Maybe this community needs a bit of doubt.

[elucidate]

Food of the Gods IS a fascinating book. I have it in my collection.

What people don't seem to consider is that these botanicals are comprised of chemicals which really do work well with the chemistry of the human brain.

If they weren't supposed to be ingested by us, why would their chemical compositions react in such an interesting way with our brains...and open us up to things that yes, we can reach without them, but it's not as colorful, put it that way.

They are there for us to use, so why not?

I've heard the argument that some very straight spiritual people give about how they consider people who use ethnobotanicals to be "lazy" and I say to them, if you had to get somewhere and it was a hundred miles away...and you had the choice between catching the bus which would get you there in no time, or walking...would you walk? It's the same principle.

The only reason this would go wrong would be if a person was in a low frame of mind at the time and mentally unstable to start with. If a person is in a happy mood, these plants can work wonders.

I haven't really dived into mushrooms or any of the cactus's out there, though I have dabbled.

I would only take them in a ritual context now though...these aren't party drugs.

[Jack Stark]

OP, I'm not clear on whether you want to actually be addicted to using drugs, or if you simply wish to appear that you're addicted, when, really, you're actually not. Or wouldn't be.

Also, which drugs are we talking about? These questions are important.

[James81]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Food of the Gods IS a fascinating book. I have it in my collection.

What people don't seem to consider is that these botanicals are comprised of chemicals which really do work well with the chemistry of the human brain.

If they weren't supposed to be ingested by us, why would their chemical compositions react in such an interesting way with our brains...and open us up to things that yes, we can reach without them, but it's not as colorful, put it that way.

They are there for us to use, so why not?

I've heard the argument that some very straight spiritual people give about how they consider people who use ethnobotanicals to be "lazy" and I say to them, if you had to get somewhere and it was a hundred miles away...and you had the choice between catching the bus which would get you there in no time, or walking...would you walk? It's the same principle.

The only reason this would go wrong would be if a person was in a low frame of mind at the time and mentally unstable to start with. If a person is in a happy mood, these plants can work wonders.

I haven't really dived into mushrooms or any of the cactus's out there, though I have dabbled.

I would only take them in a ritual context now though...these aren't party drugs.

I don't know if you were speaking in general or addressing me directly, so if you're addressing me directly, you're kinda preaching to the choir. I'm one of those peeps who feel if drugs aren't hurting someone other than the person who takes them, then by all means make them legal and save all the money that gets wasted trying to police them.

I personally wouldn't mind dabbling a little bit more with some other drugs, but, at this point, I'm not entirely sure that it's worth risking my new career path for.

All I was saying is that you can reach those states of mind without drugs (and, yes, even in the colorful way that drugs can do). Drugs just make it easier by altering the chemical physiology of the brain and removing internal defenses and blocks toward thinking.

[Brutha]

Our existence on this earth is simply a result of the laws of physics, working on the tiniest processes of life so that evolution can occur. Because of this, right and wrong can't possibly exist concretely.

Where the doubt in "can't possibly" that you want to preach?

Even if one avoids the overdose, there are still countless negative physical effects that are well worth avoiding. But you'll never experience the altered state of mind that drugs will give you. You'll never explore your own mental processes in the unique way drugs will allow you to.

Drugs aren't the only way to reach altered states of mind.
Hypnosis does the job as well.

During a NLP workshop I did today timeline exploration with another person. The did remember an experience where he was two years old but couldn't remember an experience before that point in time. Afterwards he told me he had problems with the task because he was very wary of the possible "realness" of early memories.
His doubt prevented him from experiencing earlier memories.

The only thing that drugs allow you is to go into crazy states of mind without doing the internal work letting go of your doubt and other emotions.

Another experience I had today was that a girl who did some energy healing helped me through doing energy healing with a significant problem. She did touch my shoulders.

My operating model of reality is the mechanical universe but that doesn't prevent me and trying things out with an open mind.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by James81

I don't know if you were speaking in general or addressing me directly, so if you're addressing me directly, you're kinda preaching to the choir. I'm one of those peeps who feel if drugs aren't hurting someone other than the person who takes them, then by all means make them legal and save all the money that gets wasted trying to police them.

