Ambition

[AlmostGodess]

I would like to know what do you smart people think about ambitious people. Is it good to be ambitious? Are you ambitious?

On some occasions, while looking around, I found myself noticing that certain people don't like those individuals who seem to want more and are not afraid speaking about what they want. I wonder why for some of us ambition is associated with a negative character feature.

[Lifeisamazing]

I am extremely ambitious. I basically think about how I could achieve something every minute. I think about becoming an expert in fat loss and core training. I dream of being the best in those areas. At the same time, being absolutely the best in something wouldn't be so great if you actually achieved it, would it?

I've also noticed that some people get a little annoyed by it but nothing very noticeable. I don't mind though because it's me. I want to get better every day, I absolutely hate it when I don't learn something new.

[Bing Wu]

@lifeisamazing, you're bound to be ambitious if you have a body that looks like that!

[ZephyrusX]

I don’t think of my self as a very ambitious person, but I think it is the way that I codify ‘ambition’ that makes me think that way. I associate ambition with a life focussed predominantly on career advancement. I am more interested in a balance life that combines my career goals with time spent with my family, personal growth and leisure time. If I reconceptualize my idea to fit in with my goal of a balanced life, then yes, I am a very ambitious person. But my idea of ambition involves taking cat naps in the middle of the afternoon on my days off work.

I don’t associate ambition as I normally codify it as being a negative thing. It is really none of my business if a person is solely concerned about career advancement.

[oscardelben]

I think that perhaps some people are afraid to be ambitious and sometimes, maybe indirectly, they don't accept to see other ambitious people.

It's like when two friends are both fat and one of them goes through a diet, and after a week the one who didn't go through the diet tries to convince the other one to stop. I think the last example is from an old article of Steve but anyway you get the point.

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

But my idea of ambition involves taking cat naps in the middle of the afternoon on my days off work.

I like your definition of ambition

[AlmostGodess]

I wonder if ambition comes from comparing yourself with someone else or if it an innate state for certain people.

Also, sometimes it seems to me there is a certain age when we are most ambitious. After this "ambition age", we focus or conceptualize life acording to other parameters.

Originally Posted by oscardelben

I think that perhaps some people are afraid to be ambitious and sometimes, maybe indirectly, they don't accept to see other ambitious people.

It's like when two friends are both fat and one of them goes through a diet, and after a week the one who didn't go through the diet tries to convince the other one to stop. I think the last example is from an old article of Steve but anyway you get the point.

[tlaskcor]

To me, ambition is a desire to achieve. There are times where I am fully engaged in achieving something, nothing else holds the same priority. But then other times I like to relax into flow, and while I *am* achieveing something, I'm not doing it in a driven, or 'ambitious' way.

I like the pumped feeling being single-focused and driven gives me. I like the accomplishments. But I couldn't live in that feeling consistently.

Drive (ambition) is a good tool.

[Lifeisamazing]

I agree - it's the desire to achieve. So it can be any area really. It can be making your girlfriend happy or it can be earning x amount of money. If you want to achieve, then you're an ambitious person. Unless it's very unbalanced, I cannot see how it could be negative.

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by Alex Wu

@lifeisamazing, you're bound to be ambitious if you have a body that looks like that!

Thanks, I'm not satisfied with it yet. See - ambition.

[Solipsist]

In my experience, those who are ambitious have betrayed the trust of others to satisfy their ambition. Hence, I, myself, see ambitious people as untrustworthy and egocentric.

That's my two cents.

[Lifeisamazing]

To me it seems like a bad belief. So instead of flying with the eagles, you decided to be with the turkeys?

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

In my experience, those who are ambitious have betrayed the trust of others to satisfy their ambition. Hence, I, myself, see ambitious people as untrustworthy and egocentric.

That's my two cents.

I know what you mean, Solipsist. And I would not like to become what you describe. However have all the untrustworthy and egocentric people in your life been ambitious? People who have no ambition tend to betray others as well, don't they?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

I would like to know what do you smart people think about ambitious people. Is it good to be ambitious? Are you ambitious?

No, I am not ambitious, although I was for many years and I still have the seed within me. It is neither good nor bad to be ambitious, however this is a quality that can act as an obstacle to inner growth.

Thich Nhat Hanh translated a lovely and brief sutra called "The Sutra on the Eight Realizations of the Great Beings", I feel moved to share this with you.

The third realization is that the human mind is always searching for possessions and never feels fulfilled. This causes impure actions to ever increase...remember the principle of having few desires. Live a simple life in peace in order to practice the Way, and consider the realization of perfect understanding as your only career.

Only ego can mislead the mind into thinking that the moment you live right now, the only moment you ever live, is anything but perfect, even in the most sublime agony.

