How do I tell my Father "No" to a job?

[Andreas]

About two hours ago, my Father walked into my room and told me about an "opportunity" to work at a motorcycle factory doing cleaning work. He's been cleaning there part time, and tonight he must have heard about how college students can make "thousands of dollars" in the summer. He repeated that phrase about 4 times and talked like he does when he wants to give me the illusion of choice but is actually pressuring the hell out of me. I was annoyed that he would consider this job for me, being the opposite of my gifts and inclinations, but I realized he might have thought that he was being helpful. I masked my annoyance saying only, "Thank you for the information."

I know I'm not meant to waste my time doing menial work. I recently purchased a .com, hosting, and started a blog (which will be the subject of another topic); and I want to put in as much time as possible. Right now that's only on the weekends, but this summer I'll have a gold mine of time... The blog is just the first step into what will be a multimedia site, my photography, videography, etc. I have a wide range of interests united under a common theme. Here is my obstacle: my Father has no idea about the blogging revolution or much about new media, and has no idea that I could make a decent living by providing free value to the world.

So, how do I break it to him easy that I have absolutely no interest in pushing a vacuum cleaner this summer and would rather be contributing in a way more suited to my talents? Am I being selfish by denying a "normal" job? I must admit there is some guilt floating around the room, and I think it might have been left by him to stick to me. Ahh, conflict. My only comfort is knowing that I will grow from this experience.

I ask for your wisdom, fellow lightworkers. Thank you for precious time.

[Caveman Joe]

Start by giving us the URL - more traffic could turn into a more convincing argument.

[Savage]

Thinking you need to convince your father or control his reaction is pointless. Simply say no and focus on your own priorities. Allow your father to have his reaction without taking ownership of it yourself. Spend your time working on your own ideas, and allow your father the space to keep pace with you in his own way. Let your actions speak for themselves.

[Antiventurecapital]

Word to the wise.
\



Ask yourself:

1. Am I overestimating the potential market interest in my idea?

2. Am I underestimating the amount of work and time it will take to earn an income from it?

There are something like 70 million registered domains today. So no matter what your hot idea happens to be, there are tens of thousands of other sites already doing it, and they enjoy a head start over you.

Here's my advice, take the job and work on your site after hours. A no brainer job will allow you to use your mind to work on ideas for the site. Carry a digital recorder with you for recording them.

[Cat Dancer]

Originally Posted by Andreas

So, how do I break it to him easy

There are two things to consider, concern for him, and concern for yourself.

For concern for him, sometime years ago I happened to hear some parenting advice (by accident, since I don't have children) and the question was, when there's a big traumatic event on the news, how much should you talk to your children about it? You don't want to make it worse for them by going over something that they may not be paying much attention to, but you also don't want to leave them alone with their fears if they are worrying about it. One piece of advice that stuck with me is that when your child asks a question, that's a general indication that they're ready to hear the answer.

I've never had children to apply this with, but I've found it quite useful for years in my interaction with other adults. When someone asks a question, I take that to mean that they're ready to hear the answer. This has worked very well for me. If you dad asks you if you want the job, this means at some level he is ready to hear a "no" as well as a "yes" (even if he continues to argue with you). Your answer might be something like, "I appreciate your helping me, however I have a different career to pursue".

If your dad never asks, "so what do you think?" or "so do you want the job?" then, for him, it may be best just to do what you did: listen respectfully (respecting him as your dad, even if you don't agree with his opinion) and saying "thank you for the information, I appreciate your help".

Then there's concern for you. If you feel yourself being pulled off center, if you feel you may be giving in to taking this menial job, you perhaps may need to take a stand with him more directly in order to protect your boundaries. In this case recognize that you are speaking for yourself, and it may indeed be painful for him. So be succinct. Like pulling off a bandage, don't draw it out by doing it slowly and uncertainly. Just say, "no, I don't want this job". And as Steve says accept whatever reaction he has as his reaction, belonging to him.

I hope this was helpful,

^_^

Cat

[Andreas]

I am so grateful for you all, your different perspectives and unique wisdoms have helped me very much.

