How Have I Touched Your Life?

[Andrew Gubb]

Obviously you can write negative things here (phrased with respect & with the intention of helping me improve) but I'm particularly interested in feeling confirmation in my path, feeling like I've made a difference. I've been trying to make a difference for a while, so I should expect that something would have come of it.

How have I touched your life?

[Merrick1]

Hi Andrew,

I haven't read many of your posts, but in about those 2 years I've been coming here my general feeling, the associations that come up regarding you can be summed up into something like:

It's always nice to meet someone gentle, thoughtful, unintrusive and compassionate, with a good sense of humour as a lovely bonus .

Merrick

[moonrambler]

You are one of the people here who's made me wonder why I need to argue with everybody. I notice that I tend to post when I'm disagreeing with someone and countering what they said, rather than when I'm agreeing and building on what they said. I'm not thrilled about that characteristic.

[OptimistPrime]

I appreciate the fact that you're a man who is in touch with his feminine side, likes having female friends, and isn't a PUA, yet still has an active love life. That means a lot to me, because I've often been told that each one of those personal qualities (which I, too, possess) are pure Girl Repellant in and of themselves, let alone combined with one another.

[Andrew Gubb]

Thanks guys. Interesting answers all, and surprising somehow, well, I wasn't sure what to expect I guess.

Anyone else?

[Lifeisamazing]

You have made me avoid debates that don't help me grow, and that is very positive.

[elucidate]

You remind me to take a step back from my ego and remember that I don't actually like getting caught up in debates where people are out to be 'right' all the time, and often try and tear people down to achieve that in their own minds. I like how you aren't afraid to go your own way despite copping flack for it from people who think men are supposed to be a certain way.

You're sensitivity and thoughtfulness has always been felt and appreciated by me, and I admire your com-passionate striving for a better world, even though I sometimes grow tired of the whole vegan vs meat eaters thing, I can see that your motives are good and you really believe in your cause.

I love your non-conformist streak when it comes to going against the mainstream conditioning of what men are supposed to be.

I honestly don't have anything neg to offer, though that might be better feedback in terms of growth. If I think of anything I will let you know though.

[Cado]

*Points at the crotch on the teddy bear and breaks down sobbing*

In all seriousness, you provided a good foil when I was beginning to seriously challenge myself post-Christianity because we had similar issues. While we've always had an antagonistic relationship, I think there has been value and growth in attempting to understand what makes the other tick, and that things have gotten heated no doubt provided a catalyst out of old patterns even if it wasn't consciously employed.

If we were a couple we'd hate each other but the sex would be awesome.

I do think there has been a tendency to put words into people's mouths, as (at least in my case) I can remember numerous times where you read a harshness into my words that wasn't there. Like, if I say there's an agenda that's not being spoken, that's not an act of condemnation on my part. I'm a left-hand pather for Christ's sake-I think everyone has an agenda. The question is whether or not it's conscious, and if I think it isn't I'll call it out. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm not, and sometimes I'm too stubborn to know the difference, but that's how things play out. I'll also speak up if I get the vibe that someone is trying to elevate themselves above others through their ideals, or that they're patting people on the head and conveying through the tapestry of their words and actions, "you'll see that I'm right when you're more advanced."

Again, that's not an act of condemnation. We're all given to that %^&$, it's just a question of what brings it out and how long it sticks. I'd only say I condemn it when it's a conscious act of playing the pied piper. I think you'd have potential for that, but while it might be slightly higher than average the odds are so low it's unlikely it'd come to fruition.

There's never been any question in my mind that you mean well, I've only wondered where it comes from at times. I have gotten the sense that the whole vegan thing has more to do with you than it does with animals, and that it's largely ego fulfillment through compassion. Regardless, the specifics don't really matter, I only care about what people do and the effect it has.

I do see a kind of loathing for the intellect on your part, and I think that lends itself to fundamental misunderstandings of human nature and the general way-of-things on this level of existence. I'd say it's one extreme taking the place of another and it's not any healthier than the other way around.

This has veered somewhat off-topic because I don't think you meant this to be a general feedback thread, but it's a roundabout way of demonstrating the give-and-take between us. I started out with a logical faculty that was thoroughly busted after years of indoctrination and social conditioning and topics you've either started or participated in have been a huge boon for rebalancing my internal world.

Things constantly shift in our interactions, but one thing has always been true: you've made an excellent mirror.

[Andrew Gubb]

Very interesting how many people mention the debates thing. At the time I chose to make a point about debating, I was only noticing how people were getting pissed off by it. Now it seems a lot of people have gotten value out of what I communicated.

