Money and "Experts"

[jawillie]

I am not sure where to post this one, here or Business. I am choosing here, because of "helping the greater good" part.

I have a real issue with money. I know it's not evil, and I know "I am worthy" and all that jazz, but I also have a real problem with it, as in - my relationship with money sucks right now. I have a real disdain for constantly shelling it out for information or help, as in, paying an expert to help me. Especially right now when I am on a super-tight budget and even $20.00 is too much for something that is not food, gas or mortgage payments.

I love helping people. I love empowering people. But, I couldn't ask for money to do that. Especially because I also FIRMLY believe we need to all be our own experts.

Steve has said it himself, more or less, that someone creating thier own template will do better than following someone else's "plan," so why pay for a plan that is just someone else's way of reaching success when creating my own would be better??

My passions - the outdoors and empowering people. I have been thinking how I can combine the two and make money. Canoeing and counseling rang a bell. I met someone today who DOES THAT. She is a Lifecoach with all these funky "certifications" (I have a disdain for those as well, but that's another post) and she is CHARGING people to canoe with her, walk with her, etc.....

I am not knocking her - I just don't think I could do it. I am not sure I could do it with a concious, clear heart. I can't imagine paying someone $20.00 to go for a walk with me..... (toilet paper is a luxury right now!! lol)

So.... really, what I want to say... those that need the help the most have the least. Don't they?? What about them? Who helps them, empowers them? They honestly DON'T have the money to pay for expert advise..

I know, so what do I want to do? Cater to the poor and be poor?

UGH.

Does any of this even make sense to you intelligent people? lol

I genuinely CARE about those who are stuck and can't afford to pay for expert help.

I am working a 10/hour job and I have $50,000 in student loans, a BA in Psychology and I am thinking, wth??? This is backwards! (but, please know, I love, love, love my job - I work with adults with developmental disabilities and I know I will be a supervisor soon, I love empowering employees and the clients, but even as a supe, that is what? $16/hour???)

Yet, it seems to do what I love I need "certifications" and I refuse to pay to be allowed to use my knowledge.. what a scam!!

Sorry for rambling.... this messiness of a post represents well my relationship with money - A MESS.... Other areas of my life have improved so well, I am no longer depressed or anxious. I have a great relationship with my husband (despite our financial mess). I have to tackle this money stuff now.....

Did this make sense to anyone?? Any advise from sound, sane, enlightened people? Thanks!

[jawillie]

What I want to add: Clearly, I am conflicted.

On one hand, I believe that if I offer value to the world, value will come back to me. Even if I have a 10/hour job.

But, on the other, my 10/hour job is not paying all my bills and no one is lining up, "giving me money."

I don't want to make "making money" my focus.... yet, I need it.

[jawillie]

I should also note, for informational purposes, I have started a Free 12 Week Fitness support group where we will meet in local parks for old-school, boot-camp style workouts twice a week. I wanted to join a class like this, but couldn't afford it, so I thought, why not start my own?

I am making it free because I am not a personal trainer, I am not "certified" in anything and I don't feel qualified to "teach" anything. So, it is a support group, not a class.

This is the kind of stuff I love to do, Five people have signed up for the informational meeting so far, and it's been one day since I opened it up.

Why am I adding this infor? Not sure... it seems relevent somehow. lol

[NicoleNicki]

I definitely can't offer thoughts here...but just wanted to mention that I happened across one of your posts on this forum yesterday evening...it was helpful to me. I then click on your web-site/blog, which was also very helpful to me. I wrote quite a bit about my thoughts in my journal last night and even contemplated sending you an e-mail to thank you (but, for whatever reason, felt odd about that). Had there been a paypal on your site (I didn't see one), I would have donated (I understand even having a paypal on your site might get to some of the questions you've posed above).

I know this doesn't help you with your question -- I'm sorry, I don't have any thoughts that would help. However, just wanted to share this with you. Just by offering what you offered, in the way you offered (just being you and sharing), helped me.

