What About the Stupid People?

[eys]

This website's tagline is "Personal Development for Smart People." A good tagline, because it asks the reader to use their intelligence when making decisions, instead of swallowing the "false-positive" side of personal development, where people try to deceive themselves and lower their awareness. I'm all for that. My question is:

What about people who aren't smart? Are they doomed to remain on a relatively low level of awareness? Is it someone's responsibility to take care of them? Is it their fault that they have (for example) poor impulse control, that they can't imagine the consequences of their actions, can't weigh probabilistic alternatives, can't read past a fourth grade level, can't do basic financial planning, and so on?

Of course, intelligence (or lack thereof) doesn't make anyone successful or happy. But how could you, I, Steve or anyone help someone whose lack of intelligence is holding them back in some way?

This is a difficult question for me to pose because, as far as I know, there are almost no public figures with below-average intelligence. Think about it. Jessica and Homer Simpson are the only two I can think of off the top of my head, and one of them doesn't even exist. Miss South Carolina (?) is another. Maybe some sports stars...? But when it comes to successful writers, bloggers, movie directors, politicians, Nobel laureates, artists, architects, songwriters, and so on...even A-list actors, I'd guess, are (somewhat) above average in intelligence.

Furthermore, the people who aren't so smart, who get into the spotlight, tend to be famous for something else (disregarding people like Paris Hilton). This creates the illusion that, for every weakness, there's a corresponding (and equally intense) strength, and vice versa. Of course, there are other things which might be equally important as intelligence (social ability, charisma, attractiveness, hand-eye coordination, musical ability etc). But how is someone with, say, lower-than-average math and reading ability, but a knack with music, or social shrewdness, etc., going to learn about personal development when so much noise exists?

If someone wants to argue that there are no stupid people, that's fine, but then what does the byline of this website mean? I don't think it means "Personal development for everybody."

[spirit4711]

There's a difference between smart people and intelligent people.

Whatever your intelligence level, you can behave smart or not. Personal development is not dependent on being intelligent, but on being smart.

[blossom]

agreed. I take it to mean that anyone who is here, and they are interested in developing and improving their person, is smart...since it is a smart thing to do. But smart people can be really dumb too, and some dumb people can be really smart in certain ways.

It is different to intelligence though. And everybody has their own special capacity for stupidity...that's for sure!

[RagsToRiches]

Originally Posted by eys

.

You can develop intelligence/smartness/whatever mental charactoristic you want...

This is undisputable as far as I'm concerned - I've seen enough people do it (both ways)... it doesn't happen over night...

The brain behaves in the way you train it.

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by eys

What about people who aren't smart?

They aren't smart because they were created that way by public education. Read Alvin Toffler's 3rd Wave.

In reality, people are just blank slates for the will of those who withold the rewards (i.e. money) they want.

[Haigha]

Don't feel sorry for stupid people. They run the world. If you doubt that, look at the leaders the stupid have elected or whom they tolerate. Look at the sick and sad state of a world in which a stupid majority believes that war (the ultimate horror man can inflict on man) is a real nice alternative to peace and negotiation. Look at how, in the wonderful West, the greedy bunglers who screwed up the economy have been handed taxpayers money so they can greedily bungle again. It isn't the meek that are inheriting the earth; it's the stupid.

[bunnyman]

Originally Posted by eys

This website's tagline is "Personal Development for Smart People." A good tagline, because it asks the reader to use their intelligence ...

Right -- use your intelligence. That's all it means.

What about people who aren't smart?

The world is not divided into the smart and the not-smart. Everybody is different, in terms of their level of knowledge, their beliefs, and their attitude. But, everybody can always improve. You never get to the top. Nobody has the ultimate level of smartness.

But how could you, I, Steve or anyone help someone whose lack of intelligence is holding them back in some way?

We can teach, and lead by example.

If someone wants to argue that there are no stupid people, that's fine, but then what does the byline of this website mean? I don't think it means "Personal development for everybody."