[Buptgaoshuai]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

I agree - it's the desire to achieve. So it can be any area really. It can be making your girlfriend happy or it can be earning x amount of money. If you want to achieve, then you're an ambitious person. Unless it's very unbalanced, I cannot see how it could be negative.

When I was very young,I often acted as a very "ambitious" person. But the biggest problem it brings to me is that I did almost everything without patients，even sometime was so selfish .
And now I do every important thing with more patients and without thinking about ambitions or something.I think we can live well by this way, and succuss will comes to u if u you never give up .

[lifetimelearner]

this is the only definition of ambitious that I like -
-having a desire to achieve a particular goal -



it's the stepping on toes and hurting people to reach your goals part that I don't like

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

To me it seems like a bad belief. So instead of flying with the eagles, you decided to be with the turkeys?

Thank you for demonstrating my point, here.

As an ambitious person, you judge a turkey (and, by implication, me) as something that is less than an eagle. This is rather in the nature of ambition. Per wiki,

Ambitious people seek to be the best at what they choose to do for attainment, power, or superiority.

btw, I'm not offended by implication in your remark, (I've been called many things much worse than a turkey). I'm actually more offended that you think eagles are superior to turkeys, just because they can fly.

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

I know what you mean, Solipsist. And I would not like to become what you describe. However have all the untrustworthy and egocentric people in your life been ambitious? People who have no ambition tend to betray others as well, don't they?

No, AG, in my experience, untrustworthy egocentrists are not always ambitious, and yes, ambition-less people can betray trust as well. I only mention untrustworthiness and egocentrism because they appear to me to be fundamental character traits of ambitious people.

For the record, I have no issues with ambitions, per se. I once had an ambition to get a bachelor's degree, and I now have two. My problem is more with those who are characterized by ambition, or "ambitious people."

Also, for the record, I understand and accept that my problem with ambitious people as exactly that--my problem. I do not judge people for being themselves, and I put forth no efforts to change anyone, least of all those who are ambitious, because I know that, being ambitious, they have problems of their own (the CEO of my company, always a highly ambitious person, has had some serious medical complications as a result of the stress he willingly takes on in pursuit of his ambitions). Basically, I have two rules for myself when dealing with ambitious types--to keep out of the way all their pursuits, and to not buy anything from them (this is my trust issue).

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

Thank you for demonstrating my point, here.

As an ambitious person, you judge a turkey (and, by implication, me) as something that is less than an eagle. This is rather in the nature of ambition. Per wiki,

btw, I'm not offended by implication in your remark, (I've been called many things much worse than a turkey). I'm actually more offended that you think eagles are superior to turkeys, just because they can fly.

It was not meant to be offensive, so sorry. It's just a phrase that's commonly used, for me there's not a difference between eagles and turkeys (I perhaps like turkeys even more because they taste great). Turkeys in my view represent people who don't need/want to grow much, they'd rather spend the time having "fun", being in their comfort zone all the time, earn a moderate to low salary and not work hard to achieve something.

The incident with my girlfriend yesterday:
She: "Why do you have to achieve something all the time? Why can't you just have some fun?"

Although she's right that I need to achieve something most of the time, I feel that this is my way of having fun. However, I also watch movies, make nice dinners, organize football/poker nights, sometimes even read comics.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

It was not meant to be offensive, so sorry. It's just a phrase that's commonly used, for me there's not a difference between eagles and turkeys (I perhaps like turkeys even more because they taste great). Turkeys in my view represent people who don't need/want to grow much, they'd rather spend the time having "fun", being in their comfort zone all the time, earn a moderate to low salary and not work hard to achieve something.

Right, well, again, this is judgmental, as you consider those who exhibit those qualities are something less than yourself.

At the same time, there are, no doubt, people as you describe who also harbor judgments against you. Ultimately, these people are no better or worse than you, essentially, just as you are no better or worse than them for being ambitious.

It is the judgment part that is the common characteristic of ambitious people--they spend much of their time judging themselves (which is why they need to "acheive" anything, else they consider themselves something less), which is ultimately projected onto others. It is this aspect of ambitious people that makes them untrustworthy and egocentric, at least to me.

All of which, as I have admitted, is, in itself, a judgment, and so, I recognize it as my own shortcoming. Ambitious people can't, unfortunately, else their ambitious nature itself would be thrown out the window.[/QUOTE]

[taylor]

Ambition is good, sometimes.

The important variable to me is ambition for WHAT?

My role models are all crazy people who went off the deep end in devotion to truth and service to mankind. Gandhi, Buddha, etc. I have similar ambitions.

