Perhaps Darkworking is for YOU

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Ziondino

Oh, I think it's just you.

I lie to my parents, manipulate my friends, etc. just for fun.
And I can proudly call myself a happy guy.

I don't worry about it, because we, Darkworkers, think before we rob.
Law NO.2:
The Second Law: Liberation

If what we do will only saddens the person IF they know what we're doing, then what we should do is just to keep it secret. Done.

I don't worry about lying, stealing, etc. just to get that girl I like, since, in order to do that, I MUST know the consequences first. If I steal and the cost is way too much than the benefit, I will drop it, and find another way around it.

Darkworking is about having fun in your life, whether by ****ing a dog, or by helping that grandma to cross the road, if you so choose.
But that's just me.

It's called Karma my friend. It's inescapable, and it's also flawless. What matters is the intention behind the acts, not the acts themselves.

You are right now of the understanding that the 'consequences' are limited to physical laws set by man. You are going to be in for one hell of a ride.

[Annie Zero]

Raise your hand if you think Ziodino is teenage. o/
I'll withhold any further comments for now.

But since that came up, I'm a Chaote too (but not just a Chaote).

I haven't really found the site (darkworkers com) too useful yet, though I'll give a few more articles a try. (I'm not saying it's useless, I've just read way too much stuff on the topic so nothing is really new.)

Originally Posted by Ziondino

"Do what thou wilt shall be the Whole of The Law"
I think Crowley have said it best.
If you want to give charity, give it. If you want to **** a dog, do it. That's pretty much like it.

[Thelema] is founded upon the idea that the 20th century marked the beginning of the Aeon of Horus, in which a new ethical code would be followed; "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". This statement indicated that adherents, who are known as Thelemites, should seek out and follow their own True Will rather than their ego's desires.

Thelema - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Ziondino

Oh, I think it's just you.

I lie to my parents, manipulate my friends, etc. just for fun.
And I can proudly call myself a happy guy.

You misunderstand-happiness, like many things, is an idealized version of a temporary state. Nobody is happy in the sense that nobody is happy all the time.

Annie hit it on the head when she switched to the word satisfaction instead. You can be satisfied with your life whether you're riding high or pounding your fist into the ground. You cannot, however, be happy in both of those situations.

The difference? Happiness is static, it's unchanging, it rises one moment and leaves the next. It's literally impossible to maintain it indefinitely and the only reason you'd chase it is fear, fear that if you don't you'll never experience it again. Satisfaction flows into many different states because it's not an emotion (though emotion can be part of it) and it can encompass your whole life beyond a single moment.

It's not an ideal so much as it is a sense of peace which pervades everything you do. This is the fruit of acceptance and it is one of the most powerful parts of polarization.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Midnite

It's called Karma my friend. It's inescapable, and it's also flawless. What matters is the intention behind the acts, not the acts themselves.

You are right now of the understanding that the 'consequences' are limited to physical laws set by man. You are going to be in for one hell of a ride.

I still don't see where there's any basis for that kind of karma unless you consider it one in the same with the law of attraction, in which case it is entirely possible to mitigate the impact of what would be considered a "harmful" intention.

The question is are you feeling resistance? Because if you are you will get hamstrung and you will bring the rage of hell upon yourself-but that can happen no matter what's driving you.

Take something like love-people have this idea that love can never hurt you, and if it does they blame resistance to love instead of the emotion or energy itself. If you get hurt by anger, anger is considered to be at fault when anger=/=resistance. It's still the resistance that's causing the problem and when it comes down to it we decide what to give ourselves regardless of whether our actions are for good or ill.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Cado

I still don't see where there's any basis for that kind of karma unless you consider it one in the same with the law of attraction, in which case it is entirely possible to mitigate the impact of what would be considered a "harmful" intention.

