Perhaps Darkworking is for YOU

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Annie Zero

I would say that some darkworkers function entirely different from the average lightworker, and it would be flippant and erasing to say "oh, you're really just like us! You should approach personal development/spirituality in the same ways we do and you'll be better off!" No.

I've already repped you for something else but kudos on this one.

We can learn from each other, definitely, but in terms of how the paths function we have some very different and incompatible methodologies. Revenge is the most obvious-you'll never see a dyed in the wool lightworker embarking on or praising revenge unless they're going nova (to borrow Asmoday's term). They can learn to use the underlying drive but they will never do something solely for the sake of personal justice.

If I get revenge on someone it's because I want them to feel what I did/do. I'm not going to ask them to see things from my point of view, I'm not going to appeal to their better nature, I'm going to find their triggers and hit them. What they do with that is none of my concern.

That kind of focus, the ability to harness wrath-lightworkers need that, too. They need it, but they will never use it the same way. For them, it's more about not budging an inch against malevolent (or misguided) external forces, and having the will to establish a better world even if that means picking up the proverbial sword.

In terms of the actions both sides take it doesn't look any different (in most cases) and yet the difference is immense. The reason it's so obscured is that it answers a question: "Who am I?"

If you're looking at anything above the identity level polarity doesn't make any sense and the true power of the concept will elude you.

[JohnMartinez]

I personally really enjoyed the writings on the website. I myself have thought recently in living in the now and being aware of everything around me. Now although I would love to believe that there is a powerful element in the world that protects us all I simply cannot fully accept it in any forums it's been presented to me so far. Rather I work on myself, attempt to help others, and try to work twords progressing as an individual in the society I live in. I try to be realistic in my approach to life, it is, limiting in a way. However self expression seems to feel genuine.

Interesting concepts, thanks for sharing I was unaware of light and dark workers

[Harmonium]

This had been an interesting thread.

Cado, have you read this?
Demon Dancing — A Beginner’s Guide to Demonology

[Annie Zero]

Originally Posted by Cado

/--/ Because if you've /--/ never used the foci /--/.

I thought "foci" was plural for "focus", does it mean something else too?

(I just saw that word someplace else and now I'm confused as to what the flop "foci" are and how you pronounce it (foki or fossi).)

[Karanime]

Whoo, okay.

Fundamentally, light and darkworking are based on flow of energy.

Lightworkers constantly focus their energy outwards. Darkworkers focus their energy inwards. Lightworkers strive to make their world better. Darkworkers strive to make themselves better. Both are difficult, but it's quite a bit more difficult to exist while blazing a "center path" and doing away with polarization entirely. It's just not practical.

I love the irony here, but consider the economic views of Democrats and Republicans in America. In this example, Democrats are lightworkers, and Republicans are darkworkers. To clarify, Democrats tend to be more socialist, and Republicans tend to be more capitalist. Democrats believe that poverty is caused by a corrupt system, or an outside influence. This is the influence they try to change. Republicans believe that poverty is caused by an inner weakness in the poor populace, or an inner influence. This is the influence they want to change.

Both sides are correct to a degree. The reason poverty still exists is because they attempt to compromise. They're trying to blaze a center path. And it's just not working, because these two approaches conflict.

Both sides can also be compassionate or hateful. The lightworking side can be downright spiteful towards the system, and direct their hate towards the people they believe are perpetuating the system. The darkworking side can give their hearts out to these poor people and attempt to show them how to pull themselves out of poverty (though for a true darkworker, they'd be doing it for their own reasons, but not destructive ones)

On either side, the negative approach is useless and just serves to confuse and infuriate everyone.

Lightworkers and darkworkers will often do the same things, though, because what's the best for everyone will often resonate with both sides (like getting rid of poverty).

One more example to illustrate this. Say a government is corrupt and needs to be taken down. Both the lightworker and the darkworker will move to take it down, but for very different reasons. The lightworker recognizes that this government is bad for the people, and is disempowering them and making them miserable. The darkworker recognizes that this government is not good for himself, and that the government clearly violates his personal values.

