Can a Darkworker be nice?

[jellybeanpimp]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, my brother was quite cruel to my cat and the dog as a child...and one friend of his was particularly vicious at school to other kids. I was mainly speaking of the trait of simply doing as they please though, not necessarily hurting anyone as such.

Yea, the things my niece tells me about are completely ridiculous for her age. I'm surprised at some of the stories because I expect her to tell me that they read mother goose all day long in class, not that some kid is beating up all the other kids! And it's mainly just a bunch of bad stuff by one repeat offender, it's not like they are all out of control. I'd say the "I do as I please" phase is over with once you get past baby/toddler stage. After then, you become more aware of what's wrong and what's right, things you do and things you just don't do. That kid knows inside, even in second grade, that he shouldn't be beating up other little kids.

[jellybeanpimp]

Originally Posted by Cado

I use the power I have and the power I gain to shape the world as I see fit. I am master of my reality-not me, the ego, but Me, the true Self which is uncovered in the darkness-and I choose to destroy the world that's based on lack and treachery. I choose honor because it's superior to chaos. I choose restraint because pure Darwinism is no better than living in the jungle. "My will be done" does not mean "Screw all of you", it only means that I'm 100% committed to my vision and completely uncompromising in that it will be carried out. If it's objectionable to you then there's conflict, if it's not then we're better off combining forces because whether we like it or not people are more effective in teams.

.

What exactly is your plan for darkworking? I mean what is your dream? What do you plan to accomplish by tapping into the dark side of the universe, by following the guidance of lower entitites and embracing your lower self? Is there anything specific?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by jellybeanpimp

Yea, the things my niece tells me about are completely ridiculous for her age. I'm surprised at some of the stories because I expect her to tell me that they read mother goose all day long in class, not that some kid is beating up all the other kids! And it's mainly just a bunch of bad stuff by one repeat offender, it's not like they are all out of control. I'd say the "I do as I please" phase is over with once you get past baby/toddler stage. After then, you become more aware of what's wrong and what's right, things you do and things you just don't do. That kid knows inside, even in second grade, that he shouldn't be beating up other little kids.

I would say if you scratch the surface though, he is probably being beaten up by either a brother or a parent for him to be behaving this way, in which case, it may not be appropriate to be labelling him a 'darkworker', just a bully who is being bullied himself. It's not always the case though, and there is a disturbing rise in aggressive kids at school these days. One guy I knew a while ago believed that people are just getting meaner as a species. I seem to know a fair few who aren't mean though, or at least they don't let that side of them show.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by jellybeanpimp

Where is gravity? Where is the committee? Universal laws are universal laws. Just because you don't see someone experience the consequences of their actions, doesn't mean that they don't end up ultimately experiencing them. Actually, I'd be more inclined to say that most of the times, you can see the negative consequences of negative actions. It seems to be the minority of them that somehow dodge the karmic radar, and even then, there are plenty of future lifetimes that will allow you to experience any negativity you put out into this lifetime. Even if your intent is positive or neutral, you can still be held liable for actions that come about from something you don't do that you should have, and in this instance, you are not taking into account the greater impact of your actions. Just like a mother who leaves her kid in the car and then the kid dies. She should have known better, even though she didn't actually kill the kid. As a sane, able, and competent adult, you should be integrating the net effect on humanity into your actions, at least on some level. Not doing this, in and of itself, is very negative.

I tend to agree with this. Often we think that a person 'should' receive the punishment we see as being fit for them, and are disappointed or enraged when it doesn't come in the form we think it should. How do we know that the head of Monsanto isn't due to receive some important lesson that is private to him and him alone? We don't.