Thank you so much Steve for your advice on my situation. I never expected you would notice my thread. Again, I am so grateful. Thank you for reminding me to never take ownership of another's opinions, even if they're my Father. That's something I'm working on. I will let my actions speak.

Anti, I appreciate your grounded opinion. You put things in perspective, though having a head-start is one thing, being excellent is another. I know I won't be excellent from the beginning, but the point is that I'll be doing things I love, and pursuit of excellence naturally follows doing what you love. Concerning the voice recorder: I've been writing down my ideas all throughout my day these past months. You should see my article ideas outline...

Cat Dancer, thank you for reminding me of something I let go unremembered. My Father would accept a "No", but not in that mood. He was in a mood I call the "Pressure Mood", and I'm very careful with him when he's in that mood. Thank you for giving me the words.


Thank you all again. I intend to share my feelings about the summer with him this weekend. If anyone else has any input, I'm still open to your thoughts.

[hindweb]

Andreas, if you saw some Internet advertising campaign on making money on the Internet by just spending a few hours and buying .com domain, you need to think twice. Unless your blog has superior content generated by you, there won't be much interest. I would advice you to start your internet site side-by-side to another real time job and when you feel you have comfortable income from this, you can dedicate full time on it.

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by hindweb

Andreas, if you saw some Internet advertising campaign on making money on the Internet by just spending a few hours and buying .com domain, you need to think twice. Unless your blog has superior content generated by you, there won't be much interest.

Thank you, Hind. I am quite aware of the "make money quick" schemes that abound on the internet. The purpose I bought my .com for was and is for my own premium content. Please understand, this is not my first website. I designed and maintained my own website for years. It was a wonderful experience, but didn't know how to monetize it back then. In fact, most of the content from the old site will be moved over to to the new site because it still holds its value to this day, and will continue to. True art is timeless.

[Liara Covert]

Hi Andreas,

I admire your tenacity. You sound very driven. That is the kind of personality that will enable you to realize a dream. Previous postings make a lot of sense. Consider ways to support yourself while you devote effort to putting steps in place to realize your passion. I have faith you'll make it happen.

As an aside, your work choices may turn out to be transitory and don't necessarily reveal your true character. I read an inspirational story about a retired rock singer who took a $7.50/ hr job in a mailroom of a New York television studio in order to enable him to be home more often with his infant son. As a singer, he made more money, but he had always been on the road away from family. His friends thought this professional choice was just crazy. People in the mailroom and those who did menial jobs spoke about him behind his back. Yet, he always had a kind word for everyone and went out of his way to help others. He hand delivered mail to senior management and ended up helping out the CEO's secretary on multiple occasions. He delivered bank deposit slips and did other errands to help out when she just didn't have the time. In one case, the CEO was stressed about an evening reception and he wasn't sure if he was organized. When he was picked up by his chauffer that morning, his dry cleaned suit was hanging in the back. This gave the CEO peace of mind. The driver said the "new guy" in the mailroom had heard from the executive assistant that this needed to be done so he called the CEO's wife and organized it. The guy in the mailroom developed a reputation for being in the "right place" at the "right time" and as the result, he was given opportunities. He was promoted to a high-paying television producer which elevated him from the mailroom. It's not where you work but who you meet and how you treat people that matters. As Steve Pavlina has said, your actions will speak for themselves. Other people will react as they see fit. You don't control how people react, but you can control your intentions.

[Brutha]

Are you depended on living in your fathers home and we doesn't want to support you as much as he is at the moment? Or does he want that you take the job and the money for yourself?

[flyingrose]

Hello Andreas,

The main reason I'm posting is to offer you some ways to have some online income coming in before summer arrives. That will be the best way to as Steve suggests "let your actions speak for themselves". It is good that you know what you want and are willing to stay firm in that; however, how you express yourself will affect how challenging doing so will be while still maintaining a relationship with your Father.

Before I get to what you may really want to know I'd like to offer a couple of points about perspective. Remember that your Father and many others have no concept of the potential to generate income online. Telling him you can make money in this manner will be about as believable to him as you telling him you're going to fly to the moon over the summer.