I am a darkworker, but I would never consider harming another person for my own gain. Perhaps I would consider harming them for their own good, but if this person will not affect me in the near future, I couldn't give a damn about whether or not they better themselves. They're on their own. In contrast, a lightworker will make it a project to help this person become happier, regardless of whether or not it affects them.

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by VinceG

A demon's just going to push you to destroy yourself.

Well, that settles it. Darkworking is absolutely not demon possession.

The push in darkworking is to better yourself, not rage at everyone around you until you defeat yourself.

/<3

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Karanime

Well, that settles it. Darkworking is absolutely not demon possession.

The push in darkworking is to better yourself, not rage at everyone around you until you defeat yourself.

/<3

Yep. Darkworking's just one more path open to us. We can quibble until the Sun turns the Earth into dust over which is 'better', but we'd just be tilting at cosmic windmills. Some people will be drawn to one, others will be drawn to the other. It's just that simple. And it's not as if one is a negation of the other. For all that talk of polarity, the two paths are not really opposites. The difference can be described neatly as the difference between zero-sum and non zero-sum.

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Yep. Darkworking's just one more path open to us. We can quibble until the Sun turns the Earth into dust over which is 'better', but we'd just be tilting at cosmic windmills. Some people will be drawn to one, others will be drawn to the other. It's just that simple. And it's not as if one is a negation of the other. For all that talk of polarity, the two paths are not really opposites.

That's an interesting change of heart. Earlier you were talking about how demons possess us to be darkworkers and whatnot. And if you meant that demons possess us to do things against our "genetic altruism," not necessarily darkworking, then that's hardly relevant to this thread.

Or maybe it wasn't a change of heart, and you merely misunderstood darkworking. Entirely possible.

The difference can be described neatly as the difference between zero-sum and non zero-sum.

I don't think I understand. Are you saying that darkworking operates on the idea that one man's gain is another's loss? I see no reason for this to be the case. Please, explain.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Karanime

That's an interesting change of heart. Earlier you were talking about how demons possess us to be darkworkers and whatnot. And if you meant that demons possess us to do things against our "genetic altruism," not necessarily darkworking, then that's hardly relevant to this thread.

I wasn't saying that darkworkers were infested with demons. I was saying Ziondino was infested with demons. Big difference.

I don't think I understand. Are you saying that darkworking operates on the idea that one man's gain is another's loss? I see no reason for this to be the case. Please, explain.

I think darkworking operates from the principle that most other people approach life as a zero-sum game, the only way to succeed is to beat them at that game. So they spend a lot of time getting good at those games.

Whereas lightworkers will spend that time finding a zero-sum game to play, instead.

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by VinceG

I wasn't saying that darkworkers were infested with demons. I was saying Ziondino was infested with demons. Big difference

Ah. I was confused since you and Cado seemed to build an entire discussion out of that, and since this is a thread about darkworking...

I think darkworking operates from the principle that most other people approach life as a zero-sum game, the only way to succeed is to beat them at that game. So they spend a lot of time getting good at those games.

Whereas lightworkers will spend that time finding a zero-sum game to play, instead.

Hm. That seems like too shallow a definition for darkworking. Life is not a zero-sum game, and people who understand life understand this, whether they're a darkworker, lightworker, or unpolarized.

Darkworkers generally spend a lot of time getting good at everything they can get their hands on. And I assume you meant that lightworkers try to find a non-zero-sum game to play, which is correct. Actually, they'll often attempt to make the game fair for everyone, regardless of the skill level of the "players".

/<3

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by Karanime

I am a darkworker, but I would never consider harming another person for my own gain. Perhaps I would consider harming them for their own good, but if this person will not affect me in the near future, I couldn't give a damn about whether or not they better themselves. They're on their own. In contrast, a lightworker will make it a project to help this person become happier, regardless of whether or not it affects them.

/<3

"Happier" isn't the right word, at least for this lightworker. I'd invite people to be more in line with Truth, in a compassionate way that acknowledges their personhood. Though coaching people isn't the end all and be all--certain people you can't really help because they don't want to be helped. Certain people aren't going to be helped by traditional techniques and it takes insight and acceptance on the part of the lightworker to simply a) acknowledge their path and continue on with yours and b) act appropriately at the point where your paths meet. This can mean a lot of things and often there isn't a clear cut right answer. That's why it's helpful to have a Code of Conduct and principles you act on as a default, but more attuned behavior when you know the person.