I personally wouldn't mind dabbling a little bit more with some other drugs, but, at this point, I'm not entirely sure that it's worth risking my new career path for.

All I was saying is that you can reach those states of mind without drugs (and, yes, even in the colorful way that drugs can do). Drugs just make it easier by altering the chemical physiology of the brain and removing internal defenses and blocks toward thinking.

Just speaking generally, though I was acknowledging the book is fab.

[masteredfate]

Someone I have known since I was about 7 is a polygomist. She came to me for my opinion when she was embarking on her first steps into with her husband. I told her I didn't have a problem with it, but it didn't make sense in the realm of marriage. Connecting yourself deeply to one person- and then sharing that connection with a bunch of strangers. Polygamy makes sense- constant flow of energy. Shared energy. Marriage is described very well in a few books (I feel) regarding the LOA and money. Napoleon Hill and many others speak of a concept called the Master Mind group. A marriage is the ultimate mastermind group. It's two people building an immense amount of power and creative energy that can be shared during brainstorming sessions and sex. That energy can't ever build to something immense when you are dissapating and disecting it amongst a group of individuals that are not of the same mind. It's not a judgement, but if there is any truth to the idea (I feel there is, but it's fine if you don't), you are detracting from your greatest source of energy and power- which doesn't make sense.

Knew a guy once..really fun, really nice. Drug addict. Coke. And who knows what else. I saw him one time when he was not on drugs- because he vowed to himself when he started doing them that he would never be on anything around his kids. He was soooo angry and bitter and suck a wanker when he was sober. So it didn't make sense to me. Why be angry and unhappy sober? Why show that side to your kids? Why wouldn't you want to be happy and fun and nice all the time, without drugs? Again, didn't make sense. Here's a guy giving the best of himself (best attitude) to friends and strangers and not his kids, yet not wanting to be a happy sober person around his kids. Okay to be angry- as long as I'm sober, that's what matters. Doesn't make sense.


The point- there is nothing wrong with experimenting and experiencing life. But at further examination, there is always an underlying negative reason within yourself that you choose to do so. It's much more difficult to look at those negative reasons and work through them to create greater happiness/wisdom/faith/understanding than it is to do things that don't really make sense.

Someone mentioned in another post reasoning out your lifes circumstances. That should include the things you mentioned as perceived (but not by me) as evil. Why are you polyamorous? Afraid of commitment? Addicted to sex? Afraid of marriage? Gay or bi and unwilling to accept yourself? Afraid of admitting you married the wrong person for the wrong reasons? Afraid of admitting you are not the marrying type and made a mistake? Trying to get your husband/wife to leave? In search of a new partner and you are waiting to find one within poly before leaving your current partner? Low self esteem? Afraid to be alone?

Why do you want to do drugs? Because you think you're more interesting when you do? Because you think it is the way to enlightenment? Because you think it's cool? Do the extenuating effects of drug use not affect you because you live in the suburbs in a safe area? (See the movie 'Traffic'. I have been friends with multiple drug dealers in my life as well- that movie and New Jack City are true depictions of what is going on). Because it makes you feel uninhibited? Why can't you be uninhibited without them?

I could go on and on, but I'm sure you understand what I mean.

There's a ton of doubters here. And they are all welcome. Even the most focused/enlightened/successful LOA'er of us all has days or moments of doubt. I'm pretty sure we have every type of person well represented- from gay to straight to bi to unsure. From married to single, to in love with ones self to polyamorous. Black to white to slightly pink or brown. Everyone is just here to try to understand something about themselves. Living outside the norm doesn't make you different. We have all lived a little bit. But what this place is about (to me) is understanding why we are all the same. Love. Humanity. Strength.

[elucidate]

Drugs make things more interesting and exciting...and fun. People tend to skip those reasons when they look at someone who takes them. Yes, many people do use them to appear 'cool' or interesting, or to escape, but there are lots of people who simply like to take them because they make LIFE more interesting and fun and exciting...for a while anyway.

[ZephyrusX]

I can't rep you for this, but interesting post nonetheless!

