Your life is a lie and it's all your fault. Be selfish and unethical instead.

[Karanime]

It's okay. You can stop looking for answers now.

This thread will tell you all you need to know.


All that is is is.
When you really break it down, all that exists is the material world. Our mental constructs don’t actually exist. The only reason to keep a construct is to perpetuate said construct.

Social rules cease to exist when the minds that follow them cease to exist. But a painting can be enjoyed without rules, as can a piece of music, or a delicious piece of food.

There is no need to share the abstract concepts that led to the creation of these things. The objects are enough.

Responsibility/Omnipotence
There are an infinite number of possibilities. The one you’re experiencing now is a result of what’s most important to you. Since you can change this, and anything else you feel like changing, you have no right to complain.

Every possibility involves a choice. If something isn’t worth the effort, you’ve chosen not to expend the effort. If it is worth it, you’ve chosen to get it, at the expense of whatever is worth giving up. There’s nothing else you “should have” done.

All that is is is. There is no should.

Personal Integrity
You are at your own mercy. Every man lives for himself, and is not entitled to the fruits of others’ talents and labor. Since man can do anything he pleases, he’s also able to be true to himself, always. In which case, this code obliges man to do whatever he pleases. If someone else has a problem with it, he is obliged to do what is necessary for his own pleasure.

Personal Integrity is the pledge to hold yourself above all else. Whether that means subjective values like success, wealth, and likability, or blood-line, society, and conventionalism. There is nothing more precious than self.

Vitality of Man
This came from a dream I once had, and the idea has stuck with me ever since. This is all that matters.

The Vitality of Man is his ability to control whatever he pleases, and his obligation to not choose good or evil, nor a purpose to devote himself to exclusively. It’s mankind’s duty to explore and create, to push the envelope and go further than his brethren have in the past.

If you look at the scope of the universe, and how pathetically tiny we are, it becomes more and more evident that this tiny world needs to expand. To become ever greater, in order to have meaning. Even if that means leaving others behind in the dust. We can’t afford to wait for them. We can’t afford to slow down.

So away with stupid ethics, away with sluggish morality. What we can do, we should do, and we can do anything. We are to progress. Forward motion.

It’s personal development on a global, even universal level.

Going forward, and getting there fast is the name of the game. And to continue doing it. There is no end. There is always better.

All that is is what we can see. So let’s create something tangible. Maybe many somethings. Because we can. If there are problems, we can fix them, because we started them. We can’t do this for anyone else, just for ourselves, for our own pleasure. Because it feels great to progress, to learn/create/experience/do new things. Because we have to. Because there’s nothing else and nothing better for us to do.

All we must do is survive, enjoy, and progress. Because we can.


So, basically:

// Society and its rules, morals and ethics are useless. Right and wrong, good and evil are a lie.

// We are able to do anything, so change is our responsibility, and all that exists only does so because we let it.

// So if we're unsatisfied, it is our responsibility to satisfy ourselves, at the expense of all else, because there are no ethics, and it's no big deal.

// And what better satisfaction than the progression of the human race?

Discuss.

/<3

[Brutha]

When you really break it down, all that exists is the material world. Our mental constructs don’t actually exist. The only reason to keep a construct is to perpetuate said construct.

In the end there's no meaning in the material world. Humans however need meaning and all those mental things to become happy and fulfilled.

[Plato]

You're feisty!

Can lie's exist if mental constructs aren't real?

Wait a second, do you even exist?

[Andrew Gubb]

Rules are useless, morality comes from the heart or it is nothing.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Rules are useless, morality comes from the heart or it is nothing.

Yeah, from the heart.

[SatvikBeri]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Rules are useless, morality comes from the heart or it is nothing.

External rules, sure. But it's useful to develop your own set of rules. Being consciously aware of your values can make it much easier to live in harmony with yourself.

Based on your other posts I think you probably agree, I just wanted to caution against the statement "rules are useless" in general.

