Is greed good…???

[Shamou]

In the 1987 film “Wall Street” Gordon Gekko (Michael Douglas) delivers a speech that has now become famous… part of which was about greed… (see quote below)

“The point is, ladies and gentleman, that 'greed' -- for lack of a better word -- is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.”

The question being asked in this thread is… “Do you agree that greed is good…???”

.

[Angela]

Well, it's not my favorite Deadly Sin.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I agree with Angela. Sorry, a healthy desire is good. NOT Greed. Greed is destructive, negative, dark. It is the balance to the light. But not Light in itself.

[RT Wolf]

Could he have meant meant self-interest rather than greed?

[Angela]

It's funny now to think that during the eighties greed was fashionable. Perpetual dissatisfaction was seen as this dynamic and enviable condition which will lead to being a superior person (= nice house, sexy car, foxy spouse, hardbody, lots of cocaine -- and more more more of everything!) as well as driving civilization to new and greater heights!

I remember there were small, nutty pockets of folks who dreamed during that period of the Age of Aquarius they expected to manifest after the turn of the century, in which people would be concerned with personal growth, experiencing interconnectedness, living in accordance with values like love, generosity, joy and peace.

Oh -- wait! Here we are! Happy Age of Aquarius, everybody!


p.s. favorite Deadly Sin = Lust, with Gluttony running a close second

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I agree with Angela. Sorry, a healthy desire is good. NOT Greed. Greed is destructive, negative, dark. It is the balance to the light. But not Light in itself.

Could not greed equate with a great passion...???

And could it not be said that those who have excelled in their field had greed in their pursuit in that endeavor...???

.

[Mark Lapierre]

Enlightened self-interest = good *nods at RT Wolf*
Greed = destructive self-interest = bad

So maybe Gordon Gekko lacked a better word, but we've got a couple. However I have no idea if he was really talking about enlightened self-interest.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Enlightened self-interest = good *nods at RT Wolf*
Greed = destructive self-interest = bad

So maybe Gordon Gekko lacked a better word, but we've got a couple. However I have no idea if he was really talking about enlightened self-interest.

Mark I have always valued your input... so,I would like to ask you the same thing that I asked Akashic_Librarian...

Could not greed equate with a great passion...???

And could it not be said that those who have excelled in their field had greed in their pursuit in that endeavor...???

.

[Mark Lapierre]

I don't think so. Great passion and greed, perhaps, but I don't think great passion is a component of greed. Greed implies no concern for others; getting what you want at any cost, and getting more than you need.

I'd would bet that anyone who was successful through giving in to greed was successful only by taking something away from someone else.

I think great passion could be a component of enlightened self-interest, and a sure path to success, but that is not greed.

[beautyscientist]

I'm British, but we have heard that quote over here quite a bit too. The best reference to an appropriate attitude to material wealth in american culture in my view would be " I don't mind chopping wood, and I don't care if the money's no good. You take what you need and you leave the rest, but they should never have taken the very best."

A fabulous prize is on offer to the first person who can spot where those lines come from.





Colin

[coollikeme]

as it is legal.

[RT Wolf]

I thought this was itneresting, the guy claims enlightened self-interest may save us all.

TED | Talks | Robert Wright: How cooperation (eventually) trumps conflict (video)

[RT Wolf]

This is reallllllyyyy coool:

TED | Talks | Hans Rosling: Debunking third-world myths with the best stats you’ve ever seen (video)

[lifeinoleg]

For me the differences between greed and passion are that greed has no purpose other than to acquire more of the object in question (cars, money, houses), nor does it have bounds.

With passion, a person goes after something they love; they want it because they love it, not simply to have more of it. When they get enough, they stop and enjoy what they have.

On the contrary, a greedy person does not stop acquiring objects, which brings forth the epitaph megalomaniac.

When considering the question "Is greed good?" we are viewing the word greed through the qualities it possesses rather than the whole meaning which adds vital dimensions to the discussion. For example,

- Is a greedy person is passionate? Yes. Is a greedy person is passionate about acquiring? Yes. So far so good. Is a greedy person passionate about what he is acquiring? Perhaps not.

- Does a greedy person have goals? Yes. Are goals a necessary part of the personal development credo we all subscribe to? Yes. So greed is good because it advocates something we all believe in? No, because:
a) Goals should have an end-result.
b) Goals should have a purpose.
c) Goals must be moderated by the world. (as opposed to dreams)
d) Goals must be, in the end, for the common good, ethically speaking.

- Will a greedy person eschew ethics to achieve goals/acquire objects? If the person is greedy enough, yes.

In general, it is a muddled arguer who tries to separate passion and greed completely. Certainly a greedy person can be passionate, be it even passionate about the acquiring of the objects, passionate about the chase. Still, passion does not equal greed. And greed is not good.


