the programme.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by hamix

it is common knowledge that evil doesn't really exist, perhaps the media need to get with the programme.

"Common knowledge" = your own opinion is fact?

Whether you want to call it evil, or negative, or narcissistic, or greedy etc., it's true that there are "evil" people out there.

Here are a few easily understandable examples to help differentiate "good" from "evil":

1. An evil person sacrifices others for his own good; a good person sacrifices himself for the good of others.

2. An evil person attacks the weak; a good person protects the weak.

3. An evil person is greedy and selfish; a good person is generous and charitable.

If you look at Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein, they both fit the evil mold. They both hoarded billions of dollars of oil revenue that came from their countries' resources while the normal citizens suffered in poverty without food or clean water. They both killed their own countrymen for opposing their regimes. They both acted as absolute dictators and disregarded the needs and desires of their citizens. They both put their own desires above the needs of others.

[elucidate]

Yeah, I don't get people who deny that evil exists and that there are no evil people or evil actions.

I think you also said somewhere else that there is no such thing as hypocrisy in humans.

I have to ask...what planet are you from?

We all contain aspects of being human that are both what is considered "Good" and "Evil".

Most people strive to keep things on the good side, though by denying that the evil side exists in them they usually end up acting in evil ways unconsciously without realizing it...it's called projection.(Think Christians who bomb abortion doctors to death...because it's "God's Will".)

[taylor]

I don't think evil as such exists either hamix.

Look at nature. Is a lion evil when it rips apart nearby prey? What about when it kills another lion for dominance of a territory? What about when it has plenty of food and attacks other animals just for kicks? Not evil, just nature. The lion is seeking pleasure, avoiding pain.

Look at what humans do that is so-called evil. Killing other humans for money, dominance of a territory or public policy. Hunting animals for sport, or even serial killing for their enjoyment. It's in their nature to pursue that. Seeking pleasure, avoiding pain.

And yet we call humans evil and lions neutral why? Because we project our personal standards onto other people but we don't project those standards onto lions. So where is this good and evil but in your own mind, projected outwards?

I try to not put my standards on others but instead see them as a part of nature to be accepted as they are. But just as we wouldn't let a lion loose to eat our neighbors and family, neither should we be passive in the face of people who wish to harm others. This has nothing to do with punishment though.

"To understand everything is to forgive everything." - Buddha

[elucidate]

Because Lions don't have consciences...we do, or at least most of us do. Lions kill for food...not for fun.

It may be in the serial killers nature to do what they do for pleasure, but their actions are purely selfish, and that is what is evil. They do not consider the harm it brings upon the family of the person they killed. Their pleasure is all that matters to them in their little universe. Meanwhile the murder victims family are left to pick up the pieces, and make sense of something that makes no sense.

Animals kill and it isn't cruel or personal...they kill to eat. We kill to eat animals, but some also kill just for the fun of it. No animal does that. Killer whales play with their prey before they kill them, but they still kill and eat them.

Originally Posted by taylor

I don't think evil as such exists either hamix.

Look at nature. Is a lion evil when it rips apart nearby prey? What about when it kills another lion for dominance of a territory? What about when it has plenty of food and attacks other animals just for kicks? Not evil, just nature. The lion is seeking pleasure, avoiding pain.

Look at what humans do that is so-called evil. Killing other humans for money, dominance of a territory or public policy. Hunting animals for sport, or even serial killing for their enjoyment. It's in their nature to pursue that. Seeking pleasure, avoiding pain.

And yet we call humans evil and lions neutral why? Because we project our personal standards onto other people but we don't project those standards onto lions. So where is this good and evil but in your own mind, projected outwards?

I try to not put my standards on others but instead see them as a part of nature to be accepted as they are. But just as we wouldn't let a lion loose to eat our neighbors and family, neither should we be passive in the face of people who wish to harm others. This has nothing to do with punishment though.

"To understand everything is to forgive everything." - Buddha

[illbreaker]

I suppose Hitler was not evil? What about child molestors?

[taylor]

I don't get it.

Originally Posted by elucidate

Because Lions don't have consciences...we do, or at least most of us do. Lions kill for food...not for fun.

It may be in the serial killers nature to do what they do for pleasure, but their actions are purely selfish, and that is what is evil. They do not consider the harm it brings upon the family of the person they killed. Their pleasure is all that matters to them in their little universe. Meanwhile the murder victims family are left to pick up the pieces, and make sense of something that makes no sense.