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by NicoleNicki

I definitely can't offer thoughts here...but just wanted to mention that I happened across one of your posts on this forum yesterday evening...it was helpful to me. I then click on your web-site/blog, which was also very helpful to me. I wrote quite a bit about my thoughts in my journal last night and even contemplated sending you an e-mail to thank you (but, for whatever reason, felt odd about that). Had there been a paypal on your site (I didn't see one), I would have donated (I understand even having a paypal on your site might get to some of the questions you've posed above).

I know this doesn't help you with your question -- I'm sorry, I don't have any thoughts that would help. However, just wanted to share this with you. Just by offering what you offered, in the way you offered (just being you and sharing), helped me.

Wow, thanks. I am humbled by your willingness to share that with me.

I only share my experiences, I really don't think I have it all together, as this thread clearly shares. lol It is another reason I would have a hard time being a Life coach or something, because who am I to say to another what is best when my life is and never will be perfect, either? When I will never be a perfect human who has it all together?

But thank you so much. I do believe we are all teachers and that is why sharing our journeys is so important.

[Lynn 007]

Hello

I agree with the OP; add a donation button to your website for starters.

Also, for your free bootcamp; give people the opportunity to make a donation and invite them to bring a friend to the next class. You are provinding value -summer is around the corner and people want to feel and look great.

Just today, I was invited to a bootcamp week, consisting of canoeing,yoga, hiking, etc, and you stayed in cabins up north and they were asking $2300/pp for the week or $2100/ pp if you wanted more than one week - a bit too rich for me and not my idea of fun.

Perhaps contact a local resort and see how much they would want and organize something in the off season (before June after Sept). They win with potential repeat business and if their reservations are slow they would be willing to accomodate you.

If you're interested in learning another area; seek out an "expert" and volunteer your time to help with the class in exchange for lessons.

Just my two cents.

Lynn

[jawillie]

Thanks, Lynn! I suppose from my broke perspective, I am having a hard time remembering others are still flourishing. We had a really good financial streak for eight-ten years and then BAM. I could feel it before it happened, though.... like a vortex of doom, sucking you in, yet you feel powerless to stop it.

I am not seeking expert advise. I am actually quite tired of it, yet I post a question seeking opinions. lol

In all my ramblings, I found some clarity within myself, but perhaps I would have been better suited keeping it to a private journal. Ooops!

I do need to repair my relationship with money, though. I always try to give... have a nickel, give a penny. It's not the amount, it's the intent. I try to also give value to those I receive value. Back in the day it was cash, the days it is a smile, verbal appreciation, a helping hand...

Anyway, I know this was a confusing thread. It did help me in the end, even without others chiming in. lol

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by Lynn 007

Perhaps contact a local resort and see how much they would want and organize something in the off season (before June after Sept). They win with potential repeat business and if their reservations are slow they would be willing to accomodate you.

Just my two cents.

Lynn

and thanks for this.... it just reminds me not to limit myself, to think outside the box.

In the end, I will just flow with life and not try to over-analyze too much.

[SatvikBeri]

Well, your problems really come from your attitude towards money. Everything else is a symptom. I would attack that belief directly-try some methods of removing limiting beliefs and see what works for you.

Just google "limiting beliefs" for information on methods to remove them. I've noticed that only maybe one out of five methods seems to work for any particular person, so don't be discouraged if a method doesn't work right away for you-try a few more and see what happens. Learning to remove limiting beliefs will seriously change your life-this has had the biggest impact for me out of any PD material I learned.

[chernobyl]

I think your main problem is that you are not seeing money as the ultimate equivalent of the help you are giving.

Let's say for instance that you live in a little farm community and your neighbor has chickens while you have some cows.

Now let's suppose that you want to make some breakfast and you want some eggs. But you don't have eggs yourself.

So you go to your neighbor, climb over the fence and grab some eggs from their chicken house. Unfortunately the neighbor sees you and..

Let's rewind that a little.

You go to your neighbor and you ask whether he wants to have some bacon and he says "Yes sure, how much you charge for your bacon?". You say "Oh thats ok, you can pay me with a couple of eggs."

