Any truthful persons here?

[timebomb]

I was brought up with everyone telling me that I should tell the truth; and only recently, I learned that everybody lies while insisting that they are telling the truth. Sometimes, what people believe to be the truth isn't really true. I really feel that there is nothing called "the truth." It is just a mirage... what about you?

[nklplnt]

Technically there is no way to know anything for certain except what you are experiencing through your present moment awareness. Everything comes to you through your senses, so you cannot truly be sure what is actually 'out there'.

However, I do believe you should tell the truth, despite the fact that almost everyone who tells you to tell the truth lies constantly. Lying about who you are doesn't change who you are, just how other people perceive you. If you want to make a real, deep connection with someone's true self and your own true self, you have to be totally honest.

[MichaelAnthonyVet]

I don't know, timebomb, I find it hard to believe that you haven't told a lie your entire life. Not even a little white lie? Your Grandmother ever give you an ugly sweater for Christmas and you just told her you loved it anyways? Your wife or girlfriend ever ask you how they looked in a certain dress?

And if you ever have lied, just ask yourself why you lied in that situation or scenario, it's probably the similar to anyone's answer.

But in any case, I would recommend the book "Radical Honesty" by Brand Blanton, it's a great book on the subject matter of being brutally honest with yourself and everyone that you meet, I think you might like the book.

[Cran]

Originally Posted by timebomb

Sometimes, what people believe to be the truth isn't really true.

But I wouldn't call this a lie, either. If you reember something falsely, like the date WWII started, you have no intention to mis-remember it, it is a itake. For a lie, I think the intent to tell willfully something else than the truth/real facts must be there.

Personally, I do lie when I think it useful (a real gain, a way out of a tight spot, but not for bragging) and feel safe of being caught in the act.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by nklplnt

Technically there is no way to know anything for certain
except what you are experiencing through your present moment awareness.
Everything comes to you through your senses,
so you cannot truly be sure what is actually 'out there'.

What all do you consider in senses: beyond temperature, hearing, smelling, seeing, touching, tasting, you have learned to use what other skills?

Originally Posted by nklplnt

If you want to make a real, deep connection with someone's true self and your own true self, you have to be totally honest.

A 'true self' is more conditioning & training:

A child nourished & nurtured in a safe & loving home
will often choose to experience "truth", differently from a child experiencing daily hunger & bombs going off all around him most places in the world like IRAQ.

A child growing in a more personally-free & responsable country will experience the concept of "truth" differently, than a child growing up in a more totalitarian or communist-country. - Tho each will claim their often opposite way-of-life as truth.

A child growing up in a Christian-environment, will experience the concept of truth differently, than a child growing up in an atheist home.

A child growing up knowing... we are (thanks to God's gracious love) created to self-heal, will allow this to continue being her or his truth...- Whereas a child growing up conditioned by traditional, conventional 20th-century beliefs, will trust in their doc's drugs & knives & genetic-brainwashings, for their truth.

A child growing up having learned that you can create your own truthful reality will experience life differently, than a child without these advantages.

A child, or an adult - well, you get it by now.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Cran

For a lie, I think the intent to tell willfully something else than the truth/real facts must be there.

Personally, I do lie when I think it useful
(a real gain, a way out of a tight spot, but not for bragging) and feel safe of being caught in the act.

hm, why? does it say, on the bottom of this thread: "already pinged: http://www.masscasualties.com"

[Cran]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

hm, why? does it say, on the bottom of this thread: "already pinged: http://www.masscasualties.com"

I see that message when I post here (do so as typing), too, but it is certainly not anything I added or even know.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Everyone lies-period. The difference is that some people accept that lying is generally acceptable or even beneficial as opposed to being generally truthful. Letting out a little white lie to not offend someone is not the same as a compulsive liar that manipulates everyone around him/her.

To the op, not to be overly harsh but I'm guessing you have been fairly sheltered until recently if this is just now a revelation to you. The reality is that having integrity and "your word is your honor" are becoming less and less important in many subcultures of society. Treachery and "bending the truth" have become more acceptable. However, generally speaking everyone has been lying since the dawn of time.

[wstein]

I tell the truth most of the time. I used to tell a lot of the truth ‘way’ too often for most people’s taste. Now I tell the truth when asked or its important to me. I say nothing the rest of the time. When it serves a more important goal (as judged by me) I will lie. I find few causes to lie. A small minority of others are basically truth tellers in this way.

I know it’s a shock but most people do not speak to communicate the truth. They speak to be social. They are trying to fit in.

Most people also participate in ‘drama and trauma’ (popular social mode). Drama is greatly diminished if one sticks to the truth. As this is not their goal, they deviate from ‘just’ the truth as far as is required to keep the drama and trauma at a desirable level.

There are a minority of ‘fabricators’ that lie even when the truth would serve them and everyone else better. I know, my little brother is one of these. I cannot say how it serves him but after 40 years he shows no sign of stopping.

To try to make sense of this, look at why people speak from the perspective of their goals, not yours.

[faithsdaddy]

I lie when I think it's appropriate, such as to avoid hurt feeling, protect my privacy, etc. Not to hurt others, or brag, etc.

That seems like an acceptable way/ amount to lie, to me.

[learnllovelaugh]

Originally Posted by timebomb

I was brought up with everyone telling me that I should tell the truth; and only recently, I learned that everybody lies while insisting that they are telling the truth. Sometimes, what people believe to be the truth isn't really true. I really feel that there is nothing called "the truth." It is just a mirage... what about you?

I guess being truthful is impossible. We can't really know the absolute truth. I try my best to be genuine though. That is, always attempting to express what I believe to be true. That's the closest I can be to truthful.