Luci: Don't worry about not having negatives to talk about, this isn't really a critique thread, more of a positive feedback thread. Thanks a lot for your input on that count. <3

Cado:

I don't have time now to reply to everything but I felt inspired to get the following ideas into writing before I forgot them:

About the vegan thing. I actually agree that the veganism issue has at times come from the ego, but I wonder if you're not considering that these things can (and often do) come from *both*. Both ego and authenticity, I mean.

I've noticed the pattern of "orthorexia" in myself as I've gone through the diet path, that is, the fixation on a "right" way of eating, connected with the desire to be right or to stand out. Maybe it touches deeper issues with the socially or mentally defined "rights" and "wrongs" we all live with, which probably don't have to be so harsh, rigid or black and white in the first place. I think anyone who goes through the diet path will have to move through that block. Maybe some more or less than others, maybe for me more, I don't know.

But I do know that the path starts and continues, at least in me (I think in most people), because of an authentic desire to grow and do what's true to your deeper essence or closer to the Truth. If I just wanted to be better than other people there are plenty of ways that don't require stepping out of my comfort zone and actually making changes to my life. You know?

You're walking the diet path too, so you're likely to meet the same challenges. I'm not commenting on what I think you in particular are likely to experience, just anyone who walks this path. So maybe this is me being that mirror for you again...?

[Andrew Gubb]

btw I love the song in your sig

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

About the vegan thing. I actually agree that the veganism issue has at times come from the ego, but I wonder if you're not considering that these things can (and often do) come from *both*. Both ego and authenticity, I mean.

I actually would have said the same thing to you on a number of occasions.

As far as the diet thing goes, yep, I can say there have been times I was a little overzealous about whatever I was doing in the moment. With the Christian conditioning comes the need to be right, and that manifests as a need to convert. The latter part of that was starting to fade around the time I made this user account but still popped up from time to time in ways I'm not exactly proud of.

It's also true that it's a great way to push your comfort zone-my ambition has manifested in my physical body in a big way, which amplifies every other desire I have. While it would be possible to stick with a particular diet out of pure zealotry (I think people underestimate the fervor of zealots, be they religious or otherwise) an attitude of constant questioning/exploration balances that out.

Kudos to you for being as honest with yourself as you have been. It looks like you've taken responsibility for your life in ways I honestly didn't expect you to.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

How have I touched your life?

With all due respect, Andrew, you haven't touched my life at all.

Not to say that you should or shouldn't, or will or won't. You can touch my life all you want, but I warn you, I might say something if you touch my girlfriend.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Obviously you can write negative things here (phrased with respect & with the intention of helping me improve) but I'm particularly interested in feeling confirmation in my path, feeling like I've made a difference. I've been trying to make a difference for a while, so I should expect that something would have come of it.

How have I touched your life?

Yes, you blew my world wide open Andrew. Nothing will ever be the same again. Each letter you type is like bolts of lightning to my soul.

Seriously, I've had some interesting conversations with you but I can't help but ask why you feel like you need confirmation? While I'm at it, what in the world are you wearing in that profile picture?

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

While I'm at it, what in the world are you wearing in that profile picture?

LOL, I always assumed it was a picture of him wearing traditional Bavarian garb during Oktoberfest.

[Andrew Gubb]

It's a hat and shirt? Not sure what's so special about it?

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

It's a hat and shirt? Not sure what's so special about it?

From the limited view it looked like a little bo peep costume with an Indiana Jones type hat. My apologies.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

It's a hat and shirt? Not sure what's so special about it?

I thought maybe you were both getting those period photos done, where you dress up like you are from the time of the cowboys and coaches.

[ZephyrusX]

May be he just wants confirmation that he has connected with someone on some level. I don't really see anything wrong with that. I think ideally, we would already be aware of our influence, but yah... we can lose sight of it sometimes, especially if we are feeling down (Not saying that this is your case Andrew!). Sometimes I'd like confirmation that I mean something to other people, but I am too chicken to flat out ask as I think people will interpret the request in the worse possible manner.

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Seriously, I've had some interesting conversations with you but I can't help but ask why you feel like you need confirmation? While I'm at it, what in the world are you wearing in that profile picture?

[ZephyrusX]

Andrew, to be honest, I haven't interacted with you enough to say that you have had a impact on my life in any meaningful way. You do strike me as being defensive sometimes and I've seen you more or less close off communication with others on threads in the past. I probably wouldn't want to talk to you in a heated discussion for that reason. On the other hand, you strike me as being very gentle and caring. I think I'd feel safe opening up to you and talking to you about my vulnerabilities and life issues if the opportunity actually ever occurred (so long as it doesn't concern any of those heated subjects ).