You don't see consequences in that direction because you're not looking in that direction. Midnite can see them because he's well acquainted with the types of entities who will latch onto you and feed off of these intentions, breathing back in their hatred. The "hell of a ride" he mentioned refers to the long slow fall of a once powerful human being who does not know from where his actions come from or what they serve.

It seems to me that the OP has been in symbiosis with a negative entity for some time now, that it's succeeded in co-opting this person's volition. Luckily for us, the human or demon isn't all that powerful, otherwise he wouldn't be bragging on the Internet about how bad he is. But he's more than powerful enough to sustain his host, and maintain an energetic surplus that feeds his lifestyle.

Eventually though, the lack of positive energy feeding back into his life will force him to hit bottom, probably through some form of substance abuse. He'll have to "shake off his demons" and return to positive orientation.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by VinceG

You don't see consequences in that direction because you're not looking in that direction. Midnite can see them because he's well acquainted with the types of entities who will latch onto you and feed off of these intentions, breathing back in their hatred. The "hell of a ride" he mentioned refers to the long slow fall of a once powerful human being who does not know from where his actions come from or what they serve.

That only applies if you don't know how to protect yourself and you dwell in an emotion. If anger rises and you use it or let it go it's not going to hurt you and nothing is going to be able to latch on. If you bottle it up, the emotion itself will start destroying you whether anything latches on or it doesn't-and anything can be twisted that way when the intention is blocked by some form of resistance.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Cado

That only applies if you don't know how to protect yourself and you dwell in an emotion. If anger rises and you use it or let it go it's not going to hurt you and nothing is going to be able to latch on. If you bottle it up, the emotion itself will start destroying you whether anything latches on or it doesn't-and anything can be twisted that way when the intention is blocked by some form of resistance.

These are the mental mechanics. What leads to this outcome is demonic influence. Normal people can flush out negative emotions from their system, eventually. If a normal person finds emotional resilience techniques, then that can render them immune to demonic influence.

At some point, the OP was just a kid without all of these philosophical notions to protect, without any kind of emotional ability. One day, he gets seriously peeved, maybe at his parents. At that point, a demon notices and gets involved, latching onto his host. What would normally happen is the kid's anger subsides, and he passes through his moment of weakness, unscathed. But instead, the demon feeds the anger, planting a seed of hatred. The kid thinks its all him, and over the next few months it slowly transforms him into someone who would think nothing of misleading and manipulating, a shadow of his former self. But that shadow feels powerful, the demon draws anger, which feels like power, up into him.

With this feeling of power, a person can start using others to feed the demon. He'll trick girls into giving him their sexual energy, and that energy won't be uplift and empower him, as it would most guys, it'll go straight to the demon host. He and it won't be satisfied, so they'll keep doing it. The demon knows what it's doing, the kid doesn't. The demon's gaining power and influence, when it finishes riding this host into the ground, like a horse, it'll find a more powerful one to latch onto and control.

[Cado]

The good thing about the early stages is that you don't have enough energy behind you to get into major trouble. You've got room to experiment, explore, and fail. Now later on it gets really nasty if you slip-on either road.

[Ziondino]

Originally Posted by VinceG

You don't see consequences in that direction because you're not looking in that direction. Midnite can see them because he's well acquainted with the types of entities who will latch onto you and feed off of these intentions, breathing back in their hatred. The "hell of a ride" he mentioned refers to the long slow fall of a once powerful human being who does not know from where his actions come from or what they serve.

It seems to me that the OP has been in symbiosis with a negative entity for some time now, that it's succeeded in co-opting this person's volition. Luckily for us, the human or demon isn't all that powerful, otherwise he wouldn't be bragging on the Internet about how bad he is. But he's more than powerful enough to sustain his host, and maintain an energetic surplus that feeds his lifestyle.

Eventually though, the lack of positive energy feeding back into his life will force him to hit bottom, probably through some form of substance abuse. He'll have to "shake off his demons" and return to positive orientation.