I suspect that you define intelligence in a narrow way, i.e. "good at doing math problems" or "knows many facts" or "creatively solves problems." Then, you decide how "smart" somebody is by these criteria. I think this is a poor way of looking at the world. I forgot most of what I learned about math in school, and forgot most of those facts -- so I got dumb after I graduated? (Some people would say yes!) I think I did not get more dumberer, I still have the same brain in my head as I used to have.

I am having trouble finding where Steve explained the title, but if I remember correctly, he wanted to be different from many of the "personal development" authors/speakers who tell people "you can do it!" and get people excited, without ever explaining how to do it. Steve wants to actually get people thinking about their lives, instead of just feeling good about it.

This website is for people who are willing to think.

[OlderWiser]

Originally Posted by eys

If someone wants to argue that there are no stupid people, that's fine, but then what does the byline of this website mean?

Uhm, I always thought it was a play on the "Such and Such for Dummies" line of books. That Steve wanted to address people who did not consider themselves to be stupid or "a dummy", and that he wasn't going to "dumb it down".

*shrug* That's my take on it.

[rei]

i think the opposite of smart isn't stupid, it's dumb.

there's intelligent people who do lots of dumb things. there's less cognitively strong individuals who do lots of smart things.

i know a few very intelligent people who don't wear seat belts when they drive. i know intelligent people who have used drugs to excess. i know intelligent folks who don't even try to use any common sense.

i also think personal development can happen without seeking out a PD guru of sorts, it can be a natural side effect of living one's life or experiencing adversity.

and if an individual prefers to live on autopilot, well, i don't have the audacity to push my preference on that person, enriching though my preference seems to be for me. i agree with the poster who mentioned leading by example. when the student is ready...

(note: my choice to not capitalize my communication here is unrelated to my intelligence...in case you were wondering.)

[rei]

i just thought of something to add.

it would depend on which level you consider "unintelligent" - but, the world of disability is often very much about empowerment, self-advocacy, creative thinking, and positive growth.

so, persons with intellectual disabilities are very likely to be exposed to PD concepts through those groups that work with them. (i am interning with an organization that does exactly that.)

if you're talking those who are just average and a little below average in terms of cognitive ability, but who wouldn't qualify for a disability, then i'm not sure there is a reason to assume they would feel left out anyway... i think, if you want something, you create the circumstances to experience it - whether you're consciously aware of doing so, or not. so individuals who are wanting to grow will attract that opportunity.

if it ain't broke, perhaps...

[eys]

Hey folks,

Thanks for your responses. I don't think I made myself exactly clear in that first post, I hope I can explain what I meant a bit more clearly.

if you're talking those who are just average and a little below average in terms of cognitive ability, but who wouldn't qualify for a disability, then i'm not sure there is a reason to assume they would feel left out anyway... i think, if you want something, you create the circumstances to experience it - whether you're consciously aware of doing so, or not. so individuals who are wanting to grow will attract that opportunity.

I'd agree that everyone can grow in some way. Here's what I was trying to describe, albeit not very successfully:

John or Jane Doe is stuck in a dead-end job. S/he is not very bright, but has some talent or other, let's say painting for the sake of argument. If you want/need to be a painter, there are certain actions you can take to realize this goal: you might, for example, go to art gallery openings, browse the internet for cities with vibrant art scenes and low cost of living, start your own website featuring your work, ask other artists for their advice, and so on.

All else being equal, it's going to be easier for an intelligent person to figure out what to do than it will be for John or Jane Doe. Not because the intelligent person is "better" or anything like that, but they're more likely to do thorough research, to understand and see through marketing techniques, to evaluate and weigh different options.

I'm not talking about absolutes. Not every intelligent person is going to do this, but they'll be more likely to see through things which a less intelligent person will be fooled by. Also, smart people tend to have smart friends, adding another resource.

Meanwhile, John or Jane Doe might end up, for example, going to a for-profit, private art college which they can't afford, getting into five, even six figures of debt, and actually deferring her dream even longer, since these colleges don't do anything for your career and won't help the students succeed professionally. The person might also fall prey to some other, slightly less nefarious schemes ("bring unlimited traffic to your website for $105.95!").

