Would you intervene?

[Midwinter Mist]

You’re sat in a garden, when a cat attacks a bird. Would you intervene and help the bird or leave nature be? Would it make any difference if you had, for example, thrown food out for the bird, or if the bird was another animal, such as a mouse?

I was sitting in my garden recently where cats pass often and birds sometimes come down for food. I wondered for a moment whether or not I’d intervene if it happened before my eyes, but I couldn’t think of a complete answer, though I mostly swayed to helping the bird.

Are you somebody who would want to step in and alter situations like this is in any case, environment, etc., or would you perhaps leave it to be?

[ChrisGinsburg]

I would intervene if it was my cat or a cat I knew was getting fed. Otherwise, I would let it happen as a stray cat probably wouldn't trust me enough to feed it.

[ssandra]

I would step in. Cats are not very nice creatures when it comes to their food, they usually play with it.

And since my cat has her food it is not needed for her to kill the bird so I would save it.

Also... cats are bound to bring presents to their room mates / servants () and having a dead bird in my house is not something I'm looking forward to.

Even worse (which actually happened to my brother and his cat) if the bird is still half alive but has their insides falling out and your cat thinks this is a pleasant waking up surprise and dumps it on your chest while you are sleeping....

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I would step in. Cats are not very nice creatures when it comes to their food, they usually play with it.

And since my cat has her food it is not needed for her to kill the bird so I would save it.

Also... cats are bound to bring presents to their room mates / servants () and having a dead bird in my house is not something I'm looking forward to.

Even worse (which actually happened to my brother and his cat) if the bird is still half alive but has their insides falling out and your cat thinks this is a pleasant waking up surprise and dumps it on your chest while you are sleeping....

My cat many years ago did that with the neighbors gerbil right on top of me in my bed.

[Ilikeindowem]

I would leave it be. It's not my place to intervene.

[taylor]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

I would intervene if it was my cat or a cat I knew was getting fed.

[ZephyrusX]

I would intervene. Mostly because I don't like watching animals suffer (and cats tend to 'play' with their prey). If the animal in question relied on hunting as a means of living, I wouldn't intervene. As it is though, my little fur bag eats cat treats from a silver platter...

[Acolyte]

It has been noted that animals who are in close contact with humans exhibit similar neurotic behavior. Have you ever seen animal documentaries where hunter like lion playing with their pray? They slit the throat straightaway to end its suffering.

Make the conclusion.

[cacheborn]

I agree with the opinion that if the cat is not hungry and it's a pet, then I would save the bird. I have faced similar problem in a different situation.

What do you do when you see an insect caught in a spider's web? If you save the insect, the spider will go hungry. At the same time, the insect is undergoing a slow, painful death, maybe by starving for days. I don't intervene, but it does not leave me satisfied.

[180]

This is long been touted the "Discovery" question.

Photographers and film producers involved in nature programs often witness very brutal and limb crunching animal killing.

So the question arises, would you stop it?

Personally, never. Nature is nature and interference isn't necessary or helpful/unhelpful. We all die ultimately and preventing the death of an animal doesn't postpone the inevitable.

I don't weep over dinosaurs. It's not like I crawl into bed crying about, those poor dinosaurs, how cruel of the meteor... I didn't stop it. Why stop there? Should I stop my dog from eating chicken? But then I should stop humans too. Why not go to my local KFC and smack the chicken right out of everyone's hand?

However this does raise some questions about saving animals that are endangered. Frankly I'm not against killing most animals unless it causes huge disruptions in the life cycle. Nobody misses the dodo bird. But if a species such as bacteria goes extinct we'd have huge problems in the ecosystem. I would be deathly concerned, because it would almost likely ensure premature death of almost everything on the planet. In that case, yeah I'd interfere.

But if you ask me I'm going to save a bird from a cat? Hmm no, I'll drink my tea and enjoy it.

[Midwinter Mist]

I had suggested that I'd probably help the bird, but my tolerance shifts depending on the creature. I rarely show any care to insects. I've dumped caterpillars in red-ant nests, sealed off a space to make random insects fight (I've even watched as a spider has been thrown into another spider's web, and talk about chaotic battles), thrown ants in spider webs just to watch with intrigue, but it's funny that I'd even think of feeding a spider when I'd much rather crush all of them (I can't stand those eight-legged monsters, assuring myself that they'd become the most destructive of all creatures if they were much larger). Most of that, however, was when I was a child.