Wow!
Reading the other's post, I was saying to myself,
"Yeah, I kinda need to learn and live life more to understand those things..."

But, your reply was just...

Possessed by what!?
Come on, I'm balancing my life here.
I'm not entirely good, I'm not all that bad either.
(Though that's arbitrary, what constitute "good" or "bad" anyway? Face it, it's man made, dude)
I do what I feel good(helping others, teaching, etc.) but I don't ******** my desires either

Besides, what makes you think you know what I mean by lying to my parents, stealing(though I never have stolen before, consciously), etc.?
It could be the smallest thing like saying, "Mom, I'm going to Karen's house today" but I went to the game center instead(Note that I've never done such thing consciously either)

Oh yeah, I've NEVER **** a dog!
LoL

PS: No offense. Just straightening some freaky stuffs you threw at me there.

[Ziondino]

Originally Posted by VinceG

With this feeling of power, a person can start using others to feed the demon. He'll trick girls into giving him their sexual energy, and that energy won't be uplift and empower him, as it would most guys, it'll go straight to the demon host. He and it won't be satisfied, so they'll keep doing it. The demon knows what it's doing, the kid doesn't. The demon's gaining power and influence, when it finishes riding this host into the ground, like a horse, it'll find a more powerful one to latch onto and control.

I've never had sex, dude.

Okay, I don't know about you guys, but I've always been conscious all this time. I can always KNOW where the emotions, feelings, etc. originated from. This is not anger I'm feeling now, not even close.

To be honest, I always track my path in personal growth.
I knew that the reason I left my old religion was because I read certain books at certain times.
Whatever emotions I feel, I will always project the outcome in following it, or let it slide(or transform it).

I've Never, NEVER ever think of causing harm for the sake of satisfying my anger consciously.
Even when I DO follow my emotion to harm, I always do it for the sake of learning. I experiment with what I feel when I do or NOT doing certain things.

All these things I laid before was just my philosophical view(partly) that I took to the Extreme.
I think it's fine doing any of the so called "bad" things as long as you "earn some, or learn some"

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Ziondino

Besides, what makes you think you know what I mean by lying to my parents, stealing(though I never have stolen before, consciously), etc.?
It could be the smallest thing like saying, "Mom, I'm going to Karen's house today" but I went to the game center instead(Note that I've never done such thing consciously either)

Taking pleasure in the misleading and use of another human is a consciously evil act. Human beings cannot be evil. They can be led astray, but they cannot be truly evil. You look all throughout history at the worst people we've ever had, and all of them were misled, none were evil. You can always find the good intentions behind someone's actions. Midnite wasn't kidding when he said intentions matter more than actions.

The words you said, they weren't just the idle sayings of an ignorant kid. They were the sorts of words that belie deeper truth. You could well have a demonic entity pushing you towards the dark path, giving you a philosophical reason to look the other way while it co-opts your willpower to help feed itself.

If you want to truly know, you might have luck looking for its influence throughout your life. Think about when this started. You haven't always wanted to lie and cheat. What kicked this off? Why do you want to go down this path?

By thinking in this way, you're using mental tools to reinforce your free will. Go from a place of emotional stability, when you're not emotionally off. Any sudden emotion should point you to where in your psyche a demon's latching on to. You might find sudden emotions welling up when thinking about the event that triggered its influence.

It's not that I don't want you to be a darkworker. You might well go through this exercise and exorcise the demon and then decide that darkworking is still right for you. Wouldn't bother me at all. But I want you to make that decision consciously. I want it to be a positive influence on your life.

And so you're going to have to go over your decision here with a fine toothed comb. You can't just assume that all of your decisions are your own. Your actions here need to be scrutinized as well. You say you're lying unconsciously. Could be nothing, could be part of a larger pattern. You lied and said you consciously steal. That lie also seemed unconscious. Could be nothing, could be a demon subtly influencing your mind in preparation for actually causing you to start stealing.

Good luck, seriously.