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

Unvalidated pain in the sense I'm using it here is pain felt--but that we don't think we "should" feel (perhaps we internalized a belief that we weren't allowed, perhaps it's not consistent with our self-image, etc), so it's suppressed or denied. Well, it's going to come out some way--and because we're denying the real origin for whatever reason it will be channeled into something else in our head. So instead of "I feel this pain because my parents trained me to live in fear" it might be "I feel this pain because I'm powerless to my eating disorder, drug addiction, cutting, etc". Now these things could in themselves have a separate or at least more complex origin, but they are given all the more pull--and appeal, in fact--because they provide an outlet and contextualization for the unvalidated pain.

By the way, I don't think this is an "official" psychological phenomenon (or at least I don't know about it) these are just ideas I've gathered from observing myself and others.

[Karanime]

taylor, I would like to just reply really quick, you don't have to answer.

First of all, I'm really lucky to be living in Las Vegas. Salvia is absolutely a drug I would love to try. I don't know about DMT because I've heard that you instantly forget the experience afterwards, but by descriptions of the high, I think its introspective effects are similar to DXM.

Secondly,

It sounds almost like you don't enjoy resisting the "negative", so you're just giving up

I can't imagine how anyone could enjoy resisting anything. I think that's one of the points at the core of my post.

If I can manage to like all of the things on both sides (the positive and negative), then I can make a better choice about which direction I feel I'm supposed to go in, whether it's good for me or not. I'd much rather fulfill my purpose while tearing apart my body (and reputation) than compromise for my own safety.

Thank you for your concern about my well-being, but a downward spiral is not exactly what I'm seeking. I have a goal, but I had to do scary things to find it, and I'll have to do scary things to achieve it.

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by James81

It's questions and thought processes like that that lead me to new insights quite a bit. I can envision myself smoking pot again (maybe), but I certainly wouldn't do it for "mind expansion," because it's not something you *need* to expand your mind. You can reach those states without drugs, and, actually, because you don't use drugs to get to those states, the insights you glean are actually much sweeter because you are more conscious when doing it.

“I think psychedelics play a major part in what we do, but having said that, I feel that if somebody's going to experiment with those things they really need to educate themselves about them. People just taking the chemicals and diving in without having any kind of preparation about what they're about to experience tend to have no frame of reference, so they're missing everything flying by and all these new perspectives. It's just a waste. They reach a little bit of spiritual enlightenment, but they end up going, 'Well, now I need that drug to get back there again.' The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug.” - Maynard James Keenan, Tool

My old bandmate was a huge Tool fan, and she shared this quote with me way back when I first met her.

I really think Maynard said it best. You're right, you don't NEED the drugs to get there, but experiencing them once (or maybe a few times, to get the hang of it) can really accelerate the process.

I imagine it's like being a beginner in a certain skill, and being thrown into a class meant for experts in that skill. It's incredibly difficult, but it gives you a real taste of what being an expert really means. And once you gain the skill to be able to understand and process it, it becomes a very rewarding experience.

I think one of the reasons pot affects me more than everyone I have ever met is because I am so introspective, and metacognitive. When I'm high, I think about the nature of the high, and what the effects mean about myself, the drug, and the human brain. Because I think of all these connections, and pot deconstructs these connections (making most others sluggish and dumb, and in most cases relaxed), I go "deeper" into the drug than most others.

Maybe try the pot again, but this time around, think about thinking. Think about how the drug is affecting your thinking, and what that process means about you, your mind, and human minds in general. Be ridiculously observant. I'm sure it will be tough if you're not used to constantly drawing conclusions about every tiny little observation in your life, but with practice it will become easier. This is exactly how I got the value I did from the drug.

While I do believe you could get to the same place I did without pot, I highly doubt the average person has the capability and the concentration to do so. The only people that would be able to reach this state would be people who are very far removed from society, like monks or something similar. They have time to, one, practice the meditation necessary to diffuse mental processes, and two, remove themselves from "real life", and thus have absolutely zero context for their thoughts. The zero context part is extremely important.

Oof, now I feel like I'm rambling. I can go into more detail if you'd like, just ask.

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

I haven't done much in the line of drugs, but this is something I've suspected too. I come to a lot of the insights people come to on drugs just by taking my thought processes to weird places. (Sometimes it just overwhelmingly and randomly strikes me just how *weird* being able to think or perceive in anyway is; or how the fact that my neighboor walked across the lawn and I saw it is a miracle because of how many things had to come together from that moment, and therefore all of life is a miracle, and therefor miracle is a moot concept...oh **** it it's just a construction of our minds that can serve a labeling purpose, etc, etc...)