Now you have the eggs and the neighbor is happy with his bacon. So now you have effectively "bought" the eggs from him with bacon. Was the bacon evil? Were the eggs evil?

Would you now say that money is evil?

[Savage]

You're overthinking this. Actually I take that back cuz it's too mild. Your thinking is almost completely backwards. You're putting the cart before the horse.

Don't worry about charging for your services out of the gate. That comes later. You shouldn't even be fussing with those kinds of thoughts yet. It's premature.

Just start PROVIDING your service immediately. Don't delay on that. Give it away for free. Just start signing people up as soon as you possibly can, offering them whatever you do for the lowest price you can, ideally for free or at least at cost if you have some costs associated with it.

Once you're actively providing your service to people, you'll quickly learn whether or not you're providing real value to them, and if you are, then your vibe -- and your relationship to money -- will quickly shift.

You can't grasp that vibe when you're standing still. When you're standing still, of course you're going to have mixed feelings about money. That's because you haven't earned it yet, so you know in your heart that you DON'T deserve it. Hence you can't bring yourself to charge for it.

You're supposed to feel that way. It's perfectly natural.

But start providing the service for free, and everything will change for you. Your vibe will be totally different. You'll begin to see that you absolutely deserve compensation because you are in fact providing good value to people. In fact, you don't even have to ask. If you provide value, people will often offer you money without your having to ask. It's the law of reciprocity.

Your block has nothing to do with money. It only has to do with whether or not you believe you can provide enough value to people that they'd appreciate it. And that's something you can find out right quick.

Money is simply a form of appreciate for services rendered. If you're fussing over how to receive the proper appreciation when you haven't even rendered your service yet, you're crazy nutso.

Go serve people first. The rest will take care of itself. No service, no appreciation, no money.

[jawillie]

Thank you, Steve.

I kinda am doing that right now. I love my job for the first time in my life. Really, really love it. Not only do I love it, but I am told all the time "you're a natural." Parents of clients hug me and thank me. I leave work feeling FULFILLED not depleted. For so many years I was depleted at the end of the work day, I had no idea how it felt to leave feeling better than when you arrived... it's awesome!

I get paid $10/hour for this job I love. I wll just keep serving... keep doing what i do. I have side passions, too, that I pursue on my days off.

I have really been working on the feeling that money stuff will take care of itself... I won't let myself get panicked or swept away in trying to "earn more"....

I am touched you took the time to reply to this. Thanks. I read your book once, but I should take another look. I know I always get something the second or third tme through a useful book. And, I do feel good paying for other people's services..... I have so many authors and teachers and mentors to thank for where I am now, emotionally. just have to keep focus on the value, not the $$$. Thanks!!

[chernobyl]

Maybe you can write a book for adults with disabilities and ask $10 for it? How many copies of it do you think that you can sell?

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by chernobyl

Maybe you can write a book for adults with disabilities and ask $10 for it? How many copies of it do you think that you can sell?

Not sure what you meant by that one. Seems kinda cold to me.

The farm analogy you shared makes sense, but then, I do not think money is "evil," so that wasn't a real issue... I know I wasn't the most clear in my post. I wrote t at a time I was feeling high anxiety over money issues. Since then, I have calmed down a bit.

Thanks for all input, though.

[chernobyl]

Originally Posted by jawillie

Not sure what you meant by that one. Seems kinda cold to me.

Well I was just thinking of a replacement for your $10/h thing.. Except here you would be printing $10 every time you sell a copy, instead of being handed $10 every hour by someone else.

[Federer]

I wonder why are you feeling stuck sometimes? You feel it because you are living in life, putting yourself in center.

Oh My God, Your starting post is a solid dose of good words and interesting savoring. You are complete package to become writer. Appreciating it.

Would you care to listen me? You are millionaire as everyone is here.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by jawillie

I would have a hard time being a Life coach or something, because who am I to say to another what is best when my life is and never will be perfect, either? When I will never be a perfect human who has it all together?

Have you tried applying that logic to everyone else as well? If you did, you would see that no one could ever charge anyone anything ever, since no human being "has it all together" as you put it.