[Cado]

I'll be honest and say that at first I found your posts toward the OP to be really funny, Vince. That's because it seemed really over the top, almost like it was a semi-satirical reaction to what he had put forth, but as it seems you're serious I get the impression that you're overreaching.

But then I understand we come at things from a fundamentally different perspective so that's probably where the difference in perception comes from. I think it just strikes me as an oddly Christian notion that demons would be responsible for pushing people to lie or cheat when really, people seem quite capable of choosing either entirely on their own.

And as for good and evil? The distinction has always come off as arbitrary. These are things invented by man-they're labels of a particular kind of behavior which, whether it exists apart from us or not, our labels will alter how we perceive them. There seems to be no indication there is any force within the universe which declares that there are rights and wrongs on a cosmic scale, everything just is and the rest is shaped by consciousness.

I don't know that there's any use delving deeper into it because, as I said, I know we're coming from fundamentally different perspectives and we've sparred on this before so it's easy to predict where it would go, I just find myself fascinated that such differing perceptions can emerge on things like this.

[Annie Zero]

I actually agree with Vince on the demon thing. If you're not much of a believer then you won't experience demons as entities with certain names and appearances, but their essences can still be there, affecting your feelings and thereby your thoughts (and thereby all of you). I've dealt with those bastards and I'm pretty sure I'm dealing with one right now. Of course I'll say that I'm responsible for all of my actions and I can't blame anything on a devil -- but it still helps to acknowledge that a demon is a demon if it helps one deal with it more effectively.

Originally Posted by Cado

It's literally impossible to maintain it indefinitely and the only reason you'd chase it is fear, fear that if you don't you'll never experience it again. Satisfaction flows into many different states because it's not an emotion (though emotion can be part of it) and it can encompass your whole life beyond a single moment.

This.

The thing with happiness is that one can use it to suppress other emotions, but to feel peace (no strong emotions) I have to acknowledge in all honesty that everything is fine the way it is. I'm not chasing happiness, I don't need it if I have peace.

[elucidate]

I was wondering myself. Since I recently had a demon removed from me and knowing myself I am considered by some people to be "too honest", to an annoying degree. I don't lie unless I really need to...so where was this demon influencing me? Sometimes a lie will slip out, but I put that down to old dysfunctional habits.

I don't cheat either...well, I did once...but about 17 years ago.If this demon was with me since I was a kid, you'd think I'd be a bit more devilish than I am...although, I will be honest and say that at times I have heard a voice in me prompting me to 'be evil'. We have free will though, demons can't make us do anything we don't agree to do.

Originally Posted by Cado

I'll be honest and say that at first I found your posts toward the OP to be really funny, Vince. That's because it seemed really over the top, almost like it was a semi-satirical reaction to what he had put forth, but as it seems you're serious I get the impression that you're overreaching.

But then I understand we come at things from a fundamentally different perspective so that's probably where the difference in perception comes from. I think it just strikes me as an oddly Christian notion that demons would be responsible for pushing people to lie or cheat when really, people seem quite capable of choosing either entirely on their own.

And as for good and evil? The distinction has always come off as arbitrary. These are things invented by man-they're labels of a particular kind of behavior which, whether it exists apart from us or not, our labels will alter how we perceive them. There seems to be no indication there is any force within the universe which declares that there are rights and wrongs on a cosmic scale, everything just is and the rest is shaped by consciousness.

I don't know that there's any use delving deeper into it because, as I said, I know we're coming from fundamentally different perspectives and we've sparred on this before so it's easy to predict where it would go, I just find myself fascinated that such differing perceptions can emerge on things like this.

[Annie Zero]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I was wondering myself. Since I recently had a demon removed from me and knowing myself I am considered by some people to be "too honest", to an annoying degree. I don't lie unless I really need to...so where was this demon influencing me? Sometimes a lie will slip out, but I put that down to old dysfunctional habits.