Right. The serial killer just doesn't care. Their conscience isn't there if it ever was. A lot of humans don't have that empathetic part of their psyche and for many more it gets deadened early on. What about someone like Jeffrey Dahmer who claims to have felt intense remorse for what he did even as he was doing it. Is Dahmer evil but a true sociopath serial killer without a conscience is innocent? Most people think the sociopath is "pure evil", but if violating conscience is what defines evil then this really doesn't make sense.

What about things that people disagree about morally? Is killing ok? What about in war? Can we lie? What if it's a white lie? Is polygamy ok? What about romantic relationships with the very young? What about homosexuality? What about orgys? What about rock and roll? Genital mutilation? You get the idea.

In one society something is evil and in another that same thing is good. This looks an awful lot like people projecting an artificial standard onto nature. Is there any evidence to the contrary?

Originally Posted by elucidate

Animals kill and it isn't cruel or personal...they kill to eat. We kill to eat animals, but some also kill just for the fun of it. No animal does that. Killer whales play with their prey before they kill them, but they still kill and eat them.

Plenty of animals kill purely for entertainment when conditions are conducive. My cat for example.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by taylor

Right. The serial killer just doesn't care. Their conscience isn't there if it ever was. A lot of humans don't have that empathetic part of their psyche and for many more it gets deadened early on. What about someone like Jeffrey Dahmer who claims to have felt intense remorse for what he did even as he was doing it. Is Dahmer evil but a true sociopath serial killer without a conscience is innocent? Most people think the sociopath is "pure evil", but if violating conscience is what defines evil then this really doesn't make sense.

It's more the actions that are considered evil.

I personally don't think of sociopaths as evil so much as they are the sharks of the human world. They are at the top of the foodchain and let nothing get in the way of what they want and where they want to get.

It is society labeling a group of people to make themselves feel more comfortable. True, the sociopath is merely living out it's true nature, so that in itself isn't evil. It is a way that people can feel some sort of small comfort in casting out people who do horrible things to other people who didn't deserve it, and who's families are forced to suffer the consequences of their 'indulgences'. They can't understand it, so instead they call them evil as a way of seperating them from decent people.

What about things that people disagree about morally? Is killing ok?

Most people would say if their family or Self were threatened by an intruder or someone with a weapon who was unstable, then killing them might be the only option, and maybe the best option if they are seriously dangerous.

What about in war?

Whether we like it or not, humans are warlike. It's in our nature and it's a part of our history as humans. There can be no war without death so whilst it is considered ugly and horrific, it's also considered necessary by many.

Can we lie?

Lying is so acceptable these days it's not even considered evil, just normal.

What if it's a white lie?

Depends on who you ask. Different people will have different standards as to what is ok.

Is polygamy ok?

Is that being married to more than one person? I forget?

What about romantic relationships with the very young?

On this forum that issue has been covered before, and most open minded individuals will concede that it can be acceptable, as long as both parties are consenting...depending on how young you are talking about.

What about homosexuality?

Again, depending on who you interview. Ask some hardcore christians if it's ok and you'll get a lecture about how homosexuals are the devil and are going to hell for sure.

What about orgys?

I don't think anyone considers them evil.

What about rock and roll?

Historically, this was considered the devil's music, but that didn't stop them, and most people didn't end up becoming serial killers and doing what the music told them to do played backwards subliminally.

Genital mutilation? You get the idea.

I personally think that is an archaic practise in cruelty, but cruel is not evil.

In one society something is evil and in another that same thing is good. This looks an awful lot like people projecting an artificial standard onto nature. Is there any evidence to the contrary?

Sure, it's cultural and everyone has their own ideas on what is acceptable and what isn't. The Greeks thought pedophilia was just dandy for ages...not to mention homosexuality.

Plenty of animals kill purely for entertainment when conditions are conducive. My cat for example.

Yes true. I did think of cats after I posted. Cats can be evil.

[taylor]

Wow elucidate, you answered all those questions. I'll be sure to tone down my number of rhetorical questions to give you a break.

Originally Posted by illbreaker

I suppose Hitler was not evil? What about child molestors?

They certainly appear evil if you personalize their actions and project a violation of your ethical standards onto the event, but that's all it is.

If you were an alien with no stake in the game and you were observing this planet you'd merely write down that one of the humans named Adolf Hitler slaughtered millions of other humans and note the factors that led to this. You'd look at his upbringing, conscious and unconscious values, psychology, emotional makeup, economic position, social standing, belief in the theory of Eugenics, the social milieu of Germany at the time, etc. You'd just record the facts rather than editorialize.

But as humans with a desire that things be a certain way here on earth we tend to project our own emotional investments onto neutral events. People want someone to blame, someone to be guilty so they invent the concept of the "bad guy". You can observe this over and over again throughout history and even current politics.