I know exactly what you're talking about, and I can tell you that even I was surprised at how different the actual experience was.

Before doing pot, I knew that the connections in our heads were arbitrary. I knew that our knowledge base was a web of different concepts connected to each other somehow. I knew how memory worked. I knew how learning worked. I also knew that our brains make our decisions 30 seconds before we know we've made them. I knew this all intellectually, but in our normal state, we are so reliant on our normal brain processes that we are desensitized to it. Sometimes I would get a weird meta moment exactly like what you're describing, and I would be so shocked by the beauty of life, the absolute miracle of the universe. And sometimes I would deflate it in exactly the same way, following a path of logic that ultimately dismantles whatever I was thinking at the time.

And then I did pot, and it was such an incredible difference that I began to scoff at meta moments like that, because I had reached a logical point even more basic than anything I could have thought up before. Everything that I knew that I explained in that paragraph up there, I experienced. My brain utterly dissolved. I couldn't hold a thought because the structure that normally holds thoughts together disappeared. I had no context. There was no real life. Only ideas, and very simple ones at that. And I witnessed memory first hand. I saw myself learn, and remember, and associate. Before I had known that we were animals, and that we thought in similar ways to other animals. But strip away that structure, and you can SEE that you are primal. Your thought processes are crude and unsophisticated, they just happen quickly, and repeatedly, so you don't notice.

That was a terrible description. What's worse is that no one I know has experienced anything like what I had, so I don't know if doing the drug will be enough to understand the state I'm talking about. And I have this experience EVERY TIME I SMOKE IT, including when I do drugs similar to pot (like spice).

Whew. We got off topic, eh?

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by Jack Stark

OP, I'm not clear on whether you want to actually be addicted to using drugs, or if you simply wish to appear that you're addicted, when, really, you're actually not. Or wouldn't be.

Also, which drugs are we talking about? These questions are important.

I would like to appear to be addicted. I find it romantic. But I think I would be able to handle an actual addiction if it helped with the illusion. After all, I'm addicted to nicotine, and that's supposed to be one of the worst (in terms of addiction, not harm), right?

I wanted it to be cocaine, but I've since learned that cocaine isn't really my drug. I tried hydrocodone (Vicodin), but I'm too stingy with the pills to feign an addiction. The idea of faking a pot addiction makes me facepalm at the mere thought. That's not very glamorous at all.

So at the moment, I don't know. I'm still shopping around. I could pretend to be addicted to cocaine, but it would be extremely difficult, especially because it's expensive around here, and I'm in starving artist mode.

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Drugs aren't the only way to reach altered states of mind.
Hypnosis does the job as well.

I'm actually good friends with an excellent hypnotist, and the altered states he can put people in are a completely different beast than the ones drugs put you in.

Again, I must bring up the pot example again because it's shaped my life so profoundly. I've never heard of anyone in the "real world" experiencing this state through anything but drugs. I'm absolutely sure monks could do it, though, because deep meditation outside of normal society seems conducive to that state. What's ironic, though, is that I don't think many people can reach this state even with drugs.

I didn't think before I recommended pot, or else I would have realized that among the millions of pot smokers in the world, my experience was extremely odd, and not by any means the typical experience. The other drugs I mentioned work that way pretty consistently, and are extremely reliable in their effects. But pot will probably not affect anyone here in the way it has affected me.

^.^; In my excitement, I guess I hadn't noticed. I do still recommend that everyone experience the state I was in, I'm just now at a loss, because I don't know how to get anyone else there.

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by masteredfate

The point- there is nothing wrong with experimenting and experiencing life. But at further examination, there is always an underlying negative reason within yourself that you choose to do so. It's much more difficult to look at those negative reasons and work through them to create greater happiness/wisdom/faith/understanding than it is to do things that don't really make sense.

Everything you have said is absolutely excellent and absolutely true. Of course there are underlying reasons to all of these things. If I made your questions into a checklist, I would have checked many of them.