I don't cheat either...well, I did once...but about 17 years ago.If this demon was with me since I was a kid, you'd think I'd be a bit more devilish than I am...although, I will be honest and say that at times I have heard a voice in me prompting me to 'be evil'. We have free will though, demons can't make us do anything we don't agree to do.

Who said you had a demon to begin with? What changed after it was "removed"?
You assume a demon manifests as impulses to do "evil" things.

I don't even believe in free will, I believe we're affected by everything that happens to us.

You can compare this to drug addiction, surely people know that it's a bad thing, yet some get addicted anyway and can't always just utilize their "free will" to get out of it, some don't even see why they should try.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Annie Zero

Who said you had a demon to begin with? What changed after it was "removed"?
You assume a demon manifests as impulses to do "evil" things.

I don't even believe in free will, I believe we're affected by everything that happens to us.

You can compare this to drug addiction, surely people know that it's a bad thing, yet some get addicted anyway and can't always just utilize their "free will" to get out of it, some don't even see why they should try.

Well yeah, this is the thing. I won a free soul realignment session with a past regular from this forum. She connected with the Akashic records, and said there were several entities feeding off me, some from several lifetimes ago. As I have no real belief system around reincarnation, I kept an open mind, but didn't really believe her, so to speak.

I was aware of an entity in my energy field from the age of 20 onwards, but didn't know what to do about it.

It's wholly possible there was no demon to begin with, but given that no money passed hands either, I don't see why she would lie about it...though humans are strange like that?

So yeah... I don't really know if any of it was true, but I did feel much better after she had 'removed' it with the help of Source.

I know we are influenced by everything around us, and I think we still have a say as to what we choose to do though. I was responding to Vinces assumption that demons make us lie, cheat and steal.

My thinking is that we all have these aspects to us anyway...so there is a little bit of devil in everyone...no need for possession to take place.

[bluestar]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

I like this part though:

"I say, stop looking to others to complete you, help you, understand you, give you value, provide you with meaning…



Stop trying to justify why you want what you want, why you do what you do, and state the truth simply.



Its only when you have accepted truth, in all its beauty and ugliness, that you can truly act. Live in falseness, and your actions will always ring false.



I say, stop looking outside, where answers cannot be found, and look inside.



Ultimately, you were born alone, and will die alone.



There is no one who can understand you like you can understand yourself.



True Love is based on acceptance and understanding.



No one can love you like you can love yourself. No one truly can love you but yourself.



Free…your…mind….



You don’t have to justify anything, ever. Your will is what you are – who you are. The moment you were born, perfection was already yours. You are totally unique and filled with infinite power. Give wholeheartedly to yourself.



Don’t you deserve it?



After all, John Grey comes on “The Secret” and says, “Stop looking for someone else to give you more and give to yourself until you are full, and then overflow with that to give to others,”.



And we say the same thing and we’re evil? Go figure."

If you say the same thing, then what's a darkworker?

This is so true. All these things. I think so. Does that make ME a darkworker...?
Hmmmm......
Never thought of that before...Doubt it though because I'm a big soft soppy thing, do things for the dog even when I'm tired, give money to people, cry over movies or songs.....

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by elucidate

If this demon was with me since I was a kid, you'd think I'd be a bit more devilish than I am...although, I will be honest and say that at times I have heard a voice in me prompting me to 'be evil'. We have free will though, demons can't make us do anything we don't agree to do.

Demons vary in power levels. The tiny ones won't do much besides whisper in your ear hoping you'll listen. The more negative emotion you feed it, though, the more powerful it becomes. It may well get powerful enough to start making you hear other things, or plant thoughts in your head that you may choose to act on.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Demons vary in power levels. The tiny ones won't do much besides whisper in your ear hoping you'll listen. The more negative emotion you feed it, though, the more powerful it becomes. It may well get powerful enough to start making you hear other things, or plant thoughts in your head that you may choose to act on.