[Lauxa]

I don't believe in The Truth (TM) either, but I think telling the truth means stating things the way you believe them to be instead of making statements that you believe are false.

If you believed the treasure was behind the right door and you told someone it was behind the left door and actually you were mistaken and it was behind the left door, were you lying or telling the truth?

[givejonadollar]

On the Decay of the Art of Lying
by Mark Twain

On The Decay Of The Art Of Lying by Mark Twain

[P83 Wanad]

I don't know, timebomb, I find it hard to believe that you haven't told a lie your entire life. Not even a little white lie?

I don't recall timebomb saying he/she never told a lie

I was brought up with everyone telling me that I should tell the truth; and only recently, I learned that everybody lies while insisting that they are telling the truth. Sometimes, what people believe to be the truth isn't really true. I really feel that there is nothing called "the truth." It is just a mirage... what about you?

I think that's the infantile notion most of us were educated with. "Always tell the truth". As you grow up you realize things are not black or white, grown ups may tell children and teenagers to be truthful while at the same time, they operate within a very wide range of shades of grey.

To top it off, everyone has their own truth. People are choosy when it comes to "the truth". It doesn't matter if you have scientific evidence to prove that this or that is true. Some will still choose to completely override that in favour of what a holy book says, and that's just one of a thousand examples.

Some may say the truth, partially, some may twist it around to fit their purposes... there's really no such thing as THE truth imo, that would imply all people have to 100% agree with it and that's not going to happen

[Divajules]

Yeah, it is pretty much a mirage. Ha, isn't everything?

The "truth" is so freakin' subjective. Not easy to define and it varies.

As Wayne Dyer said, "what is the truth in the morning becomes a lie in the afternoon".

So true, so true.

[James81]

I believe in the idea of Cordial Honesty. The truth need not be brutal in order for it to be true and spoken from the heart. Even the most brutal truths can be delivered warmly and with compassion.

[st33med]

Any truthful persons here?

No.

Originally Posted by timebomb

I was brought up with everyone telling me that I should tell the truth; and only recently, I learned that everybody lies while insisting that they are telling the truth. Sometimes, what people believe to be the truth isn't really true. I really feel that there is nothing called "the truth." It is just a mirage... what about you?

Yes, in my beliefs, there is no 'true' belief system. There are objective truths, but that's about it. There is no such thing as subjective truths.

[maxkhristov]

Be true to yourself. When you're in society, it's a whole different story.

[Slightedge]

is insulting being honest? my mom think sooo.. Like she'll say something about my wife and bla bla bla ..THen she'll say "i'm honest" but if you heard the content of it all(tonality, anger, etc). I guess some people get confuse by the two..


I know the truth hurts right? but why do some like to drill it in some peoples face.. And when you do the same to them, they get defensive? Can I say, ummmm "hypocrite"?

Try this for fun... Someone who is brutally honest to you(you swear they are picking on you when they feel it's just honesty), do the same to them and see how they react.. No I'm not saying to pick a fight but observe, you'll learn something.

[Epiclunatic]

(Damn, every post I make gets so much longer than I expect. o.o Sorry if you see any teal deer running around all of a sudden)

Originally Posted by timebomb

I was brought up with everyone telling me that I should tell the truth; and only recently, I learned that everybody lies while insisting that they are telling the truth. Sometimes, what people believe to be the truth isn't really true. I really feel that there is nothing called "the truth." It is just a mirage... what about you?

I'd say hang on to your own truth. The concept of truth depends wholly on the person, since everyone perceives things differently and has a different level of awareness. Though be careful not to cling to truths for dear life, and always be prepared to change your view. If you don't you just limit yourself.

There's also a lot to be said about integrity though. Most people don't truly have it. If you act out of anger, out of fear, doubt, or out of 'having to', you lack integrity. You can only have it if you act out of your own decision (anger/fear/doubt/ect take away your free will and clog your mind -- they control you). Without integrity, you're not being true to who you are, and since truth depends on the person, your not speaking your truth at all. You're basically living a lie at that moment.

@ SlightEdge for example... Don't take my word for it, I may be not be speaking *your* truth. But I think it'd be fair if I state that your mom has issues about herself, her image, what people think, how she feels about things and so on. Everyone does. Now the thing is that people reflect themselves in others. They're basically talking to a bunch of mirrors. Or, they're always talking about themselves, because they see aspects of themselves. Whether people realise this or not. So when someone says something like "OMG look at her ass! It's huge!", you can be pretty sure that this person has issues with her bottom. Or when people get angry and yell "I don't want you to go abroad! I'll miss you too much!", it's also extremely likely that person wants to go, but can't, gets jealous for it. But that's an awful thing to realise, so their subconscious shifts that to a different reason so they don't have to feel bad about themselves.
People basically only talk about themselves. Whenever, wherever.

If at some point I'd say "I hate you for lying to me", that tells enough about me... It translates into "I'm awful, I lie way too much and I know it".

Now were you to confront your mom with "Don't point at my wife just because you can't stand your own body" when she says your wife gained a lot of weight, of course she'll get angry. She hates herself for it, and she's doing her best to avoid confronting that. When you confront her with it, she'll naturally get angry and force you into feeling guilty for making her look at herself (not in those words though... people wouldn't want to acknowledge it).

She's not having any integrity because, subconsiously, she's angry at herself when she says your wife gained weight. The anger takes control of her actions, and she didn't decide for herself to say it, the anger forced her into it, because oterwise she'd be confronted with her truth, that she feels she's fat. So whenever people talk about others... They're lying. They're a) talking about themselves b) if they're angry, jealous, afraid, ... they're lacking integrity, so aren't true to themselves.

Again, my own truth, I guess. See how it applies in your own life.