[Thus far in this post I have neglected to mention the negative (not as in good/bad negative, more in the mathematical sense) definition of greed, i.e. refusing to share. Taking that into account adds a lot to the idea that greed is not good.]

[Angela]

Originally Posted by beautyscientist

I'm British, but we have heard that quote over here quite a bit too. The best reference to an appropriate attitude to material wealth in american culture in my view would be " I don't mind chopping wood, and I don't care if the money's no good. You take what you need and you leave the rest, but they should never have taken the very best."

A fabulous prize is on offer to the first person who can spot where those lines come from.
Colin

"The Night .... they drove ol' Dixie Down".....and all the people were singin' -- The Band

I'm greedy for my prize!!!!

[poetrythug]

"The desire to build something great" is good. "Greed" is not.

Billionaire technology entrepreneurs have increased the wealth and the prosperity in the world, provided a great service, and created many jobs, because of a desire to build something great. This is different from someone who has the desire to aggrandize their net worth at any cost.

[jamestl2]

I watched an abc special report about this very topic a few years ago and found it very interesting (They interviewed people and asked them questions like comparing Bill Gates to Mother Theresa), it is summarized here:

ABC News: When is Greed Good?

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by jamestl2

I watched an abc special report about this very topic a few years ago and found it very interesting (They interviewed people and asked them questions like comparing Bill Gates to Mother Theresa), it is summarized here:

ABC News: When is Greed Good?

Great article... thanks for sharing it with us...

.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Shamou

The question being asked in this thread is… “Do you agree that greed is good…???”

Considering the advantages and disadvantages, i definitely consider greed to be useful to humankind.

Many people helped human kind by greed, while some, like hitler, werent good to humankind at all. But i think the people who helped humankind by greed are far more numerous than those who were bad for humankind.

So yea, i think greed is good.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Sam988

Considering the advantages and disadvantages, i definitely consider greed to be useful to humankind.

Many people helped human kind by greed, while some, like hitler, werent good to humankind at all. But i think the people who helped humankind by greed are far more numerous than those who were bad for humankind.

So yea, i think greed is good.

If greed is defined as seen in the Gordon Gekko quote seen below... I wholeheartedly agree with you...

“The point is, ladies and gentleman, that 'greed' -- for lack of a better word -- is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.”

.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Sam988

Considering the advantages and disadvantages, i definitely consider greed to be useful to humankind.

Many people helped human kind by greed, while some, like hitler, werent good to humankind at all. But i think the people who helped humankind by greed are far more numerous than those who were bad for humankind.

So yea, i think greed is good.

Could you give any examples of people providing help through greed?

I read James' article but I didn't see anything about greed. Competition, innovation, capitalism, interest in money, responsibility, enlightened self-interest, but no greed. I think it illustrates the lack of clarity in what greed actually is.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

I think it illustrates the lack of clarity in what greed actually is.

Not easy to define “greed” since it has such a pejorative connotation…

However, Merriam-Webster defines greed as "having or showing a selfish desire for wealth and possessions…" it does say “selfish” but, if we get down to it, isn’t almost everything we do selfish…???

And, the James' article… I think well illustrates that if one is motivated by greed the effort with be greater and the end product much superior…

I know that for religious people the word “greed” is hard to swallow… but, I also believe that it high time to give that word the “lettres de noblesse” that it so richly deserves...

.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

I read James' article but I didn't see anything about greed. Competition, innovation, capitalism, interest in money, responsibility, enlightened self-interest, but no greed. I think it illustrates the lack of clarity in what greed actually is.

How about I define "greed" as "the desire for something for its own sake"?

[Uplift]

'Greed
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Greed (disambiguation).
Greed is selfish excessive or uncontrolled desire for possession or pursuit of money, wealth, food, or other possessions, especially when this denies the same goods to others. It is generally considered a vice, and is one of the seven deadly sins in Catholicism. (People who do not view unconstrained acquisitiveness as a vice will generally use a word other than greed, which has strong negative connotations.)

Some desire to increase one's wealth is nearly universal and acceptable in any culture, but this simple want is not considered greed. Greed is the extreme form of this desire, especially where one desires things simply for the sake of owning them. Greed may entail acquiring material possessions at the expense of another person's welfare (for example, a father buying himself a new car rather than fix the roof of his family's home) or otherwise reflect flawed priorities.

Coveting another person's goods is usually called envy, a word commonly confused with jealousy. The two word denote opposite forms of greed. We may envy and wish to have the possessions or qualities of another, but we jealously guard the possessions or qualities we believe we have and refuse to share these with others. Greed for food or drink, combined with excessive indulgence in them, is called gluttony. Excessive greed for and indulgence in sex is called lust, although this term no longer carries as negative connotations as it once did.