Jawillie, trust me on this, I know exactly what you are talking about! I went through a very rough year last year myself. I got fed up with the monetary system. I opened my eyes wide to all the rampant corruption, greed, abuses of power and economic slavery of those at the top at the expense of the silent majority. I got sick of it. I didn't want to partake in it. At all.

And just like you, I became flat broke. But as someone already pointed out, the belief came before the physical situation. It always does.

So what did I do to turn things around? I investigated my own feelings regarding the state of the World. Is there suffering in the world? Yes. Is there lots of it? Yes.

Do I have to feel sorry for that state of fact? NO!

I cannot stress that last answer enough.

It took me a while to figure out that last one, but today it's coming in loud and clear. I also looked at Maslow's pyramid of needs and I realized that when it comes down to it, I don't have to worry about anything! When you take a look at the bottom level, you realize that those needs will always be covered one way or another. If you run out of money you'll have friends. If you run out of friends you'll have people and organizations you can count on. And if you're a positive person like I know you are, you obviously won't ever have to worry about running out of friends anyway!

So I got rid of the fear of scarcity and switched to an abundance mindset. My situation is gradually improving and each day I feel better than the last! Here's some deep advice: play Monopoly with friends! Sounds silly right? It's not. Play the game and observe everyone's attitudes and reactions and especially your own! You will learn a LOT about the human condition in general and you will also learn about your own beliefs regarding money. Whenever I play Monopoly nowadays I win. Some people say that it's just a game of luck but I don't believe in luck. And what do you know? I always win!

Eventually you'll think outside the Monopoly box and look at the Capitalist system. You'll realize that it's all just a game as well! Sure, some people kill, torture and exploit others in order to acquire more, but that's their problem! Really, the problem is theirs. If someone wants to exploit you, don't let them! You don't have to partake in all that disgusting greedy ego-driven power game. You can just focus on giving, like Steve does, and the Law of Attraction will work for you not against you!

You can also simultaneously work towards deconstructing the system like I am doing. I know making money and working towards getting rid of the monetary system may seem like a paradox. That's because it is! Just remember that paradoxes are only apparent contradictions, not real ones! It's all about understanding them and accepting them into your life when they work for the greater Good!

And that was my 2 Monopoly dollars

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by chernobyl

Well I was just thinking of a replacement for your $10/h thing.. Except here you would be printing $10 every time you sell a copy, instead of being handed $10 every hour by someone else.

Okay, I get the concept. Of course, my audience would not be the perople I serve right now, though, but yes, I have thought of writing a book, just don't know how to start, I guess. Or, I get a fabulous idea that feels really real at 1 am and then when I wake up the next day, poof!, it's gone and feels like a pipedream.

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by Federer

I wonder why are you feeling stuck sometimes? You feel it because you are living in life, putting yourself in center.

Oh My God, Your starting post is a solid dose of good words and interesting savoring. You are complete package to become writer. Appreciating it.

Would you care to listen me? You are millionaire as everyone is here.

Okay, true enough. When the bills come piling in, the collection calls bombard our phone, I admit I get lost in myself. "How will we pay these????" So, then, yes, I look at how to make money before how to add value. That's kind of a human thing, though, right?

I do want to write. And, I do, in my blog, a lot. I get ideas for books but like I said above, they leave me so quickly and feel undoable.

I am listening. I didn't realize people would still be posting to this, so I am forced to listen...

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

And that was my 2 Monopoly dollars

Thanks for your input here. Uplifting and positive, for sure!

My husband and I both left high paying jobs to save our sanity. I left mine in November, he in January. We are just now starting to feel the effects of that lost income (which is tens of thousands of dollars).

Now, I have this belief am trying to turn around: to make a comfortable living, one must sweat and toil and be miserable. It kinda feels true because we are both happy now, but... flat broke.

I realized my first step out of my old career would be just that... a step. So, I know I am not destined to this meager salary. It's getting us by.... so I can let go a little and start using this free time I have (seven days on, seven days off produces lots of time to pursue other passions) to start other endeavors.... just need to get clear on them first.