Because I am aware of these things, I'm constantly working through them. This decision to create this tortured persona is sort of a part of that. I don't want to do drugs because I'm too lazy to work through my issues. I want to do drugs because people associate so many deep and beautiful ideas with drugs, and I want to stir that up inside of them.

As for the whole polyamory thing, I've found that monogamy is much lazier than polyamory. After all, why get over jealousy when you're "supposed" to feel that way?

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Drugs make things more interesting and exciting...and fun. People tend to skip those reasons when they look at someone who takes them. Yes, many people do use them to appear 'cool' or interesting, or to escape, but there are lots of people who simply like to take them because they make LIFE more interesting and fun and exciting...for a while anyway.

This is an excellent way to view drugs. We have friends who use them for escape, and we have friends who do them for fun (but those are few and far between).

This one friend of mine, however, is absolutely PASSIONATE about pot. If it were legal, he would build an incredible career around it. He knows about the different strains, delivery systems, what kind of pot gives what kind of high, how to tell a strain by looks, smell, taste, etc. Literally his main goal in life is to earn enough money to not have to worry about building a pot fund. And while some people would immediately make judgments about how he's addicted, and needs help, oh what a sad life he must live, etc., it's clear to myself and my husband that he is in a state of pure flow and joy when he's working with this drug. And it's giving him an unshakable drive to be a contributing member of society (even if just to afford the drugs).

And that is amazing.

/<3

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Karanime

“I think psychedelics play a major part in what we do, but having said that, I feel that if somebody's going to experiment with those things they really need to educate themselves about them. People just taking the chemicals and diving in without having any kind of preparation about what they're about to experience tend to have no frame of reference, so they're missing everything flying by and all these new perspectives. It's just a waste. They reach a little bit of spiritual enlightenment, but they end up going, 'Well, now I need that drug to get back there again.' The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug.” - Maynard James Keenan, Tool

My old bandmate was a huge Tool fan, and she shared this quote with me way back when I first met her.

I really think Maynard said it best. You're right, you don't NEED the drugs to get there, but experiencing them once (or maybe a few times, to get the hang of it) can really accelerate the process.

Totally true.

What is wrong with using both methods? I don't see any harm in assisting the acceleration of the process at all, and as long as you don't over indulge then you are remaining respectful to the plants themselves, which is an important thing because they are alive and intelligent and demand respect.

[elucidate]

If you can find a bent chemistry major, or even an established scientist who runs an operation in his private life, and befriend them, that might be the ticket to your issue here.

Whilst it may not be any less expensive, you will know the person and I'm sure they could even allow you to watch while they cook the stuff?

There are people out there who do this for themselves. You just have to know what you are doing. He/she could even teach you if you asked nicely.

Originally Posted by Karanime

I would like to appear to be addicted. I find it romantic. But I think I would be able to handle an actual addiction if it helped with the illusion. After all, I'm addicted to nicotine, and that's supposed to be one of the worst (in terms of addiction, not harm), right?

I wanted it to be cocaine, but I've since learned that cocaine isn't really my drug. I tried hydrocodone (Vicodin), but I'm too stingy with the pills to feign an addiction. The idea of faking a pot addiction makes me facepalm at the mere thought. That's not very glamorous at all.

So at the moment, I don't know. I'm still shopping around. I could pretend to be addicted to cocaine, but it would be extremely difficult, especially because it's expensive around here, and I'm in starving artist mode.

/<3

[masteredfate]

Monogamy isn't about jealousy. It's about focus. Oneness. I would never call poly a negative. It's not a negative way to live or experience relationships. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to connect yourself to one person, then disconnect, then reconnect, etc. If you're a honey bee, be the bee. Polinate. Be fruitful. Float from flower to flower. But if you're are into oneness, don't call it jealousy. Jealousy is a negative spin on something positive- oneness and focus.

Originally Posted by Karanime

Everything you have said is absolutely excellent and absolutely true. Of course there are underlying reasons to all of these things. If I made your questions into a checklist, I would have checked many of them.

Because I am aware of these things, I'm constantly working through them. This decision to create this tortured persona is sort of a part of that. I don't want to do drugs because I'm too lazy to work through my issues. I want to do drugs because people associate so many deep and beautiful ideas with drugs, and I want to stir that up inside of them.

