Smoking and the anti-smoking campaign

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

Showing images of car crashes works on people who have never given it any thought whatsoever, for the rest their minds are probably going to filter it out the same way I'd ignore anti-smoking ads if I wanted to take up cigarettes. On the other hand if, say, the subject of a lost loved one comes up and you can tell a heartfelt story about how you lost someone to a drunk driver, and there's no overt intention to guilt the listeners, that'll probably stick. At least it's more likely to evade their conscious defenses than statistics and imagery.

This may sound extremely cynical, but I often think the "anti-" ads (be it for drugs, alcohol, you name it) are actually trying to push those very products. I don't have statistics but I'd wager that's the effect it has. The same goes for what most people do to try and stigmatize something. It will eventually work if you hit a critical mass but it's the most roundabout way of getting to the goal I can think of.

Actually, the anti-smoking campaign in the US has been massively successful, so much so that it has increased life expectancy across the board, for people of both sexes (though men benefited more, probably because they were smoking more heavily to begin with) and all ethnic groups.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Actually, the anti-smoking campaign in the US has been massively successful, so much so that it has increased life expectancy across the board, for people of both sexes (though men benefited more, probably because they were smoking more heavily to begin with) and all ethnic groups.

Are you sure this isn't more due to the fact that smokers are now treated like parriahs in society, by non-smokers?

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Are you sure this isn't more due to the fact that smokers are now treated like parriahs in society, by non-smokers?

That's an effect of the anti-smoking campaign. Also, I wouldn't go so far as to say "treated like pariahs"...

[James81]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Actually, the anti-smoking campaign in the US has been massively successful, so much so that it has increased life expectancy across the board, for people of both sexes (though men benefited more, probably because they were smoking more heavily to begin with) and all ethnic groups.

As a smoker, I can attest to how successful the antismoking campaign gas been. I mean, I think that they were shooting to get people to not smoke. Not only have they done that, but they have made it so taboo that people ostracize the **** out of nonsmokers and kids who have vocabularies of like ten words will approach you and tell you how stupid it is to smoke.

That's pretty powerful results if you ask me.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

That's an effect of the anti-smoking campaign. Also, I wouldn't go so far as to say "treated like pariahs"...

True, though I think it's more that it has boosted feelings of self-righteousness in non-smokers who then guilt trip smokers with their dirty looks, into quitting or else they will be cast out of the tribe...so yes, in that way it does work.

Maybe pariah was too strong a word...social outcasts perhaps?

[James81]

Originally Posted by elucidate

True, though I think it's more that it has boosted feelings of self-righteousness in non-smokers who then guilt trip smokers with their dirty looks, into quitting or else they will be cast out of the tribe...so yes, in that way it does work.

Maybe pariah was too strong a word...social outcasts perhaps?

I think pariah was too nice a word actually.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by James81

As a smoker, I can attest to how successful the antismoking campaign gas been. I mean, I think that they were shooting to get people to not smoke. Not only have they done that, but they have made it so taboo that people ostracize the **** out of nonsmokers and kids who have vocabularies of like ten words will approach you and tell you how stupid it is to smoke.

That's pretty powerful results if you ask me.

It's a pretty powerful use of emotions of fear and guilt on humans, yes. It yields results, I'm just not sure it's done in the most highly conscious, loving way.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by elucidate

True, though I think it's more that it has boosted feelings of self-righteousness in non-smokers who then guilt trip smokers with their dirty looks, into quitting or else they will be cast out of the tribe...so yes, in that way it does work.

Maybe pariah was too strong a word...social outcasts perhaps?

You're right, it definitely has that effect. However... I've never smoked a cigarette because of photographs of diseased lungs (I can't get them out of my head), not because I think smokers are disgusting. I think it works both ways.

Originally Posted by James81

As a smoker, I can attest to how successful the antismoking campaign gas been. I mean, I think that they were shooting to get people to not smoke. Not only have they done that, but they have made it so taboo that people ostracize the **** out of nonsmokers and kids who have vocabularies of like ten words will approach you and tell you how stupid it is to smoke.

That's pretty powerful results if you ask me.

Really? Maybe I don't realize it because where I am, social smoking is pretty acceptable. I definitely do not condone that kind of rudeness.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

You're right, it definitely has that effect. However... I've never smoked a cigarette because of photographs of diseased lungs (I can't get them out of my head), not because I think smokers are disgusting. I think it works both ways.

