Mastering The Dreaded 8-4 WorkDay, Before Escaping It?

[jonas]

I think i have gotten into a situation where Selfdeveloment actually has become toxic for me.

Reading books like "4 hour work week", Steves post "top ten reasons why not to get a job" etc inspires me to not get a 8-4 job and try to fulfill my dreams instead.

Problem is my dreams are kind of fuzzy and diverged.

I want to write. fiction and copywriting.
I want to create websites that sells.
I want to create a band and make music.
etc etc

i stagnate on these goals.
i make slow slow progress, and i pursue maybe to many at the same time.

meanwhle i my selfesteem dimishes beacuse i dont support myself financially.
and it gets even worse because i live with my parents... (i am 28 years old and a student)

I wonder:

The concept of being selfemployed and escaping the 9 to 4 world, is maybe best suited for people who have first mastered this realm? (the 9 to 4 world)

My parents are giving me way to much money, so i dont really "have" to take any responsibility.

Getting a job depresses me, partly because of what i read about in some of the selfhelp books.
so does anyone have any thoughts about this?

should i first master the 9 to 4 workday before trying to escape it?

should i first learn to support myself before i go to the next step?

Should i get a semidepressing parttime job and just "get a grip" and stop complaining?

any thoughts are welcome???

[Zach M]

Great questions. I've been wondering the same things myself, but hadn't pinned them down in words yet. Thanks.

[Zach M]

Originally Posted by jonas

meanwhle i my selfesteem dimishes beacuse i dont support myself financially.
and it gets even worse because i live with my parents... (i am 28 years old and a student)

I think what we both need to do is let go of the perceived stigma of being dependent on family later in life. The idea that just about anyone can become financially self-sufficient by their late 20's/30's is a legacy from more prosperous economic times. I'm sure you'd be doing well if it were the 80's or 90's.

[C33]

I see it the other way around:

Steve's post about not getting a job and the "4 hour work week" served to underline the toxicity of the 9 to 5 work lifestyle.

I always felt this was a toxic world, and reading this information put into words the reason why I always found it kind of " silly " to have a job.When I was a child and looked at the life of people holding jobs,having the so called " normal " life, I always hoped I would never be like them( more than hope: it was about deciding). I guess that my father being a teacher and loving his work made me believe that all jobs were fulfilling ( and you would get that much vacation time!).

Being comfortable can be a double edged sword, because right now, you are not challenged by necessity.

I would say to get a job as an experience, would be a good thing. If you can afford to be financially independent by any other means( my last place of employment made me consider prostitution...) go for it. If you have the possibility to start a business or sell stuff on the streets ( legal of course) go for it! Also, you could consider working for short bursts of time, like in temporary employment, or doing contract work.

How long are you parents willing to take care of you?
If you are not in a hurry to get out of there, maybe you can study something you feel passionate about and see if there is a way to make some money in that field.

[MissGina]

Yeah, I'll be 30 later this year and I still live with my parents and not planing on moving out any time soon. I like what I do at my job, but I feel so overwhelmed right now. I know the 9-5 life isn't for me and all I can do it to try and make small steps away from it everyday.

I think you should NOT get a 9-4 if you can help it. Try to get your business started and work part time if you need to. Once you get sucked into the 9-5 grind, the income and health benefits will make you want to stay for longer than you probably would want.

[Brutha]

Of course you have to actually follow the advice of the book or it's useless.
Tim Ferriss is a huge believer in focus. You don't focus.

[Lucidism]

I've done all sorts of things, from self-employment to normal employment to both at the same time. Currently I do a mix of normal employment, freelancing, and passive income.

Honestly, I think each situation has its pros and cons. I've truly enjoyed some 9-5 work I've had, met some cool people, learned a lot. I don't buy into the whole "9 to 5 work is a sucker bet" idea. This can be true, but it's not universally true. Likewise, some self-employed people actually find that they preferred 9 to 5 work.

Being able to focus is important in achieving success, especially if you run your own business. Maybe you'll find this free short book helpful: :focus

As a student, you may want to work part-time (for some cash and to gain work experience) and finish school. Or you can focus more on starting your web site and finish school. You have a lot of options!

