Smoking and the anti-smoking campaign

[James81]

Originally Posted by beast

That makes sense to me, I guess. Your "like anything else" bit threw me off a little bit, because I don't think most people are so rational in their choices - I know I'm not! But point taken.

Also, I think you're completely right, Cochonette. Just ten minutes ago, I was minding my merry way sitting at a bus stop bench (I think I sat in cat pee, so it wasn't so merry, but that's not relevant) and a woman sat right next to me and started smoking, and the wind blew everything in my face. I didn't really get why this was happening, because there was a completely free bench ten feet away, where she could have smoked to her heart's content without it blowing into my face. I didn't say anything, because I wasn't feeling confrontational, and I didn't move because I wasn't feeling passive-aggressive, but it struck me as really rude.

I know there are plenty of considerate smokers out there, and like I said, I count many of my friends and family members amongst them. But it's not the first time that someone's blown smoke in my face, so I can understand people shooting death glares at smokers in those situations.

I'm a fairly couteous smoker. I go outside, and move away from the entrances, don't even smoke in my own vehicle actually.....

But it's funny. I've actually went outside, moved away from all the people around off on my own, and had people walk up and start talking to me and then start complaining about the smoke or give me the evil glare. And I usually stand there and think to myself that I was standing over here and they decided to put themselves in the vicinty of my smoke and then get bitchy about it.

I mean, I know I'm rather irresistable and am quite approachable, but come on...you see the friking cigarette in my hand.

In all honesty, the smell of smoke on your clothes is the only stank that you can really get judged for having. I know several people who smell like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (literally) because they don't bathe (I'm thinking of a particular family that I have in mind here), and people find the smell offensive (of course), but they don't sit around and cast judgment onto them for smelling that way. I never hear someone say to them, "You don't bathe. Do you know how stupid that is?"

Perfume can make people a bit more edgy, but, again, I've never heard someone comment on the smell of someone's perfume and then call them stupid for wearing it. (Even though there are known carcinogens in perfume.)

I don't care how bad you don't like the smell, it does not give anybody the right to cast judgment on another or to preach at them for what they are doing. If someone doesn't realize, by now, that smoking is bad for you, then they have probably been living in a cave. Actually, if you don't intuitively realize that taking smoke into your body is bad for you, then perhaps you deserve to be called "stupid."

Do you like it when the mormoms come knocking on your door and tell you you are going to hell? Do you appreciate it when you eat a piece of cake (or something that you enjoy that is not healthy) and someone says "that's just gonna make you fat."

Don't you think you'd get just a tiny be irritated if that happened to you on a consistent basis? (That is, if someone criticized your supposedly unhealthy choice in food. *cough*AndrewGubb*cough*)

But here's the thing...in the examples I give you, those actions are not triggers for why you are choosing it. A mormom telling you you are going to hell is not triggering you to serve the devil. Nor is someone telling you that a piece of cake is making you fat is triggering you to eat that cake.

But the feeling generated by the criticism...the anxious feeling of being judged...is a very feeling that smokers choose to smoke to reduce (or eliminate).

In those moments, you (general you) become part of the problem and not the solution. (Ultimately the smoker chooses to smoke for themselves, at the behest of no one else. I'm not casting off responsibility here. Actually, it might be more accurate to say that you certainly aren't making it any easier for them to quit smoking.)

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by sorter

It's mass brain washing.
In the 50s and 60s no one gave the smell of smoke (or cologne or unwashed folks) a second thought.
Still true in much of Europe.
.

Absolutely not. Angela is not brainwashed and neither am I. Back in the 60s, it wasn't noticed as much because nearly every adult reeked of tobacco and you were hard pressed to find someone that didn't.

If you smoke, you reek. I can smell you a mile away. I personally think it is a disgusting smell and do not care to be around it. (cigarettes in particular, but any tobacco).