Originally Posted by Karanime

Darkworkers generally spend a lot of time getting good at everything they can get their hands on. And I assume you meant that lightworkers try to find a non-zero-sum game to play, which is correct. Actually, they'll often attempt to make the game fair for everyone, regardless of the skill level of the "players".

/<3

A game is just a part of life--and even when it's a big game that one makes their focus (like a career) one can't mistake it for the whole thing. In that sense, there's nothing wrong with people "losing" at a particular point because that sort of loss is illusory. There is no failure--only feedback.

Likewise, the world is no worse if I become good at martial arts. Sure, I'd be more skillful than some, but I haven't deprived anyone of anything. In fact it's possible that those skills could later be put to use to help others. It does no good for those with good intentions to disempower themselves.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Karanime

Both sides are correct to a degree. The reason poverty still exists is because they attempt to compromise. They're trying to blaze a center path. And it's just not working, because these two approaches conflict.

It isn't working because both sides are corporate shills and the politicians currently in power are only concerned with staying in power, they are not looking at the longterm ramifications of their actions.

If they really wanted to end poverty it would have been done yesterday. You're right in that their philosophies contradict to a point where, if they held true to their platforms, certain compromises would be impossible, but they can both learn from each other's approaches and indeed the purist views of both can be applied in specific circumstances on a smaller scale.

In other words there is a difference between compromise which forces both sides to gimp themselves and compromise which extends from mutual understanding and a big-picture view.

I will be the first to say that things are so ****ed up right now largely because darkworkers have all the power. It's why I get so frustrated with lightworkers who are content to stay at a level where they are "sending positive vibes" into the world without actually doing something-but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

I might be taking your analogy further than you meant to, but I felt the underlying principles needed to be expanded upon and addressed.

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by Cado

It isn't working because both sides are corporate shills and the politicians currently in power are only concerned with staying in power, they are not looking at the longterm ramifications of their actions.

If they really wanted to end poverty it would have been done yesterday. You're right in that their philosophies contradict to a point where, if they held true to their platforms, certain compromises would be impossible, but they can both learn from each other's approaches and indeed the purist views of both can be applied in specific circumstances on a smaller scale.

In other words there is a difference between compromise which forces both sides to gimp themselves and compromise which extends from mutual understanding and a big-picture view.

I will be the first to say that things are so ****ed up right now largely because darkworkers have all the power. It's why I get so frustrated with lightworkers who are content to stay at a level where they are "sending positive vibes" into the world without actually doing something-but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

I might be taking your analogy further than you meant to, but I felt the underlying principles needed to be expanded upon and addressed.

And as a lightworker, I say hell yes to this entire post. But especially the bolded portion considering the thread.

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

"Happier" isn't the right word, at least for this lightworker. I'd invite people to be more in line with Truth, in a compassionate way that acknowledges their personhood. Though coaching people isn't the end all and be all--certain people you can't really help because they don't want to be helped. Certain people aren't going to be helped by traditional techniques and it takes insight and acceptance on the part of the lightworker to simply a) acknowledge their path and continue on with yours and b) act appropriately at the point where your paths meet. This can mean a lot of things and often there isn't a clear cut right answer. That's why it's helpful to have a Code of Conduct and principles you act on as a default, but more attuned behavior when you know the person.

I agree with this approach. Sometimes, people just cannot be helped. This is an excellent policy as a lightworker. But as a darkworker, I rarely try to find that distinction. I see it as a waste of energy to try to push through that person's walls just to help them. If it will soften them up so they cause less drama in my life, I might take a shot at it, but if it doesn't affect me, it's absolutely 100% their problem.

/<3

P.S. I didn't mean to put "happier" when I posted that. It was just the first word that came to mind. I meant "better", because a lightworker will try to make other people's lives better based on their own definition of what better is. For you it's getting closer to Truth. For other lightworkers it can be something different, but you're aware of that.

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by Cado

I might be taking your analogy further than you meant to, but I felt the underlying principles needed to be expanded upon and addressed.