[IamAlsoThat]

Alright let's all kill karanime and sell her organs for money. Im unsatisified with my finances but I can change that easily. Also I'll steal all her money. Actually screw you guys I get to kill her first

[Plato]

Intelligence is the only absolute rule. Obviously, it wouldn't be intelligent to break a lot of the social rules.

[IamAlsoThat]

"don't be a douchebag"

what you resist persists bag of douches

[Plato]

Maybe you're right. See how it works out.

[IamAlsoThat]

we speak like.
three word post.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by SatvikBeri

External rules, sure. But it's useful to develop your own set of rules. Being consciously aware of your values can make it much easier to live in harmony with yourself.

Based on your other posts I think you probably agree, I just wanted to caution against the statement "rules are useless" in general.

Yeah, though I prefer spontaneous action to being rigid. Values are good as reminders, as compasses, but not good for controlling yourself with.

A.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by IamAlsoThat

Alright let's all kill karanime and sell her organs for money. Im unsatisified with my finances but I can change that easily. Also I'll steal all her money. Actually screw you guys I get to kill her first

There is one rule: cause and effect. It is ubiquitous and inescapable.

Go ahead, chop her up, sell the parts for money. You'll live as a marked man. Even if there were no legal system other people would move against you and being that we're social animals that's a terrible consequence indeed. If you can accept it there's nothing to stop you but that's always the question: do you accept the outcome of your choices?

Of the great travesties which have occurred in history most are the result of people who would not take responsibility. The funny thing is that the rules gave them the freedom to fix the blame on someone else. "I was just following orders!"

Rules as limitations do not exist. Rules as a set of personal standards for furthering excellence are helpful but only when recognized as artificial constructs and not for the core self coming into being.

[illus]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Rules are useless, morality comes from the heart or it is nothing.

The word morality should be banned from the English vocabulary. It is the greatest obstacle to freedom.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by illus

The word morality should be banned from the English vocabulary. It is the greatest obstacle to freedom.

Not morality per se but morality without regard for bettering the human condition. Sam Harris gave an excellent talk on the subject: YouTube - Sam Harris: Science can answer moral questions

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

There is one rule: cause and effect. It is ubiquitous and inescapable.

Go ahead, chop her up, sell the parts for money. You'll live as a marked man. Even if there were no legal system other people would move against you and being that we're social animals that's a terrible consequence indeed. If you can accept it there's nothing to stop you but that's always the question: do you accept the outcome of your choices?

Of the great travesties which have occurred in history most are the result of people who would not take responsibility. The funny thing is that the rules gave them the freedom to fix the blame on someone else. "I was just following orders!"

Rules as limitations do not exist. Rules as a set of personal standards for furthering excellence are helpful but only when recognized as artificial constructs and not for the core self coming into being.

I love you.

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by Brutha

In the end there's no meaning in the material world. Humans however need meaning and all those mental things to become happy and fulfilled.

That's what I said. To perpetuate said construct. :P

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by fishbelowtheice

Karanime, what is the source of all that you said here? It is pretty amazing and succinct. Loved it!

Lots and lots of time locked up in my room, thinking about what is and what isn't.

taking responsiblity and blame/fault are two distinct point of views

blame/fault are a morality conversation.
taking responsiblity is not

Fault without morality is responsibility.

"Omnipotence - You can do anything" <---- unless you can't.

Ahh, good thing we're omnipotent then, huh?

"Vitality of Man - If you can, you should". <---says who!

Says anything that could ever possibly matter. If nothing matters, then meaning must be relative, and doing more has relatively more meaning than doing less.

Even if less action is taken, more results > less results.

/<3

[IamAlsoThat]

There is one rule: cause and effect. It is ubiquitous and inescapable.

Go ahead, chop her up, sell the parts for money. You'll live as a marked man. Even if there were no legal system other people would move against you and being that we're social animals that's a terrible consequence indeed. If you can accept it there's nothing to stop you but that's always the question: do you accept the outcome of your choices?