I'll be honest that I have felt some remorse over it, but I think it's more a fear that it's going to backfire, like I'm going to be eaten by spiders in some form of hell or I'll be reincarnated as the spider's next dinner. If I could be sure that I wouldn't pay for it, I probably wouldn't care as much, but when it comes to larger animals, then I think about it a bit more. Having said that, I wouldn't interfere with situations in the far out wild, not only because I don't feel the need to, but who expects me to tackle a lion?

[Ilikeindowem]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

It has been noted that animals who are in close contact with humans exhibit similar neurotic behavior. Have you ever seen animal documentaries where hunter like lion playing with their pray? They slit the throat straightaway to end its suffering.

Make the conclusion.

Why does the life of the bird matter? Cats often kill small animals for no apparent reason (when they are not hungry at the least). Should humans interfere in the actions of other species?

Besides, if one examines our own history, we hardly are a benevolent bunch. Cats don't enslave each other, commit genocides one another, etc.

[taylor]

I will spend a good 45 minutes trying to get an insect into a cup and outside. I don't want anything to suffer when I can come along and help out easily. I'll flip the little bug over when I see it's upside down. I know it's nature but I'm a part of nature too.

[NewSimon]

I would shoo the cat away just to make myself feel better.

[Midwinter Mist]

Of course, one takes these thoughts to a whole new level when they consider the day a cat intervenes to protect a bird from a human.

...and then, like a team, they shall become one!

[180]

PS. I killed a snake yesterday. Red blood, and I could actually hear the bones cracking when I was trying to chop it up to pieces (by request from my parents). Felt bad man. I actually did have empathy because it was a garden snake and there was no reason to kill it besides the irrational fear of my parents.

[ZephyrusX]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

It has been noted that animals who are in close contact with humans exhibit similar neurotic behavior. Have you ever seen animal documentaries where hunter like lion playing with their pray? They slit the throat straightaway to end its suffering.

Make the conclusion.

I like to play with my prey? Come here Acolyte *sing-song voice* What would give you this idea?

[ZephyrusX]

That is an interesting comparison between insects and 'larger animals'. I'm not sure if insects are capable of feeling pain. For the record, I try to save the insects. It really doesn't take that long to intervene. But this has more to do with my 'empathy' and what I imagine to be 'suffering'. It has more to do with my humanistic qualitites than the actual insects.

Originally Posted by Midwinter Mist

I had suggested that I'd probably help the bird, but my tolerance shifts depending on the creature. I rarely show any care to insects. I've dumped caterpillars in red-ant nests, sealed off a space to make random insects fight (I've even watched as a spider has been thrown into another spider's web, and talk about chaotic battles), thrown ants in spider webs just to watch with intrigue, but it's funny that I'd even think of feeding a spider when I'd much rather crush all of them (I can't stand those eight-legged monsters, assuring myself that they'd become the most destructive of all creatures if they were much larger). Most of that, however, was when I was a child.

I'll be honest that I have felt some remorse over it, but I think it's more a fear that it's going to backfire, like I'm going to be eaten by spiders in some form of hell or I'll be reincarnated as the spider's next dinner. If I could be sure that I wouldn't pay for it, I probably wouldn't care as much, but when it comes to larger animals, then I think about it a bit more. Having said that, I wouldn't interfere with situations in the far out wild, not only because I don't feel the need to, but who expects me to tackle a lion?

[taylor]

Insects feel pain. They have little nervous systems that interpret pain much like other moving entities do. I don't think plants feel pain because they have no use for it since they can't move anyway. But for bugs, if something hurts, that motivates them to run away or fight.

[veloci]

Originally Posted by taylor

I will spend a good 45 minutes trying to get an insect into a cup and outside. I don't want anything to suffer when I can come along and help out easily. I'll flip the little bug over when I see it's upside down. I know it's nature but I'm a part of nature too.

I think I fell in love. lolol

I would do this exact same thing as well. I have a bug phobia though, but still... I don't know about larger animals though. Like lions hunting a zebra. I would let nature take its course there.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

It has been noted that animals who are in close contact with humans exhibit similar neurotic behavior. Have you ever seen animal documentaries where hunter like lion playing with their pray? They slit the throat straightaway to end its suffering.

Make the conclusion.

Actually, yes, I have. I've seen lions, not playing with their pray exactly, but eating it while it was still alive. And I've seen young lions who are just learning to hunt play with their prey.

And I think that is what our house cats are doing. Learning to hunt, because they don't have to do that for a living so whenever they do get that chance they do play.