Lol. I was simplifying it immensely to illustrate what polarization is, but you're correct. In politics, there are many more issues than the one I pointed out, some much more important.

For some reason, I feel as if the people in power are not "enlightened" darkworkers. They seem to be more naive and unaware in general than most of the people on this forum, polarization aside. And I agree with what you said about the lightworkers just standing on the sidelines. They don't seem to be too enlightened either.

/<3

[lycan]

Karanime,

I just have to say you are hot.

When you fulfill your dream to become Amy Winehouse (but prettier, I hope), I'll totally buy your CDs.

That is all. You can now go back to the jedi vs sith debate.

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by Karanime

I agree with this approach. Sometimes, people just cannot be helped. This is an excellent policy as a lightworker. But as a darkworker, I rarely try to find that distinction. I see it as a waste of energy to try to push through that person's walls just to help them. If it will soften them up so they cause less drama in my life, I might take a shot at it, but if it doesn't affect me, it's absolutely 100% their problem.

/<3

I'd still say it's 100% their problem (as in, it doesn't have to affect what I call me if I don't want it too) but I choose to become involved anyway, cause that's my path. Or sometimes I don't become involved--or sometimes I do and then give up. Sometime it's a matter of resource distribution: I can't be everywhere at once, and some people I'm not going to help because they've decided they don't want that. It's not at all clear cut.

P.S. I didn't mean to put "happier" when I posted that. It was just the first word that came to mind. I meant "better", because a lightworker will try to make other people's lives better based on their own definition of what better is. For you it's getting closer to Truth. For other lightworkers it can be something different, but you're aware of that.

Yes, yes, that's part of it. But I think what's more fundamental is an identification with The Whole, and trying to improve The Whole instead of just individuals. Like I said, some individuals are determined not to be "helped". And that's in quotation marks for a reason, because they could be exactly where they need to be.

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

But I think what's more fundamental is an identification with The Whole, and trying to improve The Whole instead of just individuals.

A very lightworker point of view, that is.

Since I'm not so familiar with the philosophy of being a lightworker, I'm sure I'll get things wrong (or just a little off) from time to time. I guess I'll defer to you in those cases, since you seem to be very familiar with it.

From the darkworker point of view, improving individuals will absolutely improve The Whole. Or the whole (in lower case).

/<3

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by Karanime

A very lightworker point of view, that is.

Since I'm not so familiar with the philosophy of being a lightworker, I'm sure I'll get things wrong (or just a little off) from time to time. I guess I'll defer to you in those cases, since you seem to be very familiar with it.

From the darkworker point of view, improving individuals will absolutely improve The Whole. Or the whole (in lower case).

/<3

Exactly. I haven't heard anyone but Steve describe lightworking besides from an overly simplified and often moralistic (meaning they try to conflate light and dark with good and evil) perspective. And even he has parts I disagree with, or I think are imprecisely expressed (conflating light and dark with love and fear), so I'm trying to put out there what I feel is clarifying things.

I respect the dark side of things (and I'm confused by those who identify as lightworkers and seem to have an allergy to it), and from a meta-perspective I'd beyond agree that darkworkers do help the whole. But expressing it in terms of lightworking being identified with The Universe (upper case--I do have an allergy to the term God and I don't feel it's clear or appropriate in connotation, as I'm not attached or decided upon whether the whole has a consciousness anything like we'd recognize or at all) I think helps portray the energy. With these concepts I'm finding the closest expressions we can communicate are attempts to describe the experience--not just the idea--of things.

When I say lightworking, I don't exactly mean the historical Right Hand Path. Much of the reason for that is that the academic definitions are based almost entirely around behavior and in a social context far different than our own. They're not synonymous, and I think one would get the wrong impression from just looking at the RHP as lightworking, but I do think/guess that they are expressions of the same drive.

When I say I'm a lightworker, I'm not attached to the term or "sure" about it, even. It's not an objective or material construct so I don't feel as authoritative as I may come across, haha. This is where I do agree with Steve--I'm using polarity as a growth accelerator, tool for self-knowledge, and experimentation with energy, spirituality and my own psyche. I'm using it as a lens to funnel those concepts in ways that can be processed; and I'm using it as a segue to learning about and integrating more paradigms: be they cultural, historical, literary, philosophical, what have you. Polarity is the tool; the light side is my natural inclination--it feels organic.