Greed is sometimes represented by the frog.

A woodcut by Ugo da Carpi, is entitled "Hercules Chasing Avarice from the Temple of the Muses." [1]. Thomas Aquinas metaphorically described the sin of Avarice as "Mammon being carried up from Hell by a wolf, coming to inflame the human heart with Greed".

Proponents of laissez-faire capitalism sometimes argue that greed should not be considered a negative trait and should instead be embraced, as they claim that greed is a profoundly benevolent force in human affairs, as well as a necessary foundation for the capitalist system. Critics have argued this definition confuses greed with self-interest, which can be benign.'

I think the word greed has, and has had enough negative connotations attached to it over the course of time, to make it a poor choice of words if used to try and express something good, or beneficial, or inspiring to mankind. Words are a form of energy and express intent, and take part in creating and shaping results. A seemingly simple word can cause and evoke war, love, pain, happiness, or inspire, deflate, mislead, explain, begin, end, and so on, and so on. For example Shamou, imagine Anthony Robbins' advertising campaign, or anyones for that matter, beginning with, 'I am gonna be so greedy to you useless ##!!s, that you will all benefit and thank me'. And then trying to explain that greedy, useless, and ##!s, was mean't in a good and positive way. Controversial maybe, but...nup, poor choice of words. Back to the drawing board. (Meant to inspire)

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

How about I define "greed" as "the desire for something for its own sake"?

That definition ignores the negatives usually associated with greed. I think a more accurate definition would be "the excessive desire for something for its own sake, regardless of all else."

Originally Posted by Uplift

I think the word greed has, and has had enough negative connotations attached to it over the course of time, to make it a poor choice of words if used to try and express something good, or beneficial, or inspiring to mankind. Words are a form of energy and express intent, and take part in creating and shaping results. A seemingly simple word can cause and evoke war, love, pain, happiness, or inspire, deflate, mislead, explain, begin, end, and so on, and so on. For example Shamou, imagine Anthony Robbins' advertising campaign, or anyones for that matter, beginning with, 'I am gonna be so greedy to you useless ##!!s, that you will all benefit and thank me'. And then trying to explain that greedy, useless, and ##!s, was mean't in a good and positive way. Controversial maybe, but...nup, poor choice of words. Back to the drawing board. (Meant to inspire)

*thumbs up*

I've been trying to think of why I find the proposition that greed isn't a bad thing impossible to stomach. Particularly since I can accept selfishness as either good or bad. They're similar in that neither is necessarily detrimental, but both are generally considered to mean self-interest at the expense of others.

I'd much prefer the term "enlightened self-interest," in either case.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

I'd much prefer the term "enlightened self-interest," in either case.

"Enlightened self-interest" is too wimpy for anyone who wants to truly succeed... you'll have to come up with something stronger than that...

.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

That definition ignores the negatives usually associated with greed. I think a more accurate definition would be "the excessive desire for something for its own sake, regardless of all else."

So you're defining greed as a bad thing. How could it possibly be a good thing, then? There's no question. It's like asking, "Is one two?"

[Mark Lapierre]

Is flipping you the bird strong enough, Shamou?

Ok seriously, if you describe the driving emotion behind success as greed, I'd prefer passion coupled with enlightened self-interest. Otherwise success comes at too high a cost. I refuse to be successful with proverbial blood on my hands.

That's right Michael, I am defining it as a bad thing because I fail to see how it could be otherwise. If something is similar to greed but has no negative connotations, it's not greed, in my opinion.

I guess I'm attempting to see the alternate side, but failing because I'm looking from my side still

[torilink]

I think greed implies lack - you must get as much as you can before others get to it. this is represented by hoarding and such behaviour.

desire for wealth is not a bad thing.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Is flipping you the bird strong enough, Shamou?

Ok seriously, if you describe the driving emotion behind success as greed, I'd prefer passion coupled with enlightened self-interest. Otherwise success comes at too high a cost. I refuse to be successful with proverbial blood on my hands.

Of course you are right in "refusing the proverbial blood etc..." Success has a price... but it has to be kept within reason...

As for the word "greed" I must admit that as far as I am concerned it has a lot of baggage attached to it...

My favorite movie (and most inspirational one) of all time is Wall Street... I, along with hundred of thousands of people (according to Wikipedia) were most inspired by Gordon Gekko (Michael Douglas) ... and, one of the most memorable moment of that flick is when he delivers the famous "greed is good" speech...

“The point is, ladies and gentleman, that 'greed' -- for lack of a better word -- is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.”

I will never forget that moment...

.