Maybe this community needs a bit of doubt.

[Derelle]

Originally Posted by Karanime

A trend I've noticed in this forum is that good and bad seems clear-cut. There are certain things here that all the people here believe we should strive for, and there are other things that the people here believe we should move away from.

I would consider myself "evil" in the traditional sense. I'm sure a lot of people here could consider themselves "evil" as well, because they go against certain social norms like monogamy. But I've made it a point to be what others do not want to be, simply because I know others won't try it.

I am also quite the empath. So despite my efforts to be evil, I cannot bring myself to be cruel to another person.

Lastly, I am obsessed with truth. I doubt myself constantly on purpose because I want to make sure what I'm believing is true. If I think that something I believe may not be true, I will often test it using a version of the scientific method.

Interestingly enough, I've found that being that person that people don't want to be is wholly compatible with my empathy. I would never harm another person, but I've found they often are offended by my actions, though they aren't affected in any way (and I make damn sure of that).

One of my more interesting goals in life is to be a famous, strung-out, drug-addicted, anorexic musician. On first glance, this looks like an awful thing to strive for. But I find it hilarious, glamorous, and just wrong enough that it has the capability to make people think.

I've done a lot of drugs in my life, and some of them have taught me incredible things about the nature of life. The first being that we are animals. Our existence on this earth is simply a result of the laws of physics, working on the tiniest processes of life so that evolution can occur. Because of this, right and wrong can't possibly exist concretely. They are a concept we've made up, as humans trying to make sense of the world. The second is that the way we think is somewhat mechanical, but also imprecise. We make associations the exact same way all of the animals do, we just make more of them, and we're able to do it faster. Knowing that our brains work mechanically, rather than spiritually, has taught me that we can associate ANYTHING with ANYTHING ELSE.

So anything can be good, and anything can be bad. We can associate fish tacos with the color purple, if we so choose. Stronger associations, like mother, father, spouse and friend, can be programmed as well. Hypnosis is a very good demonstration of this fact.

You have a very defined sense of right and wrong. Certain things are absolutely good for you, and certain things are absolutely bad. Have you ever thought about what you could be missing on the bad side? Perhaps you think drugs are bad. You have plenty of reasons for it. Overdosing can be deadly. Even if one avoids the overdose, there are still countless negative physical effects that are well worth avoiding. But you'll never experience the altered state of mind that drugs will give you. You'll never explore your own mental processes in the unique way drugs will allow you to. Perhaps there are lessons you will never learn, because you stayed away from drugs, because you are "good" and they are "bad".

Drugs are not the only example. This could apply to social interactions, culture, politics, emotions, thought processes, anything at all.

Maybe, if you remembered, just for a second, that right and wrong are made-up concepts, you could explore an entire side of yourself, society, and human nature that you could never access before. Maybe, if you could tell yourself, just once, that our humanity is not at all connected to a higher "good", you could stop being afraid of the darker side of things, and give yourself room to explore.

Maybe doing everything that's "bad" for you could be the best thing that ever happened to you.

It's worth a shot, trust me.

/<3

I just met my twin brain haha. Yeah I total feel where you are coming from. I used to wonder why I would just go with my impulses, instead of questioning my motives for certain actions. It seems like I never felt more alive, than when I was going against society norms. Not because of being rebellious but because of the freedom of choice. The ability to allow yourself to create opportunities in your life, come from not being rigid and a conformist. I like the whole referring as yourself to "evil". It is honest. No one is entirely good and it allows one to come out of the clouds for a moment, and to realize we are still human, no matter if we have a spirit within us that is our true form, for now we are in a physical dimension and that's what counts. When I was teenager, I called myself "Devil." Not because I was an evil person, in fact I was just the opposite and still I am one of the nicest, most sincere, and caring persons I know, ha. The Devil was supposed to be my alter ego, in which if you put Devil in the mirror it spells Lived. And that is what I was sent here on Earth to do, is live and give life. My zodiac is 69 and to me, it stands for 6, the number of Man, mental, physical, death and 9 is the number of Woman, emotions, spiritual, life. "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" has to do with the principal of masculine and feminine aspects of life, and how do you reconcile them in harmony.

[elucidate]

So that's what the whole "69 me" thing really means.

It's kinda like the yin and yang symbol if you really think about it.

[DeniseG]

Originally Posted by taylor

Interesting perspective Karanime.

Here's how I roughly define what's good or evil.

Good: what my heart wants.
Evil: what my heart doesn't want.

Being a drug addict is a desire that I could see coming from a part of me that wants to self-destruct, not my heart though. That's true for many of the thing's people say are evil. There are desires within present to varying degrees from my darker "id" instincts. Trust me, even though your conscious ego is saying you don't have it in you to be cruel to others, you definitely do. You have the same human parts as Himmler and Jeffrey Dahmer, they just aren't active. Serial killers aren't actually monsters after all, they're human beings.