And if polarity is as powerful as I'm beginning to get a sense it is: both sides will be wise to appreciate the other. To say I still have a lot to learn would be an understatement, but I think the voices from each side need to be heard in conversation--if I make a statement about darkworking that an identified darkworker feels should be clarified, I think that's very helpful.

[Asmoday]

Originally Posted by Annie Zero

I thought "foci" was plural for "focus", does it mean something else too?

(I just saw that word someplace else and now I'm confused as to what the flop "foci" are and how you pronounce it (foki or fossi).)

It is plural -- the foci are the emotional centers that you "slosh" energy around in to retrain the mind and unrestrict the "spirit".

Often, the foci is assumed to be the object one uses during the exercise, which is merely a prop, but necessary, to generate the central paradigm shift, where the emotions are seen as completely internally generated, not the other way around.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Asmoday

It is plural -- the foci are the emotional centers that you "slosh" energy around in to retrain the mind and unrestrict the "spirit".

Often, the foci is assumed to be the object one uses during the exercise, which is merely a prop, but necessary, to generate the central paradigm shift, where the emotions are seen as completely internally generated, not the other way around.

To expand on what he's saying-or perhaps to put it into my own words-it's like a mirror for the subtle aspects of self which, until we awaken, escape our notice, and once realized they become tools instead of cages.

Emotion is good, desire is holy, but only when you are their master and not the other way around.

And how does that shift occur? "You must accept before you can transmute." I'd almost liken it to Aikido which is a martial art where you use your opponent's momentum to control them.

Delving deeper would go beyond the scope of this thread and my own understanding so I'll stop here. Asmoday, I'm looking forward to when you finish that ebook.

[Totallycool]

[QUOTE=Cado;961287]The end result is the same: both wake up. Both integrate some of the other side's energy, methods, etc. into their own paradigm-both mix as they advance. Both can utilize the full emotional spectrum. (To all you would-be lightworkers out there, good luck getting anything done if you shun hatred. It's going to arise within your consciousness sometimes whether you think it's bad or not, and it's only by accepting it that you can find a way to deal with it within your paradigm. You handle it differently than we do but you still handle it.)

Lightworkers are automatically limited in terms of the actions they can take because love and compassion are their top values. That's not a complete picture of what lightworking is but the basic idea is that they do no harm (or as little harm as possible) unless something forces their hand. A competent lightworker will understand that while violent revolution is a bad idea, you can't hug governments and corporations into submission.

And yet even then every action is tempered with love.

A darkworker has no obligation toward anyone but themselves. "No obligation" doesn't mean they can't choose to value things like love, compassion, or justice, it's just integrated into a different framework and thus the results are very different both energetically and psychologically, even if they do things which would normally be considered selfless.

Their every action is tempered by the push to empower themselves.

What people do not understand is that darkworkers are empowered by the connections they form. Have you ever been in love? That's some potent ****. When you have a strong inward pull and someone is sending a constant stream of that to you it's f'ing incredible.

The same goes for respect, comraderie, etc. We can feed off of any energy with some practice, but I for one prefer those. It's important to have strong supportive structures before you draw someone's ire toward yourself.

As individualistic and independent as we are, a good darkworker knows that you need people. Even if they think of it strictly in terms of, say, business connections, if you don't have anyone else on your side you're impotent. You'll be crushed the first time someone with more resources at their disposal decides you're too much of a nuisance to ignore. In a way, that forces our hand and causes the energy mixture I was talking about a few paragraphs ago.