I love Maslow, and that is so true - it doesn't take as much as we think to have our needs met. But, of course, even as we are meeting those lower needs, I believe us humans are simultaneously seeking self-actualization. Freedom.

Not sure what I am doing next, but not panicking is a good place to start to move forward, so I feel good.

Thanks everyone!

[James81]

I can relate to a lot of the thoughts you've expressed in this thread. I've moved beyond a lot of those thoughts, but I see a lot of similarities in there.

What does money represent to you?

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by james81

i can relate to a lot of the thoughts you've expressed in this thread. I've moved beyond a lot of those thoughts, but i see a lot of similarities in there.

What does money represent to you?

freedom.

[ssandra]

I'd like to add my thoughts on the coaching thing.

I'm a coach. In person a success coach, here in Mexico. No matter what people want to achieve, I can help them get there.

Online, I'm focusing on relationship coaching.

Am I perfect? NO. Nowhere near close to perfection

Can I help people anyway? YES!

Because I don't tell people what to do. I don't even give them advice. I agree with you, everybody already has everything they need inside of them.

But... and this is where I come in... sometimes it takes asking the right questions to get that out.
Could they do it themselves? Sure. And if they can, they won't need me, and more power to them.
Most people however need someone from outside of their world view to ask the right questions. And that's what a coach does.

The certificate that I have doesn't teach me a certain method to "fix" people. It does teach me certain ways of asking effective questions, learning how to listen etc.

Besides that I have some other tools, like NLP techniques, Time Techniques etc that I can use to teach them to release negative old emotions, limiting decisions etc.

I am like you. I don't want to help ONLY rich people. So I'll always have an open policy for those people who cannot afford it. But, I also need to eat, so I have no problem accepting money from those who can afford it.

[juancito]

Regarding this:

Free 12 Week Fitness support group where we will meet in local parks for old-school, boot-camp style workouts twice a week.

Perhaps split it up so you have a free period, and then if they want to continue, they can pay. So, perhaps the first six weeks is free, and then you charge for the remaining six weeks. See what feels right for you. You are providing a lot of value just by creating the group. You are creating accountability, and a lot of what people pay for in personal training, or personal coaching is for accountability (in addition to expertise).

Regardless, this first trial will be a great experience. Good luck!

[James81]

Originally Posted by jawillie

freedom.

Freedom to do what?

[jawillie]

Thank you, Sandra! I do feel aligned with your thoughts as well. I also don't believe in telling others what to do, but, rather, helping them find their own way. Empowerment. Awakening. I know that is what helped me most in the last couple years. Mentors or teachers who had a rigid "step" process didn't work for me at all. But, the ones who ask mind-blowing questions sure did!!

juancito, thanks for that idea. I will keep this one completely free, because to be honest, it is MY accountablility, too! I am working at losing weight and getting fit myself. I find I am more motivated to do it myself when I am motivating others. So, again, I am by no means an "expert" if I have to do it myself. I am sure to call it a support group and not a class. So far, 10 are signed up. It will be a learning experience, for sure, and it is way pushing me out of my comfort zone, I feel I may puke! lol If it's a success, or even if it isn't, it may lead to something else - we will see!

James, I see where you are going with this I think... I need to get more specific. Freedom to travel really tops the list. Since leaving my other career, I have no money to hop on a plane and go somewhere and that is killing me. I meet up with friends once a year, this year it was supposed to be in Tennessee, but I honestly can't see how I can make that happen, financially. We were going to go ziplining, a dream of mine. So, I feel trapped.... work, home... that's it. Barely paying the bills. Tied down. Stuck. A slave to our meager pocket book.

With freedom to travel comes freedom to spend time with far away family members.

See, I wanted to leave my other career because I wanted more TIME. So, great, I DO have more time, but without the money that time isn't as enjoyable.... ugh!!! lol I know I am scared to start my creative endeavors...... it seems so silly to say that.