Most lose their ambition somewhere along the way and get so comfortable they don't do anything. If judgmentalism is the sin of the ambitious, stagnation is the sin of underachievers. That's okay I guess, just seems like a shame. Most of the time making progress on goals is really fun no matter what they are. Channel surfing can't compete. But I have noticed that when I became morally ambitious suddenly everyone's bad behavior became obvious. The projection of your goals on to other people is almost automatic without another goal to be accepting of others.

The people I know who aren't objectively ambitious actually are ambitious if you ask them about it. They want things, they just want them without effort. If you spend a little time asking them about what they want in life they get a little depressed because they know they aren't living in alignment with what they want. But the conditioned response is to distract themselves from this guilt and dissatisfaction, and just block out what they want altogether.

Usually when you focus on a big goal, the rest of your life begins to stagnate. Like choosing to work late over having fun. Now you can get into unbalanced territory, which may be necessary to achieve a really audacious goal like becoming a multi-millionaire. The thing is, if it's something you really want, it's probably worth becoming unbalanced for a while.

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

Right, well, again, this is judgmental, as you consider those who exhibit those qualities are something less than yourself.

Ok, nitpicking pet-peeve rant time.

Non-judgmentalism mean non-thinking, non-evaluation. To have any moral system whatsoever means that yes, some actions are better (more desirable) than others. Yes you can clearly define these actions and where they fall within a moral framework.

So if I were to curse and post negativity it would violate my ethical standards of myself. If I see someone else curse and post negativity I ignore it (as per my ethical standards), but if I want to evaluate its position within my moral framework, am I not allowed? It doesn't mean I have negative feelings towards them whatsoever. But is their behavior not obviously worse from my ethical perspective? And don't we all do this if we give any thought to another's behavior? You did it yourself automatically by claiming that non-judgmentalism is superior to ambition with judgmentalism. That was your ethical perspective.

The value of emotional acceptance has been perverted somehow into the destruction of intellectual ethical positions. Without rational ethical positions it leaves emotions to take control of human behavior. Now under non-judgmentalism I can't say that's bad, because under non-judgmentalism I can't say anything. If I'm allowed to have a brain though, yes primitive pleasure principles are a horrible way to decide what's good vs. bad.

I don't think we need less judgment but more, and more clear and thought out judgment. For example my ethical principles come from attempting to maximize the variable of genuine happiness for myself and others. Its obvious to see that certain actions are superior to others in producing this result.

I can apply this ethical formula to this thread: is ambition good or not? Ambition produces modern technological advancements which have done more to alleviate human suffering than anything (although now we're worried about their side effects). Ambition produces lightworkers, artists, monks, intellectuals, philosophers. It also produces dictators with a fondness for genocide, corrupt CEOs, talentless rappers. The question is almost, "is human action good or not"? The answer is: it depends.

[loopsky]

bit offtopic but(cliche)

marijuana robs you of your ambitions.


edit: seriously tho i think like with most of the things balance/moderation is the key.

[tysonsclarke]

I really don't think any one of us can say we are without ambition. We might not identify ourselves as ambitious people - that doesn't mean we don't have ambition.

The mere fact that there are people arguing their point on here clearly demonstrates a certain level of ambition. You can whittle away at why you are posting, but the truth is, you wouldn't even post without a little bit of ambition. Whether it's to explain yourself better to someone else, or yourself; to win a small argument or whatever - ambition is alive and well in this forum. It's what gets you out of bed.

Same goes for the people wanting to have 'fun'. We all need a bit of fun. We all need a bit of ambition, some of us like both, and some of us like neither - either way, we all have and need both qualities.

Some of us do get annoyed by the "ambitious" people. I know I do. But through my own investigation, I'm pretty much just jealous of them. Not their achievements, I achieve a great deal also - just their energy. Usually ambitious people 'get to' do things...I 'have to'...either way they get done...but one does it with more gusto and spunk.

So I'm a little bit country, your a little bit rock'n'roll, I'm a little bit Eyore, you're a little bit Tigger....potato potahto.

[taylor]

I stayed away from weed for precisely that reason. But meth is great for getting stuff done!

(just kidding. don't do drugs. stay in school.)

[taylor]

There is that "ambitious" type who are almost like non-emotional high energy achievement machines. I've adopted that persona before and I can tell you, it's more fun than being a lazy slob, but it's missing a heart which is all important to happiness. It's also somewhat exhausting. The life of a monk has discipline, heart, rest, it has it all. Everything but sex.

I recommend experimenting with different personalities. Try on the goal achiever on a throw away weekend and see how much stuff you can get done. It's pretty fun. Try on the lazy slob next. It's so nice to be able to relax and have low expectations of yourself. Chill out bro. That's what I'm doing right now on these forums.