I'm fortunate that I live in a state that was early in banning smoking in public places. Bars and restaurants are so much better to be in now. And you know what? Didn't hurt their business one bit.

You think if you aren't actively blowing it in my face it shouldn't be a problem? WRONG. It is in the entire atmosphere all around you. You have absolutely no right whatsoever to expect anyone to deal with your toxic pollution.

I agree with beast except for the sexiness part. Does nothing for me. Everytime I see it on TV or a movie (Carrie in SATC), I instinctively hold my breath. That girl is a freaking chimney. I wouldn't date Carrie for all the tea in China. I wouldn't hang with her if she offered to do a threesome with Samantha and me. (I'd just take Samantha and go somewhere else. )

I've always had respiratory issues, and so you can say, yeah he's more sensitive to stuff in the air. I'm really picky about my air. But that doesn't take away from the fact that if you smoke tobacco, you are an addict, you are disrespecting your body, you reek.

And these opinions, however hard-headed you view them, were developed with my own free-thinking mind, not as a result of anyone's marketing campaign.

I'm really not the bull-head you think I am, not about everything. But smoking, and drunk driving, yep. That's me.

[James81]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

I've always had respiratory issues, and so you can say, yeah he's more sensitive to stuff in the air. I'm really picky about my air. But that doesn't take away from the fact that if you smoke tobacco, you are an addict, you are disrespecting your body, you reek.

If I were you, I'd focus on the important stuff first. That is, taking care of the bigger toxic pollutants that are in your air that are causing your respiratory problems. On the list of things in your air that are causing yoru respiratory problems, the smell of smoke on someone's clothes falls roughly above the smell of garlic that seeps into someone's skin if they eat too much.

If you really want to clean up your air, you should go after people who drive cars. And people who work in and support factories. Do you ever find yourself behind an 18 wheeler and get a huff of diesel from their exhaust? Do you sit and curse them?

I doubt it. I doubt it because you know that truck is bringing you products that you would be unwilling to give up to clean up the very air you complain about.

Bear in mind, I'm raising these issues for one reason and one reason only: to illustrate how the general consciousness has chosen smoking as it's patsy, and meanwhile ignores the more pertinent and the more damaging things that are going on.

It's easier to point your finger at someone who is smoking and tell them that they are polluting your air than it is to boycott the products that are *really* polluting your air.

[sorter]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Absolutely not. Angela is not brainwashed and neither am I. Back in the 60s, it wasn't noticed as much because nearly every adult reeked of tobacco and you were hard pressed to find someone that didn't.

If you smoke, you reek. I can smell you a mile away. I personally think it is a disgusting smell and do not care to be around it. (cigarettes in particular, but any tobacco).

I'm fortunate that I live in a state that was early in banning smoking in public places. Bars and restaurants are so much better to be in now. And you know what? Didn't hurt their business one bit.

You think if you aren't actively blowing it in my face it shouldn't be a problem? WRONG. It is in the entire atmosphere all around you. You have absolutely no right whatsoever to expect anyone to deal with your toxic pollution.

I agree with beast except for the sexiness part. Does nothing for me. Everytime I see it on TV or a movie (Carrie in SATC), I instinctively hold my breath. That girl is a freaking chimney. I wouldn't date Carrie for all the tea in China. I wouldn't hang with her if she offered to do a threesome with Samantha and me. (I'd just take Samantha and go somewhere else. )

I've always had respiratory issues, and so you can say, yeah he's more sensitive to stuff in the air. I'm really picky about my air. But that doesn't take away from the fact that if you smoke tobacco, you are an addict, you are disrespecting your body, you reek.

And these opinions, however hard-headed you view them, were developed with my own free-thinking mind, not as a result of anyone's marketing campaign.

I'm really not the bull-head you think I am, not about everything. But smoking, and drunk driving, yep. That's me.