As for the whole polyamory thing, I've found that monogamy is much lazier than polyamory. After all, why get over jealousy when you're "supposed" to feel that way?

/<3

[masteredfate]

PS- Jealousy is a childish, unenlightened emotion. It reeks of lack. And that is not love or monogamy.

Originally Posted by Karanime

Everything you have said is absolutely excellent and absolutely true. Of course there are underlying reasons to all of these things. If I made your questions into a checklist, I would have checked many of them.

Because I am aware of these things, I'm constantly working through them. This decision to create this tortured persona is sort of a part of that. I don't want to do drugs because I'm too lazy to work through my issues. I want to do drugs because people associate so many deep and beautiful ideas with drugs, and I want to stir that up inside of them.

As for the whole polyamory thing, I've found that monogamy is much lazier than polyamory. After all, why get over jealousy when you're "supposed" to feel that way?

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by elucidate

What is wrong with using both methods? I don't see any harm in assisting the acceleration of the process at all, and as long as you don't over indulge then you are remaining respectful to the plants themselves, which is an important thing because they are alive and intelligent and demand respect.

Absolutely nothing wrong with using both methods. In fact, I would recommend using both, because once you build mental discipline by meditating without drugs, then the trips are much easier to handle, and you can learn much more.

/<3

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Karanime

Absolutely nothing wrong with using both methods. In fact, I would recommend using both, because once you build mental discipline by meditating without drugs, then the trips are much easier to handle, and you can learn much more.

/<3

This was my conclusion as well...way back when I started meditating. I'm still looking for the 'right' people to share my trips with. It'll happen one day...

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by elucidate

If you can find a bent chemistry major, or even an established scientist who runs an operation in his private life, and befriend them, that might be the ticket to your issue here.

Whilst it may not be any less expensive, you will know the person and I'm sure they could even allow you to watch while they cook the stuff?

There are people out there who do this for themselves. You just have to know what you are doing. He/she could even teach you if you asked nicely.

Cocaine is an extraction, actually, but I get what you mean.

I have a friend who is a bent chemistry major. He is an intern at a big lab here in Vegas, and he once mentioned to my husband, off-hand, that he could make meth out of the basic chemicals in our high school chemistry room.

As for getting it cheaper, I think I should tell you that cocaine prices are extremely inflated in Vegas. All we'd have to do is take a road trip elsewhere.

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by masteredfate

Monogamy isn't about jealousy. It's about focus. Oneness. I would never call poly a negative. It's not a negative way to live or experience relationships. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to connect yourself to one person, then disconnect, then reconnect, etc. If you're a honey bee, be the bee. Polinate. Be fruitful. Float from flower to flower. But if you're are into oneness, don't call it jealousy. Jealousy is a negative spin on something positive- oneness and focus.

PS- Jealousy is a childish, unenlightened emotion. It reeks of lack. And that is not love or monogamy.

What's this "disconnect, then reconnect" nonsense? I can't think of any kind of relationship where this is the ideal, except maybe serial monogamy.

I wouldn't say I'm "into" oneness, but I don't relate it at all to jealousy. In fact, I think polyamory is a bit more reflective of oneness than monogamy.

I absolutely disagree that jealousy is simply oneness and focus. As you said, jealousy is childish, but monogamy presents a convenient excuse for it. I know many people who give up their polyamorous tendencies because their partner is jealous, and they believe the jealousy is justified, because monogamy is the norm.

I could never imply that jealousy and monogamy are linked. Sometimes I don't feel attracted to anyone but my husband, and that has nothing to do with jealousy.

/<3

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Karanime

Cocaine is an extraction, actually, but I get what you mean.

Sure. You mentioned another powder/pill as well though, which is why I offered the option. No need to limit yourself to one thing if you can manufacture others.

I have a friend who is a bent chemistry major. He is an intern at a big lab here in Vegas, and he once mentioned to my husband, off-hand, that he could make meth out of the basic chemicals in our high school chemistry room.

Then you're on your way.

As for getting it cheaper, I think I should tell you that cocaine prices are extremely inflated in Vegas. All we'd have to do is take a road trip elsewhere.

Roadtrip sounds fun.