I've often wondered about this angle being an alternative way to view people suffering from schizophrenia.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Cado

I'll be honest and say that at first I found your posts toward the OP to be really funny, Vince. That's because it seemed really over the top, almost like it was a semi-satirical reaction to what he had put forth, but as it seems you're serious I get the impression that you're overreaching.

But then I understand we come at things from a fundamentally different perspective so that's probably where the difference in perception comes from. I think it just strikes me as an oddly Christian notion that demons would be responsible for pushing people to lie or cheat when really, people seem quite capable of choosing either entirely on their own.

People can lie and cheat on their own, certainly. But they never do such things for the pleasure of it. They always have a rationale, messed up as it may be, for why doing such things is good for others. The OP was giving off the impression that he was doing such things for nothing more than the pleasure of it. That's a demonic impulse. There's no way that can be human. Now he comes back and says he's not as bad as that. He didn't say we misunderstood him. His words seemed truly unconscious. Most people who aren't as aware of the power of words might just gloss over these facts. But highly spiritually aware people see these little inconsistencies.

And as for good and evil? The distinction has always come off as arbitrary. These are things invented by man-they're labels of a particular kind of behavior which, whether it exists apart from us or not, our labels will alter how we perceive them. There seems to be no indication there is any force within the universe which declares that there are rights and wrongs on a cosmic scale, everything just is and the rest is shaped by consciousness.

You don't see any indication of such an organizing force in the universe. But believe me, it's there. Angels and demons do exist. The vast majority of spiritual entities aren't angels or demons, and they have differing attitudes just like us humans do.

I don't know that there's any use delving deeper into it because, as I said, I know we're coming from fundamentally different perspectives and we've sparred on this before so it's easy to predict where it would go, I just find myself fascinated that such differing perceptions can emerge on things like this.

That's cool. Sometimes it's good to just lay our cards on the table, just so we all know where we're at. I don't expect to convince you, I just want you to know where I'm coming from. And I can certainly appreciate how strange it may sound. If you asked me a year ago whether I'd be seriously warning people against demonic influence, I probably would have laughed in your face.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I've often wondered about this angle being an alternative way to view people suffering from schizophrenia.

I'm fully convinced now that a whole host of mental and physical disorders have a demonic component. If you listen to some of the more extreme stories of meth addiction, you'll see clear signs of demonic influence. I think they're far, far more common than we give them credit for.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by VinceG

People can lie and cheat on their own, certainly. But they never do such things for the pleasure of it.

I know people who lie for the pleasure of it.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I know people who lie for the pleasure of it.

And are you totally sure they're not under demonic influence?

[taylor]

Even if it's not demonic, there is still a moral to this story.

It's not good energy. Not good juju.

If you play with explosives for long enough it's a statistical inevitability that you're going to blow your hand off. Explosives are powerful and can be used occasionally in a larger positive context with great positive effects. If you use them as a way of life however, you will destroy yourself.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by VinceG

And are you totally sure they're not under demonic influence?

No, I'm not sure of anything to do with this stuff. Psychopaths enjoy lying...maybe they are fully under the influence of top notch demons? Who knows?

[Cado]

Originally Posted by VinceG

People can lie and cheat on their own, certainly. But they never do such things for the pleasure of it. They always have a rationale, messed up as it may be, for why doing such things is good for others. The OP was giving off the impression that he was doing such things for nothing more than the pleasure of it. That's a demonic impulse. There's no way that can be human. Now he comes back and says he's not as bad as that. He didn't say we misunderstood him. His words seemed truly unconscious. Most people who aren't as aware of the power of words might just gloss over these facts. But highly spiritually aware people see these little inconsistencies.

Indeed, indeed. Our words reveal more than we think-it's why I tend to scoff at people who say something on a forum is "just text communication" when you imbue so much into what you say whether you meant to or not.