Sure, in the 50s there were people with genuine sensativities.
But there is definitely some brain washing going on. The majority of people who are now
"sensitive" to smoke wouldn't have been in the sixties. They'd be sucking on a cig.

I've never thought you were bull-headed.

I hold my nose for everything about SATC.
.

[beast]

Hey James, I just wanna say that I can understand where you're coming from, it sounds like you've met your fair share of really rude people. I'm not cool with that either.

Ha! I'm on the bus now, and a lady just doused herself in perfume! I hate perfume stench, too...and I have seen people criticize others for wearing perfume.

Once, at a party in my house, a guest (not sure if you can even call her that, more like an uninvited hippie straggler lady) approached my mom and asked her "can you tell me the name of your perfume, just so I can know to avoid it in the future?" I was flabbergasted by her audacity - and, come on now, how are you going to be sure to avoid a certain perfume in the future? What was this crazy fool thinking?! I was very close to saying something, but out of respect for my mom I kept my trap shut. So, I hate perfume, and I acknowledge that my mom occasionally applies it with a heavy hand, but I still can't get behind that sort of jackassery ever.

[James81]

Originally Posted by beast

Hey James, I just wanna say that I can understand where you're coming from, it sounds like you've met your fair share of really rude people. I'm not cool with that either.

Ha! I'm on the bus now, and a lady just doused herself in perfume! I hate perfume stench, too...and I have seen people criticize others for wearing perfume.

Once, at a party in my house, a guest (not sure if you can even call her that, more like an uninvited hippie straggler lady) approached my mom and asked her "can you tell me the name of your perfume, just so I can know to avoid it in the future?" I was flabbergasted by her audacity - and, come on now, how are you going to be sure to avoid a certain perfume in the future? What was this crazy fool thinking?! I was very closer to saying something, but out of respect for my mom I kept my trap shut. So, I hate perfume, and I acknowledge that my mom occasionally applies it with a heavy hand, but I still can't get behind that sort of jackassery ever.

Yeah, it sounds like you at least understand that it's not cool to judge people or be rude. Kudos to you for that.

[beast]

Well, Samantha is really sexy. Maybe if she smoked a lot you might find it more appealing, LMM? I mean...not to body-snark or anything, but I wouldn't find Carrie sexy under pretty much any circumstances.



I can't help how alluring I find this!!!

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by James81

If I were you, I'd focus on the important stuff first. That is, taking care of the bigger toxic pollutants that are in your air that are causing your respiratory problems. On the list of things in your air that are causing yoru respiratory problems, the smell of smoke on someone's clothes falls roughly above the smell of garlic that seeps into someone's skin if they eat too much.

If you really want to clean up your air, you should go after people who drive cars. And people who work in and support factories. Do you ever find yourself behind an 18 wheeler and get a huff of diesel from their exhaust? Do you sit and curse them?

I doubt it. I doubt it because you know that truck is bringing you products that you would be unwilling to give up to clean up the very air you complain about.

Bear in mind, I'm raising these issues for one reason and one reason only: to illustrate how the general consciousness has chosen smoking as it's patsy, and meanwhile ignores the more pertinent and the more damaging things that are going on.

It's easier to point your finger at someone who is smoking and tell them that they are polluting your air than it is to boycott the products that are *really* polluting your air.

Sounds like the excuses and whining of cancer addict to me. And when I'm behind a stinky truck, do I curse them? Mostly I downshift and pass. If I can't, then roll up the windows, put the air on recirc and let the cursing begin.

BTW, the smell of smoke on your body/hair/clothing isn't really about air pollution in particular, it's about how disgusting and unattractive it is. That I can mostly easily avoid. But when you light up, and start putting you crap in other people's air, different matter.

And given the number of Priuses and other hybrids driving around here, I'd say your general swipe at the general consciousness is full of holes.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

No, I never said that anyone had to smoke first in order to criticize it. Just that it's easy to look at it from the outside when you haven't experienced it, and make that particular criticism. Because s0s has never experienced the pleasure of smoking a cigarette, of course she wonders "what's so great about this?"