You may be a lot more sensitive than most people are though? Most people are so highly de-sensitized that those graphic images don't even register in their conscious mind.

The fact that most children have watched something like 10,000 murders and regular acts of violence on tv and in movies before they are 12 years old these days is a disturbing reality, and it causes massive de-sensitization to graphic images. They simply aren't affected by it. What they are affected by is the threat of being cast out of the tribe and the fear of disapproval and not pleasing others. That touches on primal fears.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by elucidate

You may be a lot more sensitive than most people are though? Most people are so highly de-sensitized that those graphic images don't even register in their conscious mind.

*Raises hand*

What they are affected by is the threat of being cast out of the tribe and the fear of disapproval and not pleasing others. That touches on primal fears.

Bingo. That's always been the most powerful motivator.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

You're right, it definitely has that effect. However... I've never smoked a cigarette because of photographs of diseased lungs (I can't get them out of my head), not because I think smokers are disgusting. I think it works both ways.



Really? Maybe I don't realize it because where I am, social smoking is pretty acceptable. I definitely do not condone that kind of rudeness.

I was told that the reason they never asked me to help coach my sons baseball team this year was because I smoke. (I never smoked on the field, but because the kids can see me smoke by my car I was deemed as not a good role model for them.

I was also told that if I smoked at the field again (keep in mind that I smoke in the parking lot) that they would ban me from the field.

Now, I understand why it's not cool to smoke at the field or in the bleachers, but over in the lot away from everybody? I think that's total BS. And that is an opinion I would hold whether I smoke or not. If I heard that about someone else and I didn't smoke, I would still think that is ridiculous.

The whole culture here has seemingly deemed it completely acceptible to be rude and judge peoples character if they smoke. It's gotten way out of hand.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

I hadn't considered that angle. Yes, maybe the ads aren't aimed at the people who are prone to doing this stuff at all; they program people to parrot them whenever someone smokes or drinks etc.

Either way, when recreational behaviors go far enough to become destructive it's a coping mechanism. If you stigmatize it that doesn't solve the problem, it just pushes it into the shadows until it finds some other way to express itself.

Less drunk driving but more shootings? I could see that. "Don't shoot people. It really, really hurts."

Right...it's a more subtle form of the mob mentality, usually reserved for pedophiles.

[beast]

I'm with Criseyde. I don't smoke cigarettes because I'm horrified of those black lung pictures. I still think smoking can be awfully sexy and I don't see many people demonizing smokers, at all. Social pariahs?! Worse than social pariahs?! Not where I'm from.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by elucidate

You may be a lot more sensitive than most people are though? Most people are so highly de-sensitized that those graphic images don't even register in their conscious mind.

The fact that most children have watched something like 10,000 murders and regular acts of violence on tv and in movies before they are 12 years old these days is a disturbing reality, and it causes massive de-sensitization to graphic images. They simply aren't affected by it. What they are affected by is the threat of being cast out of the tribe and the fear of disapproval and not pleasing others. That touches on primal fears.

Maybe, I don't know. I don't think it could have gotten to the point of ostracization before a lot of people stopped smoking though, know what I mean? You have to have a clear majority for that to happen.

Graphic images definitely register and affect me, though, sometimes very much.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

*Raises hand*

And if children can have their sensitivity driven out of them at such a young age, they are more likely to condone or 'aquiesce' to unacceptable behavior they may be witness to in daily life.

They are more likely to not feel and to have less empathy than sensitive people do.

[James81]

Originally Posted by beast

I'm with Criseyde. I don't smoke cigarettes because I'm horrified of those black lung pictures. I still think smoking can be awfully sexy and I don't see many people demonizing smokers, at all. Social pariahs?! Worse than social pariahs?! Not where I'm from.

Of course, you don't see it because you don't smoke. You don't experience the dirty looks, the backended comments, and the social stigmas. Why would you? You don't smoke. It would be very easy to not see how overboard things have gotten with smoking if you don't experience them firsthand.

Bear in mind, I don't use these as excuses. In fact, I'm gearing up to quit for career reasons actually.