"It's not capitalism or human emotional vulnerabilities, it's some specific group of evil CEO's or politicians that are responsible for our problems." If only life were so simple. Actually Hitler himself employed this technique of blaming the Jews and even put on passion plays to whip the Germans into a moral frenzy.

I guess I don't see any upside to good/evil. On the contrary I only see a list of drawbacks and downsides: blame, hatred, oversimplification, guilt, justification for punishment for its own sake, group polarization, neurosis (psychological issues), etc.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by taylor

Wow elucidate, you answered all those questions. I'll be sure to tone down my number of rhetorical questions to give you a break.

What can I say...it's sunday and I had nothing else to do. I realized they were rhetorical and I didn't HAVE to answer them, but I wanted to.

[taylor]

Originally Posted by elucidate

What can I say...it's sunday and I had nothing else to do. I realized they were rhetorical and I didn't HAVE to answer them, but I wanted to.

Yeah... and I wanted to make posts with lists of questions, facts, examples, more lists, etc.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by taylor

Yeah... and I wanted to make posts with lists of questions, facts, examples, more lists, etc.

[RonSouther]

To me, evil is simply the greed of the mind gone wrong.

The body has basic needs and the mind is greedy to get those needs met...that just part of staying alive. When push comes to shove, my instinct is first going to try to protect me. It becomes the survival of the fittest.

We can't escape that reality. The body must be taken care of first or life is miserable regardless of our consciousness.

Lacking consciousness, we lack joy in life. There is so much we don't understand in life and that produces the fear of the unknown. On top of that are all the social conditionings of culture and religion that create confusion in our minds with all of the contradictions robbing us of mental peace.

The mind is given the task to sort all this out but nearly all the confusion in the mind can't be solved except to see the source....that belief systems have corrupted and divided the mind so badly...that fiction has created ficticious questions that have no answer which is why the mind can't reconcile them. But the mind tries and tries to figure out this stuff, exhausting our energy that could've been used for creative purposes for lovingly expressing ourselves.

Instead, the greedy mind uses our creativity to find ways of steling a happy moment off a drug, off a one night stand, from stealing stuff from others, or even killing someone that is causing trouble in his life. The mind is pure logic so if the mind equates sex with happiness and comes up with rape as the way to get sex then the mind commands the body to rape the woman. The mind has no truth and no heart and no soul.

The mind is greed. If the mind is our servant as designed, it is a tenacious gopher for good. It our mind is the master, then living heartlessly in logic will allow horrible things to take place in the name of the pursuit of happiness.

[EmanQ]

Originally Posted by hamix

Who defines it? why do the media perpetuate labelling persons as evil? This applies to persons such as Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, etc.

it is common knowledge that evil doesn't really exist, perhaps the media need to get with the programme.

Evil people exist yes.

Everything in this world that exists, has an opposite of it.

[DarkTears]

Evil people are created, not born........

[180]

OP - The consensus in philosophical circles that such things such as malignant evil (evil for the sake of evil) doesn't exist. All "evil" is carried out on the basis of selfish desires. But then so are all good deeds carried out on the basis of selfish desires. Thus you can say that neither good nor evil exist, it's merely selfish desire and motivation.

Evil is just a label. And what defines evil is whatever people were propagandized to believe. The most common cited example of modern day layman's is Hitler. He's almost synonymous with evil.

However, what did Hitler want to achieve? He wanted the German people to be the best, to be safe, and to stop the post WWII persecution and degradation of his people. Is that so different than wanting the best for the people around you? Not really, do you treat your neighbors and friends better than strangers on the street? Probably, everyone does and if you didn't that would be pretty terrible to treat a homeless bum better than your sister or brother.

On the flip side, how could someone who killed so many Jews NOT be evil? Well, symbolically the WWII Germans believed the Jews were the ones who caused the suffering of the country. Another analogy would be, what would you do if someone threatened your family?

Really, what Hitler did was no more psychologically divergent than an extension of what most of us would do for our family. He just viewed the entire country as his family, and like any animal, he is protective of his own, and labels any threat as "evil".

Any of us are not so different and I think people fail to see to label him as evil is just our own way of propagating "evil". Don't you think it's quite bizarre we label people as "evil" because we want them to be enemies and they threaten some value we hold dear? Child molesters are "evil"? Murders are "evil", etc etc. But each of those people do things on the basis of motivation. Child molesters have dopmaine receptors associating children with reward. Somehow that got rewired with sexual satisfaction (anyone who studies neurology understands how the amygdala primes the reward system and how often people mistake sexual gratification for rewards in general). I'm not excusing them, merely explaining it. Most murders kill because they feel threatened.

Haven't you ever wanted to hurt someone who said something hurtful to you? Don't you see how someone could turn murderer very easily if something was said?