Second, while it is not your interest, "doing menial work" is not necessarily a "waste of time". Cleaning is a positive thing and there are many who will do it with great joy. I choose to be grateful that there are many who love the tasks I do not and I appreciate that they are doing them.

Now, for what you may find most useful. I have collected many resources in a couple of locations that you can use to start generating income quickly. I'll have to explain how you can access each of them so bear with me.

At flyingrose.stumbleupon.com next to the smaller image of me you will see a drop-down box. There are many categories with links to where you can make money. If you get started now you'll have money coming in within the month and possibly sooner.

The one I do not have personal experience with but I believe you may find the most exciting is revver which is filed under Internet-Tools. The way it works is similar to the Google Adsense program where a Web site content owner receives a portion of the revenue generated by clicks on ads. When you upload a video they attach an ad to it. Whenever your video gets shared the ad rides along. When someone clicks on the ad you get a percentage.

The top way to quickly and easily generate an income online is through Google Adsense, also filed under Internet-Tools. You sign up and copy and paste code onto each page of your site. Google's system determines what your pages are about and displays applicable ads. They pay you a percentage of the revenue the ads generate. There are many resources online that explain how to increase income from this source.

The next most common way to make money online is through Affiliate Programs. My personal preference for getting started is cj.com but there are many others. Look for a recent addition filed under Internet-Tools and Affiliate-Programs on Getting Started with Affiliate Programs. Magazines are my number one income producer as the commissions are often 30+% and almost any Web site will have related magazines to offer. There are many resources online that speak to selecting affiliate programs and maximizing income from them. One suggestion I will make is to only recommend what you can truly endorse. Credibility is a very important asset it is best not to compromise. (That is my personal opinion as a confirmed whitelighter. Darklighters may feel otherwise.)

Next look at the entries under blogging, particularly How to Blog - The Manual and those pertaining to Squidoo and Wordpress. Wordpress seems to be the blogging tool of choice; however, there is much to be said for a source of ready-made traffic. Keeping 100% of ad revenue on a site with little traffic may not generate as much as 50% of ad revenue from a Squidoo blog if that site sends the visitors. I have not seen any recent data on income generated from Squidoo but if I come across it a link to it will turn up at flyingrose.stumbleupon.com filed under Squidoo.

I can tell you that if you know what you're doing you can send thousands of visitors to a site with a single blog entry at StumbleUpon (SU) so generating a following at Squidoo or SU can be done quickly and efficiently. The key to everything I've written above is quality content and continuously improving your methods.

Along that line I will also refer you to Designing Web Sites for Higher Sales at Designing Web Sites for Higher Sales. The two most important parts of that thread are the links to sample chapters of Steve Krug's excellent book Don't Make Me Think and an audio interview with Steve in the first post and the Best Web Site Design Notes in the second post.

If you have any questions or would like assistance in any way feel free to contact me directly.

[Andreas]

So much to say. First, responses.

Liara, thank you so much for the inspirational story! Thank you even more for having faith in me. It means so much.

FlyingRose, I asked for a drink of water and you gave me the ocean. You're amazing! I'll respond in more detail below.

---

Feels like it's been longer than 10 days.

As it turns out, there was a miscommunication between him and I. Apparently, he left out some important details. We talked about it again last weekend and he revised his story, saying that the motorcycle factory has a program (the one with "thousands of dollars" potential if you remember) that offers many different kinds of jobs to college students during the Summer, but it's only open to relatives of a full time worker, and my Father only cleans there part-time. He said he doubted I would get in anyway. So why did he tell me...

In retrospect, I think this may be my Father's way of encouraging me to find a good job this summer.

As I've reconsidered my options, I wonder whether or not I should pursue a part-time job at all. Last December, I got some help from a career planner at my college. He ended up giving me some information about graphic design places in my general area. I say general area because I live in Northern Wisconsin where everything is very far apart, and if I decide to get a job at any of the graphic design places he listed, my commute would be between 1.5 and 2 hours a day. And then I ask myself if I even want that.