Of the great travesties which have occurred in history most are the result of people who would not take responsibility. The funny thing is that the rules gave them the freedom to fix the blame on someone else. "I was just following orders!"

Rules as limitations do not exist. Rules as a set of personal standards for furthering excellence are helpful but only when recognized as artificial constructs and not for the core self coming into being.

A) You presume that people are getting caught for the wrong doing they committed.. If someone wanted to kill another for organ harvesting and could easily get away with it, for example by using stealth and killing. You know that only 20% of murder cases are solved completely.

B) You presume that the Legal code exists if other people had no morals. What would the purpose of the Legal code if there was no morals.

C) There will always be people who will be able to commit crimes without being caught by either the "justice system" or "other" humans. Also without morals, why would other people care if I killed someone... That is only part of the morals of an individual. For instance, some people are utterly disgusted that someone molested a child others are not, this is entirely based on the moral code of the individual.

Even in this argument, we are said we are omnipotent. (of course omnipotence as a concept is a fallacious) Person A an omnipotent being believes they can kill someone and harvest their body and steal their money, without getting caught.
Person B believes they can catch any person who steals money from others.
... Person A cannot be caught... Yet person B can catch anyone...

[illus]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

Not morality per se but morality without regard for bettering the human condition

Oh really I didn't know that human condition needed bettering

[illus]

Originally Posted by fishbelowtheice

It is a plausable assertion, if one watches CNN or reads the newspaper for 5 days in a row, that the human condition needs bettering.

You are trapped in the illusion of good and evil, beautiful and ugly, right and wrong etc

I can watch CNN and not feel a thing

[blossom]

Are you blind? Psychopathic perhaps?

Originally Posted by illus

Oh really I didn't know that human condition needed bettering

[illus]

Originally Posted by blossom

Are you blind? Psychopathic perhaps?

No, I bet you turn a blind eye when you watch the news

[Cado]

Originally Posted by IamAlsoThat

A) You presume that people are getting caught for the wrong doing they committed.. If someone wanted to kill another for organ harvesting and could easily get away with it, for example by using stealth and killing. You know that only 20% of murder cases are solved completely.

No I don't, I just didn't delve into the other outcomes. The main point still stands: can you accept the consequences of your choice?

In this case you have to work your ass off to avoid getting caught unless you make it a point to pick low-profile targets, and then there's the potential psychological toll. The reason I kept it simple is because there are so many layers, so many potentialities, that delving into all of them would require far more time than I'll devote to it here.

B) You presume that the Legal code exists if other people had no morals. What would the purpose of the Legal code if there was no morals.

I said that in absence of a legal code people would still turn against a known murderer. That's our survival instincts in action. I'm also presenting this as a potentiality, IE the possibility of getting caught is always there and thus it plays into the psychology of the action. It's really easy to become paranoid about getting caught even if chances are nil that it will ever happen.

C) There will always be people who will be able to commit crimes without being caught by either the "justice system" or "other" humans.

And? Actions still have consequences. Whether they can be measured or not is irrelevant.

Even in this argument, we are said we are omnipotent. (of course omnipotence as a concept is a fallacious) Person A an omnipotent being believes they can kill someone and harvest their body and steal their money, without getting caught.
Person B believes they can catch any person who steals money from others.
... Person A cannot be caught... Yet person B can catch anyone...

...Huh?

[Cado]

Originally Posted by illus

Oh really I didn't know that human condition needed bettering

Says a poster on a personal development website.

[blossom]

I don't watch the news.

Originally Posted by illus

No, I bet you turn a blind eye when you watch the news

[illus]

Originally Posted by illustro cado

says a poster on a personal development website.

[illus]

Originally Posted by blossom

I don't watch the news.

Why not

[blossom]

We covered this in another thread. I don't feel like repeating my reasons...and it isn't relevant to this thread

[illus]

oki