I don't know that I agree that people never do anything "wicked" just for pleasure, all on their own, but you're right that we always have a justification. As I've said plainly, I'm not gonna cheat or steal unless someone has already wronged me in some way, or I'm playing a game where that's the only way to win. I'm talking something big-scale, like a fight against a corporation. If I tie my hands, I give them that much more room to maneuver around me and it's clear that ideals alone will not bring the change I desire.

You actually hit on something later in this post-the one I quoted-about how entities have varying perspectives just like we do, which is something I wanted to bring up. That does a lot to muddle truth in these discussions, I think, so I pose the question-how does one know who they're talking to, or that (regardless of the feeling you get from them) they speak the truth?

I've felt the influence of things which were not "me", so to speak, but I've never benefited from framing it as an entity's influence. In fact moving in that direction gave my feelings of dread absolute power over me. As I take a utilitarian approach to truth, be it physical, spiritual, or intellectual, I question the validity of that line of thinking in most cases because what does it help? Personal experiences will vary, and there have been a few times I've actually benefited from framing certain internal conflicts as battles with demons, but I'm still wondering how we get to the truth on the matter, with a capital T.

It's so tricky because unlike with intellectual pursuits there aren't many tools for discussing this kind of thing in a structured way that easily facilitates the sharing of experiences-experiences which are often necessary to even see what's being discussed. So while on the one hand I don't want to write off what you've said but on the other I know I disagree at certain points but it's hard to articulate why.

It makes me think that, on the whole, we have only established basics and the whole universe is still figuring itself out and because consciousness decides the shape of creation "Truth" is just another ideal because it only applies to things which are transient and changing. I always tended to think of it the same way as peace, which is an underlying principle upon which everything else can be built and, when placed deep enough, cannot be shaken, but perhaps Peace/Acceptance really are the only constants-at least for now.

[supertom]

Originally Posted by elucidate

No, I'm not sure of anything to do with this stuff. Psychopaths enjoy lying...maybe they are fully under the influence of top notch demons? Who knows?

Just found this book actually dealing with how to become one complete with magick and energy stuff too

http://www.amazon.com/Psychopaths-Bi.../dp/1561841749

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by supertom

Just found this book actually dealing with how to become one complete with magick and energy stuff too

Amazon.com: The Psychopath's Bible: For the Extreme Individual (9781561841745): Christopher S. Hyatt, Dr. Jack Willis: Books

Well, now I really have heard everything.

I've actually seen that book in a store near where I live. I almost bought it just out of interest.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Cado

I don't know that I agree that people never do anything "wicked" just for pleasure, all on their own, but you're right that we always have a justification. As I've said plainly, I'm not gonna cheat or steal unless someone has already wronged me in some way, or I'm playing a game where that's the only way to win. I'm talking something big-scale, like a fight against a corporation. If I tie my hands, I give them that much more room to maneuver around me and it's clear that ideals alone will not bring the change I desire.

That's a very human way of looking at things. You have an ineffably human perspective. There's also a perspective you can take that comes from eternal, all-knowing divinity. From this perspective comes the view that everything that happens is perfect, it's always been this way, and it's all the way that's been intended. It encompasses the human perspective because it created the human perspective. Devout Christians often speak from this perspective. I take the divine perspective a lot, which is why you see a lot in me that you associate with Christianity.

A demonic perspective can also be taken. When you look at the differences between the human perspective, informed by the altruistic bent to our collective character given to us by DNA and evolution, and the divine, informed by all-powerful eternity, you'll see how utterly alien it is for a person to act from a demonic one. It takes powerful influence to counteract genetic altruism. Where's that influence going to come from? Has to be demons.

You actually hit on something later in this post-the one I quoted-about how entities have varying perspectives just like we do, which is something I wanted to bring up. That does a lot to muddle truth in these discussions, I think, so I pose the question-how does one know who they're talking to, or that (regardless of the feeling you get from them) they speak the truth?