Originally Posted by 180

PS. I killed a snake yesterday. Red blood, and I could actually hear the bones cracking when I was trying to chop it up to pieces (by request from my parents). Felt bad man. I actually did have empathy because it was a garden snake and there was no reason to kill it besides the irrational fear of my parents.

Poor snake.

When I lived in Cancun I rescued a snake from the care taker once. He was hitting it with a iron pipe and I told him to stop it, picked it up with a long stick and threw it back into the jungle.

I didn't care if it was a poison snake or not.... you don't just kill such a wonderful animal because it got lost....

[Acolyte]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I like to play with my prey? Come here Acolyte *sing-song voice* What would give you this idea?

What I wanted to convey is that it's people' irrationality, irresponsibility and mind-emptiness that leads to suffering. From the words of E. Tolle: "Have you come across the distressed dolphin, a cat that cannot relax, or a bird that carries hate or self resentment?"

If your cat was hunting and caught the bird, you project YOUR opinions and values onto it. Why would you have to intervene? Simply because you fed the cat and believe that it's inhumane (or rather in-animali) thing that it's doing to the bird?

[Andrew Brunelle]

I mean, this is the natural order of things. Cats kill other animals. They are carnivores. Birds can fly, so they should have an advantage when it comes to getting away. I say survival of the fittest. If the bird can get away, great. If the cat attacks and eats the bird, fine. It's not my place to intervene.

[Cado]

Unless I have a particular fondness for the bird in question I wouldn't do anything.

[cacheborn]

I know it's natural and in order of things. That's not what bothers me. What I find difficult is to see another creature suffer in agony.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

I mean, this is the natural order of things. Cats kill other animals. They are carnivores. Birds can fly, so they should have an advantage when it comes to getting away. I say survival of the fittest. If the bird can get away, great. If the cat attacks and eats the bird, fine. It's not my place to intervene.

This is how I feel. If the bird does not fly away in time then it's not my place to save it...it's just the way nature goes.

I might shoo the cat though, or make a noise...but if the bird does not take heed and the cat persists, then it's on it's own.

[ZephyrusX]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

If your cat was hunting and caught the bird, you project YOUR opinions and values onto it. Why would you have to intervene? Simply because you fed the cat and believe that it's inhumane (or rather in-animali) thing that it's doing to the bird?

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

That is an interesting comparison between insects and 'larger animals'. I'm not sure if insects are capable of feeling pain. For the record, I try to save the insects. It really doesn't take that long to intervene. But this has more to do with my 'empathy' and what I imagine to be 'suffering'. It has more to do with my humanistic qualitites than the actual insects.

Yes.

This is what it means to be human. We project values and beliefs onto the objective world that reflect more about our spirits more so than the actual world. I am human.

[marinik]

This is exactly what I was thinking as I read the OP.

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

I would intervene if it was my cat or a cat I knew was getting fed. Otherwise, I would let it happen as a stray cat probably wouldn't trust me enough to feed it.

Originally Posted by cacheborn

I know it's natural and in order of things. That's not what bothers me. What I find difficult is to see another creature suffer in agony.

[Acolyte]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

This is what it means to be human. We project values and beliefs onto the objective world that reflect more about our spirits more so than the actual world. I am human.

So be it.

[mspositive]

Originally Posted by Midwinter Mist

You’re sat in a garden, when a cat attacks a bird. Would you intervene and help the bird or leave nature be? Would it make any difference if you had, for example, thrown food out for the bird, or if the bird was another animal, such as a mouse?

I was sitting in my garden recently where cats pass often and birds sometimes come down for food. I wondered for a moment whether or not I’d intervene if it happened before my eyes, but I couldn’t think of a complete answer, though I mostly swayed to helping the bird.

Are you somebody who would want to step in and alter situations like this is in any case, environment, etc., or would you perhaps leave it to be?

This happened to me about 10 years ago. Our dog attacked a magpie right in front of me. My immediate reaction was to run and stop the attack. I didn't think twice about it. Unfortunately she must have gotten a big bite right through the body, because the bird was already dead from just one crunch of her jaw. I was extremely upset about it, but didn't blame the dog, as she was a herding dog and probably just trying to nip it to herd it. I buried the poor thing down in the backyard with our deceased pets.

My point is, for me it was a visceral reaction to try and stop it. I didn't stop and think, is this the natural order of things? I saw another creature in trouble and tried to help it. Unfortunately nature won out anyway.

xxxmspositive