[Mounds]

I never miss a chance to defend 9-5 jobs. There is as much wrong with having a 9-5 job as there is with running a business. Just depends on the person.
Some people like knowing when their spare time is (I sure do!). They like knowing what their job is and being given instructions. Doesn't mean their obedient slaves, that's just what they like! Not everyone is good at organizing work for themselves. Those people might be good candidates for a 9-5 job.
Then theirs people who need a bit more control or a bit more thrill. They want something that's theirs. Those people may be better for running their own gig. They don't mind working extra hours for possibly less pay. As long as it's on their own terms. Both are just FINE.
What really gets to me sometimes is those people who only live on the weekends. You know who they are. They countdown the days on Facebook. They hate their jobs yet never seem to try to improve. They despise the person at the top, as if the more he/she gains, the more they lose (fixed pie theory anyone?). These people are the living dead of society. What if they made a simple change? What if the decided that every single day they would strive to improve? Would their situation stay so dire?
In fact, that's my advice. Always improve and you'll never stagnate. Don't join the living dead (their numbers are legion). Here's a list of stuff you could learn about that couldn't hurt:

-personal finance -communication
-home maintenance -nutrition/cooking
-car maintenance

Remember that the most successful person in the world got to where he/she is by starting with a single step.

-Tim

[jonas]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Of course you have to actually follow the advice of the book or it's useless.
Tim Ferriss is a huge believer in focus. You don't focus.

i could definitely focus more.

My point is,
im not at the level where i`m able to implement the principles
Then reading more about it becomes a self feeding, pipe dream that takes me away from the reality of things. and ultimately tears my selfesteem apart for not fulfilling my goals, or making a living.

i think Jim Rohn said: first you make a living, THEN you make a fortune.

today i have sent in two job applications for a parttime evening job

well, well....

lets see how it goes
meanwhile my website is slowly becoming manifest in the real world, lets hope i make it before i die

[Brutha]

i could definitely focus more.

My point is,
im not at the level where i`m able to implement the principles

Focus is not a side activity.

Then reading more about it becomes a self feeding, pipe dream that takes me away from the reality of things. and ultimately tears my selfesteem apart for not fulfilling my goals, or making a living.

Then how about Tim Ferriss idea of going on an information diet?
Is there a reason why you shouldn't be able to implement that principle?

[jonas]

hehe

ill take the challenge and go on a low information diet from tomorrow and the next 7 days

but...

im still gonna get a parttime job, get some money on my account
and move out from my parents within mid august



if i also get the ebook and website up and running within september
thats not so bad...

[Brutha]

im still gonna get a parttime job, get some money on my account

That's perfectly fine.

if i also get the ebook and website up and running within september

You have three projects.
That's okay. Then focus your energy on those projects.

[jonas]

Originally Posted by Brutha

That's perfectly fine.
You have three projects.
That's okay. Then focus your energy on those projects.

okay, i see where im going wrong here
i have maybe 7 other projects also

or 8 or 9

too many at the same time
too many at the same time

[robcartoons]

Hi Jonas, One thing that I have learned fairly recently is the idea of 'quick wins', basically some sort of goal that you can achieve quickly that will help to boost your self-esteem (and move you towards your goal) If you have a lot of projects, it may be easy to get distracted and spread yourself too thin, rather than focus on two or three projects. We only have so much energy to give to something. Sometimes it's easy to become disheartened if you don't see some sort of result, even a small one.

How about choosing one project that you really like and then setting yourself a small, easily achievable goal for it? After you've started to achieve smaller goals, you can then start tackling bigger ones as your confidence and skills improve. Hope that helps.

[TheTimeisNow]

I agree with you, MissGina. It's hard to leave the suposed security of a 9-to-5 job, but we all know there is no security anymore. Get a job for the benefit it provides for you, whether that be training , learning a new skill, getting contacts, or funding your future business.

[Brutha]

too many at the same time

Yes, according to what Tim Ferriss (of Four Hour Workweek) preaches you won't get successful when you don't focus but spread out your energy over to many projects.

[Julia.Ru]

hi jones,

I've recently read in some article dedicated to self-employment the following thing. The author says it's very important to ask yourself whether you're going to become self-employed to run away from others or to top others? So, what's your purpose of becoming self-employed?

Also,

I want to write. fiction and copywriting.
I want to create websites that sells.
I want to create a band and make music.
etc etc

I bet you don't want this.

[swim]

hi. Having never worked 9-5 this may seem like a funny thread to reply to, but with a job interview next week i'll need to start getting used to it soon anyway. Basically like other people said it can have lots of benefits. And i think theres a reason why this has evolved to become a/the standard. It fills in the week, provides some social outlet and a real amount of money. And in reality its something most of us have to get used to. Whether we move onto self-employment or otherwise. Sort of a catch 22 re money and stuff. Good luck it all anyway. Sorry about no paragraphs, my phones dodgy

[swim]

just to add. I think i know what you mean about self development being toxic. I find it can often kill any impetus i had at starting stuff. Sometimes. That and handy things like one step at a time, somethings better than nothing. And just assuming here but money can be very handy and can help you skip whole aspects / make some quick inroads in yours goals. Just dont ask me what ive been achieving lately. Heh

[newmark]

Originally Posted by jonas

Problem is my dreams are kind of fuzzy and diverged.