Darkworkers are liberated from every law except cause and effect. If you can accept the consequences you can do whatever you like. When faced with that realization, I would choose to make a world not unlike what the lightworkers would choose. I don't want to live in a world where murder is kosher and I could be stabbed in broad daylight. I don't want to live in a world where everyone is a callous ******* and nobody shows compassion toward each other, ever. I don't want to live in a world where the rich destroy the ladder other people need to climb in order to reach a better station in life.[QUOTE=Cado;961287]

I am interested in learning more about what all this light working and dark working biz is really about. What is the importance/ significance of polarizing? Because to me this light vs dark just seems like an extreme duality in philosophy. Darkworkers ARE limited just as Lightworkers ARE limited if they are 100% selfish/selfless. It is also impossible to be completely either way forever. I do believe some people can strive and even achieve universal love, but there are also different kinds of love and yes the world is complicated. I also feel that i you can make a choice to only love self after being rejected by or rejecting others; however, everything you do for others would be in scorn or vain. You'd never make love, for example, because you cannot love another. You would just be using people and screwing them over for your own benifit. And if you do love another, you are no longer 100% selfishly polarized.

I find it interesting that some of the writers an posters who claim the dark side that you wouldn't want to live in a world full of you. Where as the lightworker would want to live in a world full of them. Yet, darkworkers seem to look down on lightworkers. Why? If you are opposite sides of polarity then neither one would be less than the other.

Again, I do not really see the significants of this light/dark thing because it just seems to be a way to brainwash your mind and your habits. It seems to me that it would be more important to be balanced and to be your own individual, and have specific goals. What do you really want and why?

[Annie Zero]

Originally Posted by Totallycool

It seems to me that it would be more important to be balanced and to be your own individual, and have specific goals. What do you really want and why?

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Totallycool

I find it interesting that some of the writers an posters who claim the dark side that you wouldn't want to live in a world full of you. Where as the lightworker would want to live in a world full of them.

That's because most "lightworkers" don't know what the hell they're talking about. They gravitate to the label because it's safe; they can easily shove all their moralistic bs under its banner and claim they stand for a righteous cause. They're nothing more than sleeper blowhards who deserve to be mocked.

That isn't to say there aren't legitimate lightworkers who think the world would be better without any darkworkers, but they're as misguided as darkworkers who think we can do without them. Which brings me to point 2-

Yet, darkworkers seem to look down on lightworkers. Why? If you are opposite sides of polarity then neither one would be less than the other.

Generalize much?

I have a deep respect for legitimate lightworkers and I collaborate with them as often as I can, both because we can accomplish more together and because I learn a lot more about my own path by contrasting it with theirs. It's like Mariana said about how talking about the experience is so much more beneficial than trying to break it down into sets of actions, religious practices, and social mores.

I wouldn't want to live in a world that's all darkworkers. I wouldn't want to live in a world that's all lightworkers, either. Both are bad, bad juju. We balance each other out. When that balance is thrown off... You get what's happening, right now, on the world stage.

Again, I do not really see the significants of this light/dark thing because it just seems to be a way to brainwash your mind and your habits. It seems to me that it would be more important to be balanced and to be your own individual, and have specific goals. What do you really want and why?

You don't get it. Plain and simple. You haven't put even the slightest bit of effort into understanding it, or presenting a convincing counter case for why it's brainwashing, etc.

Your two paragraph reply isn't going to suddenly enlighten the rest of us and clarify the muddled concepts we've discussed here. Please, if you're going to comment again, take the time to put some work behind it.

[Asmoday]

This topic deserves a book unto itself, so I'm going to try to keep this focused and sweet...

The problem here, with this topic, arises again and again, and I'd like to reflect on the cause.

It is the paradigm people are bringing to the discussion. We're assuming a dichotomy where, once Lightworking is defined, Darkworking must be based in the opposite. This assumption is the flawed one...

Thus, over the history of this forum, we started with:

Lightworkers are love-based, so Darkworkers are fear-based.

But, in dang near consensus, we agreed that was incorrect. We now appear to have moved to:

Lightworking is other-serving, so Darkworking is self-serving.

This too, is wrong, for both.

We need to back up. Forget Light or Dark (the polarity, the charge, so to speak) -- and talk about the polarized versus the unpolarized.

Polarization itself is just a label for a natural process, where a person wakes up and realizes that they have creative power over the world, that they are the Source Cause of their lives. This realization starts small and grows. In the case of the Darkworker, we call this a Descent. Its been talked about through time in countless ways and names, even in modern psychology -- the external locus of control vs the internal locus of control.

But, more importantly, we can see that the two are not "polar opposites" and stop trying to force this round peg into a square whole. In fact, they are merely opposite sides of the same coin.