I could go into greater detail but GEN Y has a short attention span and if I go on, it's going to be a "too long, didn't read" thing.

[JoeDRL]

I personally think there is no evil people in the sense that no people has always been and will always be evil.

If someone does something "bad", even if it lasts for years, but then after that changes and becomes "good", is he still a bad person?

You are not a "personality" that your mind thinks you are. You are your actions, in this very moment. People change every seconds, so how can we label something as definite?

Anyway, it's very true that people do really bad things, and that's sad.

[Apresto]

evil live
I just turned the word backwards and see what turned out - does that answer the question..

[wanzulfikri]

Evil have many definition and the meaning of it depends on factors such as perception, cultural and etc.

Well, we define evil people by describing ourself as 'good' and people who violate our principle are considered evil.

If we're in an evil person shoes, would we call ourself as evil or good?

[Million Dollar Man]

My Friend there is evil in this world. But they are hidden in shadow, but evil truly does exist
in this world that much is certain.

[Prinie]

Conscious wrongdoing.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Prinie

Conscious wrongdoing.

impossible.....

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

impossible.....

must be cause you say so...

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Prinie

must be cause you say so...

Nope....evil is not the nature of our beings and I know this from my own self realization...So if evil is still occuring, the person is still unconscious of something key.

And often what is labeled evil is not because of a paradox that exist between living from logic vs. living from illogic, the heart.

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

Nope....evil is not the nature of our beings and I know this from my own self realization...So if evil is still occuring, the person is still unconscious of something key.

And often what is labeled evil is not because of a paradox that exist between living from logic vs. living from illogic, the heart.

There are those who know that their actions are causing harm to others as well as themselves and still they do not care. Apathy. From my own subjective viewpoint, this is evil.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Prinie

There are those who know that their actions are causing harm to others as well as themselves and still they do not care. Apathy. From my own subjective viewpoint, this is evil.

They do care...about themselves more than about their victims....it's greed. What is the real greed? To be happy. Evil is done for "happiness". Logically the mind has attached "happy" to the deed.

This is unconscious.

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

They do care...about themselves more than about their victims....it's greed. What is the real greed? To be happy. Evil is done for "happiness". Logically the mind has attached "happy" to the deed.

This is unconscious.

I can understand your viewpoint.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Prinie

I can understand your viewpoint.

This is paradox stuff....The person is unhappy...the mind is the problem solver, tasked with finding happiness. But happiness is beyond the scope of the mind to solve. The mind is logic, not truth. It is a great guesser. If the mind came up with truth, then we would already know the answer to the happy problem...we don't...the mind guesses.

And it guesses wrong time and time and time again...that's the beloved "pursuit of happiness". It turns out that happiness is the result of a realization of the inner self, not a pursuit of outer elixirs.

The pursuit of happiness is the root of all evil. It's done out of logic, out of the mind, and the mind has no heart. If the mind thinks logically that raping a little girl is happiness, then the mind commands the body to make it so.

It's sick, it's evil, it's a paradox.

[Rimuel]

Gaddafi and Sadam are excellent examples of darkworkers. If you think of it within the darkworking/lightworking paradigm, they are simply people who are good at consuming energy. They direct energy into themselves.

Read this for more insight: Are Darkworkers Evil?

With regards to what the second poster said, I disagree that a person who sacrifices himself for others should be labelled "good." Most people juxtapose between giving and receiving energy. For every job that you manage to get, a number of other applicants would have to fail. All competitions have many losers, with only several winners. In such situations, are you not "sacrificing others for yourself?" Are you a bad person then?

I think what the OP is trying to ask is "Is good and evil inherent in people?" This is a philosophical question, with no easy answer. Try reading philosophical texts on good and evil.

Some of the answers as to what is evil and what is not here seems to point towards moral relativism, i.e. "whether something is evil or not depends on who you are in relation to that subject." I'd like to point out that morality cannot be subjective, because then it wouldn't be able to supply an objective answer to the question "how should we live?" In other words, it would be perfectly fine if we choose to be immoral, if morality is subjective.

[Prinie]

I also understand where you're coming from Rimuel.

Personally, I don't have hard and fast answers for any of this stuff. Many people seem to and I can respect that.

To the OP, I feel as though the collective defines what's acceptable vs what isn't acceptable and they place a label on it as good vs. evil. But I don't dwell on it. If I know in my heart that what I'm doing is wrong (I know this by my intuition alerting me to what's right) and I continue to do that thing, then I have done what's known as evil. I can make changes from within so long as I have this life but repeated conscious wrongdoing with no intent or desire to change whatsoever to me is evil.