After feeling pretty pissed off for years at how 'bad' people seemingly get away with murder, whilst 'good' people tend to get shat on for being good, I came to intuit that there is some sort of "divine retribution" that works for these people...so, when a person gets away with raping or murdering a bunch of people over the years, and then finds himself a quadraplegic one day, or his sister gets brutally raped and killed, and he gets to see first hand how his actions affect people, then a lesson is learnt. It may not be satisfying to the mob who want his head, but it is his lesson to learn in whichever way is deemed appropriate. We tend to want instant justice for people who do bad things, but I think the reality is it's a much slower process and usually no one else will know about it when it happens except that person.

I don't believe that even those people who do terrible things and manage to push it all down in their minds or justify it their whole lives, don't spend the last few moments of their lives not feeling every single bit of pain they inflicted on others. Suppressed feelings and thoughts will arise at some point, unless you are a sociopath, in which case, you just die.

I used to think it was up to me to deliver lessons to people who hurt me or ****ed me around, and then it was like I discovered Gandalf the Grey in me, and it said "It is not for you to judge who deserves what lesson or to deliver that lesson to them. Their lesson will come to them in due time". And that was before I'd even seen the LOTR trilogy.

No ****.

You may say to yourself, " that's just her wishful thinking", and maybe you're right, but this was one of those really tangible "knowings" that come from within, the kind that doesn't need to be questioned. Intuition can be wrong at times, but I know that learning to trust it is important.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Somnium Dico

Don't forget the most influential figure to all of us darkworkers, the true mastermind of the Left-Hand Path:

‪Snidely Whiplash: Bondage Practitioner‬‏ - YouTube

Oh, that dastardly do-badder! All darkworkers, if they're REAL darkworkers, should be aspiring to be Just Like Him. He hurts people - and that's what darkworking is all about, after all.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

Oh, that dastardly do-badder! All darkworkers, if they're REAL darkworkers, should be aspiring to be Just Like Him. He hurts people - and that's what darkworking is all about, after all.

I've never seen you be sarcastic PWL. You wear it well.

[The Second Devil]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

Is there such a thing as a Lightworker who helps others but only to help him/herself?

That would mean they are a Darkworker, right?

Can a darkworker choose to help others just for selfish gain and still be a darkworker?

Also, just because you're a darkworker does that mean you WILL use manipulation and fear-based strategies with others most of the time?

People get really tied up in trying to define things. They forget, in my belief, that the core of all reality is nestled in the most abstract and undefinable of things. It is my advice that you should learn to read others using your intuition or feelings no matter what words or ideas they would offer to steer your mind for you. Words, ideas, logic- devices of this nature are of the dense worlds and the lower realms.

"You will never hear an angel come to you and define itself as such. But the devils will always tell you how sweet they are."

[Dreamweave]

yes but they're probably doing it because they want something in return.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

Is there such a thing as a Lightworker who helps others but only to help him/herself?

No. Except in the sense of us all being one being. That expanded self is one we all serve, whether we want to or not.

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

That would mean they are a Darkworker, right?

Yes.

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

Can a darkworker choose to help others just for selfish gain and still be a darkworker?

Yes. Happens all the time. In fact, the only time someone who is truly negatively polarized ever helps another is because they perceive some benefit to themselves from doing so.

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

Also, just because you're a darkworker does that mean you WILL use manipulation and fear-based strategies with others most of the time?

Yes. It is in their nature to manipulate.

My understanding is that negative polarization is increased through control of other selves -- these other selves being seen as inferior beings in need of their "superior" wisdom. So there is always this underlying need to gain more power over them. Elitism is always negatively polarized.

Positive polarity is increased through acceptance of other selves as equals, and the desire to enhance the free will of others. No elitism here.

It is easy for these concepts to turn into philosophical dispositions, but for the more serious students, there is a very real occult or metaphysical power in these concepts that can be perceived energetically if you are sensitive enough.

It's almost like electricity in consciousness. We have a positive and negative pole. The more you build the charge on either of these, the more the potential difference and the greater the ability to do work in consciousness.

[Andras]

...technically speaking, as soon as you help others you are a "light-worker". (even if that is for money). A true "dark-worker" would run a cult and pretend to help others by enslaving them. Of course all this is pseudo intellectual, western style bull crap, but sadly cults happen and many people fall for them.