I feel we all have the potential to desire what anyone else desires, to fall or rise as high as we choose, but where's it coming from within you? I've explored the dark side enough to know it's not a place I want to end up. I've also explored the lighter side enough to know it's a great place to end up. This isn't coming from a naive good/evil distinction I learned from society, it's coming from an understanding of the real consequences of our choices. You don't want to live as a drug addicted anorexic despite how glamorous you're imagining it as, though you may have to go there to realize you don't like it from the inside. It also might have many lessons you couldn't learn another way. It's all a part of the process, our somewhat random walk towards what we really want.

I wouldn't call you evil though. We're all doing the best we know at the time.

I couldn't have said it better.

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by Mounds

I've always struggled with the "What" of drugs. What benefit do I derive from drugs?

Many people have told me about how drugs have taken them to new places. After that, they proceed to explain all sorts of new concepts which I've heard before in different words. So again, I ask the "What is the purpose?".

Usually after that, it comes down to expanding my mind in new directions. I've practiced self-induced trance daily for over a year now. I've astral travelled and have experienced past lives. I've become far more spiritual and gotten in touch with my higher self.

Drugs seem to keep you in the conscious mind. Many profound thoughts and experiences seem to arise from drugs but it never seems to get past there.

This isn't to say there is no positive benefit. Clearly there are lots of positive benefits to lots of people! I do think it's a bit limiting to think that most people can't achieve a higher state without drugs. I actually think ANYONE can achieve a state like that without ever touching a drug. All it takes is time, energy, and an open mind.

Oh, did you say you astral travelled?

Y'know, the conclusions a lot of people reach while astral travelling are ones I've heard before, in different words. I really don't see the point of astral travel. ANYONE can reach the same states without ever exploring astral travel. All it takes is a little thought and meditation.

No, I'm kidding. I absolutely see the point. The value is in the experience, not the conclusions.

It seems a little hypocritical to say, "What's the point of drugs?" and go on to treat astral travel as a rewarding experience. They're both altered states of consciousness, and to say that just "anyone" can learn the same lessons if they just think about it hard enough is a little naïve.

If I were to tell you that there is an afterlife and that we have souls, you'd be like, "Sure, okay, whatever you say." But now that you've done astral travel, you understand those two concepts. Knowing the information and experiencing it are two different things.

/<3

[Karanime]

Avoiding an entire side of life just because your "heart doesn't want it" is going to cut your experience here in half.

It sort of reminds me of a child who grew up privileged all their life and doesn't want to associate with those who were not privileged. "I don't like the poor," they say, "That's not a place I want to be." As if they're lesser people because of it.

There are many people who live very privileged lives. In fact, the Buddha was very privileged. But he INTENTIONALLY exposed himself to those less fortunate, and gave up all those things to better understand them. He is a man who fasted when he had plenty of food.

If you get rid of your heart's "wants" and "don't wants", then you can just live, without having to run away from things you don't like.

/<3

[forexpreneur]

If any of you remember Enron than you will get my headline on this post . However I have learned over the years to not worry about what most people think because reality most people don't and that is an absolute fact.

I have had to break myself apart, meaning I have had to very seriously question my memeories, labels and beliefs in life. I am a survivor of fairly extreme and prolonged child abuse, all acrossed the board, and in order to stop running from things in my life I had to learn about emotions, beliefs etc.

It is very interesting because when you start doing that you learn that there are many things in life we put labels on, yet we never truly thought about why or if we really have the beliefs. Reality is that life is one very large grey area. Also do we really appreciate love if we don't know what hate is?

There are a couple of things I'm still very black and white on. Child abuse, and especially sexual abuse towards children should not be understood and accepted.

[starlequin]

I'm glad I gave myself the opportunity to try drugs when I had the chance. It helped me to discover how much I really appreciate being clear-headed and able to make sense of reality! ^_^

[InterfaceLeader]

I don't think you can 'pretend to be addicted'. Especially if you are avoiding getting 'addicted' to cocaine because it is expensive!

If you really want to be an addict, you will have to sacrifice everything in your life for the pursuit of drugs, whilst attempting to appear normal. Addicts don't try and be deviant, addicts try really hard to fit in, because addiction is a shameful secret, but fail horrendously at fitting in because their perceptions are so off-kilter to what what people see as normal.

Otherwise you're just a drug-user, which is a totally different thing :P

Also, for the average drug-addicted rock-star, the talent and the work got done first, sometimes with the use of drugs, but the addiction to drugs came later due to external pressures, God-complexes etc etc. There are millions of addicts out there, that nobody gives a dam' about (well, apart from lightworkers in the abstract!) but they didn't provide value on the mega-rock-star level and so they aren't famous.

If you want the story and persona of being an addict, then you have to engage with that experience fully. That means spending rent money on your next fix. It means stealing money from your friends. It means understanding the consequences of being homeless, jobless, cold, hungry and wet, but the fix holding more power over you than those consequences. If you're a rock-star, it means letting down thousands of fans because you're too wasted to play a gig, it means instead of hitting that transcendental song and getting an arena full of people to share some of what you've found from drug experience--you throw up.

Otherwise you're just playacting, which is fun too, but pretty different.

[Andrew Gubb]

Lol, you got me to click on the thread at the word "evil". But you're not evil as I define the word, you're just non conformist (maybe compulsively so).

It's a very good idea to challenge your ideas of good and bad, especially if they have been inherited.

Death to the orthodoxy!