I want to write. fiction and copywriting.
I want to create websites that sells.
I want to create a band and make music.
etc etc

If you really want to do these things, do them. But if you stagnate too much and your ideas are fuzzy, then it could be a good idea to work to gain experience of the world. Why not work abroad for a year? Why not take any job in a field that interests you? It will be easier to do the above the more experience you have.

The danger is that you become stuck in a job that is not bad, comfortable etc...but not what you want. A job you really don't like is actually quite good because it has the power of focussing your mind a lot.

If you want to write, but are not clear about what, or why; then read, read and read more, until you understand clearly why these writers [classics & modern] are writing what they are - and how. Read novels, essays, short stories, poetry, drama....

[ellie]

Hmmm I am close to getting a four hour week...not quite there yet. And I have luckily after time, perseverance, studying, observing, listening, found something I really enjoy....and yes passionate about. I was wondering if I truly was passionate about what I was doing, would it dwindle after a few weeks/months? Would my motivation go down?...and the answer is NO, for the first time in my life, I have the dreaded F word FOCUS

And I can tell you I never mastered the 9-5 workday. I was pathetic at it. I did try and mold my persoanlity to fit it, but eventually I came to realise I was a trying to put a square peg in a round hole. As soon as I clicked to the fact, I was able to get focussed.

I can't even tell you exactly how I got here, just a lot of soul searching, a lot of mistakes along the way, that I learnt from and mastered and just foreseeing that there is no other option for me.

I basically said to myself, "this is who I am, this is what I need, and somehow I am going to work it out". I also had to be really relistic with myself as well. I mean sure who doesn't want to be a rockstar, but is that really me? Or is it something I think I want?

For example I had this idea in my mind that I wanted to create this children's animation and make it into a kids show like the wiggles, I had this in my head for years and years, I created a book and character and everything. People loved the idea...and yet I never "really" did anything about it. Why? Because deep down, although nice, it wouldn't of really worked. I would of needed a lot of funding, I would of had to been an exceptional storyteller, I would of had to understand how to put kids shows together, producer/director and I would have had the television studios changing the core value of my idea. This is not what I wanted. So then I went looking for something, where I would have more creative control, where I didn't have to write continually or come up with stories, but still was very creative. I found that thing....and it works really well. Not going to talk about what I do, as that I want to keep separate from this forum. Now when I make lots of money, I can hire other people to help me put that kids show together

On a side note, I found Tim Ferris's book to be so wishy washy. It was all fluff in my opinion. It was a whole lot of boasting and not a lot in-depth information. There's a guy who knows how to market himself well and hype himself up well enough. You just reminded me though that I have to put it up on ebay.

[Drew78]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Yes, according to what Tim Ferriss (of Four Hour Workweek) preaches you won't get successful when you don't focus but spread out your energy over to many projects.

I have a four hour work week. I'm just at the office 40 hours a week. So when I'm not working on my job, I'm doing something that's actually productive like working on writing novels, building websites, etc... and then sometimes I'm on Facebook, or checking out this forum. hehe.

[Martin S]

With regards to working for someone else - look at it from the perspective of selling your services to a single customer who also happens to be your employer. Now this customer also has special powers that he or she often tries to exercise over you - but you are still a service provider with one single customer. Most people never get any more customers in their lifetimes because prospecting for new customers is haaard work (along with learning marketing and all the other stuff that makes up for a successful business) - so they are stuck running their own "service businesses" all their lives with one single customer at any given time.

So there is nothing wrong with having a 9-5 job as long as you don't let your brain succumb to the prison mentality that it entails. Yes there is control. Yes you lack a certain amount of freedom - yet at the same time there are countless ways in which you can benefit from it. You can develop skills that you later can employ to build your own business, you can find problems which your company is struggling with and find a way to solve these problems for them (and possibly selling the solution to a few other companies with the same problems, which can serve as a foundation for your own business). You can learn how to deal with difficult managers and turn their power against them. You can learn all kinds of interesting things within the corporate environment.

Look at it as your own little lab - much like the rest of your life. It's more fun that way. And remember that in the end we are all self-employed regardless of whether we are working directly for somebody else or serving a herd of customers with whatever we most love to produce.