I would put it as, Light Working is Other-Love Based, Darkworking is Self-Love based. But, perhaps a better way to put it is that Lightworkers Honor the God Without, while Darkworkers honor the God Within. Its a bit of a yin-yang situation, each side containing a bit of the other. The distinction is subtle, but it has far reaching implications, hence the difference we see between the polarities.

This is why a Darkworker can be compassionate, or dedicated to a larger cause -- we must honor the Self. The Darkworker that suppresses these feelings is obstructing their Descent. However, we can and often do engage in self-serving acts. Nearly everyone would agree that a Darkworker who does not honor what I would call a "Free Choice" desire for revenge is also obstructing their Descent.

The same is true with Lightworkers, while they must serve the greater good, it would be naive to think a LW who took a moment to themselves to satisfy their own needs was obstructing their "Ascent". So, these black-white, all or nothing extreme views look good in the mind but crumble in front of reality.

The reason this difference happens is because of the polarization itself. At the time of first awakening, in reflection, the individual will experience a dominant focus (but BOTH will be present), they will focus on the suffering they have caused others, or the suffering they have caused themselves. A simple, subtle shift in focus is what gives rise to the different paths.

These two distinctions have been around for a long, long time, just under different labels. One, for example, is the Left-Hand versus Right-Hand path.

It is polarization itself that drives the power-gains that a lot of people are after, not the polarity (LW or DW). The polarity lends itself better, but not exclusively, to different types of power...

In short, I didn't have much time here, but I hope that helps muddling it through.

Also, keep in mind -- and this isn't meant to be snarky or snooty -- but this honestly can't be fully understood looking in through the window from outside. It has to be experienced to be perceived. And, insofar as I know from all my time observing and instructing -- the polarization cannot be forced, it has to rise organically.

[elucidate]

In 2+ years here, this is the first post that actually got through to me about this whole business.

I don't see why it had to get so complicated?

Originally Posted by Asmoday

This topic deserves a book unto itself, so I'm going to try to keep this focused and sweet...

The problem here, with this topic, arises again and again, and I'd like to reflect on the cause.

It is the paradigm people are bringing to the discussion. We're assuming a dichotomy where, once Lightworking is defined, Darkworking must be based in the opposite. This assumption is the flawed one...

Thus, over the history of this forum, we started with:

Lightworkers are love-based, so Darkworkers are fear-based.

But, in dang near consensus, we agreed that was incorrect. We now appear to have moved to:

Lightworking is other-serving, so Darkworking is self-serving.

This too, is wrong, for both.

We need to back up. Forget Light or Dark (the polarity, the charge, so to speak) -- and talk about the polarized versus the unpolarized.

Polarization itself is just a label for a natural process, where a person wakes up and realizes that they have creative power over the world, that they are the Source Cause of their lives. This realization starts small and grows. In the case of the Darkworker, we call this a Descent. Its been talked about through time in countless ways and names, even in modern psychology -- the external locus of control vs the internal locus of control.

But, more importantly, we can see that the two are not "polar opposites" and stop trying to force this round peg into a square whole. In fact, they are merely opposite sides of the same coin.

I would put it as, Light Working is Other-Love Based, Darkworking is Self-Love based. But, perhaps a better way to put it is that Lightworkers Honor the God Without, while Darkworkers honor the God Within. Its a bit of a yin-yang situation, each side containing a bit of the other. The distinction is subtle, but it has far reaching implications, hence the difference we see between the polarities.

This is why a Darkworker can be compassionate, or dedicated to a larger cause -- we must honor the Self. The Darkworker that suppresses these feelings is obstructing their Descent. However, we can and often do engage in self-serving acts. Nearly everyone would agree that a Darkworker who does not honor what I would call a "Free Choice" desire for revenge is also obstructing their Descent.

The same is true with Lightworkers, while they must serve the greater good, it would be naive to think a LW who took a moment to themselves to satisfy their own needs was obstructing their "Ascent". So, these black-white, all or nothing extreme views look good in the mind but crumble in front of reality.

The reason this difference happens is because of the polarization itself. At the time of first awakening, in reflection, the individual will experience a dominant focus (but BOTH will be present), they will focus on the suffering they have caused others, or the suffering they have caused themselves. A simple, subtle shift in focus is what gives rise to the different paths.