As for people who once enjoyed smoking but no longer do, I'd say they make that decision based on a cost-benefit analysis, like anything else. The negatives eventually outweigh the positives, thus they quit. Does that answer your question?

It was a question, not a criticism: sorry if it occurred that way. I have tried smoking, I've just never been addicted--and I know the pleasure/relief of something goes up if you've already got that loop going in your head.

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by beast

Well, Samantha is really sexy. Maybe if she smoked a lot you might find it more appealing, LMM? I mean...not to body-snark or anything, but I wouldn't find Carrie sexy under pretty much any circumstances.



I can't help how alluring I find this!!!

Yeah, I suppose getting past her nose is a challenge. So in the above pic, she's alluring, but the cloud around her head undoes it for me. You know what her mouth is going to taste like. bleahhhhh.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by beast

That makes sense to me, I guess. Your "like anything else" bit threw me off a little bit, because I don't think most people are so rational in their choices - I know I'm not! But point taken.

Also, I think you're completely right, Cochonette. Just ten minutes ago, I was minding my merry way sitting at a bus stop bench (I think I sat in cat pee, so it wasn't so merry, but that's not relevant) and a woman sat right next to me and started smoking, and the wind blew everything in my face. I didn't really get why this was happening, because there was a completely free bench ten feet away, where she could have smoked to her heart's content without it blowing into my face. I didn't say anything, because I wasn't feeling confrontational, and I didn't move because I wasn't feeling passive-aggressive, but it struck me as really rude.

I know there are plenty of considerate smokers out there, and like I said, I count many of my friends and family members amongst them. But it's not the first time that someone's blown smoke in my face, so I can understand people shooting death glares at smokers in those situations.

It's totally not passive aggressive to move if someones bothering you! The way I see it at least, you're just getting yourself out of a situation you don't want to be in; not slighting the person doing the bothering.

[secrets0stolen]

I'm more likely to make a comment on heavy cologne/perfume than smoke. But that's cause I really, really, really can't stand to breath in that stuff.

My brother smokes peach cigars, lol, those don't smell nearly as bad as cigarettes!

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by sorter

It's mass brain washing.
In the 50s and 60s no one gave the smell of smoke (or cologne or unwashed folks) a second thought.
Still true in much of Europe.
.

It's brainwashing maybe in the sense that sanitation is brainwashing. In 1900, the number one cause of death was communicable disease. Public health initiatives drastically reduced that. Now public health initiatives are trying to drastically reduce lung cancer, which is the second most common form of cancer (behind skin cancer) and the form of cancer that kills the greatest number of people.

[relaXman]

Like many civil, developed country, in our country, for 3 years smoking has been restricted enough by some rules, for example it is banned in all the closed place, punishment is high, cigar is very expensive, all the bad sides of smoking are being explained to everbody.

thanks to our prime minister,Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, being smoker is diffucult stuff in our country,
I hate smoking,
after these, to say frankly, I am amazed and biased for smokers,

[Weena]

I smoke. Not inside the house, not in the car, not in public places, not around my kids or non-smoking friends. And I never litter with butt.

Since I'm courteous about it, I expect people to be too. If they are not it's their problem not mine, I think I take enough caring measures to not feel guilty about it. If I felt "guilty" I'd quit. For the time being, there's nothing like my wonderful few minutes of "me time" on the back deck enjoying one.

I see people not taking of their health in any way (not exercising, eating junk etc) and yet feeling entitled to be nasty towards smokers. Are they serious?

[secrets0stolen]

There's polonium in tobacco that's grown today. It's suspected that that's one of the many things that makes cigarette smoke cancer causing. The cigarette companies have already developed methods for removing or greatly reducing the polonium content. Why don't they do it? It costs money and they don't have to.