Or, they might stumble across this website, look at a few articles, have everything go way over their head, get frustrated and leave. At least the "You can do it!!!!!" people make them feel good and are at their level of understanding. I don't think Steve is a very difficult writer to understand, but he might be for some people.

Which brings me back to my original question: how does one help somebody who has a harder time weighing the consequences of their actions, understanding abstract concepts, making distinctions between similar concepts, and so on?

The world is not divided into the smart and the not-smart. Everybody is different, in terms of their level of knowledge, their beliefs, and their attitude. But, everybody can always improve. You never get to the top. Nobody has the ultimate level of smartness.

No, but people vary in their ability. For example, I will never be heavy/strong/muscular enough to be an NFL quarterback. I could work out, train very hard, and develop myself to being a pretty good amateur quarterback. But no amount of hard work will allow me to compete on a level playing field with professional football players of the opposite sex. Of course I can always improve, but I can never improve up to that level.

By the same token, someone with a high double-digit IQ might be able to realize a potential far beyond what others thought possible. I'd be glad to see this happen. I just would like to know how to realize this person's latent potential, if their potential isn't intellectual, and if they find the normal stuff of human interaction--reading, appreciating art, discussion, and so on--difficult.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by eys

If someone wants to argue that there are no stupid people, that's fine, but then what does the byline of this website mean? I don't think it means "Personal development for everybody."

It's not "Personal Development for Everybody".

It's "Personal Development for Anybody".

[blossom]

Originally Posted by OlderWiser

Uhm, I always thought it was a play on the "Such and Such for Dummies" line of books. That Steve wanted to address people who did not consider themselves to be stupid or "a dummy", and that he wasn't going to "dumb it down".

*shrug* That's my take on it.

Actually that's what I initially thought as well...that it was a piss take of those books.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by eys

Which brings me back to my original question: how does one help somebody who has a harder time weighing the consequences of their actions, understanding abstract concepts, making distinctions between similar concepts, and so on?

Why would you want that?

I just would like to know how to realize this person's latent potential, if their potential isn't intellectual, and if they find the normal stuff of human interaction--reading, appreciating art, discussion, and so on--difficult.

That is not up to you but to the person himself. It's up to you to realize your own potential. Or not.

What's in it for you?

[shasah]

Someone who inspired me very much was someone who was not very intelligent. My grandmother had a fourth grade education. She worked all her life and married early, had kids etc. The reason she inspired me is twofold. She did not sit out life. She bowled until she was 85 years old. She picked up a paint brush at the age of 90 and made the most beautiful paintings! We had the pleasure of seeing her paintings for two more years when she unfortunately passed away. But she taught me that you can do anything you set your mind to and age and intelligence don't necessarily mean that a person can't do things.

She had never heard of personal development. She just didn't want to give up on life and decided to try new things. Admittedly, if she would have picked up that paint brush earlier in life, she probably would have been rich. She had that much talent.

Just because someone is less learned or less intelligent does not mean that they don't have anything to teach us. Just a thought.

[roxyruby]

I've never really liked the tagline "personal development for smart people"

You know I might be wrong, but to me it sounds like "We are better than you" to outsiders, like "I'm smart, I'm superior for reading this blog and reading his book" and it makes me feel sort of guilty I don't want to associate with a message that I think I'm better than someone else

[Tanja]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

I've never really liked the tagline "personal development for smart people"

You know I might be wrong, but to me it sounds like "We are better than you" to outsiders, like "I'm smart, I'm superior for reading this blog and reading his book" and it makes me feel sort of guilty I don't want to associate with a message that I think I'm better than someone else

But if they feel the people reading this are 'better', aren't they just projecting their own beliefs/insecurities?

I don't know..I've never had that feeling...
Like some people have already said, I also thought it was a word play about those ''Books for dummies''.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

I've never really liked the tagline "personal development for smart people"

You know I might be wrong, but to me it sounds like "We are better than you" to outsiders, like "I'm smart, I'm superior for reading this blog and reading his book" and it makes me feel sort of guilty I don't want to associate with a message that I think I'm better than someone else

And yet, you do. How's that for an opportunity for personal growth!