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

Is there such a thing as a Lightworker who helps others but only to help him/herself?

That would mean they are a Darkworker, right?

Can a darkworker choose to help others just for selfish gain and still be a darkworker?

Also, just because you're a darkworker does that mean you WILL use manipulation and fear-based strategies with others most of the time?

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

My understanding is that negative polarization is increased through control of other selves -- these other selves being seen as inferior beings in need of their "superior" wisdom. So there is always this underlying need to gain more power over them. Elitism is always negatively polarized.

...

It is easy for these concepts to turn into philosophical dispositions, but for the more serious students, there is a very real occult or metaphysical power in these concepts that can be perceived energetically if you are sensitive enough.

I agree on the latter, but the former simply isn't true-not in all cases. To command does not mean all others are inferior, it simply means I am the one for this job, whatever "this job" means in a given context.

To seek excellence doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't reach those heights is a lesser being, it simply means that one of us is lesser or greater in those terms. Mutual respect is a strong foundation and enables you to build things that last. Derision will inevitably spark rebellion be it through an exposed weakness or the application of too much pressure.

Regardless of which way you polarize, you can't ignore the greater good without getting *****-slapped. That's cause and effect at work. For the darkworker, it's just not the primary motive.

These discussions get messy precisely because too much emphasis is placed on intellectualizing things that have to be felt to be understood. However, I've made the observation that a lot of people use their intellects to avoid sensing things which don't coincide with their preconceptions. There's so much to darkworking beyond the cruel psychopathy which manifests in some, and both polarities are part of the larger ecosystem. These are not inherently antagonistic forces, one simply tends to overestimate itself and strive for the elimination of the other, thus rejecting part of nature and part of oneself. That's no good-balance will never be achieved that way, and it saddens me when someone says that and it gets written off because "oh, s/he's a darkworker, he's obviously trying to deceive us."

That's not how it works. At all. And as I've said before, when you see only part of the picture you're in a poor position to respond to the challenges placed before you. That, too, applies to all of us-darkworkers and lightworkers alike.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by jellybeanpimp

What exactly is your plan for darkworking? I mean what is your dream? What do you plan to accomplish by tapping into the dark side of the universe, by following the guidance of lower entitites and embracing your lower self? Is there anything specific?

Guidance? I don't go to lower-entities for guidance, nor am I focused on the so-called lower self. My aim is to embrace and embody the whole Self and that includes things like anger and hatred from time to time. I've heard my Self-a much bigger and much wiser me-speak in the shadows and that is what I reach for and what I hold above all else, and because it is me I say I bend to no one yet my path requires the sacrifice of self to Self.

I'm drawn in this direction because my purpose is, in large part, to establish balance. I'll quote something I wrote for a story which came from the deeper parts of me:

I have come here for myself but by my actions I've become the voice of the voiceless and before I'm through the screams you've silenced will echo from your throats. You call yourselves gods but I, a mortal, have ascended beyond you and in mankind's eleventh hour I bring judgement.

I began down this road for two reasons: I wanted to know myself and I wanted to destroy everything which caused me to lose control. Self-mastery, in other words. Now it's time to jump into the fire and be made indestructible.

Why? To expose frauds for who they are. To introduce disharmony where there's total agreement so as to encourage thought where dogma would take hold. To write things which move people at their very core, fiction and non. To take the reins when idiots would crash us into a brick wall.

To put it simply I focus on power because there are challenges-both personal and global-which cannot be overcome solely by those who love. They are necessary, they possess a strength all their own, but without people on the other side standing with them they'll get slaughtered. Idealism changes nothing. Idealism tempered with pragmatism and backed with the will and means to do whatever is necessary, that's unstoppable.