Grand ideas I have had:
~ Documentary of the MS Bike Tram (I went on this last year and it was amazing and I thought it should be a book, highlighting the amazing riders)
~ A Therapeutic Nature Center for people with developmental and/or physical disabilities... they get so little time with nature and with natural sunlight because it's hard and/or dangerous to get them outside... I envision a huge greenhouse with wheel-chair friendly paths, plants, birds and a pet-therapy cat room.... swings for those with autism, sand..... and sun, sun, sun!!! This would take MAJOR money and fundraising.... The idea feels sooo real to me, but I am terrified.... I did my last research project on EcoTherapy (nature as therapy) and I believe in it so much..... but I feel so powerless.
~ A non-fiction.... a conservative cop falls in love with a dead hippie... lol I wrote three chapters and things got super messy... so I stopped.....

There's more.. they all feel so real until I set out to DO THEM.. then feel impossible....

[jawillie]

yes, I am slightly embarrassed that I am whining about how hard it is to start the things I desire to do instead of getting up and doing them... but I value the input here, it's why I came back. Sometimes we do need people who have been there, done that to inspire us to reach a new level.

[learnllovelaugh]

Wow from your original post I'd say I'm in an almost identical situation/mindset. Recent psych graduate in massive debt yet I still feel unable to be stingy at all. I'm currently resorting to an illegal (yet harmless) source of income and any "real" job I look into disgusts me in one way or another. Jumping through hoops and climbing ladders seems like a waste of my time so I continue to refuse those options.

Originally Posted by jawillie

we are both happy now, but... flat broke.

That sounds a million times better than being rich and miserable. What is worth more than happiness? I've never had less money than I have now, but I've also never felt more energetic, happy, powerful, etc.

Originally Posted by jawillie

I love helping people. I love empowering people. But, I couldn't ask for money to do that.

I completely understand this feeling. I love trading things, but trading something for money usually feels weird. The value of money is completely made up. How weird would it be to try putting a price on something like guidance? Could I even give good guidance under the pressure of knowing that it's being paid for?...I'd love to have the opportunity though. Perhaps I wouldn't charge anything specific. I'd just tell the person to decide how much my help was worth after the fact. No matter what they paid I would still get to feel happy for offerring help to someone.

Originally Posted by jawillie

So.... really, what I want to say... those that need the help the most have the least. Don't they?? What about them? Who helps them, empowers them? They honestly DON'T have the money to pay for expert advise..

I understand your simpathy for the poor, but it seems to me that rich people look just as miserable as poor people. Do you feel equally sympathetic for people who are spending their lives collecting money only to remain unhappy? Wouldn't everyone be better off if they were giving that money to someone who could show them how to be happy? To someone who would put that money to much better use?

When thinking about the heirarchy of needs I realize that it takes money to solve poor people's problems (money buys food, shelter, etc.). Rich people's problems tend to be mental which means they require more intangible solutions. Solutions that you may be able to help them find. That leads me to believe people like you and I are in a better position to help the rich. We can't offer someone much money, but I do feel that we can offer them invaluable guidance. What do you think?

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

What do you think?

Wow, well, first I think it is always great to hear you are not alone in your struggles. I do value my education and though the debt is unfathomable at this point, I am glad I did it.

Second, I do see your point. Thank you.

All I know is that I don't want to chase money as that is unfullfilling to me. I want to live life and see where it takes me. I am trying to lsten to my own quiet intuition more and the screaming of the world less.

I know I have tapped into my own personal purpose... whether I created it or found it, it doesn't matter, because the fact is it just feels right to me. I love to empower and unite people. I can do that at my $10/hour job, I can do that at the employment counselling office I volunteer, I can do that at my support group I am creating - I can do that anywhere I stand. As long as we live our purpose, I don't see how we can go wrong. I will leave financial worry and stress alone, because it's all a lie anyway.

I will use the seven days I have off to actually do the things I dream of doing. Writing that book for instance and starting a fundraiser for the Therapeutic Nature Center. I will need to make some rich friends for that last one.. lol. I am working on my game plan now.

Anyway, I have appreciated this outlet to get my thoughts together and the fire lit in my heart to get at it..... Thanks!

[chernobyl]

Have you tried inventing a product or service and then selling it?