[Plato]

I think that by associating with Steve's writings I end up feeling guilty for not being good enough. (Which is why I don't any more)

Take this from his book:

"I can discuss your life with you, I can empathize with your situation, and I can do my best to help you. But afterwards I can go home to my own life and leave yours behind. You never have that luxury."

It's a horrible frame to take as the person receiving that message.

His life isn't just good. It's luxury. I can never have that luxury. My situation is horrible and to be pitied. And even though powerful (life of luxury) people like Steve try to help me, it doesn't actually help.

I get what the message is supposed to be: it's about being at cause. But a person who isn't currently at cause is going to go "waaaaaaaaaa" inside their head reading that. Speaking from experience.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Plato

I think that by associating with Steve's writings I end up feeling guilty for not being good enough. (Which is why I don't any more)

Take this from his book:

"I can discuss your life with you, I can empathize with your situation, and I can do my best to help you. But afterwards I can go home to my own life and leave yours behind. You never have that luxury."

It's a horrible frame to take as the person receiving that message.

His life isn't just good. It's luxury. I can never have that luxury. My situation is horrible and to be pitied. And even though powerful (life of luxury) people like Steve try to help me, it doesn't actually help.

I get what the message is supposed to be: it's about being at cause. But a person who isn't currently at cause is going to go "waaaaaaaaaa" inside their head reading that. Speaking from experience.

i didn't read "luxury" that way. i thought it was more in the sense of, 'you don't have the luxury of setting your own life down, because you're living it.' i didn't see any finance/power stuff there.

[Plato]

The frame is not the grammatical meaning of the words.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Plato

The frame is not the grammatical meaning of the words.

i get that, Plato. i was just saying the words themselves didn't call up the same frame for me. but, i can understand how that other frame might come up for folks. just wasn't how i felt, as the person receiving that message. i projected something different there, which led to a different interpretation.

[shasah]

Plato, I am interested in the part you said about being at cause. Many others talk about it and I understand it in an intellectual sense. I am, however, looking for more information. Any recommendations as to where I can find more info?

Angela, I've also seen you post about being at cause quite a bit. Care to share also?

Thanks

[Captain Drywall]

Stupid people have pro sports. and sports talk radio. This makes em happy.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Plato

I get what the message is supposed to be: it's about being at cause. But a person who isn't currently at cause is going to go "waaaaaaaaaa" inside their head reading that. Speaking from experience.

I think if that's what someone projects it's exactly what they need to hear. Personal development isn't always easy and you don't necessarily reach somebody by going soft on them. Sometimes it hurts like hell, sure, but that's good-it shows you exactly what you need to deal with.

People who aren't ready to stop playing the victim will walk away going, "wa wa, poor me, wa wa" just like they always do, but the ones who are ready to do something will get a wake up call.

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by Angela

And yet, you do. How's that for an opportunity for personal growth!

Oh so you're God and a Mind Reader now? What makes you believe I want to associate with a message that I'm better than everyone else?

[Plato]

Originally Posted by shasah

Plato, I am interested in the part you said about being at cause. Many others talk about it and I understand it in an intellectual sense. I am, however, looking for more information. Any recommendations as to where I can find more info?

Angela, I've also seen you post about being at cause quite a bit. Care to share also?

Thanks

Hey shasah.

I'm probably not the best person to ask. I started this interesting thread a few hours ago, however.
Taking Responsibility

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

What makes you believe I want to associate with a message that I'm better than everyone else?

What if you are better than everyone else?

[Plato]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

What if you are better than everyone else?

She's not, don't worry.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

Oh so you're God and a Mind Reader now? What makes you believe I want to associate with a message that I'm better than everyone else?

No, I believe you when you say you DON'T want to associate with a message that you're better than everyone else.

What I'm saying is that even though you don't want to do that, you still participate here in the forums, an action that makes you feel guilty because it associates you with the message that you're better than everyone else.

So your conscious desire is apparently in conflict with your unconscious commitment, for some reason or other. My point is that when you say you want one thing, but you're doing another, there is a brilliant opportunity for personal growth -- for being really effective and letting go of things that are stopping you, even in areas other than the obvious -- available out of examining that apparent conflict.

It's a good thing.