[beast]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Maybe, I don't know. I don't think it could have gotten to the point of ostracization before a lot of people stopped smoking though, know what I mean? You have to have a clear majority for that to happen.

Graphic images definitely register and affect me, though, sometimes very much.

I realized that Illustro and I both agreed with you re: the graphic images.

Maybe it's because US cigaretts boxes don't show those awful awful pictures? I can see people getting desensitized in other countries where they're forced to look at it all the flipping time, but no way, not me.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by elucidate

And if children can have their sensitivity driven out of them at such a young age, they are more likely to condone or 'aquiesce' to unacceptable behavior they may be witness to in daily life.

They are more likely to not feel and to have less empathy than sensitive people do.

I don't know that the images are so harmful in themselves. People are violent, we always have been and that's always gonna be a part of us. It's an issue of context. If television takes the place of the parent it's gonna **** the kid whether or not the images are violent, and if they are it's just that much worse.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by James81

I was told that the reason they never asked me to help coach my sons baseball team this year was because I smoke. (I never smoked on the field, but because the kids can see me smoke by my car I was deemed as not a good role model for them.

I was also told that if I smoked at the field again (keep in mind that I smoke in the parking lot) that they would ban me from the field.

Now, I understand why it's not cool to smoke at the field or in the bleachers, but over in the lot away from everybody? I think that's total BS. And that is an opinion I would hold whether I smoke or not. If I heard that about someone else and I didn't smoke, I would still think that is ridiculous.

The whole culture here has seemingly deemed it completely acceptible to be rude and judge peoples character if they smoke. It's gotten way out of hand.

I agree, that's BS. I wonder if this is regional. My ballet instructor was a smoker. The entire studio smelled like smoke. Tons of people sent their small children to him anyway. I had a lot of teachers who were smokers. I don't know...

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by beast

I'm with Criseyde. I don't smoke cigarettes because I'm horrified of those black lung pictures. I still think smoking can be awfully sexy and I don't see many people demonizing smokers, at all. Social pariahs?! Worse than social pariahs?! Not where I'm from.

Cool, then you must still be quite sensitive.

I think many smokers think they look quite sexy and cool too...I don't see it that way personally. There's nothing 'cool' or sexy about inhaling arsenic and thousands of other chems into delicate lung tissue...to me anyway.

There's a lot of demonizing that goes on in Australia...I can't speak for other places. Smokers I have spoken to feel bullied into quitting, not because they want to but because they are sick of being given the hairy eyeball everytime they light up.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by beast

I realized that Illustro and I both agreed with you re: the graphic images.

Maybe it's because US cigaretts boxes don't show those awful awful pictures? I can see people getting desensitized in other countries where they're forced to look at it all the flipping time, but no way, not me.

I'd say it's a matter of disposition over anything. It only takes a brief exposure to something for my mind to integrate and filter it. I think I squirmed the first couple of times I saw an image like that but now I shrug.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Maybe, I don't know. I don't think it could have gotten to the point of ostracization before a lot of people stopped smoking though, know what I mean? You have to have a clear majority for that to happen.

You may be right.

Graphic images definitely register and affect me, though, sometimes very much.

That's good...it means you are still human.

[beast]

Originally Posted by James81

Of course, you don't see it because you don't smoke. You don't experience the dirty looks, the backended comments, and the social stigmas. Why would you? You don't smoke. It would be very easy to not see how overboard things have gotten with smoking if you don't experience them firsthand.

Bear in mind, I don't use these as excuses. In fact, I'm gearing up to quit for career reasons actually.

Both of my parents and most of my closest friends smoke. I am definitely in the minority, as a nonsmoker, amongst the people I spend time with. I think I would notice it if the ostracization were something that actually occurred here.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by beast

I realized that Illustro and I both agreed with you re: the graphic images.

Maybe it's because US cigaretts boxes don't show those awful awful pictures? I can see people getting desensitized in other countries where they're forced to look at it all the flipping time, but no way, not me.

Haha, I think I would just avoid the cigarette boxes... i.e. not smoke.

When I was in London over the summer, actually, I had a nice chat with a cashier at Sainsbury's about this -- I had never seen the boxes before, but she obviously had, and she showed them all to me with relish, while telling me "I can't believe anybody smokes, I shudder every time I sell a pack, just from the pictures" etc.