I can't believe I'm saying this considering the group's origins, but Anonymous represents that better than anything else I can think of. Both light and dark are at play within their ranks and I'm very curious what they'll accomplish.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Cado

I agree on the latter, but the former simply isn't true-not in all cases. To command does not mean all others are inferior, it simply means I am the one for this job, whatever "this job" means in a given context.

To seek excellence doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't reach those heights is a lesser being, it simply means that one of us is lesser or greater in those terms. Mutual respect is a strong foundation and enables you to build things that last. Derision will inevitably spark rebellion be it through an exposed weakness or the application of too much pressure.

Regardless of which way you polarize, you can't ignore the greater good without getting *****-slapped. That's cause and effect at work. For the darkworker, it's just not the primary motive.

These discussions get messy precisely because too much emphasis is placed on intellectualizing things that have to be felt to be understood. However, I've made the observation that a lot of people use their intellects to avoid sensing things which don't coincide with their preconceptions. There's so much to darkworking beyond the cruel psychopathy which manifests in some, and both polarities are part of the larger ecosystem. These are not inherently antagonistic forces, one simply tends to overestimate itself and strive for the elimination of the other, thus rejecting part of nature and part of oneself. That's no good-balance will never be achieved that way, and it saddens me when someone says that and it gets written off because "oh, s/he's a darkworker, he's obviously trying to deceive us."

That's not how it works. At all. And as I've said before, when you see only part of the picture you're in a poor position to respond to the challenges placed before you. That, too, applies to all of us-darkworkers and lightworkers alike.

I didn't intend to imply that all dark workers function like psychopaths. That would just be silly, and extremely counterproductive to their goals in the long run.

Also, I never said all darkworkers see everybody else as inferior. However, I could have been more clear. By inferior, I essentially meant what I bolded in your post above. Certainly a dark-worker can see the potential in other beings for negative polarization. But of course, they are undeveloped neophytes in the eyes of the highly negatively polarized entity.

A dark-worker sees disorder, and they seek to bring order to what they perceive as chaos. So they seek to control what they can control. They are seeking maximal power over others. Obviously, sometimes there are factors they cannot control. There are plenty of situations where one dark-worker is interacting with another who is more polarized than they, and it is clear to both of them which has more influence (who is the "master").

And as to the greater good: that is true within certain limits, but who is qualified to know what the "greater good" really is? The greater good as seen from positive polarity is different than it is for negative polarity in many cases, I assure you. All negative polarity every really considers is itself. Occasionally, their self interest also happens to involve the positive welfare of others, because they need them for some reason or another, but it has nothing to do with them caring one way or the other about the others which happened to be benefited. If it didn't benefit the negatives, in some significant way, it wouldn't be part of their concept of the "greater good". Period.

I still maintain that control is the key to negative polarization, and acceptance is the key to positive polarization. It is also my opinion there are many people that believe they are polarizing negatively, who are really doing the exact opposite, or just plain not polarizing at all. I don't often talk about polarity because everybody is just going to have their own ideas anyway, which is fine, but sometimes its interesting to talk about and see other points of view.

If one's actions aren't raising their consciousness, they aren't really polarizing.

[Cado]

Just chiming in real quick to say that I'm bowing out-I'm gonna be away from the forums a bit and this topic will likely die off, and if it doesn't I'm probably gonna end up repeating myself so it's not worth my time to stick around. If anybody has anything they need to address to me drop a PM and I will reply whenever I'm back in town, so to speak.

[NSS]

Originally Posted by Cado

And why does everyone think that a painting of oneself precludes all others?

"I am a world before I am a man." I cannot exist without those around me. There's no avoiding this fundamental truth. Your personal sovereignty is not a threat to me, in fact it can be an asset. I don't really care if I'm above anyone, I only care that I'm not underneath someone else's heel. I'd rather command by respect than by brute intimidation.