These two distinctions have been around for a long, long time, just under different labels. One, for example, is the Left-Hand versus Right-Hand path.

It is polarization itself that drives the power-gains that a lot of people are after, not the polarity (LW or DW). The polarity lends itself better, but not exclusively, to different types of power...

In short, I didn't have much time here, but I hope that helps muddling it through.

Also, keep in mind -- and this isn't meant to be snarky or snooty -- but this honestly can't be fully understood looking in through the window from outside. It has to be experienced to be perceived. And, insofar as I know from all my time observing and instructing -- the polarization cannot be forced, it has to rise organically.

[arpee]

The best way I have ever heard it is that light/dark is like children play cops/robbers. They are BOTH good but they are just playing their roles.

Light is about unconditional love and joy for others AND for self.

Dark is about the lack of it so that you can want it more and appreciate the light more...

I heard that some people promise to come here on the "dark" side so that they can teach others how good it is to love and keep hope. Even though they know they will get bad karma they still come to the evil side because they love the person...

[Cado]

Hehehe! For once I seem to have said what you did before you did, Asmoday.

The Art of Polarity

...Granted, I picked up a lot of that from you, but let me revel for a moment.

And that topic differs a bit in that I attempted to define some of the differences. I think, when it's made clear just how the two sides interact and play off each other, the phenomenon (and the nature of it) is much easier to comprehend.

Light and dark get split as positive and negative, which they are not analogous to. It relates to something that came up earlier, namely the matter of demons-demons and angels aren't true opposites. In fact "demon" is often just a label that's been applied to mythological and ethereal beings which didn't fit within the Christian canon. To work with demons, regardless of whether they're real or mere psychological constructs, is not the same thing as working with a negative entity, and the reasons for the human-subtle interaction are going to be different depending on the kind of energies at play.

After all, the material world is incredibly vast and complex, and the glimpses I've had beyond the veil imply that the subtle is vastly more so. To place it strictly in terms of right or wrong or good or evil is to confine divinity to human terms so that we feel like we can understand it-so that we feel safe.

Here I would use the actual night and day cycles as a metaphor. The night can be dangerous, and if the sky is clouded and you're away from the city lights you're as good as a blind man no matter how well you can see, and you'll stumble and hurt yourself and maybe even get mauled by an animal. When the sky is clear, though? The whole cosmos opens up before you and you comprehend truths which escaped you during the day but they feed into much larger mysteries you will then begin to ponder.

That is how I would describe my experience as a darkworker.

If a lightworker wants to use the day to describe their experience by all means, I'm not qualified to approach this topic from that angle. My point is that there are many aspects to light and dark and to make one savage and brutal and the other righteous is to completely miss the point and shroud yourself in a form of slumber even if you are awake.

[Ziondino]

Wow, when the thread is getting hotter, I seem don't need the darkworker/lightworker concept anymore.

I'll just DO IT

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Cado

Light and dark get split as positive and negative, which they are not analogous to.

Well they are, it's just our definitions of 'lightworking' and 'darkworing' that are not proportional to the positive/negative polarities.

However sometimes I like to believe otherwise. Darkworking entails a sense of love-for-self. Sometimes love-for-self means the destruction/control/manipulation of others, by whichever means in order to vastly express that Self love. Many times a darkworker will become negatively polarised in order to achieve their goals. The important distinguishing fact is that they are not limited or constrained to such a definition.

the matter of demons-demons and angels aren't true opposites. In fact "demon" is often just a label that's been applied to mythological and ethereal beings which didn't fit within the Christian canon. To work with demons, regardless of whether they're real or mere psychological constructs, is not the same thing as working with a negative entity

Who are you trying to convince? Yourself or others on the forum?
Have you ever brought up a being that was filled with so much hatred and fury that it would rather kill you or convert you, rather than let you exist in your current illusion of life?

Because I have..

The last time I 'lost' control the ****ing thing attacked me and I woke up 3 hours later on the floor in the pitch blackness of night, not knowing if I was dead or alive.

I see very little difference between your two abovementioned labels.