There are varying methods, and they all come from using your Higher Self to guide you. A person's mind, unaided, cannot tell the difference between truth and falsehood. And I'm not just talking about the non-material here. Our minds are so ill-equipped to deal with objective truth that we had to invent science just so that we could be sure of anything. To figure out that smoking is bad for you, it took all kinds of crazy tests. However, with the aid of Higher Self, you can figure out that smoking is bad just by consulting it. By trusting the feelings it sends your way, by learning to recognize the dread, you can make your way through the world unscathed.

Luckily for us, it's not so easy to cut oneself off from their Higher Self and their guides. They will influence you whether you believe in them or not, whether you want them to or not.

I've felt the influence of things which were not "me", so to speak, but I've never benefited from framing it as an entity's influence. In fact moving in that direction gave my feelings of dread absolute power over me. As I take a utilitarian approach to truth, be it physical, spiritual, or intellectual, I question the validity of that line of thinking in most cases because what does it help? Personal experiences will vary, and there have been a few times I've actually benefited from framing certain internal conflicts as battles with demons, but I'm still wondering how we get to the truth on the matter, with a capital T.

These filters you speak of are all temporary, they're all just different ways of framing the same Truth. You're dealing with the same Truth as the Christians, the same Truth as Native American shamans, the same Truth as Buddhists seeking enlightenment. The words you use to frame the Truth aren't important, because the spiritual essence conveys itself anyway. Words confuse, words label. The real Truth cannot be contained by language. Again, this is a limitation of mind, which cannot process Truth in all its glory.

Knowing the Truth separate from perspective is very rare. You'd have to be enlightened just to get close to it. And, to be frank, from a strictly utilitarian perspective, you don't need it. I've used this metaphor several times already, but as a leaf floating on a river, the only way you can change your position willingly is to transform into a fish, killing the whole point.

It's so tricky because unlike with intellectual pursuits there aren't many tools for discussing this kind of thing in a structured way that easily facilitates the sharing of experiences-experiences which are often necessary to even see what's being discussed. So while on the one hand I don't want to write off what you've said but on the other I know I disagree at certain points but it's hard to articulate why.

Try harder to articulate. The objections are challenges to your identity. Articulating the objections lets you see your identity much more clearer. In my perspective, you're the recipient of the silent transmission I've spoken of elsewhere. The Truth is heavy, hard to process. It's great exercise though to try.

It makes me think that, on the whole, we have only established basics and the whole universe is still figuring itself out and because consciousness decides the shape of creation "Truth" is just another ideal because it only applies to things which are transient and changing. I always tended to think of it the same way as peace, which is an underlying principle upon which everything else can be built and, when placed deep enough, cannot be shaken, but perhaps Peace/Acceptance really are the only constants-at least for now.

Keep going with this. It will only get deeper, and the effort itself to grok the universe is illuminating.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by supertom

Just found this book actually dealing with how to become one complete with magick and energy stuff too

Amazon.com: The Psychopath's Bible: For the Extreme Individual (9781561841745): Christopher S. Hyatt, Dr. Jack Willis: Books

Psychopathy is different from demonic influence. Psychopathy is a very low, very animal human vibration. Psychopathy was how humans survived when there weren't sources of spiritual light to show people a different way. At one point in time, early in the evolution of the species, psychopathy was the normal way of doing things. You can see vestiges of it in great ape society. Psychopathy seeks to protect the self, and that's how you distinguish it from demonism. Demons seek to sustain themselves, and their resources are negative human emotions. Psychopaths are also out to sustain themselves, but they are capable of integrating usefully into human society, because human social DNA has made a place for them. Whereas a demon will actively try to subvert that same society to produce more delicious negative vibrations for it to consume.

A virus does not care if the host dies, so long as it can sustain itself and spread. A psychopath needs to sustain itself, so it's going to respond to human social correction and not kill the golden goose. A demon's just going to push you to destroy yourself.