I use the power I have and the power I gain to shape the world as I see fit. I am master of my reality-not me, the ego, but Me, the true Self which is uncovered in the darkness-and I choose to destroy the world that's based on lack and treachery. I choose honor because it's superior to chaos. I choose restraint because pure Darwinism is no better than living in the jungle. "My will be done" does not mean "Screw all of you", it only means that I'm 100% committed to my vision and completely uncompromising in that it will be carried out. If it's objectionable to you then there's conflict, if it's not then we're better off combining forces because whether we like it or not people are more effective in teams.

I'm slow to say what, exactly, it is to walk the lightworker's path because I don't really understand it. I can't without practicing it personally. Frankly it's damned offensive when somebody says darkworking is this or darkworking is that when they have no idea what they're talking about. You never see more than half the picture from the outside.

Yes, there are sociopaths who are darkworkers, but that's not the Left-Hand Path. It's similar to how some lightworkers are Christians but lightworking is not Christianity. That is one method of polarizing and working your way up. There are many, many ways to go down, and that means many, many things.

Some darkworkers deserve all the ire they stir in others and should be destroyed by the very anger they draw toward themselves. The rest? They are working toward empowerment and knowledge by focusing on their individuality and expressing their innate divinity within the world. We are gods (or we are becoming gods, depending on who you ask) and that means only that we have the courage to stand apart and follow our Will to the end. It demands nothing else; it's our choice how we use our power.

This is a really good post.

To educate yourselves more on "darkworkers", I recommend these two books.

Lords of the Left Hand Path

Essential Guide to the Left Hand Path

[Annie Zero]

Can a Darkworker be nice?

No, it goes against that contract they made with the Devil.

[TheJourney]

I also don't like the term darkworker. For me, there is no heirarchy between self and other. I try to do what's best overall, whether it's best for me or others. I really see no difference between myself and others, so I don't see how I could classify myself either way. If it seems that I can do something that will be of huge benefit to me, and a little drawback for others, I'll probably do that. If I can do something that will be of huge benefit for others, and a little drawback for me, I'll probably do that. I don't think calling myself selfless(in the sense of forgetting about myself in favor of others) or self-indulgent would be accurate. I really don't fit into any label.

It's just more duality where there doesn't need to be any, imo.

[Vaganova]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Has anyone ever met a darkworker? I've certainly seen people who were interested in the darker sides of human nature, people who've identified that way, but nobody who's actually taken the stance of "everybody here just exists solely to be used by me for my own gain," and really did things that way.

I am a Darkworker. Coming to this forum and having a word for it is AWESOME! (thank you!!)

Here's what happens when I try to do Lightworker stuff: "I'm supposed to help you. Help you? Um. What do you need help with? I'm lost. What am I supposed to... huh? What do you need help with...? Say what? Okay, never mind, bye! Yeah that sucked..."

Here's what happens when I have the clarity of Darkworker mode: "I want to accomplish X task. To accomplish X task, I need to XYZ. In doing XYZ, things may or may not happen that someone may or may not be pissed about. XYZ accomplished. Task done."

Some of us are Darkworkers by default. I literally *can't* 'lightwork'.

Darkworking isn't 'evil', it's just an anchor of motivation. A really really good lightworker can cause disasters trying to help others, a really really good darkworker can save millions of lives.

The lightworker looks outside himself. The darkworker looks inside. That's the only difference.

[JSB]

I second this. "Darkworker" seems to be a meaningless, poorly defined term that people like to use as a counterpart to "lightworker" (another poorly defined, unnecessary word).

I don't think "darkworkers" or "lightworkers" even exist: people may focus more in their day to day lives on "enlightened self-interest with a side of hedonism", or on "altruism and connection with others", but pigeonholing them into arbitrary categories is meaningless, though some people may enjoy the idea of defining themselves as a certain "type". Just remember: today's hedonist could be tomorrow's altruist, and vice versa.

Originally Posted by VinceG

Until someone can explain to me how dark working differs from enlightened self-interest with a side of hedonism, I'm going to go on believing it doesn't exist.