Honestly... I have a problem with rudeness but I don't have a problem with disincentive campaigns that show health risks &c. And that goes for drunk driving too. It may be a personal choice, but it's also a public health issue (especially drunk driving). I see no reason not to try and convince people to stop.

[James81]

Originally Posted by beast

Both of my parents and most of my closest friends smoke. I am definitely in the minority, as a nonsmoker, amongst the people I spend time with. I think I would notice it if the ostracization were something that actually occurred here.

I don't think that hanging out with smokers is quite the same as being a smoker. But, for the sake of the thread, I'll just go ahead and say things might be different where you are. I can concede that it's possible.

But I've shared personal experiences that say that this type if ostracization does exist. I might even suspect that it's related to me living in a highly religious area. That's just a guess though.

[beast]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Haha, I think I would just avoid the cigarette boxes... i.e. not smoke.

When I was in London over the summer, actually, I had a nice chat with a cashier at Sainsbury's about this -- I had never seen the boxes before, but she obviously had, and she showed them all to me with relish, while telling me "I can't believe anybody smokes, I shudder every time I sell a pack, just from the pictures" etc.

Honestly... I have a problem with rudeness but I don't have a problem with disincentive campaigns that show health risks &c. And that goes for drunk driving too. It may be a personal choice, but it's also a public health issue (especially drunk driving). I see no reason not to try and convince people to stop.

Yeah, I wonder how well it's been at preventing kids from taking up the habit; I doubt it's been very effective in making people quit.

I don't mind blatant, in-your-face campaigning in these cases, though. I think it's shocking and upsetting, but the same goes for lung cancer and drunk driving. I wasn't really joking when I said that drunk drivers should be made to do time at their county morgue.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

I don't know that the images are so harmful in themselves. People are violent, we always have been and that's always gonna be a part of us. It's an issue of context. If television takes the place of the parent it's gonna **** the kid whether or not the images are violent, and if they are it's just that much worse.

Yes, we are violent. We don't need thousands of gruesome images drilled into our heads via movies to become more so though.

I used to think the way you do about images not affecting minds, but I have come to believe, through my exploration of my own mind, that graphic images can and do have a disturbing effect on the mind. Maybe just mine and others of more sensitive dispositions, but I have a hard time believing that it doesn't affect other peoples minds on some level, which they may not be aware of?

[beast]

Originally Posted by James81

I don't think that hanging out with smokers is quite the same as being a smoker. But, for the sake of the thread, I'll just go ahead and say things might be different where you are. I can concede that it's possible.

But I've shared personal experiences that say that this type if ostracization does exist. I might even suspect that it's related to me living in a highly religious area. That's just a guess though.

I don't mean to put your personal experience into question, I completely believe you - that's effed up, by the way.

I do think it is a regional thing, though. I come from perhaps the most liberal town in the most liberal state in our country, and I read once that democrats are more than twice as likely to smoke as republicans. It really isn't very taboo at all where I'm from, and I haven't seen anything near what you've described up here.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

I'd say it's a matter of disposition over anything. It only takes a brief exposure to something for my mind to integrate and filter it. I think I squirmed the first couple of times I saw an image like that but now I shrug.

It depends on how I'm feeling, as to whether the images affect me or not. I generally do get squirmish though when I see them...I even get disturbed when I see the cardboard advertisements for toe rot cream that pharmacists display in their shop windows here...they're the worst to me. I get so disturbed when I see giant toes with advanced toe rot...yeeeesh.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, we are violent. We don't need thousands of gruesome images drilled into our heads via movies to become more so though.

I used to think the way you do about images not affecting minds, but I have come to believe, through my exploration of my own mind, that graphic images can and do have a disturbing effect on the mind. Maybe just mine and others of more sensitive dispositions, but I have a hard time believing that it doesn't affect other peoples minds on some level, which they may not be aware of?

I think it depends on the individual.

I know it's impacted me but I don't think it's a bad thing. I'm much, much harder to faze, which means I'm also harder to control. It's a tradeoff. It's also made me better at utilizing and releasing things I used to repress, which is ultimately a wonderful thing.

The thing that was most harmful to me as a child, whether we're talking violent images, pornography, what have you, was the notion that I -should- be harmed. That screwed with my coping mechanism and it took a long time to understand and undo the damage.