I feel like this is the part where I ask myself what I really want to do this Summer and not what I think other people want me to do. In fact, I already have a semi-partime job maintaining the website of a local golf course, nothing too fancy but it is a job...

Sometimes doubt my ability to actually create a profitable site in place of having a "normal" job. Then I think of Steve. He only had 1 normal job and then become an entrepreneur. Here's the interesting part. Lately at college, I've been running into entrepreneurs, and they've brought up the subject of entrepreneurship, not me. Isn't that odd? Power of attraction at work, I suppose. Reminds me about the money manifesting I've been doing lately. I should tell you about the dime sometime. Good story. Better yet, I should blog about it.

FlyingRose, thank you for introducing me to your StumbleUpon site. Those tools are excellent, and I have a lot to read. I am all too familiar with the fact that most people don't realize the income potential of the net, and I've heard of Revver, in fact I was an avid Ze Frank watcher, among other netshows... I've compared Revver with Blip.tv, and I've decided to go with the latter. Blip also has an ad program, and I trust them more. As for affiliates, I'll implement that when my site becomes more visible metaphorically speaking. I completely agree that credibility is invaluable. It would go against character to get behind something I didn't personally believe in.

The article on How to Blog looks excellent. Squidoo is different, but looks like it has a lot of good info. I've bookmarked both. In fact, installing Wordpress was one of the first things I did when I got a webserver. Also, the Searchengineforums.com thread has so much great info on it – I'll read every word.

Thank you all again. Your insight is important to me. And Flyingrose, thank you for the offer. I'll let you know if I have any questions.

[John Hill]

I just wrote an article on my site that addresses the issue you have, it's called "success only comes in one flavor". Only you can decide on your path. The link is below.

John

[Andreas]

Thanks for the article, John! I appreciate it. I especially resonated with this part:

In most cases your parents and friends want what’s best for you and you can’t blame them for that. They may even be bitterly disappointed with you when you choose to follow your own star but when they see you arrive at that happy place they will know you have achieved success and so will you.

I dreamt a star once. Since I bought my domain in November, my plan has been to grow the site as I finish college. By the time I leave college, I plan it will be able to support me. And I'm willing to live on Ramen if the universe will let me invest most of my time to building this site... and avoid using up my emotional energy at a nothing job.

However, I've been having trouble visualizing the transition from college to becoming a full-time entrepreneur right out of college. And my thoughts have been on Steve's transition that he mentions in the "Meaning of Life" series. When I get to this part of the story, I question my plan:

Construction Time Again
Soon I moved back to L.A. and got a nothing retail sales job for $6/hour and took a few nothing classes on the side. I’d had quite enough excitement over the past couple years, and I just wanted to enjoy a quiet normal life for a while… spend some time below the radar.

A part of me is saying, "It's stupid to attempt to become an entrepreneur right now. You haven't even held a "real" job for that long. Sure, you worked for your aunt cleaning apartments for a while back when you lived in California, but that doesn't count. Get a real job!"

But then I think about "10 Reasons You Should Never Get A Job":

It’s funny that when people reach a certain age, such as after graduating college, they assume it’s time to go out and get a job. But like many things the masses do, just because everyone does it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. In fact, if you’re reasonably intelligent, getting a job is one of the worst things you can do to support yourself. There are far better ways to make a living than selling yourself into indentured servitude.

Thank you so much again, Steve, for setting me back on track. Yet, I'm experiencing some internal conflict, which always feels sickening. I would feel better if I knew more about how Steve began as an entrepreneur –maybe if I had more faith in my ability to contribute in a way I could live off of.

This is a summary of my current thought process. On one hand, I'm afraid that I won't make it, that no one will care about the content I make. But on the other hand, I think of the possibilities if people do find the content valuable, as I do. I guess I should keep my mind wide open.

In any case, I hope this thread helps other people in similar situations as mine.

[Ellesse]

...On one hand, I'm afraid that I won't make it, that no one will care about the content I make. But on the other hand, I think of the possibilities if people do find the content valuable, as I do. I guess I should keep my mind wide open.