[homestudycoach]

Originally Posted by Karanime

I've done a lot of drugs in my life, and some of them have taught me incredible things about the nature of life. The first being that we are animals. Our existence on this earth is simply a result of the laws of physics, working on the tiniest processes of life so that evolution can occur. Because of this, right and wrong can't possibly exist concretely. They are a concept we've made up, as humans trying to make sense of the world. The second is that the way we think is somewhat mechanical, but also imprecise. We make associations the exact same way all of the animals do, we just make more of them, and we're able to do it faster. Knowing that our brains work mechanically, rather than spiritually, has taught me that we can associate ANYTHING with ANYTHING ELSE.


/<3

Funnily enough, that was my experience with the drugs scene too, they make people think they have something incredibly profound to say while they are high and when they are straight they come to the realisation that they were just talking over the same old stuff thats been said better a hundred times before.

[masteredfate]

You are calling monogamy an excuse for jealousy. You see monogamy as a bad thing and I have no desire to convince you otherwise. There's no productivity in a conversation where someone has already convinced themselves that something is negative. It's like people who don't believe in God or heaven and hell or something. Someone here may want to convince you, but I'm not the one. Too much ego is needed to convince someone else of your "right" way- and that's not where I am at or what I'm about.

Best of luck in your quest towards addiction.

Originally Posted by Karanime

What's this "disconnect, then reconnect" nonsense? I can't think of any kind of relationship where this is the ideal, except maybe serial monogamy.

I wouldn't say I'm "into" oneness, but I don't relate it at all to jealousy. In fact, I think polyamory is a bit more reflective of oneness than monogamy.

I absolutely disagree that jealousy is simply oneness and focus. As you said, jealousy is childish, but monogamy presents a convenient excuse for it. I know many people who give up their polyamorous tendencies because their partner is jealous, and they believe the jealousy is justified, because monogamy is the norm.

I could never imply that jealousy and monogamy are linked. Sometimes I don't feel attracted to anyone but my husband, and that has nothing to do with jealousy.

/<3

[homestudycoach]

Originally Posted by masteredfate

Too much ego is needed to convince someone else of your "right" way- and that's not where I am at or what I'm about.

'A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still'

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by homestudycoach

Funnily enough, that was my experience with the drugs scene too, they make people think they have something incredibly profound to say while they are high and when they are straight they come to the realisation that they were just talking over the same old stuff thats been said better a hundred times before.

Yeah, I felt that way too. It made it extremely difficult to discuss my experiences with anyone.

The point I was trying to drive home (I'm obviously not very good at it) is that this concept can be said and understood the world over, but it's COMPLETELY different when you're sitting there experiencing it. I understood everything I'm saying about human nature now before I did any drugs, but experiencing it was a completely different story.

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by masteredfate

You are calling monogamy an excuse for jealousy. You see monogamy as a bad thing and I have no desire to convince you otherwise. There's no productivity in a conversation where someone has already convinced themselves that something is negative. It's like people who don't believe in God or heaven and hell or something. Someone here may want to convince you, but I'm not the one. Too much ego is needed to convince someone else of your "right" way- and that's not where I am at or what I'm about.

I didn't mean to imply that monogamy is ONLY an excuse for jealousy, only that it's convenient to use as one.

Also,

There's no productivity in a conversation where someone has already convinced themselves that something is negative.

Hence my original post.

/<3

[Mounds]

I've always struggled with the "What" of drugs. What benefit do I derive from drugs?

Many people have told me about how drugs have taken them to new places. After that, they proceed to explain all sorts of new concepts which I've heard before in different words. So again, I ask the "What is the purpose?".

Usually after that, it comes down to expanding my mind in new directions. I've practiced self-induced trance daily for over a year now. I've astral travelled and have experienced past lives. I've become far more spiritual and gotten in touch with my higher self.

Drugs seem to keep you in the conscious mind. Many profound thoughts and experiences seem to arise from drugs but it never seems to get past there.

This isn't to say there is no positive benefit. Clearly there are lots of positive benefits to lots of people! I do think it's a bit limiting to think that most people can't achieve a higher state without drugs. I actually think ANYONE can achieve a state like that without ever touching a drug. All it takes is time, energy, and an open mind.