[LassieLove]

I guess one can be a darkworker without harming others in any way. If one figures that it's more effective for their own well-being to be truly nice and friendly towards others, why wouldn't that person still be a darkworker if all they're really concerned about and devoted to is their personal well-being?

I could imagine Steve Jobs, for example, as a darkworker who has figured that it's better for himself to be an inspirator to other people and not be an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. (Of course, he could be a lightworker, as well!)

I think that choosing the darker side is a very understandable and comfortable choice. When I first started meditating and felt that immense peace within myself, I started feeling contemptuous towards people who couldn't have the same feelings as I. I started thinking that I don't care about how other people feel as long as *I* can meditate, pursue my own dreams and be in an enlightened, happy state. "This is my journey, other people have theirs, I'll just enjoy mine and not care about the others!"

I haven't chosen between light and dark yet (though I want to choose light) but what I want to say is that I can understand people who choose darkness.

Also, I think it's sometimes necessary to act like a darkworker (without being a darkworker). For example, if you are very depressed, then you need to start loving yourself first before you can share your love with others. When recovering from diseases like depression, people may act like "nice darkworkers", primarily concerned about their own well-being at the time, but it doesn't mean that they have actually chosen to be devoted to the dark path. It may be just a phase, a very important phase of growth indeed.

[lifeforce]

Fine.

Take Anna Kournikova. Famous tennis pro. Is she focusing on the greater good?

Not very likely. She is obsessed with her objectives and her own "betterment" for lack of a better term. Self-interest is the driver.

Is she a nice person? Is she evil?

The flaw in the argument about darkworkers, is that people think it has to do with personality traits and behavior. When in reality, it has to do with area of focus.

When a self proclaimed light worker lashes out about the evils of meat industry, guess what - he´s tapping in to anger. The very emotion supposedly only darkworkers and unpolarized people use. Witch then leads to sitting on a high horse, in other words pride/arrogance. What happened to compassion, unconditional love and acceptance?

The whole concept is flawed.

[irfan]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Hitler worked for greater Germany.

That's very debatable. Albert Speer, Hitler's architect and later the minister for armaments, talks about his incredible disillusionment with Hitler when in the later stages of the war, Hitler commanded steps to cripple and destroy the German economy: Hitler knew that everything he personally stood for was going to destroyed, and he cared not the slightest bit for the impact of these measures on the German people. The gap between the Wermacht group who opposed Hitler and the loyalist partly revolved around that very issue.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by JSB

I second this. "Darkworker" seems to be a meaningless, poorly defined term that people like to use as a counterpart to "lightworker" (another poorly defined, unnecessary word).

Kept solely in the bounds of the new age movement and what Steve has described, you're right. When it's expanded to encompass the right-hand and left-hand paths they gain a lot more substance-and there's a good argument to be made that they're modern permutations of those paths, albeit in the case of lightworking one that has lost most of its substance.

The new age movement de-fangs nearly everything it touches. People wonder why I call it dangerous-it's because non-threatening spirituality hinders progress. In focusing so intensely on love n' light many people forget to actually grow. Total non-judgement, rejection of duality, denial of the shadow, all of those things contribute to making someone impotent and lightworkers can do far better than that.

Thus I think a counterpoint is absolutely essential. One does not grow without the other.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Cado

The new age movement de-fangs nearly everything it touches. People wonder why I call it dangerous-it's because non-threatening spirituality hinders progress. In focusing so intensely on love n' light many people forget to actually grow. Total non-judgement, rejection of duality, denial of the shadow, all of those things contribute to making someone impotent and lightworkers can do far better than that.

Absolutely. You can't grow into whole human beings whilst denying the shadow and pretending everything has to be all shiny happy la la la all the time. We are not all sweetness and light...and deep down everyone knows it. There's a nastiness that people reject but by allowing ourselves to feel it and see what lies beyond that, growth is then possible. Judgement is a part of being human and if we didn't then we would accept things that really are unacceptable.