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

From the limited view it looked like a little bo peep costume with an Indiana Jones type hat. My apologies.

Interesting!

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

May be he just wants confirmation that he has connected with someone on some level. I don't really see anything wrong with that. I think ideally, we would already be aware of our influence, but yah... we can lose sight of it sometimes, especially if we are feeling down (Not saying that this is your case Andrew!). Sometimes I'd like confirmation that I mean something to other people, but I am too chicken to flat out ask as I think people will interpret the request in the worse possible manner.

Yeah, I'll let you guys interpret this how you want. The first posts in the thread were just what I was looking for, so it doesn't seem like it's too hard to get me here.

[Roser]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Obviously you can write negative things here (phrased with respect & with the intention of helping me improve) but I'm particularly interested in feeling confirmation in my path, feeling like I've made a difference. I've been trying to make a difference for a while, so I should expect that something would have come of it.

How have I touched your life?

Obviously life is to progress and learn all about it, we grow inwardly with people that are important in our lives. Canvio a belief is not the solution, our real essence is always stronger than this, do not fight it, you should be happy about it and do it. Much love to you in your new stage and life

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Cado

Kudos to you for being as honest with yourself as you have been. It looks like you've taken responsibility for your life in ways I honestly didn't expect you to.

Heh. I think you should expect more from me. I expect big things from you

Cockiness aside, thanks.

[Andrew Gubb]

I'll get down to replying to the rest of your first post, Cado, but there really is so much to say. It may have to wait a while.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Roser

Obviously life is to progress and learn all about it, we grow inwardly with people that are important in our lives. Canvio a belief is not the solution, our real essence is always stronger than this, do not fight it, you should be happy about it and do it. Much love to you in your new stage and life

Love to you too

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

I'll get down to replying to the rest of your first post, Cado, but there really is so much to say. It may have to wait a while.

Honestly, you don't really need to say more than you have. If you've got more, sure, go ahead, but it's not like you're under contract or something.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Cado

Honestly, you don't really need to say more than you have. If you've got more, sure, go ahead, but it's not like you're under contract or something.

Hah, well, there are some things I'd like to express.

[Andrew Gubb]

So Cado...

I have to say first I'm just glad we're back on speaking terms. I hope we don't get into any more seriously messy stuff again, and I actually think that we won't, not to the same extent.

I agree and feel the same about the mirror thing. I think it's been said before, but it's strange how we are so remarkably similar in some ways and so radically different in others. I don't think any relationship could get to a similar level of conflict if there weren't some factor underneath drawing the participants together. When you dislike someone who has nothing to do with you, they just disappear from your life and conflict usually doesn't happen. Actually, you probably never get around to disliking them.

Also been said before but I think it would be fascinating to do some regression therapy on us. There has to be something past life going on here. I think at some other time we saw more eye to eye - and later on I think we'll get back to that place again. In short, I think all this conflict has happened because neither of us wanted to admit how similar we really are.

To work this point just a little more, it's interesting how you've come from a religious background whereas I've come from an anti-religious background (scientific and atheistic world views). While you've been indoctrinated to not use your intellect I've been indoctrinated that my intellect was the only thing there was. I've later pushed back against that and explored the places where intellect won't take you, and you've pushed back against your own indoctrination. We've both been looking for balance.

What else can I say... I guess I'd really like to see you in the real world sometime and see what unfolds between us. The medium of writing is very limited and this strange connection we have so rich and multifaceted (in both the good and the bad). I think there's a lot more growth in there, for both of us.

I think, in essence, a lot of our opinions are not what we're really discussing on these forums; what's really unfolding is us learning how to let other's opinions be, and perhaps moderate our own, letting go of the need to be right or the need to fight another's point of view.

So in short in short:

I agree.

Andrew

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

So Cado...

I have to say first I'm just glad we're back on speaking terms. I hope we don't get into any more seriously messy stuff again, and I actually think that we won't, not to the same extent.

I don't have much to say in response to the rest at the moment, but I will address this: expect conflict. We have very different views that are incompatible on a number of levels, but I do think you're right that it probably won't get to the same extent it did before if recent trends continue.

In particular, I know you're a big light n' love guy and I'm going to tear into that pretty hard as I advance, so that's where I'd expect most of the clashing. It doesn't mean I can't respect people on the other side of the debate but I will shake that paradigm as hard as I can, as well others which are connected to it.

Popular spirituality is highly imbalanced. I seek to correct that, or at least nudge it in that direction. So you're right on that count, too-I'm after balance.

How that will happen isn't entirely known to me. I revel in the journey.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Cado

Popular spirituality is highly imbalanced.

I agree.