[James81]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

BTW, the smell of smoke on your body/hair/clothing isn't really about air pollution in particular, it's about how disgusting and unattractive it is. That I can mostly easily avoid. But when you light up, and start putting you crap in other people's air, different matter.

If that is the case, then what are you complaining about? Where I'm from, it's illegal to smoke indoors and/or within 30 feet of any public entrance/structure.

You have a better chance of ingesting the smoke from a diesel engine than you do of being affected by a smoker's smoke, given the legislation.

I know that if things are like that *here*, in my little backwoods state, then I can only imagine what they must be like in California.

Originally Posted by Angela

As for me, if I were to feel anxious about being judged or criticized, I would consider that to be my own responsibility and be at cause in the matter of my own state, rather than resisting their "right" to judge or criticize, which would tend to support the anxiety in something of a downward spiral, as you noticed.

Of course. I did qualify my statement with that.

There's cause...that is, being at cause in the matter of getting what you want. In terms of smoking, the smoker is always the official and ultimate decider of each and every cigarette they put to their mouth.

And then...there is influence. The influence from other people that make my decision to be at cause easier or harder. Some people's influence make my decision to be at cause more of a challenge. Other people make it easier.

In other words, my point was that the judgment, ostracization, and scare tactics are just another obstacle in the battle to quit smoking. An unnecessarily added challenge. And it's all done under the name of encouraging people to quit. It's kind of ironic in that sense. And that is the point I'm trying to convey. I'm pointing out the irony behind it. That is, you *think* your statement about them needing to quit is influencing them to quit, but what is really happening is that it's bringing that feeling to the forefront...the one that they currently do not have the internal resources to manage without a cigarette.

[Weena]

Also, some people die of skin cancer (the most common one here in Australia), breast cancer, prostate cancer, ...

[Weena]

Originally Posted by James81

In other words, my point was that the judgment, ostracization, and scare tactics are just another obstacle in the battle to quit smoking. An unnecessarily added challenge. And it's all done under the name of encouraging people to quit. It's kind of ironic in that sense.

yes I'm incredibly resistant to that. Only makes me want to light one, to be honest, just to spite them.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Weena

yes I'm incredibly resistant to that. Only makes me want to light one, to be honest, just to spite them.

Exactly.

That's not to blame THEM for my choosing to light a cigarette "just to spite them." I realize that it's personally a silly reason to light a cigarette.

But it's certainly not helping. Or educating me. Or anything like that. If anything, it's kinda annoying how literally so many people can say the exact same thing and not realize that they are saying the exact same thing that zillions of others have said before them.

I kinda wonder if they think they are telling me something that I haven't already heard before.

Yet, another part of me wonders if it's sort of like Pavlov's dog. See monkey smoking cigarette, wag finger at monkey.

[James81]

That's right mo fo's, keep the pos reps coming for my posts in this thread. I LITERALLY FEED OFF YOUR POS REP. It makes me powerful.

[LostMyMap]

Pavlov's dog: get annoyed or anxious, light one up. Uh huh.

[James81]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Pavlov's dog: get annoyed or anxious, light one up. Uh huh.

Exactly.

At least my pavlov dog thing makes a bit of sense. As the nicotine *does* ease the feeling.

Does the wagging make you feel better?

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by James81

Exactly.

At least my pavlov dog thing makes a bit of sense. As the nicotine *does* ease the feeling.

Does the wagging make you feel better?

It eases the feeling because you are chemically addicted to it. You are an addict, your choice to light one up at that time isn't a fully conscious choice. It 'wants' you to have more. Your derision of the people wagging at you just makes you look all the more a pathetic addict. A built in defense mechanism to try to redirect the focus from yourself.

[Weena]

Originally Posted by James81

I kinda wonder if they think they are telling me something that I haven't already heard before.