Andreas, I've the same mentality initially when I started my website. I was so obsessed with watching the traffic stats, to see if people are visiting my site, reading my articles long enough etc, that I've lost sight of the main motivation for my site, which is to share with people my experiences and knowledge. This is the reason that got me started and it's also this reason that will keep me going.. I noticed that when I start falling back to my original motivations, I'm no longer that mindful of the low traffic or income. And things started to turn around.

The morale of the story? It's important what you started as a motivation for the website. That is the one that got you started, and will also be the one that keep you going...

All the best in your endeavour and I'm sure you'll succeed

[JHL]

Hi Andreas, you sound very grounded and consciencious about doing the right thing, which I think is awesome. So here then is one more angle for you to apply in considering your approach. Ask yourself - what is my responsibility here? You know what you want from life right now - you want to pursue your dream of your website. But take a moment to consider what life requires from you right now.

If you feel that you can safely do without the job and spend your time working on your website, then go for it! On the other hand if by not working you are creating additional financial strain for others that would be lessened if you did have a summer job, perhaps that something else to consider.

Obviously I dont know the details of your situation. But I just wanted to suggest another useful approach to tackling your conundrum. Asking the question "What are my responsibilities here?" does quite a good job of causing one to be somewhat more objective and hopefuly make a more sober decision.

All the best! I suspect you are going to be very successful in your endeavor.

[Andreas]

Ellesse,
Thank you so much. My reason is similar to yours. I'm here to share as well. More specifically, part of my personal purpose is to "enlighten with art and beauty & to uplift with joy and laughter", but I haven't written on specific values for the site yet. I'm giving it some time to "turn the corner on the road of life" as it were.

Thanks for the insight. I won't lose sight.

JHL,
That's a good way to look at it. I began this thread admittedly disappointed in my Father, but I'm coming to realize how understanding he can be. Last night the family went out to dinner, and we talked a bit about the summer. He said he understands that I have projects that I'm working on, and I got the feeling that he will accept whatever decision I make.

What a relief.


Thanks to everyone for their support! I may be using the Pavlinian model of income generation, but I'm so excited to share something new with the world. Your encouragement means the world to me. Thank you all!

[belugagirl]

I think others have well addresses the issue of whether or not to "go for it" taking into consideration financial need, personal gifts, and higher purpose, but I have one other thing to throw into the mix:

Who says a "menial" job must be a waste, a downer, a soul-killer?

Certainly some are--perhaps different ones for different folks--but there are some unskilled, regular jobs that can be both fun and/or worldview-broadening. In some you might have good cameraderie with co-workers. Others might let you see how "the other half lives" (although it's probably more than half).

There may even be a steady-income, not too brain-draining job you could get for a little steady money that would even be in line with your personal purpose: "to enlighten with art and beauty & to uplift with joy and laughter."
Anything that brings you in contact with people is an opportunity to spread joy and laughter. I have encountered folks in service jobs (especially food service jobs) who have brightened my day with their very energy, vitality, and kindness. If the person who makes your coffee is genial and smiles warmly at you, you instinctively smile back, and smiling makes you feel more joyful.

So taking a "regular" job wouldn't necessarily be selling out or selling yourself short. It may give you ways to express the second part of your personal purpose and still give you enough time and energy to concentrate on the first part with your website.

I do say this from experience. I would never have called food service my calling, but one of my favorite jobs EVER was working in a lunchroom at my college as an undergrad. I took pride in making everyone's sandwich JUST the way they like it and never giving anyone soggy fries. I got to know students and professors alike, not just by name and face, but by how much mayo and pickle or no. I had a smile for everyone and a joke for those who liked them, and all my regulars were bummed to hear when I was about to graduate.

Maybe I liked it so much because I knew I wouldn't be doing it forever, but you have the same advantage.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from focusing on the website if that's your inclination. I just think "regular" jobs can be a great experience, too. I have a career now, but I'm glad for all the little retail, food service, waiting tables, and working in the storage area jobs I've had. They have given me perspective, experience, and a habit of tipping well.

Good luck in whichever course you choose!