The way I see it is this: I'm a courteous person and I expect the same. I don't go around saying "hey fatso, how's that cholesterol working for you?". Because for all I know, each time someone has made a comment they were unhealthy people themselves, so it's laughable enough to me. I have non-smoking friends who are really healthy and happy and guess what? They are the ones who never once said a nasty thing. Funny, isn't it?

[James81]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

It eases the feeling because you are chemically addicted to it. You are an addict, your choice to light one up at that time isn't a fully conscious choice. It 'wants' you to have more. Your derision of the people wagging at you just makes you look all the more a pathetic addict. A built in defense mechanism to try to redirect the focus from yourself.

Actually, not really. I doubt my opinion will change after I quit smoking. And trust me, I've spent loads of time looking at myself. You got to be a witness to only a small portion of that last year in the countless threads where I explored these issues those sam issues are all feeders of the issues that drive me to smoke.

I think you might be projecting your own unwillingness to look at yourself onto me. We are probably mirror buddies in this discussion.

[relaXman]

Originally Posted by Angela

That's great! That's what I was talking about when I referred to quitting smoking as an opportunity for expanding personal power. If you can take an action that's right for you to take, even in the presence of judgement, ostracization, scare tactics, and other obstacles, you are really generating some kick-ass personal power! From that perspective, those judgey mcjudgersons and rudey mcrudersons are doing you a huge favor -- they are your support system.

And if you're not interested in quitting, rude judgers present you with an opportunity to take your own right action and feel good regardless of the judgement or rudeness of others -- to practice mastery. Or perhaps even to make a difference for them -- for instance, by engaging with them and helping them resolve their own bad-feeling resistance.

You are really blessed by all this judgement and rudeness! Or rather, you could be.

Qutting smoking is not diffucult stuff any more.
Like past years, there is no need use compelling tecniques or long positive persuasion ways, for quitting.

There are some drugs with lowe side effect, short therapies to cool from smoking in short time.

I think Problem is not regarding to ways,

Smokers ego created fake identity with smoking .
Ego assume that If you quit smoking , ego will die, how terrible for ego ;
only crimer is ego ;

[sorter]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

It's brainwashing maybe in the sense that sanitation is brainwashing. In 1900, the number one cause of death was communicable disease. Public health initiatives drastically reduced that. Now public health initiatives are trying to drastically reduce lung cancer, which is the second most common form of cancer (behind skin cancer) and the form of cancer that kills the greatest number of people.

If the anti-smoking hysteria actually helps prevent cancer then it's not brainwashing or hysteria.
But there are serious doubts about that as I mentioned here:
Smoking and the anti-smoking campaign

Google "Judge William Osteen epa" and you'll find lots of pro and con.

Is there a reasonable health issue that there should be a ban on smoking in parks and beaches?
My napoleon complexed billionaire mayor thinks so.
New York poised to ban smoking in Central Park, Times Square - CSMonitor.com
"The science is clear: prolonged exposure to secondhand smoke -- whether you're indoors or out -- hurts your health. Today, we're doing something about it," Bloomberg said.

Really? What science?
The science has been questionable since the EPA's report but no one cares.
That's hysteria in my book.
.

[Weena]

Originally Posted by relaXman

Smokers ego created fake identity with smoking .

Even though I'm a smoker, I do understand this one, because I've thought about it this way (sort of). I reckon we incarnate with a "persona", and my own "persona" is a smoker. I did not get it from my parents or anything (which is why when I read "If you smoke your kids will too" I find it irrelevant, I've seen the opposite both ways many a time).

But back to the ego...interesting take on it. I know when I quit for a few months I got fat. I was not over eating, and I was regularly exercising...and yet, I got the fattest I've ever been. My ego did not like this at all.

[ssandra]

Weena; what would happen if you would choose to still take your time outside, alone, but instead of a cigarette you would have a glass of water, a cup of tea, or listen to a relaxing song on an mp3 player?

Would you get the same benefits from smoking?

(I don't mind if you smoke or not, I'm just curious about it ).